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Is Harbaugh the best coach we've had since Seifert?

Is Harbaugh the best coach we've had since Seifert?

Originally posted by paulk205:
I really can't believe what I'm reading here. Harbaugh's won SIX games and he's the best since Walsh? Siefert "sucked" although he came within one fumble and (I insist here) one phantom holding call from bringing the team to 4 SBs (and I'm sure Buffalo wouldn't have stood a chance against us in 90 & 92)? The pathetic 86 & 87 blowout losses are conveniently forgotten, and yet Siefert is dismissed for giving the ball to Roger to run the clock out in 90 - the same Roger who scored all those touchdowns in the 84 SB and who went 1000/1000 yards a couple years back

Oh, Siefert wasn't "animated", sure. George was famously Olympian, even when Steve Young was ripping him just behind him in plain sight of the TV cameras after getting pulled in that 40-8 loss to Philly. Some of us take such displays as evidence of maturity and control. Every person has his style. Harbaugh likes to untuck his shirt? Good. But I'm sure that had we lost some of those close games now we would be ripping him for being an immature idiot. I recall people creaming their pants about Nolan's "sideline suit" thing when we were 5-5 in 2006 or 2-0 early in 07, and then calling him "Coach SUIT" after we started losing again.

The only measure of greatness is Ws. Harbaugh has six of those, and I'm as ecstatic as anyone about them here, particularly since I was expecting us to get six in the whole season, not by Halloween. But Siefert won ninety-eight, including ten playoff wins and two rings. I'll take this kind of "suckiness", any day.

Is it not possible to rate George as a great DC and a good HC, but take the view that he would have struggled with us now in the light of his performance with Carolina, without being accused of saying he sucked?
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Well....I might get blasted for this, but so far he's probably the best coach since Walsh.

There is a long road ahead, but so far he's that good.

I was never a huge fan of Siefert. He just kinda took the reigns and the player ran the show. I really liked Mariucci.

Both of those guys tho maintained the greatness. They didn't have to BUILD it. They didn't have to turn it around.

Many of the pieces were already here for Harbaugh, but he's the one who has been able to use it effectively and put those guys in a position to succeed.

But you cant knock Seifert down because he didnt take over a crappy team. he was one of Walsh's main guys from 1980 when they sucked, and then was given the task to follow his act. he responded by going 14-2, 14-2, 10-6, 14-2, 10-6. 13-3. 11-5, 12-4 with 2 super bowl titles in 8 seasons. at some point you have to say just because Walsh drew up the blueprints doesnt mean it wasnt extremely challenging to maintain the success that was expected.

Walsh: 92-59-1, 10 playoff wins, 3 rings.
Seifert: 98-30-0, 10 playoff wins, 2 rings.
Mariucci: 57-39, 3 playoff wins, 0 rings.

I really have no idea why Seifert gets dumped on so much by Niner fans. Walsh retires, he takes over. hes never going to be able to live up to running the team like Walsh did, so he gave it his best shot, and won more games, lost less games, won the same amount of playoff games, and won just 1 less title, all in 2 fewer seasons than Walsh. Seifert is overrated? give me a break. nobody is trying to say hes better than Walsh, but he was a great coach. his .766 winning% with the 49ers wouldve ranked him 1st all time before he took over the talentless, newly started Carolina Panthers.

Yes, but he also went to Carolina and bombed in a big way.

I'm not saying I don't like him, I'm just saying I think Harbaugh is better.

he went to a HORRIBLE Carolina team. blaming that atrocity on Seifert isnt fair at all.

Saying you think Jim Harbaugh is a better coach is laughable. before Seifert tried to take over that mess in Carolina, he had the highest winning % in NFL history as a HC, had 2 rings, and 10 playoff wins. Calling Harbaugh better after 7 games is ridiculous. lets see Harbaugh start out 14-2 in 3 of his first 4 years here before you start exalting him as better.
Why do we make so much of Carolina? We're not Panthers fans. A team is not just the HC - there must be a whole culture behind it. Carolina was a recent expansion team, without history or particular crowd involvement, and no particular talent on the field and the backroom. OK, he failed. But he was in SF for 15 years or whatever it was, helped built the team along with Walsh, then took it over and gave us championship expectations, year after year, not to mention two rings and we're talking about Carolina?

IF Harbaugh keeps this up and gets us deep into the playoffs (which frankly means the championship game) then, sure, we can discuss whether he has reversed the culture of losing of the last decade. If he just gets us to the divisionals (be that with a WC win or via a bye) I'll be happy enough - but compare him to a coach with George's record and contribution to the team? After SIX wins? A bit premature, I reckon.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Well....I might get blasted for this, but so far he's probably the best coach since Walsh.

There is a long road ahead, but so far he's that good.

I was never a huge fan of Siefert. He just kinda took the reigns and the player ran the show. I really liked Mariucci.

Both of those guys tho maintained the greatness. They didn't have to BUILD it. They didn't have to turn it around.

Many of the pieces were already here for Harbaugh, but he's the one who has been able to use it effectively and put those guys in a position to succeed.

But you cant knock Seifert down because he didnt take over a crappy team. he was one of Walsh's main guys from 1980 when they sucked, and then was given the task to follow his act. he responded by going 14-2, 14-2, 10-6, 14-2, 10-6. 13-3. 11-5, 12-4 with 2 super bowl titles in 8 seasons. at some point you have to say just because Walsh drew up the blueprints doesnt mean it wasnt extremely challenging to maintain the success that was expected.

Walsh: 92-59-1, 10 playoff wins, 3 rings.
Seifert: 98-30-0, 10 playoff wins, 2 rings.
Mariucci: 57-39, 3 playoff wins, 0 rings.

I really have no idea why Seifert gets dumped on so much by Niner fans. Walsh retires, he takes over. hes never going to be able to live up to running the team like Walsh did, so he gave it his best shot, and won more games, lost less games, won the same amount of playoff games, and won just 1 less title, all in 2 fewer seasons than Walsh. Seifert is overrated? give me a break. nobody is trying to say hes better than Walsh, but he was a great coach. his .766 winning% with the 49ers wouldve ranked him 1st all time before he took over the talentless, newly started Carolina Panthers.

Yes, but he also went to Carolina and bombed in a big way.

I'm not saying I don't like him, I'm just saying I think Harbaugh is better.

he went to a HORRIBLE Carolina team. blaming that atrocity on Seifert isnt fair at all.

Saying you think Jim Harbaugh is a better coach is laughable. before Seifert tried to take over that mess in Carolina, he had the highest winning % in NFL history as a HC, had 2 rings, and 10 playoff wins. Calling Harbaugh better after 7 games is ridiculous. lets see Harbaugh start out 14-2 in 3 of his first 4 years here before you start exalting him as better.

The point is, he was moving backwards in Carolina.
John Fox took over Seifert's "talentless" Carolina Panther team and took them to the super bowl in his 2nd year. Seifert Spent 3 years in Carolina and his team got consistently worse.

When it's all said and done, Harbaugh will have been the better coach
[ Edited by DonnieDarko on Nov 3, 2011 at 5:22 AM ]
I voted no. I think Harbaugh is the best coach we've had since Walsh. George was great, but he was handed a loaded roster and was asked to keep the momentum going. Harbaugh has changed the culture of the franchise, without so much as a playoff game played (yet). In my book, that makes him the best we've had since the mighty BW.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Well....I might get blasted for this, but so far he's probably the best coach since Walsh.

There is a long road ahead, but so far he's that good.

I was never a huge fan of Siefert. He just kinda took the reigns and the player ran the show. I really liked Mariucci.

Both of those guys tho maintained the greatness. They didn't have to BUILD it. They didn't have to turn it around.

Many of the pieces were already here for Harbaugh, but he's the one who has been able to use it effectively and put those guys in a position to succeed.

But you cant knock Seifert down because he didnt take over a crappy team. he was one of Walsh's main guys from 1980 when they sucked, and then was given the task to follow his act. he responded by going 14-2, 14-2, 10-6, 14-2, 10-6. 13-3. 11-5, 12-4 with 2 super bowl titles in 8 seasons. at some point you have to say just because Walsh drew up the blueprints doesnt mean it wasnt extremely challenging to maintain the success that was expected.

Walsh: 92-59-1, 10 playoff wins, 3 rings.
Seifert: 98-30-0, 10 playoff wins, 2 rings.
Mariucci: 57-39, 3 playoff wins, 0 rings.

I really have no idea why Seifert gets dumped on so much by Niner fans. Walsh retires, he takes over. hes never going to be able to live up to running the team like Walsh did, so he gave it his best shot, and won more games, lost less games, won the same amount of playoff games, and won just 1 less title, all in 2 fewer seasons than Walsh. Seifert is overrated? give me a break. nobody is trying to say hes better than Walsh, but he was a great coach. his .766 winning% with the 49ers wouldve ranked him 1st all time before he took over the talentless, newly started Carolina Panthers.

Yes, but he also went to Carolina and bombed in a big way.

I'm not saying I don't like him, I'm just saying I think Harbaugh is better.

he went to a HORRIBLE Carolina team. blaming that atrocity on Seifert isnt fair at all.

Saying you think Jim Harbaugh is a better coach is laughable. before Seifert tried to take over that mess in Carolina, he had the highest winning % in NFL history as a HC, had 2 rings, and 10 playoff wins. Calling Harbaugh better after 7 games is ridiculous. lets see Harbaugh start out 14-2 in 3 of his first 4 years here before you start exalting him as better.

He took that "horrible" team to 8-8 in year one. 7-9 in year 2. 1-15 in year 3.

Other posters don't want his Carolina record considered. Sorry, but it was in the NFL and it was a part of his career. Does Garrison Hearst's time at San Francisco not count, then?
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,155
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
John Fox took over Seifert's "talentless" Carolina Panther team and took them to the super bowl in his 2nd year. Seifert Spent 3 years in Carolina and his team got consistently worse.

When it's all said and done, Harbaugh will have been the better coach

Wrong. Seifert took over a team in Carolina that was old, limited talent with an owner who was still living in the'70s. During his time there, he began rebuilding the roster but ownership and the fans lost patience and he left. Fox benefitted from the work Seifert put in. Most of the pieces Fox had in that one good run were things Seifert put in place.

I would guess that the same people who are saying Seifert was just an "average" coach are the same ones who say Steve Young was just a product of the Walsh system. Neither position is correct.
Originally posted by Niners99:
he went to a HORRIBLE Carolina team. blaming that atrocity on Seifert isnt fair at all.

Saying you think Jim Harbaugh is a better coach is laughable. before Seifert tried to take over that mess in Carolina, he had the highest winning % in NFL history as a HC, had 2 rings, and 10 playoff wins. Calling Harbaugh better after 7 games is ridiculous. lets see Harbaugh start out 14-2 in 3 of his first 4 years here before you start exalting him as better.


Seifert was handed a great team in the Niners. Harbaugh was not. Seifert went to a terriable team in the Panthers and sucked, Harbaugh got a bad team in the Niners and at this point has done a very good job. Your right its only 7 games. I watched Walsh and Seifert, the team started going down hill with Seifert even tho he won two super bowls. You could see it on the field. It wasnt the same. If I had a bad team I would choose Harbaugh over Seifert in a heartbeat. Mooch was okay and so was Seifert but in no way are they better then Harbaugh.
Dude he is way better than Seifert. Best coach since walsh YES. Seifert was handed a team that was sick and he blew more than once. I just hope JH stays here for the life of his career.. HE is BAD A$$!!!
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,155
Originally posted by overthemiddle:
Originally posted by Niners99:
he went to a HORRIBLE Carolina team. blaming that atrocity on Seifert isnt fair at all.

Saying you think Jim Harbaugh is a better coach is laughable. before Seifert tried to take over that mess in Carolina, he had the highest winning % in NFL history as a HC, had 2 rings, and 10 playoff wins. Calling Harbaugh better after 7 games is ridiculous. lets see Harbaugh start out 14-2 in 3 of his first 4 years here before you start exalting him as better.


Seifert was handed a great team in the Niners. Harbaugh was not. Seifert went to a terriable team in the Panthers and sucked, Harbaugh got a bad team in the Niners and at this point has done a very good job. Your right its only 7 games. I watched Walsh and Seifert, the team started going down hill with Seifert even tho he won two super bowls. You could see it on the field. It wasnt the same. If I had a bad team I would choose Harbaugh over Seifert in a heartbeat. Mooch was okay and so was Seifert but in no way are they better then Harbaugh.

This team had a lot of talented players when Harbaugh arrived. The problem was the coaching was MORE than "just bad." It was HORRIBLE.

That is not to take anything away from Harbaugh. Just to point out a big difference in talent level between the team Seifert inherited in Carolina and what Harbaugh got here.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
John Fox took over Seifert's "talentless" Carolina Panther team and took them to the super bowl in his 2nd year. Seifert Spent 3 years in Carolina and his team got consistently worse.

When it's all said and done, Harbaugh will have been the better coach

Wrong. Seifert took over a team in Carolina that was old, limited talent with an owner who was still living in the'70s. During his time there, he began rebuilding the roster but ownership and the fans lost patience and he left. Fox benefitted from the work Seifert put in. Most of the pieces Fox had in that one good run were things Seifert put in place.

I would guess that the same people who are saying Seifert was just an "average" coach are the same ones who say Steve Young was just a product of the Walsh system. Neither position is correct.

you may be right, i don't remember it correctly, i was only around 14 years old. i do remember that it was a really quick and surprising turnaround and i think John Fox had much more to do with it than Seifert did.
easily

i think when its all said and done he could even pass up seifert

when you look at the question though, this isn't exactly a fair fight

singletard - worst head coach ever
nolan - incompetent idiot
erickson - mediocre coach setup for failure in his second year
mooch - mediocre coach who had a very talented team
Originally posted by overthemiddle:
Seifert was handed a great team in the Niners.

One more time: Siefert helped build that great team along with Walsh. He didn't just walk in the team in 89 from somewhere else. He kept up the talent level for 8 years, both by drafting (e.g. Floyd) and by attracting top quality FAs (most famously in 94). Not everything worked of course (JJ Stokes for instance). But who is perfect?

I will repeat The man came within one fumble and one BS holding call from bringing us to 4 SBs. Even so he won 2 rings and left the team in as good a shape as when he took it. He did screw up now and then: the 93 NFC champ loss was particularly painful. But so did Walsh: most people here are too young to remember the embarrassment of the Vikings loss at home, or the humiliation of the 86 Giants butt-kicking. They forger that we were rubbish the year after the first SB. Even the best coach ever can't be perfect. The NFL is a tough league. Why is Siefert specifically getting all this contempt?
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Well....I might get blasted for this, but so far he's probably the best coach since Walsh.

There is a long road ahead, but so far he's that good.

I was never a huge fan of Siefert. He just kinda took the reigns and the player ran the show. I really liked Mariucci.

Both of those guys tho maintained the greatness. They didn't have to BUILD it. They didn't have to turn it around.

Many of the pieces were already here for Harbaugh, but he's the one who has been able to use it effectively and put those guys in a position to succeed.

But you cant knock Seifert down because he didnt take over a crappy team. he was one of Walsh's main guys from 1980 when they sucked, and then was given the task to follow his act. he responded by going 14-2, 14-2, 10-6, 14-2, 10-6. 13-3. 11-5, 12-4 with 2 super bowl titles in 8 seasons. at some point you have to say just because Walsh drew up the blueprints doesnt mean it wasnt extremely challenging to maintain the success that was expected.

Walsh: 92-59-1, 10 playoff wins, 3 rings.
Seifert: 98-30-0, 10 playoff wins, 2 rings.
Mariucci: 57-39, 3 playoff wins, 0 rings.

I really have no idea why Seifert gets dumped on so much by Niner fans. Walsh retires, he takes over. hes never going to be able to live up to running the team like Walsh did, so he gave it his best shot, and won more games, lost less games, won the same amount of playoff games, and won just 1 less title, all in 2 fewer seasons than Walsh. Seifert is overrated? give me a break. nobody is trying to say hes better than Walsh, but he was a great coach. his .766 winning% with the 49ers wouldve ranked him 1st all time before he took over the talentless, newly started Carolina Panthers.

Yes, but he also went to Carolina and bombed in a big way.

I'm not saying I don't like him, I'm just saying I think Harbaugh is better.

he went to a HORRIBLE Carolina team. blaming that atrocity on Seifert isnt fair at all.

Saying you think Jim Harbaugh is a better coach is laughable. before Seifert tried to take over that mess in Carolina, he had the highest winning % in NFL history as a HC, had 2 rings, and 10 playoff wins. Calling Harbaugh better after 7 games is ridiculous. lets see Harbaugh start out 14-2 in 3 of his first 4 years here before you start exalting him as better.

As others have already mentioned, thart Carolina team wasn't as bad as you are making it out to be.

Look, I liked George as much as the next guy, but he wasn't a great Head Coach. He was a very cood coordinator and a very good custodian to the Walsh legacy. You mention all those records he had, but you neglect to mention he took over a team that had just won the Super Bowl. The PLAYERS largely coached themselves under George. Once some of those players started leaving the team, the team predictably crumbled.

George finally got his shot to build his own legacy in Carolina...where he failed miserably.

The Harbaugh book isn't finished yet. You could completely tank from this poitn on. However, RIGHT NOW, he DOES appear to be the best coach we've had here since Walsh.