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The Official Harbaugh Era QB competition!

Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by bigmike55:
When has Alex Smith ever had a "great" year??? history will repeat itself and Alex will struggle once again. He has shown time and time again that he does not have what it takes to be great in this league. He is barely mediocre... For a number one overall draft pick that supposed to be our franchise guy, Alex Smith has proven he is a bust.

I see this web zone hoping that he will finally get it and turn things around year after year, saying this is his breakout year... He has a good head coach now, he has the same coordinator for two consecutive years... Blah blah blah... Wake up people! It's Alex Smith we're talking about! This will be his 7th year and he hasn't done squat!! Matt maiocco said it best in his recent article, the only reason Alex Smith is still hanging around is because of this damn lockout.

There are two reasons not to go with you on your assumptions: 1) We see things differently as the OCs, HCs, systems, injuries, and inept line and WRs actually are factors in Smith's failure; 2) Giving up is not a good plan for next year if you are a fan. I would rather hope for the best and will not be in dispair if it doesn't happen.

Smith is hanging around because Harbaugh doesn't want to start a rookie or David Carr, not because of the lockout. FAs are out there but there is no gaurantee that they are better than Smith and why not do both--keep Smith and bring in a good FA? Your negativity leads no where except change for the sake of change...not a plan for improvement.

Keep thinking that.

The only reason why Alex is still here is because of the lockout. That is the ONLY reason.

To some, Alex will never be at fault for his poor play. It will always be someone else's fault.

He is the only QB in NFL history to have a bad line, bad coaching, bad team, etc.

Thank you for giving me permission to think what I wish...it means a lot! As for your other points...
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
Hypothetically speaking, I could be the 49ers QB in 2012.

Yeah according to some members here, Bill Walsh could have made a bunch of rag tag zoners into a super bowl team with good coaching.

At some point, physical and mental football skills have something to do with how far you can go. Smith doesn't have it. Its clear by his putrid W/L record and even stinkier stats.

Yeah its a team sport, but a team is only as strong as its weak links. In the offense, you can clearly point to weak links. Kwame Harris, Sing, Raye, Rachal, AD, Alex Smith have all shown signs of being a weak link.

Sing was fired, Raye was fired, Rachal is gone, Kwame is gone,and AD will get a few more chances. What more is needed for people to see that A. Smith isn't a very good QB?

Independent of the team, the QB has the most chances in the game to make plays to help us win. A. Smith hasn't done that for us, EVER.





Uh oh you forgot how awesome Smith looked in the last game. Youre gonna be accused of inciting too. Theres to much reality with what you posted. Please dont do it again k thanx

Actually the center is more important as he touches the ball several times a game more than the QB. Have you ever wondered why some coaches win where ever (and who ever) they coach but others never win consistently? Must be the QBs.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jul 6, 2011 at 6:02 PM ]
Ideally, you'd want him on a 2-year deal with either a void clause in there, or the undisclosed plan to eventually trade him if they think Kaepernick is ready in year two.

I think Kaep needs more than a year to sit and learn and gradually be worked in, in my opinion. So for me, my hope would be that Alex signs a two-year deal and plays well enough both years for us to be in contention, and then leaves and Kaepernick takes over in his 3rd year.

What probably happens is Alex gets a one-year deal and then gets a major deal elsewhere if successful. If Alex wants his best interest in mind, he'll take a one-year deal because he can decide what to do after the season ends. If he's under contract for two, he could get traded to a place he doesn't want to go.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Jul 6, 2011 at 6:24 PM ]
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
I've read this book every year for the last 5 years. The ending is still the same.
No it isn't. Nolan and Sing and their incompetent band of coaches are gone. THAT is what was here for 5 years with very little change.

If that is your position, then why waste the time and money to hire Harbaugh. If it was all about the quarterback, then Harbaugh is a waste. He won't be able to do any more with Kaep than Nolan/Sing did with Troy, Alex, Carr, Rattay, JTO, and friends.

Question...

During Nolan and Sing's reign....All the QB's that we have seen on this roster over 6 years. Were any of them quality players?

You can crap on Nolan and Sing as much as you want...but the QB's that were either signed, traded for or drafted have all been sub par. Bad coaching has nothing to do with it. If you're a poor QB, you're a poor QB.

Question to you...

Explain the case of Steve Young? He was God-awful until he had a good coach and better talent around him, why do you think that was?

You couldn't even answer my question.

As far as Steve Young....I'm NOT of the opinion that the difference between a poor QB and a good one is coaching. No frigging way.

Comparing Steve's 16 or so games on one of the worst NFL teams in history to Alex's 60 or so games is blasphemous and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I guess the difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning was coaching, huh? Yall kill me.

Man that is absolutely ridiculous J, you should be ashamed to not see that coaching can most definitely help a QB. Hell my little sister knows that and she picks teams because she likes the color of their uniforms.


"Man that is absolutely ridiculous J, you should be ashamed to not see that coaching can most definitely help a QB. Hell my little sister knows that and she picks teams because she likes the color of their uniforms."

True, coaching helps. That's indisputable. But, the limiting reagent can still be the player himself. How confident are you that Hue Jackson is going to "unlock the potential" of Jason Campbell across the Bay and turn him into an All-Pro? Did Steve Mariucci ever help Joey Harrington achieve his destiny?

Alex certainly says all the right things and has all the physical attributes to succeed. However, I think he's too cerebral for his own good. I am doubtful that any amount of "better coaching" will actually teach somebody to stop overthinking and play instinctively. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Although he is a former QB himself, Harbaugh is NOT a psychologist.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
I've read this book every year for the last 5 years. The ending is still the same.
No it isn't. Nolan and Sing and their incompetent band of coaches are gone. THAT is what was here for 5 years with very little change.

If that is your position, then why waste the time and money to hire Harbaugh. If it was all about the quarterback, then Harbaugh is a waste. He won't be able to do any more with Kaep than Nolan/Sing did with Troy, Alex, Carr, Rattay, JTO, and friends.

Question...

During Nolan and Sing's reign....All the QB's that we have seen on this roster over 6 years. Were any of them quality players?

You can crap on Nolan and Sing as much as you want...but the QB's that were either signed, traded for or drafted have all been sub par. Bad coaching has nothing to do with it. If you're a poor QB, you're a poor QB.

Question to you...

Explain the case of Steve Young? He was God-awful until he had a good coach and better talent around him, why do you think that was?

You couldn't even answer my question.

As far as Steve Young....I'm NOT of the opinion that the difference between a poor QB and a good one is coaching. No frigging way.

Comparing Steve's 16 or so games on one of the worst NFL teams in history to Alex's 60 or so games is blasphemous and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I guess the difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning was coaching, huh? Yall kill me.

Man that is absolutely ridiculous J, you should be ashamed to not see that coaching can most definitely help a QB. Hell my little sister knows that and she picks teams because she likes the color of their uniforms.



Re-read what I typed. The difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning is not coaching. I think some of you rely way too much on coaching (probably because it's all you have left). You can't just pick any old bum off the street and coach em up to be great. There's a reason why some QB's get picked #1 and others get picked #200th in the draft. You have to be coachable, you have to have ability, you have to have intelligence, drive, good football sense, etc... A coach can only do so much. A coach isn't going to throw the ball for you or coach you up to be a leader or to have guts. That comes from within.

Explain where I said coaching can't help a QB???? Of course it can...but it can only do so much. I'm getting really tired of people saying Alex had crap coaching. There aren't too many QB's that had the chance to work with the caliber of OC's Alex has worked with in 3 of his 1st 4 years. You think Sing had a hand in the drills that Alex won? When Martz told Alex to work on his mechanics...you think Nolan interjected and told Martz to STFU? LOL. It's excuse after excuse.

All of a sudden a QB guru head coach is required for a QB to be successful. Well how many QB guru head coaches are there in the league? Why are other QB's successful with defensive minded head coaches? Alex supporters just jump from one excuse to another...from "he needs to be in the same system for more than a year" to "even though Alex had his best statistical seasons with Raye...he's the worst OC in history"....and now to "He needs an offensive minded coach to be successful". Well, when he falters...what will be the excuse? The lockout? Crabtree's sore feet?

All this crap will finally end after this season. Thank God.
Originally posted by nflguy49:

This.

End Thread.
If he plays well we will re sign him. If he plays really well we will franchise him. All of this I doubt though. Alex is a hard worker and a good guy. And it's difficult not to like him. But as a player there are some limits there I think. At this point it's safe to say. So to think he is suddenly Mr. All Pro seems unrealistic.
Originally posted by JayBee:


Re-read what I typed. The difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning is not coaching. I think some of you rely way too much on coaching (probably because it's all you have left). You can't just pick any old bum off the street and coach em up to be great. There's a reason why some QB's get picked #1 and others get picked #200th in the draft. You have to be coachable, you have to have ability, you have to have intelligence, drive, good football sense, etc... A coach can only do so much. A coach isn't going to throw the ball for you or coach you up to be a leader or to have guts. That comes from within.

Explain where I said coaching can't help a QB???? Of course it can...but it can only do so much. I'm getting really tired of people saying Alex had crap coaching. There aren't too many QB's that had the chance to work with the caliber of OC's Alex has worked with in 3 of his 1st 4 years. You think Sing had a hand in the drills that Alex won? When Martz told Alex to work on his mechanics...you think Nolan interjected and told Martz to STFU? LOL. It's excuse after excuse.

All of a sudden a QB guru head coach is required for a QB to be successful. Well how many QB guru head coaches are there in the league? Why are other QB's successful with defensive minded head coaches? Alex supporters just jump from one excuse to another...from "he needs to be in the same system for more than a year" to "even though Alex had his best statistical seasons with Raye...he's the worst OC in history"....and now to "He needs an offensive minded coach to be successful". Well, when he falters...what will be the excuse? The lockout? Crabtree's sore feet?

All this crap will finally end after this season. Thank God.

J-I realize that you are reponding to posts from various people but you keep ignoring the arguments and going back to statements that have been under question. You seem to be making legitimate arguments, which is why you get many responses...a good thing I would think.

1st year--good OC (McCarthy, perhaps a better HC than OC), Rookie pops in and out of the lineup.
2nd year--good OC (Turner, one of the best) Smith progresses adequately
3rd year--terrible OC (Hostler-so good he is now the WR coach for Balt) nuff said
4th year--odd (Martz, good but irratic OC) Smith has broken shoulder but misdiagnosed
5th year--terrible OC (Raye, passed his prime as everyone in the stands knows the plays before he can get them to the huddle).
6th year--ditto, until Johnson gave Smith more liscense and he improved greatly.

You can't see any of this because these are excuses. Not reasons, not facts, not reality...but...excuses. I see them as mitigating circumstances that may have kept a QB from reaching his potential. We may see next year and, as always, I'm an optimist.
hypothetically speaking: if alex smiths wife gave me a reach-around do you think he would be mind? hypothetically speaking of course
Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
Originally posted by nflguy49:

This.

End Thread.

I told you guys on page 1...

My Crystal ball says: "Unclear, try again"
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
I've read this book every year for the last 5 years. The ending is still the same.
No it isn't. Nolan and Sing and their incompetent band of coaches are gone. THAT is what was here for 5 years with very little change.

If that is your position, then why waste the time and money to hire Harbaugh. If it was all about the quarterback, then Harbaugh is a waste. He won't be able to do any more with Kaep than Nolan/Sing did with Troy, Alex, Carr, Rattay, JTO, and friends.

Question...

During Nolan and Sing's reign....All the QB's that we have seen on this roster over 6 years. Were any of them quality players?

You can crap on Nolan and Sing as much as you want...but the QB's that were either signed, traded for or drafted have all been sub par. Bad coaching has nothing to do with it. If you're a poor QB, you're a poor QB.

Question to you...

Explain the case of Steve Young? He was God-awful until he had a good coach and better talent around him, why do you think that was?

You couldn't even answer my question.

As far as Steve Young....I'm NOT of the opinion that the difference between a poor QB and a good one is coaching. No frigging way.

Comparing Steve's 16 or so games on one of the worst NFL teams in history to Alex's 60 or so games is blasphemous and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I guess the difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning was coaching, huh? Yall kill me.

Man that is absolutely ridiculous J, you should be ashamed to not see that coaching can most definitely help a QB. Hell my little sister knows that and she picks teams because she likes the color of their uniforms.



Re-read what I typed. The difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning is not coaching. I think some of you rely way too much on coaching (probably because it's all you have left). You can't just pick any old bum off the street and coach em up to be great. There's a reason why some QB's get picked #1 and others get picked #200th in the draft. You have to be coachable, you have to have ability, you have to have intelligence, drive, good football sense, etc... A coach can only do so much. A coach isn't going to throw the ball for you or coach you up to be a leader or to have guts. That comes from within.

Explain where I said coaching can't help a QB???? Of course it can...but it can only do so much. I'm getting really tired of people saying Alex had crap coaching. There aren't too many QB's that had the chance to work with the caliber of OC's Alex has worked with in 3 of his 1st 4 years. You think Sing had a hand in the drills that Alex won? When Martz told Alex to work on his mechanics...you think Nolan interjected and told Martz to STFU? LOL. It's excuse after excuse.

All of a sudden a QB guru head coach is required for a QB to be successful. Well how many QB guru head coaches are there in the league? Why are other QB's successful with defensive minded head coaches? Alex supporters just jump from one excuse to another...from "he needs to be in the same system for more than a year" to "even though Alex had his best statistical seasons with Raye...he's the worst OC in history"....and now to "He needs an offensive minded coach to be successful". Well, when he falters...what will be the excuse? The lockout? Crabtree's sore feet?

All this crap will finally end after this season. Thank God.

You need to learn the difference between an excuse and a reason before you can try to make this argument. It is true that some guys are just more ready to play qb in the NFL. Manning, for example, played in a pro style offense for a great college coach in the unquestionably superior SEC. Hence, when he went pro, He was ready to start right away. Smith was a project QB from a spread offense that should have been sat down behind a veteran to learn, like Rodgers. Unfortunately for all involved, we did not have a coach that understood how to handle a QB that needed that much work. Like you said, there is a reason Smith was a #1 pick, he has the tools, he just has never had a decent teacher for more than one season. Fortunately like you say, it will be settled this year, one way or another.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
I've read this book every year for the last 5 years. The ending is still the same.
No it isn't. Nolan and Sing and their incompetent band of coaches are gone. THAT is what was here for 5 years with very little change.

If that is your position, then why waste the time and money to hire Harbaugh. If it was all about the quarterback, then Harbaugh is a waste. He won't be able to do any more with Kaep than Nolan/Sing did with Troy, Alex, Carr, Rattay, JTO, and friends.

Question...

During Nolan and Sing's reign....All the QB's that we have seen on this roster over 6 years. Were any of them quality players?

You can crap on Nolan and Sing as much as you want...but the QB's that were either signed, traded for or drafted have all been sub par. Bad coaching has nothing to do with it. If you're a poor QB, you're a poor QB.

Question to you...

Explain the case of Steve Young? He was God-awful until he had a good coach and better talent around him, why do you think that was?

You couldn't even answer my question.

As far as Steve Young....I'm NOT of the opinion that the difference between a poor QB and a good one is coaching. No frigging way.

Comparing Steve's 16 or so games on one of the worst NFL teams in history to Alex's 60 or so games is blasphemous and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I guess the difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning was coaching, huh? Yall kill me.

Man that is absolutely ridiculous J, you should be ashamed to not see that coaching can most definitely help a QB. Hell my little sister knows that and she picks teams because she likes the color of their uniforms.



Re-read what I typed. The difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning is not coaching. I think some of you rely way too much on coaching (probably because it's all you have left). You can't just pick any old bum off the street and coach em up to be great. There's a reason why some QB's get picked #1 and others get picked #200th in the draft. You have to be coachable, you have to have ability, you have to have intelligence, drive, good football sense, etc... A coach can only do so much. A coach isn't going to throw the ball for you or coach you up to be a leader or to have guts. That comes from within.

Explain where I said coaching can't help a QB???? Of course it can...but it can only do so much. I'm getting really tired of people saying Alex had crap coaching. There aren't too many QB's that had the chance to work with the caliber of OC's Alex has worked with in 3 of his 1st 4 years. You think Sing had a hand in the drills that Alex won? When Martz told Alex to work on his mechanics...you think Nolan interjected and told Martz to STFU? LOL. It's excuse after excuse.

All of a sudden a QB guru head coach is required for a QB to be successful. Well how many QB guru head coaches are there in the league? Why are other QB's successful with defensive minded head coaches? Alex supporters just jump from one excuse to another...from "he needs to be in the same system for more than a year" to "even though Alex had his best statistical seasons with Raye...he's the worst OC in history"....and now to "He needs an offensive minded coach to be successful". Well, when he falters...what will be the excuse? The lockout? Crabtree's sore feet?

All this crap will finally end after this season. Thank God.

You need to learn the difference between an excuse and a reason before you can try to make this argument. It is true that some guys are just more ready to play qb in the NFL. Manning, for example, played in a pro style offense for a great college coach in the unquestionably superior SEC. Hence, when he went pro, He was ready to start right away. Smith was a project QB from a spread offense that should have been sat down behind a veteran to learn, like Rodgers. Unfortunately for all involved, we did not have a coach that understood how to handle a QB that needed that much work. Like you said, there is a reason Smith was a #1 pick, he has the tools, he just has never had a decent teacher for more than one season. Fortunately like you say, it will be settled this year, one way or another.

But I don't think Smith should have been a #1 pick. I felt that when he was drafted and I feel that now. In addition, Smith got a chance to sit as a backup "and learn" later on in his career. Does that not count?

Some guys are just not good enough to be starting QB's... I feel the arguments you make for Alex can be used for any QB that has failed.

Where are you guys when people rip on Carr (who came into a crappier situation than Alex)? Where are you when people rip on Jamarcus? Why was Shaun Hill able to outplay Alex?
[ Edited by JayBee on Jul 7, 2011 at 6:16 AM ]