DB coach Donatell expects Mays to "spike."

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Godsleftsock:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
You can teach someone to be fluid with their hips. Tell mays to take some Tahitian dance classes and do ju jit su, he'll come out 100% better.

That's only because it's choreographed. It's one thing to follow steps but it's another to be required to instantly react differently in nearly every situation.

So you're saying jiujitsu is choreographed?

No, I was talking about dancing. Does ju jit su require having fluid hips?

It does, but I'm not sure of the carryover to football

all i can say is Taylor Mays is on his way to a higher level. Its all in the timing and understanding the formations capabilities in front of you kid!

Mats has serious work to do on his coverage, needless to say. But what many of you are overlooking is that he is a poor tackler that doesn't wrap up as often as he should. The good thing is that his problems are coachable, so it is not like he was a wasted pick, he just needs to develop his ball skills and tackling fundamentals. I knew he was a gamble when we picked him, but the payoff could be huge if the coaches can unleash the beast in him.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Mats has serious work to do on his coverage, needless to say. But what many of you are overlooking is that he is a poor tackler that doesn't wrap up as often as he should. The good thing is that his problems are coachable, so it is not like he was a wasted pick, he just needs to develop his ball skills and tackling fundamentals. I knew he was a gamble when we picked him, but the payoff could be huge if the coaches can unleash the beast in him.

There were quite a few times last season he came in too high on his tackles. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that he was too focused on wrapping and not missing the tackle.

I don't really care if he's the perfect tackler if it means he will lay solid hits on guys.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Mats has serious work to do on his coverage, needless to say. But what many of you are overlooking is that he is a poor tackler that doesn't wrap up as often as he should. The good thing is that his problems are coachable, so it is not like he was a wasted pick, he just needs to develop his ball skills and tackling fundamentals. I knew he was a gamble when we picked him, but the payoff could be huge if the coaches can unleash the beast in him.

There were quite a few times last season he came in too high on his tackles. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that he was too focused on wrapping and not missing the tackle.

I don't really care if he's the perfect tackler if it means he will lay solid hits on guys.

Nobody raps up anymore on tackles. It's a league wide thing. It's just now starting to be addressed. Mays is just doing what been done by his fellow players. BTW, this is my 10,000 post.

There is potential for Mays to be used as a Woodson type, that spends alot of time in the backfield. The downside is he isn't anywhere close to Woodson in terms of coverage. Mays could end up being a "tell" when he's on the field, meaning the offense could assume that he's blitzing.......and if he isn't blitzing, the offense will just target him in coverage.

Another guy that people seem to have written off, is Nate. If he does play for the Niners this season, he's another guy that could be used as a Woodson type for Fangio. He's better in coverage than Mays, AND he is a better tackler. Nate already makes a decent amount of tackles at or around the LOS in the running game. It isn't a stretch to assume he could be used as a Nickel back that blitzes often.

Either way, I'm stoked to see what the defense does this season. Even if they get burned alot, I'd still love to see an attacking style of defense. I'm tired of the Nolan/Manusky umbrella of caution two/four deep soft zone.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Mats has serious work to do on his coverage, needless to say. But what many of you are overlooking is that he is a poor tackler that doesn't wrap up as often as he should. The good thing is that his problems are coachable, so it is not like he was a wasted pick, he just needs to develop his ball skills and tackling fundamentals. I knew he was a gamble when we picked him, but the payoff could be huge if the coaches can unleash the beast in him.

There were quite a few times last season he came in too high on his tackles. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that he was too focused on wrapping and not missing the tackle.

I don't really care if he's the perfect tackler if it means he will lay solid hits on guys.

Nobody raps up anymore on tackles. It's a league wide thing. It's just now starting to be addressed. Mays is just doing what been done by his fellow players. BTW, this is my 10,000 post.

Patrick Willis wants to talk to you.

fear is what stops a youngster from pummeling the runner....he needs some Ronni Lott fundis!

This is exactly what I wanted to hear.

I'll believe it when I see it. I reached my breaking point on unwarranted positivity last season.

Originally posted by ea_thegreat:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Mats has serious work to do on his coverage, needless to say. But what many of you are overlooking is that he is a poor tackler that doesn't wrap up as often as he should. The good thing is that his problems are coachable, so it is not like he was a wasted pick, he just needs to develop his ball skills and tackling fundamentals. I knew he was a gamble when we picked him, but the payoff could be huge if the coaches can unleash the beast in him.

There were quite a few times last season he came in too high on his tackles. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that he was too focused on wrapping and not missing the tackle.

I don't really care if he's the perfect tackler if it means he will lay solid hits on guys.

Nobody raps up anymore on tackles. It's a league wide thing. It's just now starting to be addressed. Mays is just doing what been done by his fellow players. BTW, this is my 10,000 post.

Patrick Willis wants to talk to you.

Many players that still wrap up are linebackers and defensive lineman, and a couple safeties like Adrian Wilson or Troy P..

The simple fact is there is a limited incentive to wrapping up in todays nfl. The game is played so fast that only the players that have the muscle memory of 1,000's of reps to breakdown and secure the tackle can do it fast enough subconciously to not hinder their play. When DB's are running 4.4 40's all over the field just to get into the play its pretty hard to stop, break down and remember to secure the tackle when you've played RB, WR, & DB all your life (ie: the skill positions where tackling isn't their main responsibility. Yes it's basic football fundamentals but people need to remember that in most cases the DB's in the NFL were the top athletes on their college teams... and receivers & running backs in college aren't averaging 210-230 pnds in college, so cheating and going for the big hit takes people down in college but not always at the NFL level.

There is also the health issue... not many 200 pnd DB's wanna open up their wingspan to tackle the likes of AP, Andre Johnson, Peyton Hillis, etc. at full speed. When the average NFL collission is equivalent to 30mph car crash... It's safer to keep your arms inside the vehicle. As much as the lack of tackling fundamentals is difficult to watch, if all these DB's started opening up their arms to start securing tackles... dislocated shoulders, broken forarms & wrists, dislocated fingers are gonna be on the rise and starters are gonna fall. It's easier to play the LB position with a club for an arm (ala P. Willis) than it is for a DB.

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by ea_thegreat:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Mats has serious work to do on his coverage, needless to say. But what many of you are overlooking is that he is a poor tackler that doesn't wrap up as often as he should. The good thing is that his problems are coachable, so it is not like he was a wasted pick, he just needs to develop his ball skills and tackling fundamentals. I knew he was a gamble when we picked him, but the payoff could be huge if the coaches can unleash the beast in him.

There were quite a few times last season he came in too high on his tackles. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that he was too focused on wrapping and not missing the tackle.

I don't really care if he's the perfect tackler if it means he will lay solid hits on guys.

Nobody raps up anymore on tackles. It's a league wide thing. It's just now starting to be addressed. Mays is just doing what been done by his fellow players. BTW, this is my 10,000 post.

Patrick Willis wants to talk to you.

Many players that still wrap up are linebackers and defensive lineman, and a couple safeties like Adrian Wilson or Troy P..

The simple fact is there is a limited incentive to wrapping up in todays nfl. The game is played so fast that only the players that have the muscle memory of 1,000's of reps to breakdown and secure the tackle can do it fast enough subconciously to not hinder their play. When DB's are running 4.4 40's all over the field just to get into the play its pretty hard to stop, break down and remember to secure the tackle when you've played RB, WR, & DB all your life (ie: the skill positions where tackling isn't their main responsibility. Yes it's basic football fundamentals but people need to remember that in most cases the DB's in the NFL were the top athletes on their college teams... and receivers & running backs in college aren't averaging 210-230 pnds in college, so cheating and going for the big hit takes people down in college but not always at the NFL level.

There is also the health issue... not many 200 pnd DB's wanna open up their wingspan to tackle the likes of AP, Andre Johnson, Peyton Hillis, etc. at full speed. When the average NFL collission is equivalent to 30mph car crash... It's safer to keep your arms inside the vehicle. As much as the lack of tackling fundamentals is difficult to watch, if all these DB's started opening up their arms to start securing tackles... dislocated shoulders, broken forarms & wrists, dislocated fingers are gonna be on the rise and starters are gonna fall. It's easier to play the LB position with a club for an arm (ala P. Willis) than it is for a DB.

The bold is so true. It's very easy to injure these parts of your arm when you open them up.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by ea_thegreat:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Mats has serious work to do on his coverage, needless to say. But what many of you are overlooking is that he is a poor tackler that doesn't wrap up as often as he should. The good thing is that his problems are coachable, so it is not like he was a wasted pick, he just needs to develop his ball skills and tackling fundamentals. I knew he was a gamble when we picked him, but the payoff could be huge if the coaches can unleash the beast in him.

There were quite a few times last season he came in too high on his tackles. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that he was too focused on wrapping and not missing the tackle.

I don't really care if he's the perfect tackler if it means he will lay solid hits on guys.

Nobody raps up anymore on tackles. It's a league wide thing. It's just now starting to be addressed. Mays is just doing what been done by his fellow players. BTW, this is my 10,000 post.

Patrick Willis wants to talk to you.

Many players that still wrap up are linebackers and defensive lineman, and a couple safeties like Adrian Wilson or Troy P..

The simple fact is there is a limited incentive to wrapping up in todays nfl. The game is played so fast that only the players that have the muscle memory of 1,000's of reps to breakdown and secure the tackle can do it fast enough subconciously to not hinder their play. When DB's are running 4.4 40's all over the field just to get into the play its pretty hard to stop, break down and remember to secure the tackle when you've played RB, WR, & DB all your life (ie: the skill positions where tackling isn't their main responsibility. Yes it's basic football fundamentals but people need to remember that in most cases the DB's in the NFL were the top athletes on their college teams... and receivers & running backs in college aren't averaging 210-230 pnds in college, so cheating and going for the big hit takes people down in college but not always at the NFL level.

There is also the health issue... not many 200 pnd DB's wanna open up their wingspan to tackle the likes of AP, Andre Johnson, Peyton Hillis, etc. at full speed. When the average NFL collission is equivalent to 30mph car crash... It's safer to keep your arms inside the vehicle. As much as the lack of tackling fundamentals is difficult to watch, if all these DB's started opening up their arms to start securing tackles... dislocated shoulders, broken forarms & wrists, dislocated fingers are gonna be on the rise and starters are gonna fall. It's easier to play the LB position with a club for an arm (ala P. Willis) than it is for a DB.

The bold is so true. It's very easy to injure these parts of your arm when you open them up.

lol

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by ea_thegreat:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Mats has serious work to do on his coverage, needless to say. But what many of you are overlooking is that he is a poor tackler that doesn't wrap up as often as he should. The good thing is that his problems are coachable, so it is not like he was a wasted pick, he just needs to develop his ball skills and tackling fundamentals. I knew he was a gamble when we picked him, but the payoff could be huge if the coaches can unleash the beast in him.

There were quite a few times last season he came in too high on his tackles. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that he was too focused on wrapping and not missing the tackle.

I don't really care if he's the perfect tackler if it means he will lay solid hits on guys.

Nobody raps up anymore on tackles. It's a league wide thing. It's just now starting to be addressed. Mays is just doing what been done by his fellow players. BTW, this is my 10,000 post.

Patrick Willis wants to talk to you.

Many players that still wrap up are linebackers and defensive lineman, and a couple safeties like Adrian Wilson or Troy P..

The simple fact is there is a limited incentive to wrapping up in todays nfl. The game is played so fast that only the players that have the muscle memory of 1,000's of reps to breakdown and secure the tackle can do it fast enough subconciously to not hinder their play. When DB's are running 4.4 40's all over the field just to get into the play its pretty hard to stop, break down and remember to secure the tackle when you've played RB, WR, & DB all your life (ie: the skill positions where tackling isn't their main responsibility. Yes it's basic football fundamentals but people need to remember that in most cases the DB's in the NFL were the top athletes on their college teams... and receivers & running backs in college aren't averaging 210-230 pnds in college, so cheating and going for the big hit takes people down in college but not always at the NFL level.

There is also the health issue... not many 200 pnd DB's wanna open up their wingspan to tackle the likes of AP, Andre Johnson, Peyton Hillis, etc. at full speed. When the average NFL collission is equivalent to 30mph car crash... It's safer to keep your arms inside the vehicle. As much as the lack of tackling fundamentals is difficult to watch, if all these DB's started opening up their arms to start securing tackles... dislocated shoulders, broken forarms & wrists, dislocated fingers are gonna be on the rise and starters are gonna fall. It's easier to play the LB position with a club for an arm (ala P. Willis) than it is for a DB.

The bold is so true. It's very easy to injure these parts of your arm when you open them up.

lol

Ugh, yeah... all parts of an isolated limb are substantially easier to break than one thats held into the body, especially when that limb is trying to halt a 215+ pnd brick of muscle at full speed.

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by ea_thegreat:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Mats has serious work to do on his coverage, needless to say. But what many of you are overlooking is that he is a poor tackler that doesn't wrap up as often as he should. The good thing is that his problems are coachable, so it is not like he was a wasted pick, he just needs to develop his ball skills and tackling fundamentals. I knew he was a gamble when we picked him, but the payoff could be huge if the coaches can unleash the beast in him.

There were quite a few times last season he came in too high on his tackles. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that he was too focused on wrapping and not missing the tackle.

I don't really care if he's the perfect tackler if it means he will lay solid hits on guys.

Nobody raps up anymore on tackles. It's a league wide thing. It's just now starting to be addressed. Mays is just doing what been done by his fellow players. BTW, this is my 10,000 post.

Patrick Willis wants to talk to you.

Many players that still wrap up are linebackers and defensive lineman, and a couple safeties like Adrian Wilson or Troy P..

The simple fact is there is a limited incentive to wrapping up in todays nfl. The game is played so fast that only the players that have the muscle memory of 1,000's of reps to breakdown and secure the tackle can do it fast enough subconciously to not hinder their play. When DB's are running 4.4 40's all over the field just to get into the play its pretty hard to stop, break down and remember to secure the tackle when you've played RB, WR, & DB all your life (ie: the skill positions where tackling isn't their main responsibility. Yes it's basic football fundamentals but people need to remember that in most cases the DB's in the NFL were the top athletes on their college teams... and receivers & running backs in college aren't averaging 210-230 pnds in college, so cheating and going for the big hit takes people down in college but not always at the NFL level.

There is also the health issue... not many 200 pnd DB's wanna open up their wingspan to tackle the likes of AP, Andre Johnson, Peyton Hillis, etc. at full speed. When the average NFL collission is equivalent to 30mph car crash... It's safer to keep your arms inside the vehicle. As much as the lack of tackling fundamentals is difficult to watch, if all these DB's started opening up their arms to start securing tackles... dislocated shoulders, broken forarms & wrists, dislocated fingers are gonna be on the rise and starters are gonna fall. It's easier to play the LB position with a club for an arm (ala P. Willis) than it is for a DB.

The bold is so true. It's very easy to injure these parts of your arm when you open them up.

lol

Ugh, yeah... all parts of an isolated limb are substantially easier to break than one thats held into the body, especially when that limb is trying to halt a 215+ pnd brick of muscle at full speed.

I have gotten more shoulder stingers and bone bruises to my forearms tackling with my arms spread wingspan than I can remember.

I would have to say the best and safest method to tackle is to keep your arms low and elbows sort of inside, make the hit with your mask and shoulders and then thrust your arms up to make the wrap.