This article has it backwards!

Originally posted by zillabeast:
Uh, no the article is actually spot on. This has been a problem for years now and it's a testament to Frank Gore that he has been able to do what he has done with no support through the air. And people wonder why he's already broken down?

this

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by 1stAndGoal49ers:

Originally posted by 49erRider:
Didn't read the article, but the running game IS hurt by the lack of a passing attack. If a team isn't scared of you passing on them, they'll stack the box and hurt the run.

It's just that simple!

if you've never actually watched a football game, then yes.

oh god

I agree that teams tend to stack the LOS against us, but that isn't the only reason why the run isn't effective. Teams have always stacked the line against us. Yet we were still able to get 4+ yard per carry averages. The OL has definatly taken a step back in the new blocking schemes.

The passing game is the only thing working at all for us now. What we need is to get some deep passes to really keep the defense honest. Only problem is, we can't pass protect long enough for deep passing plays to develop. It always has, and always will, come down to the OL.

I disagree with the article completely. I've seen plenty of Raiders games for the past year with Hue Jackson as their OC/ now HC. The guy says he's going to run up the middle, the defense knows it and puts 7 or 8 in the box, and they still break off huge runs. The difference is that their OL is about 100x better than ours is. It starts up front IMO.

Originally posted by Method:
I disagree with the article completely. I've seen plenty of Raiders games for the past year with Hue Jackson as their OC/ now HC. The guy says he's going to run up the middle, the defense knows it and puts 7 or 8 in the box, and they still break off huge runs. The difference is that their OL is about 100x better than ours is. It starts up front IMO.

I think if we had a less predictable offense the past 3 years, we would have also been able to do what Jackson is doing. Jackson is also pulling all the stops in terms of what he's showing.

The Raiders have a makeshift OL. I think Hue Jackson is underrated when it comes to play design and play call.

Didn't read the article, but the running game IS hurt by the lack of a passing attack. If a team isn't scared of you passing on them, they'll stack the box and hurt the run.

Originally posted by blm7754:
I agree that teams tend to stack the LOS against us, but that isn't the only reason why the run isn't effective. Teams have always stacked the line against us. Yet we were still able to get 4+ yard per carry averages. The OL has definatly taken a step back in the new blocking schemes.

The passing game is the only thing working at all for us now. What we need is to get some deep passes to really keep the defense honest. Only problem is, we can't pass protect long enough for deep passing plays to develop. It always has, and always will, come down to the OL.

Fantastic and accurate post. Could not have said it better.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by blm7754:
I agree that teams tend to stack the LOS against us, but that isn't the only reason why the run isn't effective. Teams have always stacked the line against us. Yet we were still able to get 4+ yard per carry averages. The OL has definatly taken a step back in the new blocking schemes.

The passing game is the only thing working at all for us now. What we need is to get some deep passes to really keep the defense honest. Only problem is, we can't pass protect long enough for deep passing plays to develop. It always has, and always will, come down to the OL.

Fantastic and accurate post. Could not have said it better.

All of this.

If you have a passing attack that poses a threat in the middle of the field the LB's will not be so eager to fill the gaps to shut down the run without fear of getting beat down the middle of the field.A good passing attack will make the run blitz go away.

The biggest problem, and it isn't even close, is continued poor play of the OL.

That having been said, as to the matter of running game versus passing game, I'll skip the Alex vs Frank portion of it and go to another area that is more of an issue than many seem to recognize: Receivers with speed.

Several articles are out talking about the speed of the Eagle receivers. They are fast. VERY fast. And they cause problems for everyone, and they will likely cause problems for the 49er secondary on Sunday.

In contrast, the 49er receiving corp has been focused on being sturdy blockers for a power running game rather than speedy receivers who can get open. While the Eagles were picking DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin, the 49er grabbed guys like Arnaz Battle and Joshua Morgan, two guys who block well but do not scare any secondary in the league. Michael Crabtree was highly touted for his college exploits but he has only average speed for an NFL wideout. Ted Ginn has speed but due to his receiving deficiencies he is useful only as a returner. He's exciting in that role but no one fears him the way they fear Maclin and Jackson. Vernon Davis has great speed for a TE but due to the problems with the OL he spends far too much time blocking for the only guy on the team with speed anyone would worry about, which takes us back to the OL...

Oh yes, there has been Lloyd and Williams and Williams and a few other guys in the mid to lower rounds, skittery little guys who only come into play when there is a legitimate speed threat or two on the team, and that is something that has not been here since Owens left.

This team is still a team built around power running and just a coaching change, as desirable and needed as it was, cannot change the makeup of the personnel of the team. This is still Mike Nolan/Mike Singletary's team and it will take another two years of shrewd drafting to bring in the kind of speedy offensive players who can perform at a level that will allow Harbaugh to truly bring out the Bill Walsh offense.

So now back to the Alex vs Frank discussion...if you must...

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

This team in general is hurt by line play. Teams are blitzing us and just stopping the run on the way to the qb, we don't throw enough screens or quick passes to keep them honest, which is messed up because Smith has been one of the top qbs throwing against the blitz this year. The offense is not working in general because the line is blocking poorly, which leads to the skill players not having the time to get open to make plays. You can't really blame it on the passing game when it is the only part of the offense working. You have to look no further than the offensive line to see why the offense as a whole is struggling. Bottom line everyone is responsible from the coaches to the playcallers to the players. I expect the offense to get better as the line does.

I sort of disagree here. Teams are not just blitzing on us, they are bringing more guys than we can block. It is on the QB/WR/TE to be able to execute the quick-hit one-step throws. We are not doing this because Harbaugh doesn't call it or the QB/WR/TE cannot execute it.

Bringing extra guys is blitzing homie. Or did you just mean our guys can't block the regular 3-4 pass rushers?

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
This team in general is hurt by line play. Teams are blitzing us and just stopping the run on the way to the qb, we don't throw enough screens or quick passes to keep them honest, which is messed up because Smith has been one of the top qbs throwing against the blitz this year. The offense is not working in general because the line is blocking poorly, which leads to the skill players not having the time to get open to make plays. You can't really blame it on the passing game when it is the only part of the offense working. You have to look no further than the offensive line to see why the offense as a whole is struggling. Bottom line everyone is responsible from the coaches to the playcallers to the players. I expect the offense to get better as the line does.

I sort of disagree here. Teams are not just blitzing on us, they are bringing more guys than we can block. It is on the QB/WR/TE to be able to execute the quick-hit one-step throws. We are not doing this because Harbaugh doesn't call it or the QB/WR/TE cannot execute it.

Biggest problem with one-step drops has been the inability of the center to hold his ground. Even against Cincy Goodwin was being immediately pushed back as soon as he snapped the ball. That did get a little better in the second half but most of that was on three-step drops. Again, it's the OL.

Originally posted by dj43:

The biggest problem, and it isn't even close, is continued poor play of the OL.

That having been said, as to the matter of running game versus passing game, I'll skip the Alex vs Frank portion of it and go to another area that is more of an issue than many seem to recognize: Receivers with speed.

Several articles are out talking about the speed of the Eagle receivers. They are fast. VERY fast. And they cause problems for everyone, and they will likely cause problems for the 49er secondary on Sunday.

In contrast, the 49er receiving corp has been focused on being sturdy blockers for a power running game rather than speedy receivers who can get open. While the Eagles were picking DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin, the 49er grabbed guys like Arnaz Battle and Joshua Morgan, two guys who block well but do not scare any secondary in the league. Michael Crabtree was highly touted for his college exploits but he has only average speed for an NFL wideout. Ted Ginn has speed but due to his receiving deficiencies he is useful only as a returner. He's exciting in that role but no one fears him the way they fear Maclin and Jackson. Vernon Davis has great speed for a TE but due to the problems with the OL he spends far too much time blocking for the only guy on the team with speed anyone would worry about, which takes us back to the OL...

Oh yes, there has been Lloyd and Williams and Williams and a few other guys in the mid to lower rounds, skittery little guys who only come into play when there is a legitimate speed threat or two on the team, and that is something that has not been here since Owens left.

This team is still a team built around power running and just a coaching change, as desirable and needed as it was, cannot change the makeup of the personnel of the team. This is still Mike Nolan/Mike Singletary's team and it will take another two years of shrewd drafting to bring in the kind of speedy offensive players who can perform at a level that will allow Harbaugh to truly bring out the Bill Walsh offense.

So now back to the Alex vs Frank discussion...if you must...

This is true to some extent, but Rice and Taylor were able yo get open frequently because of route running. You do not have to be fast like the eagles guys to be a threat, you just have to be able to get off the line clean and get open. Speed is a good thing, but running clean routes is overlooked by many people.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
This team in general is hurt by line play. Teams are blitzing us and just stopping the run on the way to the qb, we don't throw enough screens or quick passes to keep them honest, which is messed up because Smith has been one of the top qbs throwing against the blitz this year. The offense is not working in general because the line is blocking poorly, which leads to the skill players not having the time to get open to make plays. You can't really blame it on the passing game when it is the only part of the offense working. You have to look no further than the offensive line to see why the offense as a whole is struggling. Bottom line everyone is responsible from the coaches to the playcallers to the players. I expect the offense to get better as the line does.

I sort of disagree here. Teams are not just blitzing on us, they are bringing more guys than we can block. It is on the QB/WR/TE to be able to execute the quick-hit one-step throws. We are not doing this because Harbaugh doesn't call it or the QB/WR/TE cannot execute it.

Bringing extra guys is blitzing homie. Or did you just mean our guys can't block the regular 3-4 pass rushers?

Blitzing one guy makes 5 rushers (4-3 D) and we have 5 OL to block. Teams have, quite a few times, brought 6 rushers where there's more than we can block if the RB is on a route also. I have yet to see Alex Smith get the snap, take one step and whatever it takes, be it a jump pass or whatever, quickly throw it to the receiver who is initially left open but the ball gets there before the rotating defensive player can get there. Teams do this all the time.

I'm being patient here up to the bye week when the offense should start opening up more. I really like what is being done so far, especially with keeping Smith efficient while we grind these wins out. Harbaugh is no idiot and I am sure we will see this offense build as the season goes on. As much as we want to compare with the Raiders, that offense is in their 2nd year with Jackson.

Originally posted by Method:
I disagree with the article completely. I've seen plenty of Raiders games for the past year with Hue Jackson as their OC/ now HC. The guy says he's going to run up the middle, the defense knows it and puts 7 or 8 in the box, and they still break off huge runs. The difference is that their OL is about 100x better than ours is. It starts up front IMO.

Doesn't the article say that our issue is running the ball because of the poor OL play?