Box score: alex 9/15 and it sounded like a repeat of last yr. Then I saw the game on NFL..

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by gamechanger:
Ask Tampa Bay if Steve Young showed any flashes of being a good QB in regular season games during his stint there. It took coaching, a scheme, and time on the bench watching a HOF QB for him to accomplish all those feats you mentioned.

I love this post.

Yeah good post. Imagine if there was twitter and youtube back then.

"DUDE, WTF, can we trade this wacky eyed curly haired wannabe running back? #SteveYoungSucks"

"All you haters can suck it. This guy can be good one day. We just need better coaches. #GOBucs!

"Stevexcuses! Trade this bum. Blow this s**t up and start over. We've seen this over and over. He either has it or he doesnt. Get over it Steve Loverz. Lulz!"

"Why not give DeBerg a chance. At least he has pocket presence. He's shown me more in x games than Young running around like a buffoon."

"THis guy can't even pass for more than 54%...and hasn't had a season over 65 rating. TRAYDE HIM DOOD!" #DeBergPwns"

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by gamechanger:
Ask Tampa Bay if Steve Young showed any flashes of being a good QB in regular season games during his stint there. It took coaching, a scheme, and time on the bench watching a HOF QB for him to accomplish all those feats you mentioned.

I love this post.

Yeah good post. Imagine if there was twitter and youtube back then.

"DUDE, WTF, can we trade this wacky eyed curly haired wannabe running back? #SteveYoungSucks"

"All you haters can suck it. This guy can be good one day. We just need better coaches. #GOBucs!

"Stevexcuses! Trade this bum. Blow this s**t up and start over. We've seen this over and over. He either has it or he doesnt. Get over it Steve Loverz. Lulz!"

"Why not give DeBerg a chance. At least he has pocket presence. He's shown me more in x games than Young running around like a buffoon."

"THis guy can't even pass for more than 54%...and hasn't had a season over 65 rating. TRAYDE HIM DOOD!" #DeBergPwns"

..... so true! Great post as well !

Originally posted by oldman9er:
..... so true! Great post as well !

this.

Btw along those same lines, can you imagine if Deon Sanders was on Twitter back then (when he was a niner) i'm sure there would be lots of trash talk.

Originally posted by gamechanger:

Originally posted by midrdan:

Originally posted by 49erDynasty:
In regards to the media portrayal versus actual developments:
The Bay Area media has in many cases been very critical of our quarterbacks. Initially, Montana was underrated until he won his 3rd and then 4th championship, tying Terry Bradshaw for the highest all time. Steve Young had it the worst and in his case the fans were also extremely critical. On top of that, Eddie Debartolo was not an owner that would accept anything less than championships for long. In 1992 Steve Young had a fantastic statistical year but may have been a miserable failure at winning fan approval. In the 1992 NFC Championship game, as Joe watched from the 49er sidelines, Steve Young lost to the Cowboys at home in Candlestick Park. The 49ers needing a come from behind victory stuck with Steve through the game while the legend that fans had been accustomed to seeing pull off such victories was on the bench. The move clearly alienated the fan base and Steve Young was simply not the popular choice, if he was any choice at all. Many 49er fans did not trust or believe in him. Part of the reason for this was that in the late 80's and onwards, Steve was perceived as an unworthy competitor to Joe. He was not perceived as being cool under pressure and people feared that he was ultimately not a winning quarterback. Joe was traded the subsequent year to cement Steve's position as the #1 quarterback amidst great criticism from fans and writers. That year Steve went on to have another great statistical year but lost to the Cowboys again. For many fans, that was the last straw. The voices that wanted Steve traded instead of Joe became louder. By many, he was declared a loser while Joe, the perennial winner and legend, was perceived to be supplanted by the the 2nd string failure. In 1994, despite a completely revamped defense, Steve Young could not defeat Joe Montana and the Chiefs. Many 49er fans openly cheered for Joe to defeat Steve and spite the 49er franchise for selecting a "loser" over a proven winner. The 49ers were also blown out by the inferior Eagles. But then things eventually turned around to the point where Steve overcame his demons to lead SF over the Cowboys and to a Super Bowl victory.

The lesson from that aspect of history may be that some players can eventually rise to occasion and become winners with improvements to other areas of the team. It may take a better coaching staff like when Steve had Mike Shannahan or a better defense when they acquired Deion Sanders amongst other greats, but with certain improvements perceptions can change. Despite having Rice, Taylor, Jones, Watters, Sapolu, Barton and others forming the greatest offensive arsenal, Steve could not defeat the Cowboys until he had a dangerous defense with one of the greatest secondaries in history. In Alex Smith's case, he does not have even one proven league leading player, let alone a former Super Bowl MVP and now GOAT, like Jerry. The coaching staff was not guided by great coaches like George Seifert, Mike Shannahan, Ray Rhodes, Bobb McKittrick and others. With a better coaching staff, continuous infusion of new talent and upgrades across the board, there is no telling what Alex Smith's ceiling can be. Many wrote off Steve Young after years of failure. There are still some that will say that Joe could have reached the 5th championship sooner and there was no true purpose to retaining Steve. Then again, success has shown to come in different packages with an ever unique array of story lines. Not every player will lead the drive culminating with "The Catch" and then go on to four Super Bowl Championships. Some, like Steve Young will face much failure despite some of the greatest casts of players and coaches supporting him, to eventually become a champion. Others may have neither the great coaches nor the all world players and face adversity. As the coaches and players evolve to a higher level of performance, so may that quarterback and team. Alex Smith's refined performance, the new coaching staff, and the coming roster improvements may suggest that such a change is more likely than it has been in the last several years.

Steve Young was criticized for not winning super bowls. He was the league MVP, put up historically accurate numbers, and athletically was as gifted as any QB this side of Mike Vick. He showed flashes of being a pro bowl QB since coming into the league (the run against the Vikings is legendary, but he also led the 49ers to some big wins in 1988), but yes, it took him a number of years before he developed into a HOF player.

Alex Smith is criticized for not winning regular season games. He lacks accuracy, a big arm, and a feel for the game. He has shown flashes of being an average QB since coming into the league but aside from the Seattle game 4 years ago I can't recall ever watching him and thinking that he possesses the talent to be a pro bowl player.

Ask Tampa Bay if Steve Young showed any flashes of being a good QB in regular season games during his stint there. It took coaching, a scheme, and time on the bench watching a HOF QB for him to accomplish all those feats you mentioned.

While playing in the USFL, Steve Young became the first professional QB to throw for 300 yards and rush for 100 yards in a game. He signed with Tampa Bay and played two years - compiling horrible stats and a losing record. In 1987, first year with the 49ers, substituting for an injured Montana threw 4 TD passes against the Bears, winning 41 to 0. In 1988 - the famous 50 yard run against the Vikings. In 1989 - 69% completion percentage, 8 TDs and 3 INTs, a perfect 158.3 rating against the Patriots, in a back up role. In 4 years as Montana's back up he threw 23 TDs and 6 INTs. The guy could play right off the bat.

Yes, in 2 years at Tampa Steve Young sucked. But before Tampa and certainly after Tampa (immediately ... not years and years after learning from Montana) he displayed flashes of greatness. Alex Smith - no flashes. Now, maybe Alex will develop under this scheme and become a reliable QB. But his ceiling is nowhere near as high as Steve Young's was.

Originally posted by midrdan:
While playing in the USFL, Steve Young became the first professional QB to throw for 300 yards and rush for 100 yards in a game. He signed with Tampa Bay and played two years - compiling horrible stats and a losing record. In 1987, first year with the 49ers, substituting for an injured Montana threw 4 TD passes against the Bears, winning 41 to 0. In 1988 - the famous 50 yard run against the Vikings. In 1989 - 69% completion percentage, 8 TDs and 3 INTs, a perfect 158.3 rating against the Patriots, in a back up role. In 4 years as Montana's back up he threw 23 TDs and 6 INTs. The guy could play right off the bat.

Yes, in 2 years at Tampa Steve Young sucked. But before Tampa and certainly after Tampa (immediately ... not years and years after learning from Montana) he displayed flashes of greatness. Alex Smith - no flashes. Now, maybe Alex will develop under this scheme and become a reliable QB. But his ceiling is nowhere near as high as Steve Young's was.

No one knows what Smith's ceiling is, we can only speculate about that. Additionally, putting up good stats in the USFL is not like putting up stats in the NFL. I am old enough to remember those games, they were like exhibition football man, even the best USFL team would have gotten smoked by the worst NFL team.

Originally posted by midrdan:

Originally posted by gamechanger:

Originally posted by midrdan:

Originally posted by 49erDynasty:
In regards to the media portrayal versus actual developments:
The Bay Area media has in many cases been very critical of our quarterbacks. Initially, Montana was underrated until he won his 3rd and then 4th championship, tying Terry Bradshaw for the highest all time. Steve Young had it the worst and in his case the fans were also extremely critical. On top of that, Eddie Debartolo was not an owner that would accept anything less than championships for long. In 1992 Steve Young had a fantastic statistical year but may have been a miserable failure at winning fan approval. In the 1992 NFC Championship game, as Joe watched from the 49er sidelines, Steve Young lost to the Cowboys at home in Candlestick Park. The 49ers needing a come from behind victory stuck with Steve through the game while the legend that fans had been accustomed to seeing pull off such victories was on the bench. The move clearly alienated the fan base and Steve Young was simply not the popular choice, if he was any choice at all. Many 49er fans did not trust or believe in him. Part of the reason for this was that in the late 80's and onwards, Steve was perceived as an unworthy competitor to Joe. He was not perceived as being cool under pressure and people feared that he was ultimately not a winning quarterback. Joe was traded the subsequent year to cement Steve's position as the #1 quarterback amidst great criticism from fans and writers. That year Steve went on to have another great statistical year but lost to the Cowboys again. For many fans, that was the last straw. The voices that wanted Steve traded instead of Joe became louder. By many, he was declared a loser while Joe, the perennial winner and legend, was perceived to be supplanted by the the 2nd string failure. In 1994, despite a completely revamped defense, Steve Young could not defeat Joe Montana and the Chiefs. Many 49er fans openly cheered for Joe to defeat Steve and spite the 49er franchise for selecting a "loser" over a proven winner. The 49ers were also blown out by the inferior Eagles. But then things eventually turned around to the point where Steve overcame his demons to lead SF over the Cowboys and to a Super Bowl victory.

The lesson from that aspect of history may be that some players can eventually rise to occasion and become winners with improvements to other areas of the team. It may take a better coaching staff like when Steve had Mike Shannahan or a better defense when they acquired Deion Sanders amongst other greats, but with certain improvements perceptions can change. Despite having Rice, Taylor, Jones, Watters, Sapolu, Barton and others forming the greatest offensive arsenal, Steve could not defeat the Cowboys until he had a dangerous defense with one of the greatest secondaries in history. In Alex Smith's case, he does not have even one proven league leading player, let alone a former Super Bowl MVP and now GOAT, like Jerry. The coaching staff was not guided by great coaches like George Seifert, Mike Shannahan, Ray Rhodes, Bobb McKittrick and others. With a better coaching staff, continuous infusion of new talent and upgrades across the board, there is no telling what Alex Smith's ceiling can be. Many wrote off Steve Young after years of failure. There are still some that will say that Joe could have reached the 5th championship sooner and there was no true purpose to retaining Steve. Then again, success has shown to come in different packages with an ever unique array of story lines. Not every player will lead the drive culminating with "The Catch" and then go on to four Super Bowl Championships. Some, like Steve Young will face much failure despite some of the greatest casts of players and coaches supporting him, to eventually become a champion. Others may have neither the great coaches nor the all world players and face adversity. As the coaches and players evolve to a higher level of performance, so may that quarterback and team. Alex Smith's refined performance, the new coaching staff, and the coming roster improvements may suggest that such a change is more likely than it has been in the last several years.

Steve Young was criticized for not winning super bowls. He was the league MVP, put up historically accurate numbers, and athletically was as gifted as any QB this side of Mike Vick. He showed flashes of being a pro bowl QB since coming into the league (the run against the Vikings is legendary, but he also led the 49ers to some big wins in 1988), but yes, it took him a number of years before he developed into a HOF player.

Alex Smith is criticized for not winning regular season games. He lacks accuracy, a big arm, and a feel for the game. He has shown flashes of being an average QB since coming into the league but aside from the Seattle game 4 years ago I can't recall ever watching him and thinking that he possesses the talent to be a pro bowl player.

Ask Tampa Bay if Steve Young showed any flashes of being a good QB in regular season games during his stint there. It took coaching, a scheme, and time on the bench watching a HOF QB for him to accomplish all those feats you mentioned.

While playing in the USFL, Steve Young became the first professional QB to throw for 300 yards and rush for 100 yards in a game. He signed with Tampa Bay and played two years - compiling horrible stats and a losing record. In 1987, first year with the 49ers, substituting for an injured Montana threw 4 TD passes against the Bears, winning 41 to 0. In 1988 - the famous 50 yard run against the Vikings. In 1989 - 69% completion percentage, 8 TDs and 3 INTs, a perfect 158.3 rating against the Patriots, in a back up role. In 4 years as Montana's back up he threw 23 TDs and 6 INTs. The guy could play right off the bat.

Yes, in 2 years at Tampa Steve Young sucked. But before Tampa and certainly after Tampa (immediately ... not years and years after learning from Montana) he displayed flashes of greatness. Alex Smith - no flashes. Now, maybe Alex will develop under this scheme and become a reliable QB. But his ceiling is nowhere near as high as Steve Young's was.

Wait a minute so you're saying the coaching and team around Steve Young had nothing to do with his performance? Please explain how he was able to do what he did with the 9ers but wasn't able to do with the bucs? I see what you're doing but it doesn't add up. Pull up Alex's stats from Utah and you can make the same argument.

Originally posted by gamechanger:
Ask Tampa Bay if Steve Young showed any flashes of being a good QB in regular season games during his stint there. It took coaching, a scheme, and time on the bench watching a HOF QB for him to accomplish all those feats you mentioned.

Yes Young did show flashes in TB, that's why Walsh traded for him... I don't see Walsh trading for a player otherwise.

Oh and who was the backup to Montana before Young? Anyone? Anyone?

According to some of you guys, any QB could have succeeded and became a HOF pro bowl QB in Walsh's system. It didn't matter the QBs talents?

Why didn't Walsh just draft a guy to mold or obtain one through F/A? Do you guys think Jeff George would have made it in SF? No f**king way. Because not everyone with an arm is a good QB. Walsh sniffed out Young's talents and went after him.

I see what you guys are saying. Give Alex Smith a chance in a good system with some continuity and he could be like Young or Montana.
IMO, I seriously doubt Smith would have succeeded in Walsh's system either and can ever be anywhere close to Montana or Young even if put in the right situation.

Originally posted by MadMoneyMarshall:
Didn't read lol

Me either. Even the title was too long.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Yes Young did show flashes in TB, that's why Walsh traded for him... I don't see Walsh trading for a player otherwise.

Oh and who was the backup to Montana before Young? Anyone? Anyone?

According to some of you guys, any QB could have succeeded and became a HOF pro bowl QB in Walsh's system. It didn't matter the QBs talents?

Why didn't Walsh just draft a guy to mold or obtain one through F/A? Do you guys think Jeff George would have made it in SF? No f**king way. Because not everyone with an arm is a good QB. Walsh sniffed out Young's talents and went after him.

I see what you guys are saying. Give Alex Smith a chance in a good system with some continuity and he could be like Young or Montana.
IMO, I seriously doubt Smith would have succeeded in Walsh's system either and can ever be anywhere close to Montana or Young even if put in the right situation.

Jeff Kemp was the backup in 86 and did a pretty good job over a six or seven game span when Montana went down with the back injury. Before that Matt Cavanaugh had some good games when asked to fill in for Montana. After that, both Bono and Grbac had some success in the Walsh's system. QB's had a tendency to look good when playing for the Niners in the 80s and 90s. Were the others as talented as Montana and Young? Of course not. But they did have success.

Walsh saw something in Young and all credit to him for that. But isn't that the same thing Harbaugh is saying? He see's something in Smith.

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Yes Young did show flashes in TB, that's why Walsh traded for him... I don't see Walsh trading for a player otherwise.

Oh and who was the backup to Montana before Young? Anyone? Anyone?

According to some of you guys, any QB could have succeeded and became a HOF pro bowl QB in Walsh's system. It didn't matter the QBs talents?

Why didn't Walsh just draft a guy to mold or obtain one through F/A? Do you guys think Jeff George would have made it in SF? No f**king way. Because not everyone with an arm is a good QB. Walsh sniffed out Young's talents and went after him.

I see what you guys are saying. Give Alex Smith a chance in a good system with some continuity and he could be like Young or Montana.
IMO, I seriously doubt Smith would have succeeded in Walsh's system either and can ever be anywhere close to Montana or Young even if put in the right situation.

Jeff Kemp was the backup in 86 and did a pretty good job over a six or seven game span when Montana went down with the back injury. Before that Matt Cavanaugh had some good games when asked to fill in for Montana. After that, both Bono and Grbac had some success in the Walsh's system. QB's had a tendency to look good when playing for the Niners in the 80s and 90s. Were the others as talented as Montana and Young? Of course not. But they did have success.

Walsh saw something in Young and all credit to him for that. But isn't that the same thing Harbaugh is saying? He see's something in Smith?

Thats one view. My view is that we are both right. Bono and Grbac did have success in Walsh's offense. This is the type of success i believe Smith can have and I think Harbaugh feels the same. But, are we looking for a Bono or Grbac or do we want a Young or Montana? Hence the one year deal and drafting Kaep.

We don't really know what he's thinking. We can observe and speculate, that's all.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Thats one view. My view is that we are both right. Bono and Grbac did have success in Walsh's offense. This is the type of success i believe Smith can have and I think Harbaugh feels the same. But, are we looking for a Bono or Grbac or do we want a Young or Montana? Hence the one year deal and drafting Kaep.

We don't really know what he's thinking. We can observe and speculate, that's all.

That's what we are here for, right? I was really responding to the part where you said you doubted whether Smith would have succeeded under Walsh. I guess what you are talking about is the degree of success. I also doubt that Smith will ever be Montana or Young. But it is just a hard fact that top 10 all-time QB's just don't come around every day. We may have to wait a very long time for another Montana or Young.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Alex wasn't the biggest story of sat. game......it was the two dumb Oakmeal fans getting what they got for messing with the niner faithful.....hahahahaha Fu** with us!!!!!!

two people getting shot isn't exactly something to joke about, especially when it takes away our right to tailgate after the game starts.

Bro these are Oakland fans........you act like they were angles in the league...I wasnt joking......I think everyone can say that they are the rudest, most annoying, and obnoxious fans in the league......they werent walking along and someone shot them......no they were mouthing off, like Raider fans always do......yea we didnt have shoot them but hey it happend......them getting shot wasnt the whole story.....how it led up to that point is what I want to know about......Im sorry and I feel bad for the families of the two......but lets get real, it wasnt all on the 49er fan.....It never is, when it come to Raider fans.....come on bro.....and I wasnt joking.....

Originally posted by 80849er4life:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Alex wasn't the biggest story of sat. game......it was the two dumb Oakmeal fans getting what they got for messing with the niner faithful.....hahahahaha Fu** with us!!!!!!

two people getting shot isn't exactly something to joke about, especially when it takes away our right to tailgate after the game starts.

Bro these are Oakland fans........you act like they were angles in the league...I wasnt joking......I think everyone can say that they are the rudest, most annoying, and obnoxious fans in the league......they werent walking along and someone shot them......no they were mouthing off, like Raider fans always do......yea we didnt have shoot them but hey it happend......them getting shot wasnt the whole story.....how it led up to that point is what I want to know about......Im sorry and I feel bad for the families of the two......but lets get real, it wasnt all on the 49er fan.....It never is, when it come to Raider fans.....come on bro.....and I wasnt joking.....

From what I have seen on the news, it was raider on raider violence in the shooting. Most likely gang related having little to do with football other than they happened to be at the football game. If I am incorrect someone please fill me in, I would hate to think one of our fans would be such a moron as to shoot another human being over something as trivial as a football game.

Originally posted by 80849er4life:

Bro these are Oakland fans........you act like they were angles in the league...I wasnt joking......I think everyone can say that they are the rudest, most annoying, and obnoxious fans in the league......they werent walking along and someone shot them......no they were mouthing off, like Raider fans always do......yea we didnt have shoot them but hey it happend......them getting shot wasnt the whole story.....how it led up to that point is what I want to know about......Im sorry and I feel bad for the families of the two......but lets get real, it wasnt all on the 49er fan.....It never is, when it come to Raider fans.....come on bro.....and I wasnt joking.....

lvtent?

Originally posted by Howlett:

Originally posted by MadMoneyMarshall:
Didn't read lol

Me either. Even the title was too long.

this