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Out of these QB's, who would you start and why?

Out of these QB's, who would you start and why?

Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by excelsior:
Alex made many, many more screen passes that were right on the money. But his detractors focus in on his few bad ones and try to make them live on in infamy. Indeed, they even pursuade themselves that these were the kind of throws that he made more often than not. This is how people delude themselves into living with a false reality.

Wonderful, he has a 65% accuracy on screen passes when the rest of the league is at 90%.

lol. He throws high a lot on those bubble screens to the WRs
  • BobS
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  • Posts: 7,919
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by excelsior:
Alex made many, many more screen passes that were right on the money. But his detractors focus in on his few bad ones and try to make them live on in infamy. Indeed, they even pursuade themselves that these were the kind of throws that he made more often than not. This is how people delude themselves into living with a false reality.

Wonderful, he has a 65% accuracy on screen passes when the rest of the league is at 90%.

lol. He throws high a lot on those bubble screens to the WRs


Those aren't his fault, our receivers are too short. Those passes would be spot on if we had receivers as tall as Shaq that could jump like Michael Jordan.
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by excelsior:
Alex made many, many more screen passes that were right on the money. But his detractors focus in on his few bad ones and try to make them live on in infamy. Indeed, they even pursuade themselves that these were the kind of throws that he made more often than not. This is how people delude themselves into living with a false reality.

Wonderful, he has a 65% accuracy on screen passes when the rest of the league is at 90%.

lol. He throws high a lot on those bubble screens to the WRs


Those aren't his fault, our receivers are too short. Those passes would be spot on if we had receivers as tall as Shaq that could jump like Michael Jordan.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Alex #452
The Alex Smith apologists always make me laugh.

He is extremely inaccurate. His passes are often high and receivers tend to have to adjust to his throws. It's rare that he leads receivers.

His short and intermediate passes are awful. Bubble screens, swing passes, slants, etc...all inaccurate and the receiver has to adjust. And a big reason for his inaccurate passes is his awful footwork and mechanics. It's very difficult to tell a 6 year NFL vet to forget everything he's learned up to this point and start from scratch. You can't develop someone who has already been developed. You can tweek things, but that's about it. I'd much rather Harbaugh spend all that developmental time on a rookie or a 2nd, 3rd year QB who is raw.

Alex isn't raw (like Steve was). He is a poor QB. His ceiling is game manager.

Steve was better than Alex...but lets sway he was worse than Alex in Tampa....for every Steve Young that makes it....there are 100's of Trent Dilfers, Gus Ferrote's, Heath Shulers that don't!
Interesting stat, BobS. Please post your source, as I would love to study them, too. For you sake, I hope you are not making this up because many Alex haters have such a bias against Alex that they sometimes post fictitious claims about him. One's reputation for credibility is a valuable asset and must be protected at all costs.
Originally posted by JayBee:
The Alex Smith apologists always make me laugh.

He is extremely inaccurate. His passes are often high and receivers tend to have to adjust to his throws. It's rare that he leads receivers.

His short and intermediate passes are awful. Bubble screens, swing passes, slants, etc...all inaccurate and the receiver has to adjust. And a big reason for his inaccurate passes is his awful footwork and mechanics. It's very difficult to tell a 6 year NFL vet to forget everything he's learned up to this point and start from scratch. You can't develop someone who has already been developed. You can tweek things, but that's about it. I'd much rather Harbaugh spend all that developmental time on a rookie or a 2nd, 3rd year QB who is raw.

Alex isn't raw (like Steve was). He is a poor QB. His ceiling is game manager.

Steve was better than Alex...but lets sway he was worse than Alex in Tampa....for every Steve Young that makes it....there are 100's of Trent Dilfers, Gus Ferrote's, Heath Shulers that don't!

This!
Originally posted by JayBee:
The Alex Smith apologists always make me laugh.

He is extremely inaccurate. His passes are often high and receivers tend to have to adjust to his throws. It's rare that he leads receivers.

His short and intermediate passes are awful. Bubble screens, swing passes, slants, etc...all inaccurate and the receiver has to adjust. And a big reason for his inaccurate passes is his awful footwork and mechanics. It's very difficult to tell a 6 year NFL vet to forget everything he's learned up to this point and start from scratch. You can't develop someone who has already been developed. You can tweek things, but that's about it. I'd much rather Harbaugh spend all that developmental time on a rookie or a 2nd, 3rd year QB who is raw.
That's just the point. Smith had a bunch of defensive coaches trying to "develop" him. Until Mike Johnson, he never had anyone who had even played the position at any level after high school. Not coincidentally, it was under Johnson that his rating was 90+.

It is pretty clear that the overwhelming majority of this board now accepts Harbaugh as being a legit developer of QBs, and that Alex Smith has clearly emerged as the best short-term answer at QB for the upcoming season, whenever it starts. The fact that Harbaugh has spent as much time with Smith as he had should be clear indicator to everyone that Harbaugh has seen enough in Smith to be worth trying to keep him here. If JH saw nothing in Smith, he would not be spending time there.

[ Edited by dj43 on Feb 14, 2011 at 09:12:18 ]
Originally posted by JayBee:
The Alex Smith apologists always make me laugh.

He is extremely inaccurate. His passes are often high and receivers tend to have to adjust to his throws. It's rare that he leads receivers.

His short and intermediate passes are awful. Bubble screens, swing passes, slants, etc...all inaccurate and the receiver has to adjust. And a big reason for his inaccurate passes is his awful footwork and mechanics. It's very difficult to tell a 6 year NFL vet to forget everything he's learned up to this point and start from scratch. You can't develop someone who has already been developed. You can tweek things, but that's about it. I'd much rather Harbaugh spend all that developmental time on a rookie or a 2nd, 3rd year QB who is raw.

Alex isn't raw (like Steve was). He is a poor QB. His ceiling is game manager.

Steve was better than Alex...but lets sway he was worse than Alex in Tampa....for every Steve Young that makes it....there are 100's of Trent Dilfers, Gus Ferrote's, Heath Shulers that don't!

its pretty easy for him to forget everything he has learned a new system practically every year

and about developing him he hasnt had the chance to be developed only person who did was norv turner and mike johnson in 2006 norv turner did very good with alex smith and alex played ok considering our team
under mike johnson this year he had a rating of i believe 93 when he was OC

other than that his teachers were nolan, raye hostler and sing
all whom are less than desirable coaches to develop a project qb
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by JayBee:
The Alex Smith apologists always make me laugh.

He is extremely inaccurate. His passes are often high and receivers tend to have to adjust to his throws. It's rare that he leads receivers.

His short and intermediate passes are awful. Bubble screens, swing passes, slants, etc...all inaccurate and the receiver has to adjust. And a big reason for his inaccurate passes is his awful footwork and mechanics. It's very difficult to tell a 6 year NFL vet to forget everything he's learned up to this point and start from scratch. You can't develop someone who has already been developed. You can tweek things, but that's about it. I'd much rather Harbaugh spend all that developmental time on a rookie or a 2nd, 3rd year QB who is raw.

Alex isn't raw (like Steve was). He is a poor QB. His ceiling is game manager.

Steve was better than Alex...but lets sway he was worse than Alex in Tampa....for every Steve Young that makes it....there are 100's of Trent Dilfers, Gus Ferrote's, Heath Shulers that don't!

its pretty easy for him to forget everything he has learned a new system practically every year

and about developing him he hasnt had the chance to be developed only person who did was norv turner and mike johnson in 2006 norv turner did very good with alex smith and alex played ok considering our team
under mike johnson this year he had a rating of i believe 93 when he was OC

other than that his teachers were nolan, raye hostler and sing
all whom are less than desirable coaches to develop a project qb

Fundamentals are exactly that, fundamental. They don't change from coach to coach, they don't change from team to team, or even collage to pros. If Alex really wanted to be a winner he would have hired an offseason trainer with experience in the fundamentals.

Hostler, is not a bad QB coach, Alex has never put in the offseason work to warrant all the loyalty his fans give him.

I've never seen heard or read about Alex working with WR's in the offseason, I've never seen heard or read about Alex running hills, or working with other QB's or even with a retired coach or personal position trainer, have you?

Have you ever even read about Alex staying late with his receivers DURING the season? Alex putting in extra work to get better?

Don't make Alex a victim, he is a grown man. He has not done the extra work pro's do to elevate themselves, he does not deserve your loyalty and respect.

Is it too late, no of course not, but what is he doing RIGHT NOW to improve his game?

Were are the stories of running his, throwing a hundred passes a day, or meeting with anyone, to work on FUNDAMENTALS!

Alex fails because his fundamental mechanics suck! Alex ONLY YOU CAN FIX THIS!
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by JayBee:
The Alex Smith apologists always make me laugh.

He is extremely inaccurate. His passes are often high and receivers tend to have to adjust to his throws. It's rare that he leads receivers.

His short and intermediate passes are awful. Bubble screens, swing passes, slants, etc...all inaccurate and the receiver has to adjust. And a big reason for his inaccurate passes is his awful footwork and mechanics. It's very difficult to tell a 6 year NFL vet to forget everything he's learned up to this point and start from scratch. You can't develop someone who has already been developed. You can tweek things, but that's about it. I'd much rather Harbaugh spend all that developmental time on a rookie or a 2nd, 3rd year QB who is raw.

Alex isn't raw (like Steve was). He is a poor QB. His ceiling is game manager.

Steve was better than Alex...but lets sway he was worse than Alex in Tampa....for every Steve Young that makes it....there are 100's of Trent Dilfers, Gus Ferrote's, Heath Shulers that don't!

its pretty easy for him to forget everything he has learned a new system practically every year

and about developing him he hasnt had the chance to be developed only person who did was norv turner and mike johnson in 2006 norv turner did very good with alex smith and alex played ok considering our team
under mike johnson this year he had a rating of i believe 93 when he was OC

other than that his teachers were nolan, raye hostler and sing
all whom are less than desirable coaches to develop a project qb

Fundamentals are exactly that, fundamental. They don't change from coach to coach, they don't change from team to team, or even collage to pros. If Alex really wanted to be a winner he would have hired an offseason trainer with experience in the fundamentals.

Hostler, is not a bad QB coach, Alex has never put in the offseason work to warrant all the loyalty his fans give him.

I've never seen heard or read about Alex working with WR's in the offseason, I've never seen heard or read about Alex running hills, or working with other QB's or even with a retired coach or personal position trainer, have you?

Have you ever even read about Alex staying late with his receivers DURING the season? Alex putting in extra work to get better?

Don't make Alex a victim, he is a grown man. He has not done the extra work pro's do to elevate themselves, he does not deserve your loyalty and respect.

Is it too late, no of course not, but what is he doing RIGHT NOW to improve his game?

Were are the stories of running his, throwing a hundred passes a day, or meeting with anyone, to work on FUNDAMENTALS!

Alex fails because his fundamental mechanics suck! Alex ONLY YOU CAN FIX THIS!


alex works in offseason he worked with crabtree before he signed hes working out with harbrough now and i remember he worked our before 2006 sseason

also hes been meeting with barbrough and working out for him now
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by JayBee:
The Alex Smith apologists always make me laugh.

He is extremely inaccurate. His passes are often high and receivers tend to have to adjust to his throws. It's rare that he leads receivers.

His short and intermediate passes are awful. Bubble screens, swing passes, slants, etc...all inaccurate and the receiver has to adjust. And a big reason for his inaccurate passes is his awful footwork and mechanics. It's very difficult to tell a 6 year NFL vet to forget everything he's learned up to this point and start from scratch. You can't develop someone who has already been developed. You can tweek things, but that's about it. I'd much rather Harbaugh spend all that developmental time on a rookie or a 2nd, 3rd year QB who is raw.

Alex isn't raw (like Steve was). He is a poor QB. His ceiling is game manager.

Steve was better than Alex...but lets sway he was worse than Alex in Tampa....for every Steve Young that makes it....there are 100's of Trent Dilfers, Gus Ferrote's, Heath Shulers that don't!

its pretty easy for him to forget everything he has learned a new system practically every year

and about developing him he hasnt had the chance to be developed only person who did was norv turner and mike johnson in 2006 norv turner did very good with alex smith and alex played ok considering our team
under mike johnson this year he had a rating of i believe 93 when he was OC

other than that his teachers were nolan, raye hostler and sing
all whom are less than desirable coaches to develop a project qb

Fundamentals are exactly that, fundamental. They don't change from coach to coach, they don't change from team to team, or even collage to pros. If Alex really wanted to be a winner he would have hired an offseason trainer with experience in the fundamentals.

Hostler, is not a bad QB coach, Alex has never put in the offseason work to warrant all the loyalty his fans give him.

I've never seen heard or read about Alex working with WR's in the offseason, I've never seen heard or read about Alex running hills, or working with other QB's or even with a retired coach or personal position trainer, have you?

Have you ever even read about Alex staying late with his receivers DURING the season? Alex putting in extra work to get better?

Don't make Alex a victim, he is a grown man. He has not done the extra work pro's do to elevate themselves, he does not deserve your loyalty and respect.

Is it too late, no of course not, but what is he doing RIGHT NOW to improve his game?

Were are the stories of running his, throwing a hundred passes a day, or meeting with anyone, to work on FUNDAMENTALS!

Alex fails because his fundamental mechanics suck! Alex ONLY YOU CAN FIX THIS!


alex works in offseason he worked with crabtree before he signed hes working out with harbrough now and i remember he worked our before 2006 sseason

also hes been meeting with barbrough and working out for him now

Obviously not enough, although I'm glad to hear he is working with Harbaugh!
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by JayBee:
The Alex Smith apologists always make me laugh.

He is extremely inaccurate. His passes are often high and receivers tend to have to adjust to his throws. It's rare that he leads receivers.

His short and intermediate passes are awful. Bubble screens, swing passes, slants, etc...all inaccurate and the receiver has to adjust. And a big reason for his inaccurate passes is his awful footwork and mechanics. It's very difficult to tell a 6 year NFL vet to forget everything he's learned up to this point and start from scratch. You can't develop someone who has already been developed. You can tweek things, but that's about it. I'd much rather Harbaugh spend all that developmental time on a rookie or a 2nd, 3rd year QB who is raw.

Alex isn't raw (like Steve was). He is a poor QB. His ceiling is game manager.

Steve was better than Alex...but lets sway he was worse than Alex in Tampa....for every Steve Young that makes it....there are 100's of Trent Dilfers, Gus Ferrote's, Heath Shulers that don't!

its pretty easy for him to forget everything he has learned a new system practically every year

and about developing him he hasnt had the chance to be developed only person who did was norv turner and mike johnson in 2006 norv turner did very good with alex smith and alex played ok considering our team
under mike johnson this year he had a rating of i believe 93 when he was OC

other than that his teachers were nolan, raye hostler and sing
all whom are less than desirable coaches to develop a project qb

Fundamentals are exactly that, fundamental. They don't change from coach to coach, they don't change from team to team, or even collage to pros. If Alex really wanted to be a winner he would have hired an offseason trainer with experience in the fundamentals.

Hostler, is not a bad QB coach, Alex has never put in the offseason work to warrant all the loyalty his fans give him.

I've never seen heard or read about Alex working with WR's in the offseason, I've never seen heard or read about Alex running hills, or working with other QB's or even with a retired coach or personal position trainer, have you?

Have you ever even read about Alex staying late with his receivers DURING the season? Alex putting in extra work to get better?

Don't make Alex a victim, he is a grown man. He has not done the extra work pro's do to elevate themselves, he does not deserve your loyalty and respect.

Is it too late, no of course not, but what is he doing RIGHT NOW to improve his game?

Were are the stories of running his, throwing a hundred passes a day, or meeting with anyone, to work on FUNDAMENTALS!

Alex fails because his fundamental mechanics suck! Alex ONLY YOU CAN FIX THIS!


alex works in offseason he worked with crabtree before he signed hes working out with harbrough now and i remember he worked our before 2006 sseason

also hes been meeting with barbrough and working out for him now

Obviously not enough, although I'm glad to hear he is working with Harbaugh!

i agree alex isnt exactly the best qb but as a project he needs a good teacher the only one he had so dar was norv and he had a decent year considereing the team thats y im kinda optimistic about him and Harbaugh
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by JayBee:
The Alex Smith apologists always make me laugh.

He is extremely inaccurate. His passes are often high and receivers tend to have to adjust to his throws. It's rare that he leads receivers.

His short and intermediate passes are awful. Bubble screens, swing passes, slants, etc...all inaccurate and the receiver has to adjust. And a big reason for his inaccurate passes is his awful footwork and mechanics. It's very difficult to tell a 6 year NFL vet to forget everything he's learned up to this point and start from scratch. You can't develop someone who has already been developed. You can tweek things, but that's about it. I'd much rather Harbaugh spend all that developmental time on a rookie or a 2nd, 3rd year QB who is raw.

Alex isn't raw (like Steve was). He is a poor QB. His ceiling is game manager.

Steve was better than Alex...but lets sway he was worse than Alex in Tampa....for every Steve Young that makes it....there are 100's of Trent Dilfers, Gus Ferrote's, Heath Shulers that don't!

its pretty easy for him to forget everything he has learned a new system practically every year

and about developing him he hasnt had the chance to be developed only person who did was norv turner and mike johnson in 2006 norv turner did very good with alex smith and alex played ok considering our team
under mike johnson this year he had a rating of i believe 93 when he was OC

other than that his teachers were nolan, raye hostler and sing
all whom are less than desirable coaches to develop a project qb

Fundamentals are exactly that, fundamental. They don't change from coach to coach, they don't change from team to team, or even collage to pros. If Alex really wanted to be a winner he would have hired an offseason trainer with experience in the fundamentals.

Hostler, is not a bad QB coach, Alex has never put in the offseason work to warrant all the loyalty his fans give him.

I've never seen heard or read about Alex working with WR's in the offseason, I've never seen heard or read about Alex running hills, or working with other QB's or even with a retired coach or personal position trainer, have you?

Have you ever even read about Alex staying late with his receivers DURING the season? Alex putting in extra work to get better?

Don't make Alex a victim, he is a grown man. He has not done the extra work pro's do to elevate themselves, he does not deserve your loyalty and respect.

Is it too late, no of course not, but what is he doing RIGHT NOW to improve his game?

Were are the stories of running his, throwing a hundred passes a day, or meeting with anyone, to work on FUNDAMENTALS!

Alex fails because his fundamental mechanics suck! Alex ONLY YOU CAN FIX THIS!
WOW! I'm surprised at this post. You seem like a pretty knowledgeable guy who stays up on a lot of things about the team. Therefore it surprises me to hear you say he hasn't worked in the off-season. There have been numerous stories of his off-season work, however, he has been somewhat limited by injury and the fact he needs other players as well as a good coach to work on things.

IMO, Smith's loyalty has been good news/bad news. He has been loyal to the organization but the organization has never supplied him with a decent position coach prior to Mike Johnson.

During the pre-season this past year, I researched all the other teams to learn the background of QB coaches around the league. What I found was that something like 22 of the 32 teams had former college or pro QBs in the position! Of the remaining 10, all but two, the 49ers and one other team, had players who had played skill positions on offense.

Think about that. Only the 49ers and one other team used DEFENSIVE players to coach the QB position...and that has been the way it has been since Nolan arrived. Consequently, Smith's loyalty has been his greatest enemy. By being loyal to the team coaches instead of going out and hiring his own coach, he has certainly slowed his progress.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by JayBee:
The Alex Smith apologists always make me laugh.

He is extremely inaccurate. His passes are often high and receivers tend to have to adjust to his throws. It's rare that he leads receivers.

His short and intermediate passes are awful. Bubble screens, swing passes, slants, etc...all inaccurate and the receiver has to adjust. And a big reason for his inaccurate passes is his awful footwork and mechanics. It's very difficult to tell a 6 year NFL vet to forget everything he's learned up to this point and start from scratch. You can't develop someone who has already been developed. You can tweek things, but that's about it. I'd much rather Harbaugh spend all that developmental time on a rookie or a 2nd, 3rd year QB who is raw.
That's just the point. Smith had a bunch of defensive coaches trying to "develop" him. Until Mike Johnson, he never had anyone who had even played the position at any level after high school. Not coincidentally, it was under Johnson that his rating was 90+.

It is pretty clear that the overwhelming majority of this board now accepts Harbaugh as being a legit developer of QBs, and that Alex Smith has clearly emerged as the best short-term answer at QB for the upcoming season, whenever it starts. The fact that Harbaugh has spent as much time with Smith as he had should be clear indicator to everyone that Harbaugh has seen enough in Smith to be worth trying to keep him here. If JH saw nothing in Smith, he would not be spending time there.

Defensive coaches don't "develop" QB's. C'mon man. You have an OC and a QB coach for that. Does it help to have an offensive minded HC? When it comes to the offensive side of the ball....of course. But the problem is many of the elite QB's started out with DEFENSIVE head coaches. Peyton, Brady, Romo, Roethlesberger... Then you have the guys who are decent who have learned under defensive coaches... Bradford, Garrard, Eli, etc.

Too many excuses...and if he struggles with Harbaugh, he will have another excuse that he was already "broken" and the damage has already been done.

If there was no threat of a lockout, Alex would not be in the plans. Period.
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by JayBee:
The Alex Smith apologists always make me laugh.

He is extremely inaccurate. His passes are often high and receivers tend to have to adjust to his throws. It's rare that he leads receivers.

His short and intermediate passes are awful. Bubble screens, swing passes, slants, etc...all inaccurate and the receiver has to adjust. And a big reason for his inaccurate passes is his awful footwork and mechanics. It's very difficult to tell a 6 year NFL vet to forget everything he's learned up to this point and start from scratch. You can't develop someone who has already been developed. You can tweek things, but that's about it. I'd much rather Harbaugh spend all that developmental time on a rookie or a 2nd, 3rd year QB who is raw.
That's just the point. Smith had a bunch of defensive coaches trying to "develop" him. Until Mike Johnson, he never had anyone who had even played the position at any level after high school. Not coincidentally, it was under Johnson that his rating was 90+.

It is pretty clear that the overwhelming majority of this board now accepts Harbaugh as being a legit developer of QBs, and that Alex Smith has clearly emerged as the best short-term answer at QB for the upcoming season, whenever it starts. The fact that Harbaugh has spent as much time with Smith as he had should be clear indicator to everyone that Harbaugh has seen enough in Smith to be worth trying to keep him here. If JH saw nothing in Smith, he would not be spending time there.

Defensive coaches don't "develop" QB's. C'mon man. You have an OC and a QB coach for that. Does it help to have an offensive minded HC? When it comes to the offensive side of the ball....of course. But the problem is many of the elite QB's started out with DEFENSIVE head coaches. Peyton, Brady, Romo, Roethlesberger... Then you have the guys who are decent who have learned under defensive coaches... Bradford, Garrard, Eli, etc.

Too many excuses...and if he struggles with Harbaugh, he will have another excuse that he was already "broken" and the damage has already been done.

If there was no threat of a lockout, Alex would not be in the plans. Period.
see my post just above this detailing the fact that 30 out of 32 teams had QB POSITION COACHES to teach the QB.

Peyton is a good example. When he was drafted they brought in Tom Moore to work specifically with Peyton to assure success. At the time, Moore was considered something akin to Jim Harbaugh today. Moore has remained with the team, in charge of the offense up until now when he is "offensive consultant" to Clyde Christianson. It is noteworthy that Tony Dungy, a defensive HC, kept that system in place.

THAT is how you develop a QB, not with guys like Hostler. Do the research man, the evidence if VERY clear. NO TEAM has done less to help out their QB situation than the 49ers have since Garcia left. NONE! They had no clue. That is why they have all been fired! They had the #1 overall pick in the draft and could not have done more to screw it up.