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The Official Harbaugh Era QB competition!

Cute cherry-picker!

No, point taken... Thing is, I find it more useful to judge a player on recent play... as opposed to many years ago. What-have-u-done-4-me-lately league.
Originally posted by canadian49erfan:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by gold49er2183:
Originally posted by JerryRice1848:
Originally posted by goodthings19:
Alex has a legit shot to succed for several reasons
1. Jim Harbaugh
2. Jim Harbaugh
3. Jim Harbaugh
4. Solid O-Line

Exactly. I expect Alex to finish the season with 100+ QB rating, anything less is a disappointment

didn't manning have like a 92 last year? lol

Yep... and Alex had a 91 down the stretch.


wtf is this

another guy trying to stir the s**t because that doesn't go on enough.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,440
I remember Jeff Garcia checking down a lot because he didn't know the playbook all that well. Ray Lewis said its frustrating when Tom Brady knows when he has a RB one on one in coverage. Checking down isn't all that bad, if it moves the chains then why not.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
I remember Jeff Garcia checking down a lot because he didn't know the playbook all that well. Ray Lewis said its frustrating when Tom Brady knows when he has a RB one on one in coverage. Checking down isn't all that bad, if it moves the chains then why not.

Its not the checking down that has people down on Smith its the throws he makes checking down. His short game is pretty awful. Quite a few games hes missing guys on screens completely or throwing a short pass into the dirt. Thats where fans get livid with the checkdowns. Its also something im hoping JH can fix with Smith and CK.
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
I remember Jeff Garcia checking down a lot because he didn't know the playbook all that well. Ray Lewis said its frustrating when Tom Brady knows when he has a RB one on one in coverage. Checking down isn't all that bad, if it moves the chains then why not.

Its not the checking down that has people down on Smith its the throws he makes checking down. His short game is pretty awful. Quite a few games hes missing guys on screens completely or throwing a short pass into the dirt. Thats where fans get livid with the checkdowns. Its also something im hoping JH can fix with Smith and CK.

or when he has a WR running open down the field... this is coming from a Smith fan
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by JustaFan45:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by JustaFan45:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
I think it'll be alright in here.

The main problem I wonder is if we can ever let go of the past. There's a very thin line between remembering greatness, and what we've had for the past 8 years.

When i started in here, i used to get sick of our current team being compared to the team of 5 super bowl rings. Every win or loss we'd be like that wouldnt happen with Mooch, or Young, or Montana, etc. It seems like we finally have managed to just get over that, while at the same time, never forgetting what a winning team and/ or season feels like.

I made this thread just like the guy said above its the Era of Harbaugh competition, and although this is just training camp, some are still failing to see, even if just a glitch of the greatness that we MAY taste again.

Tell me how long its been guys, since we felt this excited, and emotional, and on the edge of our seats, just to hear a word, read a detail, or get a glimpse at our current team under Harbaugh. Not since T.O. and Mooch left for me anyways.

We need to let go of not just Alex, but the entire team of the past. If there is one thing we can agree on, it should be that, this is not the same team that totally seemed lost since 2002. We have a damn good reason to be optimistic, and although some still cant let go of their individual bias's for some reason, i say for the sake of the team we should all be able to support the current regime.

About 95 percent of us admittingly or not, was ready to blow up the FO for their horrendous job of waiting as Baalke said. Now we have a post started saying something to the effect of is this the best free agent class in a long time. We have our big names that some wanted, and although they may not be lights out, everyone we added seems to bring sumthing better than the guy they replaced.

Smith only back for a year, a true No.1 receiver, one of the best if not the best line backer, and TE in the league. And the other main thing, We finally drafted a young Qb, who we can all agree seems to have that *it* factor that many of us said has been lacking. He was taken in the 2nd round for a reason, and how reassuring is it to know that we finally have a coach that knows how to bring the best out in him, all while fine tuning his current skillset.

This is the new Era of Coaching for us, someone who pays attention to detail, someone who knows how to coach to a players strength, and above all someone who's not afraid to go against the grain, and can adjust playcalling at the drop of a dime if need be. (Still dont know if it will translate to the NFL just yet, but we'll find out next week right)

So fellas, like a certain player or not, this is about the QB competition, the real competition, and it's very comfortable in knowing that if kap doesnt start this year, that its not because of some gimmick, but because coach feels he wants him to be great when he takes the reigns, not just average. And if coach feels that he should start for some reason or another, then so be it, and the Kap era will begin.

Lets just look at all the competition, the coaches, and the players without rose colored glasses, and without holding on to past experiences. If we can do that, please believe we will be no longer one of the laughing stock fan bases, that we currently are.

WE all agree lets go niners. Well i say LETS GO FANS, and lets support our team like we all can, and have, TOGETHER in the past. We are a part of the organization as well, and when we can be a driving force, just like in a lot of our road games, DAMN!, just wonder how much we could achieve as a whole, and help our team succeed.

I'm sure we will let go of the past when we put up a winning season.

I stated the other day I don't like Alex Smith the QB however I will support him because that is the 49er fan in me. This thing about "let's support the team" stuff. Who isn't doing that? I'm sure the posters that come to this website are true 49er fans so I don't understand the support the team statement.

Now there are going to be 49er fans that don't like Alex Smith but are hoping he will turn it around for the sake of the team! There are other players on this team that fans do not like. There are fans that have their favorite players. These are the reasons they are Niner fans bottom line regardless of bias.

The positive or negative comments about a player (Alex) shouldn’t bring into question a fans loyalty to his team or have any effect on that fans view on that player. All of us will not agree on every aspect of this team. (This is for both extremist in the Alex debate).

So don’t make blanket statements that we are “One of the laughing stock fans in the NFL” because fans are tired of Alex Smith! Other team fans say otherwise because we keep giving him chances. So what! Look at like this if Alex doesn’t work out that means we will most likely have a losing season and fans will boo and be upset! If he is successful, most likely we’re successful and fans will cheer and be excited… simple!

As far as Harbaugh’s QB competition? There isn’t one just like every other year. Alex Smith is going to be the starter barring injury. Go NINERS!

Wow just wow, id rather u had not even commented, bruh. No where in that statment did i say laughing stock because of Alex Smith. And thats what im talkin bout. You see what u wanted to see out of all that. I also pointed out, how many of us were ready to kill the F/O for not doing what some thought they should, then when they did, we were happy as hell. Take the issue with Crabs, some are saying bust, and for another team, and some are like give the guy a chance.

All that i wrote was towards those fans that make it about one player, and one player only, whether Smith, Crabs, or anyone else on the team, and if u fall into that category then so be it.

If you read before i posted this original comment, this was turning into a just about alex smith thread, and thats not why this post was made. it was made to discuss Alex, and Kap, and our no 3 qb, and how they are looking (now 2011). Not how alex did in the past with this, or kap did in college, or anything else. Its about the 2011 harbaugh qb competition, and if it serves me correctly, this is his first year, so i could care less how he looked with dingleberry, or Nolan as our HC.

Obviously u took offense to something i guess, which is why everything u wrote just reverted about Smith, just proved exactly what i was talking about. I'll give u a good example, witout saying any names a zoner wrote that Kap will start sooner than later, and that when he went to practice he saw Smith looked horrible. many fans wrote back and said that well even tho u feel like that, we have about 99% of others that felt the opposite way, including reporters, columnists, and papers alike, so who was right, and who was wrong.

This post once again was saying debate, talk about the positives and negatives. Who did this and who did that, but this year, not years before. As far as im concerned the whole team is new, and the production they had in seasons end is erased in my eyes. Does this mindset go for everyone out there, hell nah, which is why we have the zone.

But like i said my parents taught me, u cant ever do anything to change how a person thinks, and people just read this post, or didnt, and moved on, but u felt the need to write all u did, and just focus on smith for about 90% of your response.

Also, i mean seriously u act like none of our fanbase is bias in any way to the point in which their entire judgement on any player, coach, or team aspect is clouded completely by the past. Some of us were even worried that any moment, during TC that there were gonna be boos, and such, and there were not (all stemming from the past). I should of said laughing stock as an entire organization in the past, and as i said at the end of my post when talking about the positives, that we are also apart of the organization.

I said whether with Smith, or Crabs, or Davis, or Gore, lets focus on now. And once again this thread is about The Harbaugh Era QB competition only. Anything else, and someone can just start another thread about the past this or that, or past competitions, or TC's.

We can go back and forth brotha, but ill end it here and maybe we can agree on one thing if at all..... Go Niners!

Let’s be real for a second this is an Alex Smith thread! You would not have started this thread if it had nothing to do Alex Smith! So yes I’m talking about Smith and pointing out that “BIAS” has nothing to do with it! Your bias comment toward one player? You mean Alex Smith! So let’s get that straight.

Some fans are against Alex because of his past performances as a whole. Some are with him because of the circumstances that surrounded him. Some see the glass half full some see half empty. Some reporters and columnists feel he will turn it around, some feel he is what he is! The point is it doesn’t matter either way! The only way for fans to change their views of him is after this season one way or another so until then you will get this division among FANS!

No other hate or love for any other player on this team will bring out questions about fan support and where their loyalties are. For example your fans support speech pops up in an Alex thread (Oh yes this is an Alex thread you created). I don’t see this in any Crabtree, Chilo, or Harlason threads. I assume you could care less or comment about other fans opinions on those players! Or you could not like these players yourself!

The point is different opinions and different views doesn’t mean there is or is not any fan support! I understand it’s your opinion and you have a right to that but don’t think I will not comment on a statement regarding the fan base. I’m sure anti-Smith fans accept he will be the starter and still will support the team just like pro-Smith fans would! However a Smith supporter like yourself have to accept that fans are still supporting this team regardless if they are an Alex Smith “Hater.”

By the way to stay on topic there is no Harbaugh era QB competition. At least not this year.

wrong dude. people dont hope chilo or harelson suck so they can lose games and be switched out. people would rather smith lose games and get pulled then actually pull for the QB of their team to be good and win games. but anyway.

lets keep this thread about the competition. Smith vs Kap vs Masoli vs Bethel-Thompson is all we should see in this thread. or how Harbaugh is teaching these guys.

thanks brotha, thats all i was tryin to say.
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
I think it'll be alright in here.

The main problem I wonder is if we can ever let go of the past. There's a very thin line between remembering greatness, and what we've had for the past 8 years.

When i started in here, i used to get sick of our current team being compared to the team of 5 super bowl rings. Every win or loss we'd be like that wouldnt happen with Mooch, or Young, or Montana, etc. It seems like we finally have managed to just get over that, while at the same time, never forgetting what a winning team and/ or season feels like.

I made this thread just like the guy said above its the Era of Harbaugh competition, and although this is just training camp, some are still failing to see, even if just a glitch of the greatness that we MAY taste again.

Tell me how long its been guys, since we felt this excited, and emotional, and on the edge of our seats, just to hear a word, read a detail, or get a glimpse at our current team under Harbaugh. Not since T.O. and Mooch left for me anyways.

We need to let go of not just Alex, but the entire team of the past. If there is one thing we can agree on, it should be that, this is not the same team that totally seemed lost since 2002. We have a damn good reason to be optimistic, and although some still cant let go of their individual bias's for some reason, i say for the sake of the team we should all be able to support the current regime.

About 95 percent of us admittingly or not, was ready to blow up the FO for their horrendous job of waiting as Baalke said. Now we have a post started saying something to the effect of is this the best free agent class in a long time. We have our big names that some wanted, and although they may not be lights out, everyone we added seems to bring sumthing better than the guy they replaced.

Smith only back for a year, a true No.1 receiver, one of the best if not the best line backer, and TE in the league. And the other main thing, We finally drafted a young Qb, who we can all agree seems to have that *it* factor that many of us said has been lacking. He was taken in the 2nd round for a reason, and how reassuring is it to know that we finally have a coach that knows how to bring the best out in him, all while fine tuning his current skillset.

This is the new Era of Coaching for us, someone who pays attention to detail, someone who knows how to coach to a players strength, and above all someone who's not afraid to go against the grain, and can adjust playcalling at the drop of a dime if need be. (Still dont know if it will translate to the NFL just yet, but we'll find out next week right)

So fellas, like a certain player or not, this is about the QB competition, the real competition, and it's very comfortable in knowing that if kap doesnt start this year, that its not because of some gimmick, but because coach feels he wants him to be great when he takes the reigns, not just average. And if coach feels that he should start for some reason or another, then so be it, and the Kap era will begin.

Lets just look at all the competition, the coaches, and the players without rose colored glasses, and without holding on to past experiences. If we can do that, please believe we will be no longer one of the laughing stock fan bases, that we currently are.

WE all agree lets go niners. Well i say LETS GO FANS, and lets support our team like we all can, and have, TOGETHER in the past. We are a part of the organization as well, and when we can be a driving force, just like in a lot of our road games, DAMN!, just wonder how much we could achieve as a whole, and help our team succeed.

Great post! I am so excited and can't wait to watch this team play now that we have football back!
Found this a pretty good read in regards to our offense, and checkdowns from baby Cohn, in todays article of Taking Stock of the Organization. He talked about the defense too, but i'm just pasting the part about the offense......

On the offense, Goodwin is an upgrade over Baas, and Edwards is the perfect replacement for Crabtree while he’s injured. If the two mature and play up to their potential, the 49ers could have the best starting wide receivers in the NFC West.

The main reason the offense is better than last year, though, is because of the coaches – Harbaugh and Greg Roman. With those two designing and calling the plays instead of Jimmy Raye and Mike Johnson, the team has drastically improved. No longer will opposing defenses predict the 49ers plays at the line of scrimmage. Alex Smith, Frank Gore, and Vernon Davis all should have the best years of their careers.

Here’s why I say that. Alex Smith still looks like the same Alex Smith in practice. But when he checks down to Gore, the play design usually gives Gore lots of space to run after the catch. And when Smith wants to throw his bread and butter, the seam to Vernon Davis, he’s usually open. This is a direct result of deceptive play-calling.

The deception comes from pre-snap shifts, and from Alex Smith’s eyes. In practice, he’s been staring down receivers less and less. When he checks down to Gore, it’s usually his third or fourth read, even if it seems like he wanted to throw to him all along. These progressions are designed and they’re effective.

It’s fair to say the 49ers have the most talent in the NFC West. If the coaching staff lives up to expectations, the 49ers should win the division.


here's the article in its entirety http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/08/training-camp/taking-stock-of-the-organization/
.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Cute cherry-picker!

No, point taken... Thing is, I find it more useful to judge a player on recent play... as opposed to many years ago. What-have-u-done-4-me-lately league.

I agree. The what have you done lately league is what I believe in too. And lately is last season as a whole. And in that season, ALex Smith was in the bottom third of every statistical category.

I dont care if Kaepernick is a rookie or not. I would really like to see a true quarterback competition. Its whats best for the 49ers.
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Found this a pretty good read in regards to our offense, and checkdowns from baby Cohn, in todays article of Taking Stock of the Organization. He talked about the defense too, but i'm just pasting the part about the offense......

On the offense, Goodwin is an upgrade over Baas, and Edwards is the perfect replacement for Crabtree while he’s injured. If the two mature and play up to their potential, the 49ers could have the best starting wide receivers in the NFC West.

The main reason the offense is better than last year, though, is because of the coaches – Harbaugh and Greg Roman. With those two designing and calling the plays instead of Jimmy Raye and Mike Johnson, the team has drastically improved. No longer will opposing defenses predict the 49ers plays at the line of scrimmage. Alex Smith, Frank Gore, and Vernon Davis all should have the best years of their careers.

Here’s why I say that. Alex Smith still looks like the same Alex Smith in practice. But when he checks down to Gore, the play design usually gives Gore lots of space to run after the catch. And when Smith wants to throw his bread and butter, the seam to Vernon Davis, he’s usually open. This is a direct result of deceptive play-calling.

The deception comes from pre-snap shifts, and from Alex Smith’s eyes. In practice, he’s been staring down receivers less and less. When he checks down to Gore, it’s usually his third or fourth read, even if it seems like he wanted to throw to him all along. These progressions are designed and they’re effective.

It’s fair to say the 49ers have the most talent in the NFC West. If the coaching staff lives up to expectations, the 49ers should win the division.


here's the article in its entirety http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/08/training-camp/taking-stock-of-the-organization/
.

I wish I could fast forward to Friday.
figured a great read on Kap, from Matt B.


QB Colin Kaepernick: The second-round pick is as athletic and strong-armed as advertised. However, he's come in more prepared and more polished than perhaps was expected. Kaepernick is at his best hitting targets on crossing patterns down field. Those passes have been accurate and arrive so quickly that defensive players don't have much time to react. His touch passes - passes in which he's trying to feather a pass over a defender - have been a bit off. Kaepernick seemed to be consciously holding back on those throws - sort of half-throwing them - which gave them an unnatural look. He seems to be much better and more accurate when putting everything he has into his throws. He also has shown a tendency to throw off his back foot, which causes passes to sail. All in all, it's been a very promising beginning for Kaepernick. The fact that the 49ers are in no rush to bring in another veteran quarterback not only means that they are happy with how Kaepernick is operating in practice, it means the rookie will continue to get plenty of repetitions, critical for his development.

Read more: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2011/08/49ers-rookie-review-training-camp-edition.html#ixzz1UNjyzUIB
Another article, but on Shotgun Qb's from baby Cohn;

Three shotgun quarterbacks
Posted on August 7, 2011 by Grant Cohn
Three shotgun quarterbacks

It’s too early to take stock of the quarterbacks, so I’ll just give an observation.

The three top QBs on the training camp roster – Alex Smith, Colin Kaepernick, and Jeremiah Masoli – are all most comfortable throwing the ball from the shotgun.

Each guy played strictly in shotgun or shotgun-like offenses in college. Smith ran the spread, Kaepernick ran the pistol, and Masoli ran the option.

When you think of West-Coast-offense quarterbacks, you usually think of quarterbacks who operate from under center, yet Harbaugh hand-picked three shotgun guys. What does that mean?

My gut feeling is Harbaugh and Roman’s offense will not look like a classic West Coast offense, it will look like something new and innovative. I’m talking about shotgun play-action plays and designed quarterback runs to keep the defense off balance, things more associated with college offenses.

Harbaugh and Roman will be able to get away with these trick plays for a few reasons – the pre-snap shifting will confuse the defense, and the rest of the talent on the roster is set up to succeed from the shotgun as well.

Both Anthony Dixon and Kendall Hunter rushed from shotgun, one-back formations in college, and Frank Gore is certainly good enough to succeed in these formations as well.

We may not see the really creative stuff early, since team is only in mid-May form according to Harbaugh. But they are certainly something to watch for as the season goes on.


Im wondering if they are gonna play a Tom Brady WCO type of offense. Meaning when Brady has time in the shotgun, which is very often he has at least from 3 to 5 seconds to make all the reads, if not more, from good O-line protection. As we know when u have more time to go through your reads, u become that much of a better QB. What do u guys think??
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Cute cherry-picker!

No, point taken... Thing is, I find it more useful to judge a player on recent play... as opposed to many years ago. What-have-u-done-4-me-lately league.

To imply that he played great down the stretch is laughable. He was benched for the majority of the stretch and played the final 3.5 games. He was benched before the St Louis game only to come in relief.

When you break down his performances in meaningful games (Arizona doesn't count) he only played great in the Seattle game. He was turnover machine against Philly, and the rest of the games he was efficient while our offense blew chunks. Hence why he was repeatedly benched.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Aug 7, 2011 at 2:55 PM ]
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Cute cherry-picker!

No, point taken... Thing is, I find it more useful to judge a player on recent play... as opposed to many years ago. What-have-u-done-4-me-lately league.

To imply that he played great down the stretch is laughable. He was benched for the majority of the stretch and played the final 3.5 games. He was benched before the St Louis game only to come in relief.

When you break down his performances in meaningful games (Arizona doesn't count) he only played great in the Seattle game. He was turnover machine against Philly, and the rest of the games he was efficient while our offense blew chunks. Hence why he was repeatedly benched.

You are free to interpret the 91 QBR however you choose to. I would not call his play "great" down the stretch. I would call it "decent" though... when considering the many extenuating failures of the team as a whole.
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Another article, but on Shotgun Qb's from baby Cohn;

Three shotgun quarterbacks
Posted on August 7, 2011 by Grant Cohn
Three shotgun quarterbacks

It’s too early to take stock of the quarterbacks, so I’ll just give an observation.

The three top QBs on the training camp roster – Alex Smith, Colin Kaepernick, and Jeremiah Masoli – are all most comfortable throwing the ball from the shotgun.

Each guy played strictly in shotgun or shotgun-like offenses in college. Smith ran the spread, Kaepernick ran the pistol, and Masoli ran the option.

When you think of West-Coast-offense quarterbacks, you usually think of quarterbacks who operate from under center, yet Harbaugh hand-picked three shotgun guys. What does that mean?

My gut feeling is Harbaugh and Roman’s offense will not look like a classic West Coast offense, it will look like something new and innovative. I’m talking about shotgun play-action plays and designed quarterback runs to keep the defense off balance, things more associated with college offenses.

Harbaugh and Roman will be able to get away with these trick plays for a few reasons – the pre-snap shifting will confuse the defense, and the rest of the talent on the roster is set up to succeed from the shotgun as well.

Both Anthony Dixon and Kendall Hunter rushed from shotgun, one-back formations in college, and Frank Gore is certainly good enough to succeed in these formations as well.

We may not see the really creative stuff early, since team is only in mid-May form according to Harbaugh. But they are certainly something to watch for as the season goes on.


Im wondering if they are gonna play a Tom Brady WCO type of offense. Meaning when Brady has time in the shotgun, which is very often he has at least from 3 to 5 seconds to make all the reads, if not more, from good O-line protection. As we know when u have more time to go through your reads, u become that much of a better QB. What do u guys think??

Time to move away from the shotgun approach. Teams that do this almost always struggle to run the football. We're best off with a balanced offense. You don't beef up the line not to run the football.

Nowadays mobile college quarterbacks generally come from a gimmick offense. It's just something you have to deal with. You have to transition them into a pro offense.