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Week 10: Thoughts after rewatching the Giants game....

Originally posted by niner804233:
Good recap from profootballfocus.com. The usual take on Justin. Carlos graded out negative overall.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/11/14/re-focused-giants-49ers-week-10/

I don't know how they can say that Carlos was the beneficiary of a bit of luck on his interceptions. On the first INT he read and covered the route perfectly, undercutting Cruz and intercepting the ball cleanly. On the second, yes the receiver didn't run the right route, but Rogers again read it correctly and dove to make the interception. If these Interceptions are lucky then I would be hardpressed to find any interception that is not lucky.
Originally posted by 9erHIGH:
personally, what surprises me is that more people arent discussing how Alex really OUTPLAYED Eli in this game. Not from a fantasy football perspective, but from a "do the correct things to help your team" perspective i believe he did. Eli had BY FAR the better highlights and some absolutely GORGEOUS throws, but his two INTs were REALLY REALLY BAD THROWS and he was one dashon goldson toe tap away from throwing a 3rd pick on a REALLY REALLY BAD THROW.

I know it goes contrary to the "sportscenter highlight, fantasy football driven" mentality people tend to view sports with these days, but i would rather have a QB be safe and lead my team to a FG, then throw a pick giving the other team the ball in their own territory... TWICE!!! it always has been, and always will be the most important stat in football: TURNOVER DIFFERENTIAL! our QB was better at this and that is why he was the better football player and QB yesterday IMO.

Yep, Smith sure did out played Eli. A better all around game from Smith. Eli had a few excellent, perfect throws, but if you look at his overall game it wasn't as good as Smith. Alex made really good decisions with throwing and running the ball in key situations. And both of them had sporadic running game, so you can't say that Smith had the running game to help him out or that Eli lacks a running game to depend on.
Originally posted by NCommand:
BTW: Did their receivers drop a single pass yesterday (don't count that finger tip dropped TD pass). Esp. in the 4th quarter...I can think of one drop but it was a bullet by Manning (receiver had no chance).

Cruz dropped the wide-open post-corner route for about 35 yds. Rogers picked off Eli on the same route the next play. On both plays, Rogers gambled - first, he tried to jump the post; second time, he undercut the corner.

Originally posted by real9erfan:
I don't know how they can say that Carlos was the beneficiary of a bit of luck on his interceptions. On the first INT he read and covered the route perfectly, undercutting Cruz and intercepting the ball cleanly. On the second, yes the receiver didn't run the right route, but Rogers again read it correctly and dove to make the interception. If these Interceptions are lucky then I would be hardpressed to find any interception that is not lucky.

I can see why he graded negatively, but agree completely that there was nothing lucky about his picks.

He graded negative, I'd imagine, because you don't grade a player for the result of a play, you grade him for how he played that play. Carlos had plenty of poor snaps. But that's a side-effect of his gambling tendency.

Rogers is a very savvy gambler. He'll undercut routes and look for picks, but only when the opposition is facing a long field. Think about all his picks this year. With the exception of the Philly pick, which was just great conventional deep coverage on Desean Jackson, all of Rogers' big plays have come on their half of the field, when gambled to undercut routes. But when they move in our territory, Rogers plays much more conventional, don't-get-beat-deep coverage. (Asante Samuel, for one, is another guy who plays CB in this style.)

When people say we have a bend-but-don't-break defense, they sometimes say so without understanding why. It's not an accident; it's gameplanning and scheming. We are going for the big play when we can afford to do so, then are tightening up and making them earn it when we can't.
Originally posted by johnnyredneat:
Cruz dropped the wide-open post-corner route for about 35 yds. Rogers picked off Eli on the same route the next play. On both plays, Rogers gambled - first, he tried to jump the post; second time, he undercut the corner.


I can see why he graded negatively, but agree completely that there was nothing lucky about his picks.

He graded negative, I'd imagine, because you don't grade a player for the result of a play, you grade him for how he played that play. Carlos had plenty of poor snaps. But that's a side-effect of his gambling tendency.

Rogers is a very savvy gambler. He'll undercut routes and look for picks, but only when the opposition is facing a long field. Think about all his picks this year. With the exception of the Philly pick, which was just great conventional deep coverage on Desean Jackson, all of Rogers' big plays have come on their half of the field, when gambled to undercut routes. But when they move in our territory, Rogers plays much more conventional, don't-get-beat-deep coverage. (Asante Samuel, for one, is another guy who plays CB in this style.)

When people say we have a bend-but-don't-break defense, they sometimes say so without understanding why. It's not an accident; it's gameplanning and scheming. We are going for the big play when we can afford to do so, then are tightening up and making them earn it when we can't.

I've noticed that too. It's the design of the Fangio bend but don't break defense. Don't let them beat you deep between the 20s. Solid smart defense, clamp down in the red zone. Inside the opponents 15 yds is when they are very aggressive. Unleash the players to do their thing and have fun going after the offense.
Originally posted by johnnyredneat:
Originally posted by NCommand:
BTW: Did their receivers drop a single pass yesterday (don't count that finger tip dropped TD pass). Esp. in the 4th quarter...I can think of one drop but it was a bullet by Manning (receiver had no chance).

Cruz dropped the wide-open post-corner route for about 35 yds. Rogers picked off Eli on the same route the next play. On both plays, Rogers gambled - first, he tried to jump the post; second time, he undercut the corner.

Originally posted by real9erfan:
I don't know how they can say that Carlos was the beneficiary of a bit of luck on his interceptions. On the first INT he read and covered the route perfectly, undercutting Cruz and intercepting the ball cleanly. On the second, yes the receiver didn't run the right route, but Rogers again read it correctly and dove to make the interception. If these Interceptions are lucky then I would be hardpressed to find any interception that is not lucky.

I can see why he graded negatively, but agree completely that there was nothing lucky about his picks.

He graded negative, I'd imagine, because you don't grade a player for the result of a play, you grade him for how he played that play. Carlos had plenty of poor snaps. But that's a side-effect of his gambling tendency.

Rogers is a very savvy gambler. He'll undercut routes and look for picks, but only when the opposition is facing a long field. Think about all his picks this year. With the exception of the Philly pick, which was just great conventional deep coverage on Desean Jackson, all of Rogers' big plays have come on their half of the field, when gambled to undercut routes. But when they move in our territory, Rogers plays much more conventional, don't-get-beat-deep coverage. (Asante Samuel, for one, is another guy who plays CB in this style.)

When people say we have a bend-but-don't-break defense, they sometimes say so without understanding why. It's not an accident; it's gameplanning and scheming. We are going for the big play when we can afford to do so, then are tightening up and making them earn it when we can't.
On some of those plays rogers didn't gamble, he was just straight out beat. Our db's were beat, our safeties were out of position. This game, the dallas game, and the seattle game all showed that our secondary is still a huge weakness if attacked right.

I would really like to know how tarrell can't cover brown, passed spencer on the depth chart. (and culliver) what is the deal with Spencer?
Marvin, thanks for highlighting the great games that Staley and Davis had. I really enjoyed watching them go to work against some really nasty assignments.
Originally posted by unst4bl3:
On some of those plays rogers didn't gamble, he was just straight out beat. Our db's were beat, our safeties were out of position. This game, the dallas game, and the seattle game all showed that our secondary is still a huge weakness if attacked right.

I would really like to know how tarrell can't cover brown, passed spencer on the depth chart. (and culliver) what is the deal with Spencer?

Rogers definitely got beat on some plays. Like I said, I don't have a problem giving him an overall negative grade for a 2 INT game. But I also like his style and am willing to accept that it means we'll give up frustrating amounts of yards. IMO, in this league you simply can't play conventional coverage anymore against good QBs and hope to win. You have to gamble and try to get lucky.

I'm not as pessimistic on Brown and Culliver as you are though. In the games we struggled against the pass, we faced great passing attacks. Vick/Maclin/Jackson, Eli/Manningham/Nicks/Cruz, even Dallas with Romo/Austin/Bryant - if those QBs are on that day, no one is consistently shutting them down. And don't forget that Culliver was matched up a lot with C. Johnson when Detroit was rolling (albeit with a lot of safety help) and played great.

It's a passing league. We're not going to shut these WRs out. No one will. Now if Arizona and John Skelton start moving it on us, I'll be changing my tune...
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
7. Manning: Beat our blitz with a perfect throw. Didn't fault T.Brown too much here. He was suppose to have safety help but #30 came in just a little late. Goldson came from way out. Don't think Fangio will dial that up again any time soon.

9. Whitner: Ronnie Lott -esk hit on the Giants running back. Ickey Wood type hit in the SB

10. Alex Smith: Best all around game in his career. With good decision throwing and running.

7. Thought T.Brown should have jammed Nicks at the line. Would have gave Whitner more time to get over the top because Goldson blitzed and Whitner was on opposite side of field. Also on Manningham td, Culliver has him worked into the corner of end zone. Jump and get a hand up, possibkle deflection or dropped pass because of distraction
great read!
Originally posted by btwagner:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
7. Manning: Beat our blitz with a perfect throw. Didn't fault T.Brown too much here. He was suppose to have safety help but #30 came in just a little late. Goldson came from way out. Don't think Fangio will dial that up again any time soon.

9. Whitner: Ronnie Lott -esk hit on the Giants running back. Ickey Wood type hit in the SB

10. Alex Smith: Best all around game in his career. With good decision throwing and running.

7. Thought T.Brown should have jammed Nicks at the line. Would have gave Whitner more time to get over the top because Goldson blitzed and Whitner was on opposite side of field. Also on Manningham td, Culliver has him worked into the corner of end zone. Jump and get a hand up, possibkle deflection or dropped pass because of distraction

Yeah, if they are going to call that blitz again, there should be more coordination from those 3 players. Culliver did a good job adjusting to that TD that he gave up in the corner fade. It took a very good throw and a good catch to get that TD over Culliver. They went after him again with the same play but Culliver 'jammed' his receiver more towards the back of the end zone. Making it ever harder to keep both the pass and the catch in bound. Cully will be a good one.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Nov 15, 2011 at 5:30 PM ]
for whatever reason, VD seems to think he's Deshawn Jackson. Everytime he catches the ball, he looks to cut back and make people miss and ends up losing yards he could've picked up by simply falling forward. On his TD, he tried to fly over the defender, almost losing the ball. Why doesn't he realize he's 250 pounds of pure muscle? RUN OVER SOME MOTHERf**kERS VD!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by ChazBoner:
for whatever reason, VD seems to think he's Deshawn Jackson. Everytime he catches the ball, he looks to cut back and make people miss and ends up losing yards he could've picked up by simply falling forward. On his TD, he tried to fly over the defender, almost losing the ball. Why doesn't he realize he's 250 pounds of pure muscle? RUN OVER SOME MOTHERf**kERS VD!!!!!!!!!!

VD jumped around the 5-4.5 yard line, I'm thinking he didn't want the cb to take his legs out and possibly not get the TD
great read. Appreicate the quality post.
Marvin,
I forgot exactly on which play, may have been the Crabtree 15 or so yard dig route but did you see our pass blocking scheme on that play? I had to rewind it 4 times because it was DAMN impressive. We freaking pulled a Guard to pass block.

Here's the design:

Unbalanced line to the right with 46 and 85. 21 offset to Alex's left (maybe right).

Snap:

Freaking Snyder pulls to his left, 21 moves to the left and chips the End getting him off balance and Snyder, who has running momentum, finishes the End off.

46 and 85 double the LDE on the right side

FOUR OL (LT, LG, C, RT) on both DT's.


That was impressive!!!!!! Pulling Gaurd/RB and our Two TE's to handle their Defensive Ends and 4 of our OL to handle their DT's or possibly any blitzed. Wow!



THIS is why we are a step ahead of other teams.
I prettty much agree with your analysis of Sunday's game. But my biggest dissagreement is signing C. Rogers to an extension. That guy is screaming red flags. Yes he knows how to catch a couple int's this season. But the dude is getting burnt like toast every game, and this is contract year for him. So you know next year he's going to drop down in gears. He keeps saying it himself. "I want a new contract". Plus he's 30 now. He will be at best just another 2years if even. I say we invest in a db early on in this upcoming draft. With our 1st round pick being #32.