Why are we so bad in the Red Zone??

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by unst4bl3:

Originally posted by ssahnan:
play calling is limited because it's designed to maximize what he have given our skill, talent shortcomings. Anthony Davis is a bust, Joe Staley is not an offensice lineman commiserate of the contract he has, Not one of our recievers is capable of week in-week out makinbgt he tough catch and at the end of the day, so happy that Alex Smith finally gets to have some sucess but also mostly week in-week out the opposition has a qb that makes throws that Alex Smith just can't flat out make.

Harbaugh has micro-managed the living crap out of this team to bleed out the season we are having, this team has zero shot in it's current configuration at a superbowl. We don't have an offensive line to let Alex make the throws he knows how to make, Alex isn't a qb that can make the throws needed from a qb when that qb doesn't have the line that makes life easy. You combine all of that and you get a ridicuously limited playcall

I disagree, about the WRs at least. I think Crabs, and Kyle Williams on the colts, or giants, or packers would be great. On our team with the qb, and the way they are used they are hot garbage.

The rest of our WR's and TE's have regressed surprisingly since Jimmy Raye left. I want to know how Cutler went from getting sacked like crazy in every game, to the bears having a decent oline, and calling a different type of game. Why can't we do that?

both crabs and williams are doing great

crabs just isnt getting oppurtunities in red zone but everywhere else hes doing great
without injuries he would actually have over 1000 yard season this year

as for kyle williams he is doing good just not getting enough oppurtnities

I don't doubt there performance but I just think on average, we lack the guys that really go out there and make the tough catches normal wr wouldn't. Glad we are getting production out of some of these guys but none of these jump off the page as being special. None of them are game changing wr's

Originally posted by ssahnan:
I don't doubt there performance but I just think on average, we lack the guys that really go out there and make the tough catches normal wr wouldn't. Glad we are getting production out of some of these guys but none of these jump off the page as being special. None of them are game changing wr's

Watching Green, as I mentioned in another thread, is making me really ill. The 9er receivers just do not make the kind of plays he is making. Smith has to hit them just right and then hope they don't drop the ball. I have hope for Crabtree and Williams, and even Edwards if he can get healthy, but up to this point they are underacheiving and it is not on the QB...other things can be credited to Smith but not drops.

Everything becomes compacted in the redzone and windows get tighter. The philosophy of the offense has been low risk. Therefore, Alex isn't making those risky throws in tight windows. At least he isn't turning it over. Also, I think defenses are focusing on VD in the redzone more than ever and for whatever reason our WRs aren't coming through (especially Braylon on fades and back shoulder routes). Alex will have to get ballsier in the playoffs probably and try and hit those tight windows.

Our running game has taken a major step back and has been extremely ineffective in the redzone also. This point isn't being mentioned enough.

Originally posted by ssahnan:
play calling is limited because it's designed to maximize what he have given our skill, talent shortcomings. Anthony Davis is a bust, Joe Staley is not an offensice lineman commiserate of the contract he has, Not one of our recievers is capable of week in-week out makinbgt he tough catch and at the end of the day, so happy that Alex Smith finally gets to have some sucess but also mostly week in-week out the opposition has a qb that makes throws that Alex Smith just can't flat out make.

Harbaugh has micro-managed the living crap out of this team to bleed out the season we are having, this team has zero shot in it's current configuration at a superbowl. We don't have an offensive line to let Alex make the throws he knows how to make, Alex isn't a qb that can make the throws needed from a qb when that qb doesn't have the line that makes life easy. You combine all of that and you get a ridicuously limited playcall

Very nice summary. I also think we really need a taller go-to TE that can run good routes like Gronkowski or Graham. VD is good but he is listed at 6-3 which means he is probably shorter. We need someone that is closer to 6-6 so they can make the tough catches in the middle and in the red zone.

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
We either run to the middle, or throw to the outside. Everyone knows it. Need to mix it up more, and throw to the middle of the field with our bigger receivers. Also wouldnt mind seeing runners bounce it outside a bit.

Agree. This is what I'm seeing. We run up the middle or throw to the edges. The main connection of these two tendencies is not losing yardage and not turning it over. This is a coaching/play-calling issue. They've settled for FGs because that has worked. But it doesn't now, and won't in the playoffs. JH has advocated the getting-better philosophy, but not taking risks confounds that.

Remember the wrap-around draw to Roger Craig (and the play action wrap-around draw and pass to Craig)? Slants and passes to the back of the endzone.

I think Steve is hit the nail on the head on this:

"Can you make someone take more chances when he's not a risk-taker by nature?" the ESPN analyst and Hall of Famer told KNBR radio in San Francisco recently. "Some of the stuff they were running against Arizona was one read -- he had one option, and if that guy wasn't open, throw it away." The point, according to Young, was that quarterbacks must throw receivers open in the red zone because defensive backs can play tighter coverage in more confined spaces. "We know Alex doesn't really like to do that," Young told KNBR. "He's not a gambler by nature. Is that something you can fix, or is that just the way it is?"

Originally posted by sacniner:
I think Steve is hit the nail on the head on this:

"Can you make someone take more chances when he's not a risk-taker by nature?" the ESPN analyst and Hall of Famer told KNBR radio in San Francisco recently. "Some of the stuff they were running against Arizona was one read -- he had one option, and if that guy wasn't open, throw it away." The point, according to Young, was that quarterbacks must throw receivers open in the red zone because defensive backs can play tighter coverage in more confined spaces. "We know Alex doesn't really like to do that," Young told KNBR. "He's not a gambler by nature. Is that something you can fix, or is that just the way it is?"

Yeah, this is what I've been saying for a while now...the one and only option offense. Its even more compounded when we play a zone blitz defense b/c we go even more max protection. Alex's entire career has been predicated on the point of NEVER taking a risk and/or creating a TO. And it's true to a large degree. The RZ just exemplified, magnifies this issue even more. Essentially, for much of the year, our entire offense has become a RZ offense with reasons such as poor OL play, regression, injuries, little time to install more exotic scheme, we were winning with this formula, we were dictated by heavy zone blitz teams, etc.

Originally posted by 49erFanInTX83:
VD, Williams, Crabby (...Miller?). Those are my targets (in that order) if I am attempting a slant/bootleg into the end zone. Get some practice in there with with Alex and you guys should see some improvement (even though I'd really like to see Braylon use his height to our advantage, so he needs to work with Alex to turn around faster to compensate for our less than stellar OLine).

Seriously, wasn't Alex one of the best (or at least decent) in the red zone last year?!?

If I were Harbaugh I would check to see how he did it the red zone last year and try to set things up for Alex that way to get 'er done and get us 7 instead of settling for 3 miserable points.


The offensive line still confounds most of us on here (I don't know if anyone said anything poignant in the past couple of pages or a OLine thread, haven't been on as much as I should be on here), but I hope Solari does something QUICK or we might just have to start looking for someone that can mold these men into an elite championship line.

As someone said, the OL can't really be fixed until next off-season, i.e., move Davis to RG, Staley or Boone to RT, FA/draftee to LT, FA/draftee/Kilgore to C.

Originally posted by sacniner:
I think Steve is hit the nail on the head on this:

"Can you make someone take more chances when he's not a risk-taker by nature?" the ESPN analyst and Hall of Famer told KNBR radio in San Francisco recently. "Some of the stuff they were running against Arizona was one read -- he had one option, and if that guy wasn't open, throw it away." The point, according to Young, was that quarterbacks must throw receivers open in the red zone because defensive backs can play tighter coverage in more confined spaces. "We know Alex doesn't really like to do that," Young told KNBR. "He's not a gambler by nature. Is that something you can fix, or is that just the way it is?"

I agree with everything Steve is saying. Sometimes I wish Alex would take some more chances, I could actually live with a few more INTs because it would also mean we would get more big plays and TDs.

Originally posted by 5280High:
Its already been addressed. This team is behind the eight ball in terms of red zone offense. The coaches did not include the full red zone package when first putting in the offense, now they are gameplanning for each team on a weekly basis. They are playing catch up on this phase of the game and in all honestly it looks like some of the things the coaches expected to work just arent working but during game time its too late. We've seen plays that work like having crabtree coming out of the backfield, but when the power running game gets nullified, defenses will key in on all the plays we've already ran in the season that worked... thats professional football. Things work once but rarely work again once they are on tape.

Bottom line, without any push we can just force our way into the endzone, and Alex, even though he is having a spectacular year, is still being protected with the play calling.

In the end, Im not worried because the AZ game plan looked like it was trying to open up different dynamics of the offense and it didnt work out. For all the guys who wanted to use these last few games to test the capabilities of the players in this offense... well there it is, and it didnt work. Expect to keep seeing pass heavy game plans so that our players can get reps in gametime, sometimes successful and sometimes not successful. But come playoffs, they will go back to the bread and butter of the jumbo package and multiple shifting. This is how teams get better, yes it may cost a bye in the 1st round... but how many recent superbowl champs had a bye going into the playoffs? It's kind of a toss up whether the week of rest helps, or whether teams continuing the grind week after week have an advantage. But at least we have one home playoff game no matter what, and thats the real advantage.

This. Roman already told us what the problem is. Thanks for debating this for 10 pages guys, just don't get mad when your opinion of what is wrong with our red zone offense is wrong...

Originally posted by sacniner:
I think Steve is hit the nail on the head on this:

"Can you make someone take more chances when he's not a risk-taker by nature?" the ESPN analyst and Hall of Famer told KNBR radio in San Francisco recently. "Some of the stuff they were running against Arizona was one read -- he had one option, and if that guy wasn't open, throw it away." The point, according to Young, was that quarterbacks must throw receivers open in the red zone because defensive backs can play tighter coverage in more confined spaces. "We know Alex doesn't really like to do that," Young told KNBR. "He's not a gambler by nature. Is that something you can fix, or is that just the way it is?"

I agree 100%. He's limited plain and simple.

So, Smith could throw in the Red Zone with Raye's offense but now he is limited in Harbaugh's offense? I doubt that it is that simple...or convoluted. Morgan injured, Crabtree finally coming along (as he did late last season), Edwards injured, Ginn not a factor, VD held in for blocking, Walker underacheiving, and the OLine breaking down and letting pressure collapse the middle so Smith can't step up.

Can Harbaugh modify the playcalling in the RZ to accomodate all these areas of weakness? I really hope so, as it is the key to the playoffs. I think Smith needs to have an option to run or throw in the RZ with a roll out or option play. He has done that successfully in the past and even in the near past. Whatever they do I hope they quit running on first and second downs for no gain!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

So, Smith could throw in the Red Zone with Raye's offense but now he is limited in Harbaugh's offense? I doubt that it is that simple...or convoluted. Morgan injured, Crabtree finally coming along (as he did late last season), Edwards injured, Ginn not a factor, VD held in for blocking, Walker underacheiving, and the OLine breaking down and letting pressure collapse the middle so Smith can't step up.

Can Harbaugh modify the playcalling in the RZ to accomodate all these areas of weakness? I really hope so, as it is the key to the playoffs. I think Smith needs to have an option to run or throw in the RZ with a roll out or option play. He has done that successfully in the past and even in the near past. Whatever they do I hope they quit running on first and second downs for no gain!

I hear a lot of arguments about smith in the red zone last year and how efficient he was.. But my question it's how often were we in the red zone last year compared to this year?

Originally posted by jays9ers:
I hear a lot of arguments about smith in the red zone last year and how efficient he was.. But my question it's how often were we in the red zone last year compared to this year?

It's based on percentage of success so it doesn't matter much how many chances you have.

2/4 this year against the 2nd best red zone D


its already getting better