Did we upgrade the secondary?

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:
I don't think so, Whitner may be the best signing for the secondary but nothing too special. The CBs are still a problem I mean Carlos Rogers isn't much better than Clements and Spencer is average. The niners didn't really improve the secondary they just filled spots and still don't have enough depth. There's no upgrade they just grabbed rentals to fill the spots.

lol. rogers murders clements cover skills. and whitner lead the nfl in tackes outside of linebackers. no matter what we upgraded

Rogers also couldn't catch a cold and came from a defense that ranked 31st in pass defense and while Clements was burned a lot at least he's good enough to be a pro bowler. Like I said Whitner was the best signing for the secondary but he's not a playmaker either. If anything the secondary is the same. The upgrades were Braylon Edwards and Jonathan Goodwin thats it.

Well i sure hope your wrong bout secondary! And agree 100% but goodwin and edwards are definit bounuses and upgrades!

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:
I don't think so, Whitner may be the best signing for the secondary but nothing too special. The CBs are still a problem I mean Carlos Rogers isn't much better than Clements and Spencer is average. The niners didn't really improve the secondary they just filled spots and still don't have enough depth. There's no upgrade they just grabbed rentals to fill the spots.

lol. rogers murders clements cover skills. and whitner lead the nfl in tackes outside of linebackers. no matter what we upgraded

Rogers also couldn't catch a cold and came from a defense that ranked 31st in pass defense and while Clements was burned a lot at least he's good enough to be a pro bowler. Like I said Whitner was the best signing for the secondary but he's not a playmaker either. If anything the secondary is the same. The upgrades were Braylon Edwards and Jonathan Goodwin thats it.

lol Clements made 1 pro bowl in 2004 for the Buffalo Bills. he wasnt a pro bowl caliber player. he used to be above average, but the last 2-3 years hes been awful. he became a liability. he was literally worth an entire loss by himself just for that ATL game. go down to a knee, and we win. but he chooses to be a retard and try to run one back, and loses the ball.

Rogers might not be a great CB, but hes an upgrade on Clements at this point. Clements was so bad they were talking about moving him to S.

We lost crappy old Clements, and gained Rogers, Whitner, and Williams, plus we still have Spencer. i dont see how anyone could say we didnt upgrade the secondary. its hard to sign 3 guys and not upgrade a unit that was awful to begin with.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:
I don't think so, Whitner may be the best signing for the secondary but nothing too special. The CBs are still a problem I mean Carlos Rogers isn't much better than Clements and Spencer is average. The niners didn't really improve the secondary they just filled spots and still don't have enough depth. There's no upgrade they just grabbed rentals to fill the spots.

lol. rogers murders clements cover skills. and whitner lead the nfl in tackes outside of linebackers. no matter what we upgraded

Rogers also couldn't catch a cold and came from a defense that ranked 31st in pass defense and while Clements was burned a lot at least he's good enough to be a pro bowler. Like I said Whitner was the best signing for the secondary but he's not a playmaker either. If anything the secondary is the same. The upgrades were Braylon Edwards and Jonathan Goodwin thats it.

lol Clements made 1 pro bowl in 2004 for the Buffalo Bills. he wasnt a pro bowl caliber player. he used to be above average, but the last 2-3 years hes been awful. he became a liability. he was literally worth an entire loss by himself just for that ATL game. go down to a knee, and we win. but he chooses to be a retard and try to run one back, and loses the ball.

Rogers might not be a great CB, but hes an upgrade on Clements at this point. Clements was so bad they were talking about moving him to S.

We lost crappy old Clements, and gained Rogers, Whitner, and Williams, plus we still have Spencer. i dont see how anyone could say we didnt upgrade the secondary. its hard to sign 3 guys and not upgrade a unit that was awful to begin with.

thats more than Rogers can say right? I know Clements was awful he intercepted the ball and had it stripped within seconds costing us a game.

We have to see this team play first, because while the pass defense may be marginally better the run defense got worse that was Clements' redeeming quality. So I'm hesitant to say the new secondary will be as effective against the run because we can expect the Pass D not to be great this season. Maybe all 3 perform well but we also have to remember Williams and Rogers got 1 year deals for a reason.

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Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:
I don't think so, Whitner may be the best signing for the secondary but nothing too special. The CBs are still a problem I mean Carlos Rogers isn't much better than Clements and Spencer is average. The niners didn't really improve the secondary they just filled spots and still don't have enough depth. There's no upgrade they just grabbed rentals to fill the spots.

lol. rogers murders clements cover skills. and whitner lead the nfl in tackes outside of linebackers. no matter what we upgraded

Rogers also couldn't catch a cold and came from a defense that ranked 31st in pass defense and while Clements was burned a lot at least he's good enough to be a pro bowler. Like I said Whitner was the best signing for the secondary but he's not a playmaker either. If anything the secondary is the same. The upgrades were Braylon Edwards and Jonathan Goodwin thats it.

lol Clements made 1 pro bowl in 2004 for the Buffalo Bills. he wasnt a pro bowl caliber player. he used to be above average, but the last 2-3 years hes been awful. he became a liability. he was literally worth an entire loss by himself just for that ATL game. go down to a knee, and we win. but he chooses to be a retard and try to run one back, and loses the ball.

Rogers might not be a great CB, but hes an upgrade on Clements at this point. Clements was so bad they were talking about moving him to S.

We lost crappy old Clements, and gained Rogers, Whitner, and Williams, plus we still have Spencer. i dont see how anyone could say we didnt upgrade the secondary. its hard to sign 3 guys and not upgrade a unit that was awful to begin with.

thats more than Rogers can say right? I know Clements was awful he intercepted the ball and had it stripped within seconds costing us a game.

We have to see this team play first, because while the pass defense may be marginally better the run defense got worse that was Clements' redeeming quality. So I'm hesitant to say the new secondary will be as effective against the run because we can expect the Pass D not to be great this season. Maybe all 3 perform well but we also have to remember Williams and Rogers got 1 year deals for a reason.

People hold this against him way more than they should. Sure, he should've covered up and either taken it to the house or taken it for a turnover, but had he not gotten that pick to begin with, we would've lost. If he'd knocked it down we would've lost. Even picking it and bringing it back 30 yards, or whatever, was still good for our team. We were going to lose if it weren't for Clements and he only gave us a slightly better chance with that play. It shouldn't be held so heavily against him.

2010 safetys: goldson and Mays.
2011 safetys: goldson and whitner

Upgrade

I think Rogers is an upgrade from Clements.
I like what I'm hearing about culliver. Sounds like he could take over for Spencer at some point soon.

Anyone know any 3rd round cb's that have become dominant players? Just curious?

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:
I don't think so, Whitner may be the best signing for the secondary but nothing too special. The CBs are still a problem I mean Carlos Rogers isn't much better than Clements and Spencer is average. The niners didn't really improve the secondary they just filled spots and still don't have enough depth. There's no upgrade they just grabbed rentals to fill the spots.

lol. rogers murders clements cover skills. and whitner lead the nfl in tackes outside of linebackers. no matter what we upgraded

Rogers also couldn't catch a cold and came from a defense that ranked 31st in pass defense and while Clements was burned a lot at least he's good enough to be a pro bowler. Like I said Whitner was the best signing for the secondary but he's not a playmaker either. If anything the secondary is the same. The upgrades were Braylon Edwards and Jonathan Goodwin thats it.

lol Clements made 1 pro bowl in 2004 for the Buffalo Bills. he wasnt a pro bowl caliber player. he used to be above average, but the last 2-3 years hes been awful. he became a liability. he was literally worth an entire loss by himself just for that ATL game. go down to a knee, and we win. but he chooses to be a retard and try to run one back, and loses the ball.

Rogers might not be a great CB, but hes an upgrade on Clements at this point. Clements was so bad they were talking about moving him to S.

We lost crappy old Clements, and gained Rogers, Whitner, and Williams, plus we still have Spencer. i dont see how anyone could say we didnt upgrade the secondary. its hard to sign 3 guys and not upgrade a unit that was awful to begin with.

thats more than Rogers can say right? I know Clements was awful he intercepted the ball and had it stripped within seconds costing us a game.

We have to see this team play first, because while the pass defense may be marginally better the run defense got worse that was Clements' redeeming quality. So I'm hesitant to say the new secondary will be as effective against the run because we can expect the Pass D not to be great this season. Maybe all 3 perform well but we also have to remember Williams and Rogers got 1 year deals for a reason.

everyone got 1 year deals this offseason. the new CBA made things different. its not like were the only team giving out 1 year trial contracts. this offseason was really weird, and nobody has had time to read into the new process, so everyone is getting 1 year deals to give a cushion of time where teams can figure out how its all going to work, and then be more prepared to give out longer term money.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:
I don't think so, Whitner may be the best signing for the secondary but nothing too special. The CBs are still a problem I mean Carlos Rogers isn't much better than Clements and Spencer is average. The niners didn't really improve the secondary they just filled spots and still don't have enough depth. There's no upgrade they just grabbed rentals to fill the spots.

lol. rogers murders clements cover skills. and whitner lead the nfl in tackes outside of linebackers. no matter what we upgraded

Rogers also couldn't catch a cold and came from a defense that ranked 31st in pass defense and while Clements was burned a lot at least he's good enough to be a pro bowler. Like I said Whitner was the best signing for the secondary but he's not a playmaker either. If anything the secondary is the same. The upgrades were Braylon Edwards and Jonathan Goodwin thats it.

lol Clements made 1 pro bowl in 2004 for the Buffalo Bills. he wasnt a pro bowl caliber player. he used to be above average, but the last 2-3 years hes been awful. he became a liability. he was literally worth an entire loss by himself just for that ATL game. go down to a knee, and we win. but he chooses to be a retard and try to run one back, and loses the ball.

Rogers might not be a great CB, but hes an upgrade on Clements at this point. Clements was so bad they were talking about moving him to S.

We lost crappy old Clements, and gained Rogers, Whitner, and Williams, plus we still have Spencer. i dont see how anyone could say we didnt upgrade the secondary. its hard to sign 3 guys and not upgrade a unit that was awful to begin with.

thats more than Rogers can say right? I know Clements was awful he intercepted the ball and had it stripped within seconds costing us a game.

We have to see this team play first, because while the pass defense may be marginally better the run defense got worse that was Clements' redeeming quality. So I'm hesitant to say the new secondary will be as effective against the run because we can expect the Pass D not to be great this season. Maybe all 3 perform well but we also have to remember Williams and Rogers got 1 year deals for a reason.

everyone got 1 year deals this offseason. the new CBA made things different. its not like were the only team giving out 1 year trial contracts. this offseason was really weird, and nobody has had time to read into the new process, so everyone is getting 1 year deals to give a cushion of time where teams can figure out how its all going to work, and then be more prepared to give out longer term money.

it just worries me that if people have solid years that they will bail out instead of be willing to sign a long term contract with us

Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:
I don't think so, Whitner may be the best signing for the secondary but nothing too special. The CBs are still a problem I mean Carlos Rogers isn't much better than Clements and Spencer is average. The niners didn't really improve the secondary they just filled spots and still don't have enough depth. There's no upgrade they just grabbed rentals to fill the spots.

lol. rogers murders clements cover skills. and whitner lead the nfl in tackes outside of linebackers. no matter what we upgraded

Rogers also couldn't catch a cold and came from a defense that ranked 31st in pass defense and while Clements was burned a lot at least he's good enough to be a pro bowler. Like I said Whitner was the best signing for the secondary but he's not a playmaker either. If anything the secondary is the same. The upgrades were Braylon Edwards and Jonathan Goodwin thats it.

lol Clements made 1 pro bowl in 2004 for the Buffalo Bills. he wasnt a pro bowl caliber player. he used to be above average, but the last 2-3 years hes been awful. he became a liability. he was literally worth an entire loss by himself just for that ATL game. go down to a knee, and we win. but he chooses to be a retard and try to run one back, and loses the ball.

Rogers might not be a great CB, but hes an upgrade on Clements at this point. Clements was so bad they were talking about moving him to S.

We lost crappy old Clements, and gained Rogers, Whitner, and Williams, plus we still have Spencer. i dont see how anyone could say we didnt upgrade the secondary. its hard to sign 3 guys and not upgrade a unit that was awful to begin with.

thats more than Rogers can say right? I know Clements was awful he intercepted the ball and had it stripped within seconds costing us a game.

We have to see this team play first, because while the pass defense may be marginally better the run defense got worse that was Clements' redeeming quality. So I'm hesitant to say the new secondary will be as effective against the run because we can expect the Pass D not to be great this season. Maybe all 3 perform well but we also have to remember Williams and Rogers got 1 year deals for a reason.

everyone got 1 year deals this offseason. the new CBA made things different. its not like were the only team giving out 1 year trial contracts. this offseason was really weird, and nobody has had time to read into the new process, so everyone is getting 1 year deals to give a cushion of time where teams can figure out how its all going to work, and then be more prepared to give out longer term money.

it just worries me that if people have solid years that they will bail out instead of be willing to sign a long term contract with us

its an equal risk for them as well. if they flame out, we can just send them packing and not be stuck. ultimately i dont think anyone we signed is going to become a superstar that we couldnt bring back under reasonable terms.

Yes I think we did

Clements for Rogers sounds like a draw at this point.

Whitner is an upgrade at SS, though.

So, yes, we did upgrade the secondary. But not by much. We still don't have a playmaker, so I doubt most fans will even notice.

Remember last year's defense was on the field forever it seemed. Part of this was the famed bend-but-don't-break conservative defense and the other was the even more beloved three-and-out conservative offense.

This year we can expect a more aggressive defensive system and an offense that holds onto the ball for awhile and gives the D a rest now and then.

This will help whatever talent level there is and we can expect better results.

the most important upgrade we made was scheme. its no secret that we are going to blitz and blitz a lot. it will force opposing qbs to get rid of the ball quickly, effectively cutting down the time our cbs have to cover. for the last few years our corners have been left on islands in no mans land covering for upto 10 seconds at times. any corner is going to fail when asked to cover for that long. they are also going to fail when they give 10-15 yd cushions allowing the opposition to just pick us apart. i guess the thought process here was, we arent giving up the big play and we will wait for them to make a mistake. I hate that style of thinking and believe fangio does too.

Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:
the most important upgrade we made was scheme. its no secret that we are going to blitz and blitz a lot. it will force opposing qbs to get rid of the ball quickly, effectively cutting down the time our cbs have to cover. for the last few years our corners have been left on islands in no mans land covering for upto 10 seconds at times. any corner is going to fail when asked to cover for that long. they are also going to fail when they give 10-15 yd cushions allowing the opposition to just pick us apart. i guess the thought process here was, we arent giving up the big play and we will wait for them to make a mistake. I hate that style of thinking and believe fangio does too.

in maunskys defense we waited for a team to make mistakes. in fangios defense we are going to force mistakes!

Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:

Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:
the most important upgrade we made was scheme. its no secret that we are going to blitz and blitz a lot. it will force opposing qbs to get rid of the ball quickly, effectively cutting down the time our cbs have to cover. for the last few years our corners have been left on islands in no mans land covering for upto 10 seconds at times. any corner is going to fail when asked to cover for that long. they are also going to fail when they give 10-15 yd cushions allowing the opposition to just pick us apart. i guess the thought process here was, we arent giving up the big play and we will wait for them to make a mistake. I hate that style of thinking and believe fangio does too.

in maunskys defense we waited for a team to make mistakes. in fangios defense we are going to force mistakes!

Ahh, the self-quote. Good stuff, and in consequtive posts! THAT is some impressive post-whoring!