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OFFICIAL "GOTTA WATCH THE TAPE" thread: coaches film on 49ers sacks (RAVENS GAME

Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Smith getting blame for ineffective double teamed blocking, with beyond a reasonable expectation of pocket movements while looking down field. Holy sh*t, the Zone!

I love it!

Is there any other QB held to these standards or scrutinized THIS closely by their own fans?

At least, despite Tebow's "faults," his fans get behind him.

And you guys find everything else to blame but him.

"Oh the grass was too long on that field"

There are other elements that can't be measured with QB pressure. Teams that face a good QB play coverage more often than blitz unless its the norm for that team to do so. I remember several decent QB's saying they would rather the defense blitz because it opens up passing lanes. Steve Young and Kurt Warner come to mind with this. Young also said at some point of your career the game slows down and you recognize exactly what the defense is trying to do on every play. More people at the LOS means less people in coverage.

Alex simply isn't there yet.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:









This is a fun one! Talk about a BLOWN play by the LT! The good thing is that the rusher was coming from the far left and since no lineman was also on him (creating a wall), Rodgers could step anywhere to avoid this rush...could step up, back, to the right and then he does THIS...wow. A full spin. He needed to do this too b/c his WR's we clearly running LONG pass plays and never broke off routes d/t the (unexpected) rush. This is just a great individual play and another reason why he is the best QB in the game right now. It looks like he cold have run for about 40 yards too untouched.

I just can't picture this scenario ever happening for us (expect for letting a free rusher come/blown assignment).

Appreciate the breakdowns Y2R!
Originally posted by susweel:
Man where are you guys getting all this great content ?

Brazil, The OP, has 49ers coaches film.

I'm doing screen shots using "Print Screen" and editing them with the paint tool in the accessories.

The Rogers and Montana vids are from youtube.
Originally posted by NCommand:
This is a fun one! Talk about a BLOWN play by the LT! The good thing is that the rusher was coming from the far left and since no lineman was also on him (creating a wall), Rodgers could step anywhere to avoid this rush...could step up, back, to the right and then he does THIS...wow. A full spin. He needed to do this too b/c his WR's we clearly running LONG pass plays and never broke off routes d/t the (unexpected) rush. This is just a great individual play and another reason why he is the best QB in the game right now. It looks like he cold have run for about 40 yards too untouched.

I just can't picture this scenario ever happening for us (expect for letting a free rusher come/blown assignment).

Appreciate the breakdowns Y2R!

Thanks. On that play actually Jennings broke off his route and Rogers hit a nice backshoulder throw for a first down.

John Abraham, who Rodgers escaped from, put his hands up in frustration after that play. It was third down and a back breaker.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by NCommand:
This is a fun one! Talk about a BLOWN play by the LT! The good thing is that the rusher was coming from the far left and since no lineman was also on him (creating a wall), Rodgers could step anywhere to avoid this rush...could step up, back, to the right and then he does THIS...wow. A full spin. He needed to do this too b/c his WR's we clearly running LONG pass plays and never broke off routes d/t the (unexpected) rush. This is just a great individual play and another reason why he is the best QB in the game right now. It looks like he cold have run for about 40 yards too untouched.

I just can't picture this scenario ever happening for us (expect for letting a free rusher come/blown assignment).

Appreciate the breakdowns Y2R!

Thanks. On that play actually Jennings broke off his route and Rogers hit a nice backshoulder throw for a first down.

John Abraham, who Rodgers escaped from, put his hands up in frustration after that play. It was third down and a back breaker.

Freaking awesome! Rodgers was able to juke a rusher and buy more time, the WR breaks off the route and a perfect back-breaking play is made.

Instead, we had Alex against AZ rolling INTO the pressure, runs 20 yards backwards, jukes two rushers, runs up field, the WR's are all standing there watching the play and the one who makes an effort to get open drops the pass and we lose the game.
[ Edited by NCommand on Dec 16, 2011 at 10:58 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by NCommand:
This is a fun one! Talk about a BLOWN play by the LT! The good thing is that the rusher was coming from the far left and since no lineman was also on him (creating a wall), Rodgers could step anywhere to avoid this rush...could step up, back, to the right and then he does THIS...wow. A full spin. He needed to do this too b/c his WR's we clearly running LONG pass plays and never broke off routes d/t the (unexpected) rush. This is just a great individual play and another reason why he is the best QB in the game right now. It looks like he cold have run for about 40 yards too untouched.

I just can't picture this scenario ever happening for us (expect for letting a free rusher come/blown assignment).

Appreciate the breakdowns Y2R!

Thanks. On that play actually Jennings broke off his route and Rogers hit a nice backshoulder throw for a first down.

John Abraham, who Rodgers escaped from, put his hands up in frustration after that play. It was third down and a back breaker.

Freaking awesome! Rodgers was able to juke a rusher and buy more time, the WR breaks off the route and a perfect back-breaking play is made.

Instead, we had Alex against AZ rolling INTO the pressure, runs 20 yards backwards, jukes two rushers, runs up field, the WR's are all standing there watching the play and the one who makes an effort to get open drops the pass and we lose the game.

Yup.

Passing game needs work. JH was supposed to improve this. But i guess he got rid of the stupid turnovers by the WR and RB and dumb ints by Smith. This has enables our D and ST to grind out games
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Dec 16, 2011 at 11:01 AM ]
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by NCommand:
This is a fun one! Talk about a BLOWN play by the LT! The good thing is that the rusher was coming from the far left and since no lineman was also on him (creating a wall), Rodgers could step anywhere to avoid this rush...could step up, back, to the right and then he does THIS...wow. A full spin. He needed to do this too b/c his WR's we clearly running LONG pass plays and never broke off routes d/t the (unexpected) rush. This is just a great individual play and another reason why he is the best QB in the game right now. It looks like he cold have run for about 40 yards too untouched.

I just can't picture this scenario ever happening for us (expect for letting a free rusher come/blown assignment).

Appreciate the breakdowns Y2R!

Thanks. On that play actually Jennings broke off his route and Rogers hit a nice backshoulder throw for a first down.

John Abraham, who Rodgers escaped from, put his hands up in frustration after that play. It was third down and a back breaker.

Freaking awesome! Rodgers was able to juke a rusher and buy more time, the WR breaks off the route and a perfect back-breaking play is made.

Instead, we had Alex against AZ rolling INTO the pressure, runs 20 yards backwards, jukes two rushers, runs up field, the WR's are all standing there watching the play and the one who makes an effort to get open drops the pass and we lose the game.

Yup.

Passing game needs work. JH was supposed to improve this. But i guess he got rid of the stupid turnovers by the WR and RB and dumb ints by Smith. This has enables our D and ST to grind out games

Probably wont be improved on until next year when JH can get players that he wants. This shortened off season pretty stuck him with Singletary's players.

The offensive side of the team needs a make over.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
This has been even further eye opening. The fact that our OL is allowing DT's to split double teams within ONE SECOND in the middle is ASTOUNDING. There is no other way to describe aside from atrocious -- and all the synonyms that go with that.

I'm sorry, but a QB should be able to expect more than 1-2 seconds to actually look around and throw the ball. Frick, man, on Thursday Night Football tonight I watched Ryan stand there for 3 to 4 seconds.. 1st second look at first read, 2nd second look at 2nd read.. 3rd.. then fires to fourth read. We are lucky if our QB has enough time to see the first, and by the time that happens, he's prepping for a hit.

Sometimes guys are going to break free, especially when you are playing a great D. You have to avoid the instant rush and make a throw. Its part of the game. The better ones do it consistently.

Watch this game winning pass in a bowl game by Montana. INSTANT pressure, quick shift to the right and a fire dart for a TD. We need to see things like this from Alex. Not pause, make a attempt at a juke, and take a sack. In this vid, there is no doubt in my mind Alex Smith would take a sack on that last play of the game.


My fellow WZ, brother, Smith has done things like this no problem at all before, man. As NCommand pointed out, this is a much much different situation that the AZ Sack we're talking about. Shorter route, shorter drop, shorter everything. I can put up several examples of Alex making that exact kind of play/throw, except sometimes it's with guys in his face even. Here:

1:00 Mark of this clip: http://www.49ers.com/media-gallery/videos/Highlights-49ers-vs-Browns/a09e7ed1-4940-4c88-9d45-3f7120a0481a

Then here: (Scroll down and click on Smith to Crabtree conversion) http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011111312/2011/REG10/giants@49ers#menu=highlights&tab=recap
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
This has been even further eye opening. The fact that our OL is allowing DT's to split double teams within ONE SECOND in the middle is ASTOUNDING. There is no other way to describe aside from atrocious -- and all the synonyms that go with that.

I'm sorry, but a QB should be able to expect more than 1-2 seconds to actually look around and throw the ball. Frick, man, on Thursday Night Football tonight I watched Ryan stand there for 3 to 4 seconds.. 1st second look at first read, 2nd second look at 2nd read.. 3rd.. then fires to fourth read. We are lucky if our QB has enough time to see the first, and by the time that happens, he's prepping for a hit.

Sometimes guys are going to break free, especially when you are playing a great D. You have to avoid the instant rush and make a throw. Its part of the game. The better ones do it consistently.

Watch this game winning pass in a bowl game by Montana. INSTANT pressure, quick shift to the right and a fire dart for a TD. We need to see things like this from Alex. Not pause, make a attempt at a juke, and take a sack. In this vid, there is no doubt in my mind Alex Smith would take a sack on that last play of the game.


My fellow WZ, brother, Smith has done things like this no problem at all before, man. As NCommand pointed out, this is a much much different situation that the AZ Sack we're talking about. Shorter route, shorter drop, shorter everything. I can put up several examples of Alex making that exact kind of play/throw, except sometimes it's with guys in his face even. Here:

1:00 Mark of this clip: http://www.49ers.com/media-gallery/videos/Highlights-49ers-vs-Browns/a09e7ed1-4940-4c88-9d45-3f7120a0481a

Then here: (Scroll down and click on Smith to Crabtree conversion) http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011111312/2011/REG10/giants@49ers#menu=highlights&tab=recap

Yeah the play is different but this was in response to people who thought it was silly to expect a QB to beat instant pressure. It can must be done. Like you said an exemplified, Smith has done it as well. Instant pressure in this league will occur.

smit has done it before i know i watch the games. He needs to do it more consistently and frequently and has to finish the escape with a good throw. Yes, it is a lot to ask but the best get it done more often then not. He gets sacked more often then he does beat a rush like this. Its called pocket awareness. Many experts believe this is and has been a problem. I've been complaining about his "happy feet" even when I was a big fan.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Dec 16, 2011 at 11:23 AM ]
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
This has been even further eye opening. The fact that our OL is allowing DT's to split double teams within ONE SECOND in the middle is ASTOUNDING. There is no other way to describe aside from atrocious -- and all the synonyms that go with that.

I'm sorry, but a QB should be able to expect more than 1-2 seconds to actually look around and throw the ball. Frick, man, on Thursday Night Football tonight I watched Ryan stand there for 3 to 4 seconds.. 1st second look at first read, 2nd second look at 2nd read.. 3rd.. then fires to fourth read. We are lucky if our QB has enough time to see the first, and by the time that happens, he's prepping for a hit.

Sometimes guys are going to break free, especially when you are playing a great D. You have to avoid the instant rush and make a throw. Its part of the game. The better ones do it consistently.

Watch this game winning pass in a bowl game by Montana. INSTANT pressure, quick shift to the right and a fire dart for a TD. We need to see things like this from Alex. Not pause, make a attempt at a juke, and take a sack. In this vid, there is no doubt in my mind Alex Smith would take a sack on that last play of the game.



My fellow WZ, brother, Smith has done things like this no problem at all before, man. As NCommand pointed out, this is a much much different situation that the AZ Sack we're talking about. Shorter route, shorter drop, shorter everything. I can put up several examples of Alex making that exact kind of play/throw, except sometimes it's with guys in his face even. Here:

1:00 Mark of this clip: http://www.49ers.com/media-gallery/videos/Highlights-49ers-vs-Browns/a09e7ed1-4940-4c88-9d45-3f7120a0481a

Then here: (Scroll down and click on Smith to Crabtree conversion) http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011111312/2011/REG10/giants@49ers#menu=highlights&tab=recap

Yeah the play is different but this was in response to people who thought it was silly to expect a QB to beat instant pressure. It can must be done. Like you said an exemplified, Smith has done it as well. Instant pressure in this league will occur.

smit has done it before i know i watch the games. He needs to do it more consistently and frequently and has to finish the escape with a good throw. Yes, it is a lot to ask but the best get it done more often then not.

The point that I was trying to get across was that "instant pressure" needs to be taken within the context of the situation. Simply put, instant pressure does not always look the same, just as the play and routes called on offense can be a multitude of different things in any given down/situation, as well as the defensive talent and the player in general who is the free rusher. Example: Easier to run away from a 350 pounder than a 200 pound CB blitzing sometimes.

I would love it if Alex could spin off and juke and hurdle defenders in the backfield 100% of the time, but obviously he's not that level of freakishly athletic, although he is athletic. I think he does a better job of evading pressure than most of the league. Just seems like lately, because we've lost a couple, people have started to put more impetus on his play to a microscopic level and say, "well on a sack or two, he could've escaped." as if it's a glaring issue when it really hasn't. He's not dominantly evasive, but he's good.

Believe it or not, one of Rodgers' only criticisms in the past was he held the ball too long sometimes. He would get hit a bit, but he would look for a play while also protecting the ball. This year he's greatly improved. I think we are spending too much time on this issue because it's way overblown. I think we're all just searching for answers after our 2nd loss in three weeks.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Dec 16, 2011 at 11:47 AM ]
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by NCommand:
This is a fun one! Talk about a BLOWN play by the LT! The good thing is that the rusher was coming from the far left and since no lineman was also on him (creating a wall), Rodgers could step anywhere to avoid this rush...could step up, back, to the right and then he does THIS...wow. A full spin. He needed to do this too b/c his WR's we clearly running LONG pass plays and never broke off routes d/t the (unexpected) rush. This is just a great individual play and another reason why he is the best QB in the game right now. It looks like he cold have run for about 40 yards too untouched.

I just can't picture this scenario ever happening for us (expect for letting a free rusher come/blown assignment).

Appreciate the breakdowns Y2R!

Thanks. On that play actually Jennings broke off his route and Rogers hit a nice backshoulder throw for a first down.

John Abraham, who Rodgers escaped from, put his hands up in frustration after that play. It was third down and a back breaker.

Freaking awesome! Rodgers was able to juke a rusher and buy more time, the WR breaks off the route and a perfect back-breaking play is made.

Instead, we had Alex against AZ rolling INTO the pressure, runs 20 yards backwards, jukes two rushers, runs up field, the WR's are all standing there watching the play and the one who makes an effort to get open drops the pass and we lose the game.

Yup.

Passing game needs work. JH was supposed to improve this. But i guess he got rid of the stupid turnovers by the WR and RB and dumb ints by Smith. This has enables our D and ST to grind out games

Probably wont be improved on until next year when JH can get players that he wants. This shortened off season pretty stuck him with Singletary's players.

The offensive side of the team needs a make over.

I'm guessing JH/Baalke will get a Guard on first round. We are picking late, so we are in a perfect stop to do that. Then maybe a WR or a DB.

I guessing a QB is out of the question considering we have Kapernick. It remains to be seen wether JIm thinks he is ready and let Alex go or he keeps Alex to keep developing Kap. In this last scenario, I don't see JH going after another vet, unless it's Peyton Manning (but that's really far-fetched).
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
This has been even further eye opening. The fact that our OL is allowing DT's to split double teams within ONE SECOND in the middle is ASTOUNDING. There is no other way to describe aside from atrocious -- and all the synonyms that go with that.

I'm sorry, but a QB should be able to expect more than 1-2 seconds to actually look around and throw the ball. Frick, man, on Thursday Night Football tonight I watched Ryan stand there for 3 to 4 seconds.. 1st second look at first read, 2nd second look at 2nd read.. 3rd.. then fires to fourth read. We are lucky if our QB has enough time to see the first, and by the time that happens, he's prepping for a hit.

Sometimes guys are going to break free, especially when you are playing a great D. You have to avoid the instant rush and make a throw. Its part of the game. The better ones do it consistently.

Watch this game winning pass in a bowl game by Montana. INSTANT pressure, quick shift to the right and a fire dart for a TD. We need to see things like this from Alex. Not pause, make a attempt at a juke, and take a sack. In this vid, there is no doubt in my mind Alex Smith would take a sack on that last play of the game.


My fellow WZ, brother, Smith has done things like this no problem at all before, man. As NCommand pointed out, this is a much much different situation that the AZ Sack we're talking about. Shorter route, shorter drop, shorter everything. I can put up several examples of Alex making that exact kind of play/throw, except sometimes it's with guys in his face even. Here:

1:00 Mark of this clip: http://www.49ers.com/media-gallery/videos/Highlights-49ers-vs-Browns/a09e7ed1-4940-4c88-9d45-3f7120a0481a

Then here: (Scroll down and click on Smith to Crabtree conversion) http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011111312/2011/REG10/giants@49ers#menu=highlights&tab=recap

Yeah the play is different but this was in response to people who thought it was silly to expect a QB to beat instant pressure. It can must be done. Like you said an exemplified, Smith has done it as well. Instant pressure in this league will occur.

smit has done it before i know i watch the games. He needs to do it more consistently and frequently and has to finish the escape with a good throw. Yes, it is a lot to ask but the best get it done more often then not.

The point that I was trying to get across was that "instant pressure" needs to be taken within the context of the situation. Simply put, instant pressure does not always look the same, just as the play and routes called on offense can be a multitude of different things in any given down/situation, as well as the defensive talent and the player in general who is the free rusher. Example: Easier to run away from a 350 pounder than a 200 pound CB blitzing sometimes.

I would love it if Alex could spin off and juke and hurdle defenders in the backfield 100% of the time, but obviously he's not that level of freakishly athletic, although he is athletic. I think he does a better job of evading pressure than most of the league. Just seems like lately, because we've lost a couple, people have started to put more impetus on his play to a microscopic level and say, "well on a sack or two, he could've escaped." as if it's a glaring issue when it really hasn't. He's not dominantly evasive, but he's good.

Believe it or not, one of Rodgers' only criticisms in the past was he held the ball too long sometimes. He would get hit a bit (although Rodgers has never had more hits or sacks than Smith in a season), but he would look for a play while also protecting the ball. This year he's greatly improved. I think we are spending too much time on this issue because it's way overblown. I think we're all just searching for answers after our 2nd loss in three weeks.

Rogers was sacked 50 times in 2009 and put up 30 TDs and 7 ints with a 103.2 rating and 4400 yards. That is what happens when you are getting pressure, but you are still able to make plays regardless of that. That year his O-line was injured and depleted but he was still able to have success. Smith is approaching 50 this year with 39 sacks, which is a career high but not even close to the stats Rogers put up in 2009...

Of course not all instant pressure is the same. But many of us have seen Smith fold under the pressure and bail out too soon. A clear example was that last Offensive play in the cards game. He inexplicably left the pocket and made a foolish play thereafter. Smith does this more often then not which explains why his numbers are so low.

Again, Rogers, in 2009 getting sacked 50 times with a crap Oline had success because of his pocket awareness and thereafter playmaking ability. And his ultra-accurate rocket arm doesn't hurt either.

When Smith is pressured, things go horribly wrong. This year he has cut the mistakes while under pressure, but still is unable to make plays under pressure.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Dec 16, 2011 at 11:58 AM ]
This stuff is fascinating...
Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
I'm guessing JH/Baalke will get a Guard on first round. We are picking late, so we are in a perfect stop to do that. Then maybe a WR or a DB.

I guessing a QB is out of the question considering we have Kapernick. It remains to be seen wether JIm thinks he is ready and let Alex go or he keeps Alex to keep developing Kap. In this last scenario, I don't see JH going after another vet, unless it's Peyton Manning (but that's really far-fetched).

I doubt we will go Guard in the first round, Im thinking maybe CB, or OLB. I think they will go after some offensive players in the free agency. Not sure what happens at QB, I could see them going in a different direction though.
Alex has been doing a better job of stepping up in pocket this season his pocket awareness has improved. As of late Goodwin has been getting beat on a consistent basis, heck our double teams have been getting split like a hot knife through butter. Some of those sacks were scheme, and some were just our guys getting manhandled. I can remember i believe maybe 2 of the sacks Alex could of got that ball out faster. Like at times it seems he's a lil too cautious when throwing the rock, because sometimes the throw is there, but if the window is too tight he wont pull the trigger. At times he does make that throw, i believe him being more consistent in this area is going to be apart of his maturation as an quarterback.