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Official Alex Smith Thread

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
1. Mike Johnson ain't here no more. That throws a lot of your Mike Johnson numbers out the windy.

2. The 49ers are 19-31 in games started by Alex. I'm not cherry picking any one period of his career. Just giving the full info. 19-31.

3. He is INJURY PRONE. Injured in '05, most all of '07, ALL of '08, some of '10. Cannot be relied upon to play all 16 as he has done that once in 6 years.

4. The main argument for Alex is he NEEDS OC CONTINUITY. Well, then why did he REGRESS his 2nd year with Raye? Also, if he needs this continuity, he WILL struggle in '11 to pick up the system. Your basically throwing away '11 so that Alex 'might' get it in '12 .

5. He's Captain Checkdown. He does not read defenses. He looks at one guy and if it's not there, he checks it down. This is why Gore is often our leading WR.

6. He's not a natural leader. Players responded a lot more to Troy than Alex. A lot of the locker room does not like Alex and does not play hard for him.

Point #3 is what a lot of people seem to overlook when talking about Alex. Aside from his 2006 season, he has missed games EVERY YEAR due to injury. He is a tough guy, meaning he gives it his all when he has a chance to play hurt but just because he is tough does not take away from the fact that he is injury prone.

But you can't be statistically average AND be injury prone. AT LEAST be good when you ARE healthy
  • mike
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,827
Alex needs the change of scenery just as much as the niners need a new face at QB. What a coincidence.

Do I think he's worth giving yet another shot with qb-"GOD" as our new coach? Certainly continuity at OC only matters if your OC is competent in the case of jimmy raye. But still..There are multiple reasons I'd still show him the door.

For one, he's the face of losing here. People have absolutely zero faith in him here. He throws a couple incomplete passes in a game where we're down, and he's going to get boo'd. Like I said, he needs the change just as much as we do.

2nd, do we really want him as our veteran stopgap in the case where we draft a rookie? This means that if he gets hurt again midseason, we have to rush in a rookie(the fact is that alex could have been a lot better if he was able to learn under a veteran).

and lastly, with his accuracy issues how is he supposed to fit into a WCO seamlessly? Short/accurate passes? How often has that been the alex we know.

Not a great leader, not a super accurate passer but also doesn't have a cannon arm to make up for it, but most of all he's just not a winner.

So with that, I say have fun in arizona, or wherever else might have some delusional GM that thinks he's gold.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by eac49er23:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by calniners408:
I do not get the argument that Smith didn't have good coaches. Mccarthy? Turner? Martz? Those were really his coaches and he couldn't perform. He didn't even win out for the starting spot for Martz.
You must be new. According to Mike Martz, Alex had progressed to the point in PS that he was ready to take over the job from JT the week he re-injured his shoulder.

LOL wut? Do you not recall Martz ripping Alex a new one on the sideline in that preseason game vs. GB?

This is entirely new to just about everyone. I'd like to see some proof of this so called quote from Martz. Til then, I'm calling buls**t on it.

In any case, (and even if JTO was Martz's pick for the QB position) it doesn't matter. JTO won the starting job by playing pretty well in the preseason that year. Alex played terribly.

Hill was the player who was never given a fair shake with the 49ers...he's always been the best QB on our roster.

um do you not recall that he shoulder was still messed up?

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about...so bye.

dj, I'll try to look up that quote in a bit as soon as I finish studying...could be that I'm mistaken but I honestly don't remember any sort of praise post-injury (esp from Martz). I think most people thought he was done with the 49ers at that point as well.

you ever think that maybe Alex's preseason performance was due to the bone fragment that was floating around in his shoulder? The same bone fragment that caused for him to have a second surgery? The same bone fragment that sent him back to IR? Just admit it that Alex Smith has NEVER had a coach that actually knew how to develop a QB. He had 1 year under Norv Turner in which he excelled and was expected to have a break out season the following year until Turner up and left.

Alex Smith's HC: Nolan and Singletary, both of which no absolutely nothing about developing a QB.

Alex Smith's OC:
1.McCarthy(really not that great of an OC, everyone was bitcing and complaining about how he sucked)
2.Norv Turner(good season)
3.Hostler(enough said)
4.Martz(not really as he was injured)
5.Jimmy Raye (enough said again)
6.Mike Johnson(Showed vast improvement in TD-INT ratio and had a QB rating above 90)
Originally posted by ace130:
Originally posted by fakers23:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
If Harbaugh thinks he might be able to make him better than I'll trust Harbaugh.

I'm glad you got such blind support for Harbaugh,but I don't. No amount of coaching going to turn turd into gold. Just ask the last 2 coaches who tried..

Nolan? Sing? coaches who knew nothing about QBs

Even worse, they know nothing about offense.
Originally posted by fakers23:
Originally posted by ace130:
Originally posted by fakers23:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
If Harbaugh thinks he might be able to make him better than I'll trust Harbaugh.

I'm glad you got such blind support for Harbaugh,but I don't. No amount of coaching going to turn turd into gold. Just ask the last 2 coaches who tried..

Nolan? Sing? coaches who knew nothing about QBs

So because Harbaugh was a former QB. That makes him automaticly an expert. I"m sorry,but a real expert would see the writing on the wall and tell Alex to get loss after 6 years of top ten picks. If Harbaugh wants to prove to me he's as good as some as you claim. Alex wont be on the team next year. If he is. Harbaugh just another guy that got fooled by Alex in shorts..

There is nothing wrong with the 49ers retaining Smith to serve as a future backup. The guy has been more than adequate in that role.
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
1. Mike Johnson ain't here no more. That throws a lot of your Mike Johnson numbers out the windy.

2. The 49ers are 19-31 in games started by Alex. I'm not cherry picking any one period of his career. Just giving the full info. 19-31.

3. He is INJURY PRONE. Injured in '05, most all of '07, ALL of '08, some of '10. Cannot be relied upon to play all 16 as he has done that once in 6 years.

4. The main argument for Alex is he NEEDS OC CONTINUITY. Well, then why did he REGRESS his 2nd year with Raye? Also, if he needs this continuity, he WILL struggle in '11 to pick up the system. Your basically throwing away '11 so that Alex 'might' get it in '12 .

5. He's Captain Checkdown. He does not read defenses. He looks at one guy and if it's not there, he checks it down. This is why Gore is often our leading WR.

6. He's not a natural leader. Players responded a lot more to Troy than Alex. A lot of the locker room does not like Alex and does not play hard for him.

1. Johnson is gone but we have a solid HC who will be calling the plays as well as a solid OC in place.

2. The 49ers are 19-31 when running an offense with a crappy HC who doesn't have a clue about the offensive side of the ball and an overrated defense.

3. I agree with this

4. 2011 is going to be out the window either way. More than likely there will be a lockout which means no OTA's and possibly no TC. One thing that Alex Smith has shown is his ability to deal with and adapt to a new playbook. He has experience in just about every offense out there known to man thanks to having 6 different OC's in his career. While he won't be a master of the offense like he wants to be that doesn't change the fact that he is already used to it by now.

5. Captain Checkdown? Let me guess a little nickname you gave him from this season? Let's seeeee I seem to remember an article that said that players played scared under Singletary. This would include a QB who is doing what the HC wants. Not take risks and take what the defense gives him. Huh last time I checked that needs the ability to read defenses. Gore is often the leading receiver because our OLine is so horrible that Alex doesn't have a lot of time to wait for the plays to develop and has to get rid of the ball. Now who would be already in a position to catch the ball? Oh Oh I know! The RB who just so happens to be Frank Gore...the same Frank Gore that both Nolan and Singletary wanted to focus the offense around. Sorry but there will never be a successful offense focused on a RB.

6. This is all pure speculation. Yes Alex Smith is not a vocal leader. That just isn't his personality he isn't going to go around screaming and yelling at people. He tries to lead by example (honestly the best form of a leader IMO) Show me proof the the players did not like Alex Smith?????
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by eac49er23:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by calniners408:
I do not get the argument that Smith didn't have good coaches. Mccarthy? Turner? Martz? Those were really his coaches and he couldn't perform. He didn't even win out for the starting spot for Martz.
You must be new. According to Mike Martz, Alex had progressed to the point in PS that he was ready to take over the job from JT the week he re-injured his shoulder.

LOL wut? Do you not recall Martz ripping Alex a new one on the sideline in that preseason game vs. GB?

This is entirely new to just about everyone. I'd like to see some proof of this so called quote from Martz. Til then, I'm calling buls**t on it.

In any case, (and even if JTO was Martz's pick for the QB position) it doesn't matter. JTO won the starting job by playing pretty well in the preseason that year. Alex played terribly.

Hill was the player who was never given a fair shake with the 49ers...he's always been the best QB on our roster.

um do you not recall that he shoulder was still messed up?

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about...so bye.

dj, I'll try to look up that quote in a bit as soon as I finish studying...could be that I'm mistaken but I honestly don't remember any sort of praise post-injury (esp from Martz). I think most people thought he was done with the 49ers at that point as well.

you ever think that maybe Alex's preseason performance was due to the bone fragment that was floating around in his shoulder? The same bone fragment that caused for him to have a second surgery? The same bone fragment that sent him back to IR? Just admit it that Alex Smith has NEVER had a coach that actually knew how to develop a QB. He had 1 year under Norv Turner in which he excelled and was expected to have a break out season the following year until Turner up and left.

Alex Smith's HC: Nolan and Singletary, both of which no absolutely nothing about developing a QB.

Alex Smith's OC:
1.McCarthy(really not that great of an OC, everyone was bitcing and complaining about how he sucked)
2.Norv Turner(good season)
3.Hostler(enough said)
4.Martz(not really as he was injured)
5.Jimmy Raye (enough said again)
6.Mike Johnson(Showed vast improvement in TD-INT ratio and had a QB rating above 90)

You ever think that Alex's career performance might be due to the fact that...he's not a good QB? Some revelation huh?

Articles I'm finding from that period point to how Alex Smith is looking strong and back to normal. He re-injured himself. And if he actually was hurt the entire time (despite what reports indicate)...who cares?

Some of you need to realize that being injured IS NOT an excuse for unproven players. Yea it sucks...but tough luck. Injuries have caused a lot of players to fizzle out or never make it in the first place. In Smith's case, I'd argue that his long injury history is only part of what makes him a bottom tier QB.

As for you listing off reasons for his inadequacy (OCs, injuries)...I'll say that if you go and break down Joey Harrington's lack of success with the same level of scrutiny that you do for Alex, you'll just as easily find "excuses" for him. You can find reason behind all NFL failure. Fact is...you have to overcome A LOT to be successful and Alex Smith hasn't shown that he's up to the challenge.

[ Edited by Leathaface on Jan 28, 2011 at 03:14:25 ]
Originally posted by fastforward:
Originally posted by fakers23:
Originally posted by ace130:
Originally posted by fakers23:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
If Harbaugh thinks he might be able to make him better than I'll trust Harbaugh.

I'm glad you got such blind support for Harbaugh,but I don't. No amount of coaching going to turn turd into gold. Just ask the last 2 coaches who tried..

Nolan? Sing? coaches who knew nothing about QBs

So because Harbaugh was a former QB. That makes him automaticly an expert. I"m sorry,but a real expert would see the writing on the wall and tell Alex to get loss after 6 years of top ten picks. If Harbaugh wants to prove to me he's as good as some as you claim. Alex wont be on the team next year. If he is. Harbaugh just another guy that got fooled by Alex in shorts..

There is nothing wrong with the 49ers retaining Smith to serve as a future backup. The guy has been more than adequate in that role.

Smith has indeed had some success in that role. He looked good coming off the bench in 2009 and looked good coming off the bench in 2010.

The problem with him is, when he is EXPECTED to do good, he falters in one way or another.

I just don't think he would be willing to take a back up role with a team that drafted him to be their future 6 years ago. That doesn't make too much sense to me
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by Sims84:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by Sims84:


Originally posted by calniners408:

i could be wrong but he did good under turner atleast a humungous difference after rookie year. turner left. then under marts game 3 keep in mind 2-1 he got injured.... and needed surgery. so your argument here would be disreguarded. if im wrong.... ehh

Well, you are wrong actually because Norv Turner left prior to the 2007 season in which we had Hostler take over the OC duties. Alex never saw the field in 2008 with Martz as the OC. Sullivan and Hill played instead of him, take that for what it's worth

Yeah, he was wrong... Martz was the OC in 2008, not 2007.

To avoid further confusion, you should have mentioned that Alex Smith was also on IR during the entire 2008 season.


Yes, you can put that in there AFTER you say he was already beat out in Training camp and Pre-season by O'Sullivan.

He was placed on IR on September 10th when the season started after the off-season (where the position battles are won and lost).

I was just clarifying the injury issue. Alex Smith was on injured reserve for the entire 2008 season.

If you want to bring up the decisions made by the coaches, we all know how that turned out, don't we?

Yeah... Martz made a mistake.

Oops.

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by eac49er23:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by calniners408:
I do not get the argument that Smith didn't have good coaches. Mccarthy? Turner? Martz? Those were really his coaches and he couldn't perform. He didn't even win out for the starting spot for Martz.
You must be new. According to Mike Martz, Alex had progressed to the point in PS that he was ready to take over the job from JT the week he re-injured his shoulder.

LOL wut? Do you not recall Martz ripping Alex a new one on the sideline in that preseason game vs. GB?

This is entirely new to just about everyone. I'd like to see some proof of this so called quote from Martz. Til then, I'm calling buls**t on it.

In any case, (and even if JTO was Martz's pick for the QB position) it doesn't matter. JTO won the starting job by playing pretty well in the preseason that year. Alex played terribly.

Hill was the player who was never given a fair shake with the 49ers...he's always been the best QB on our roster.

um do you not recall that he shoulder was still messed up?

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about...so bye.

dj, I'll try to look up that quote in a bit as soon as I finish studying...could be that I'm mistaken but I honestly don't remember any sort of praise post-injury (esp from Martz). I think most people thought he was done with the 49ers at that point as well.

you ever think that maybe Alex's preseason performance was due to the bone fragment that was floating around in his shoulder? The same bone fragment that caused for him to have a second surgery? The same bone fragment that sent him back to IR? Just admit it that Alex Smith has NEVER had a coach that actually knew how to develop a QB. He had 1 year under Norv Turner in which he excelled and was expected to have a break out season the following year until Turner up and left.

Alex Smith's HC: Nolan and Singletary, both of which no absolutely nothing about developing a QB.

Alex Smith's OC:
1.McCarthy(really not that great of an OC, everyone was bitcing and complaining about how he sucked)
2.Norv Turner(good season)
3.Hostler(enough said)
4.Martz(not really as he was injured)
5.Jimmy Raye (enough said again)
6.Mike Johnson(Showed vast improvement in TD-INT ratio and had a QB rating above 90)

You ever think that Alex's career performance might be due to the fact that...he's not a good QB? Some revelation huh?

Articles I'm finding from that period point to how Alex Smith is looking strong and back to normal. He re-injured himself. And if he actually was hurt the entire time (despite what reports indicate)...who cares?

Some of you need to realize that being injured IS NOT an excuse for unproven players. Yea it sucks...but tough luck. Injuries have caused a lot of players to fizzle out or never make it in the first place. In Smith's case, I'd argue that his long injury history is only part of what makes him a bottom tier QB.

As for you listing off reasons for his inadequacy (OCs, injuries)...I'll say that if you go and break down Joey Harrington's lack of success with the same level of scrutiny that you do for Alex, you'll just as easily find "excuses" for him. You can find reason behind all NFL failure. Fact is...you have to overcome A LOT to be successful and Alex Smith hasn't shown that he's up to the challenge.

You ever take into consideration that Alex Smith was a project? Even though he was the #1 overall pick doesn't change the fact that he was raw and needed to be coached up to the next level. Did he EVER receive that coaching? The answer to that question is no. Do we finally have a HC that can provide that coaching for him? The answer to that question is now YES.
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by Sims84:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by Sims84:


Originally posted by calniners408:

i could be wrong but he did good under turner atleast a humungous difference after rookie year. turner left. then under marts game 3 keep in mind 2-1 he got injured.... and needed surgery. so your argument here would be disreguarded. if im wrong.... ehh

Well, you are wrong actually because Norv Turner left prior to the 2007 season in which we had Hostler take over the OC duties. Alex never saw the field in 2008 with Martz as the OC. Sullivan and Hill played instead of him, take that for what it's worth

Yeah, he was wrong... Martz was the OC in 2008, not 2007.

To avoid further confusion, you should have mentioned that Alex Smith was also on IR during the entire 2008 season.


Yes, you can put that in there AFTER you say he was already beat out in Training camp and Pre-season by O'Sullivan.

He was placed on IR on September 10th when the season started after the off-season (where the position battles are won and lost).

I was just clarifying the injury issue. Alex Smith was on injured reserve for the entire 2008 season.

If you want to bring up the decisions made by the coaches, we all know how that turned out, don't we?

Yeah... Martz made a mistake.

Oops.


It just strikes me as odd when Martz is known as an Offensive Genius but when it comes to thinking O'Sullivan can run his offense better than Alex can, he is clueless. Any other time though, he is a genius

It never fails
Originally posted by Sims84:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:


martx never coached alex and under norc he had 16 tds in 2nd year not bad for a qb with best WR was what arnaz battle and kwame was ur star T

Alex had Antonio Bryant to throw to that season, which of course, left and became a Pro Bowler

Bryant had only two good seasons 2005 and 2008. Before he signed with the 49ers Bryant already developed quite a reputation of being difficult to deal with. That didn't change after he signed with the 49ers. In 2008, he went to the Pro-Bowl played for a team coached by Jon Gruden with the seasoned Garcia throwing the ball. The stars just aligned for Bryant that year and never did again. The following year with Josh Freeman throwing the ball, Bryant didn't repeat his feat. He went on to sign with the Bengals and was promptly dropped as soon as the Bengals signed T.O.
Originally posted by Sims84:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by Sims84:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by Sims84:


Originally posted by calniners408:

i could be wrong but he did good under turner atleast a humungous difference after rookie year. turner left. then under marts game 3 keep in mind 2-1 he got injured.... and needed surgery. so your argument here would be disreguarded. if im wrong.... ehh

Well, you are wrong actually because Norv Turner left prior to the 2007 season in which we had Hostler take over the OC duties. Alex never saw the field in 2008 with Martz as the OC. Sullivan and Hill played instead of him, take that for what it's worth

Yeah, he was wrong... Martz was the OC in 2008, not 2007.

To avoid further confusion, you should have mentioned that Alex Smith was also on IR during the entire 2008 season.


Yes, you can put that in there AFTER you say he was already beat out in Training camp and Pre-season by O'Sullivan.

He was placed on IR on September 10th when the season started after the off-season (where the position battles are won and lost).

I was just clarifying the injury issue. Alex Smith was on injured reserve for the entire 2008 season.

If you want to bring up the decisions made by the coaches, we all know how that turned out, don't we?

Yeah... Martz made a mistake.

Oops.


It just strikes me as odd when Martz is known as an Offensive Genius but when it comes to thinking O'Sullivan can run his offense better than Alex can, he is clueless. Any other time though, he is a genius

It never fails

Martz also said that JTO was the best QB he has ever been around.......what team is JTO starting for again?
Originally posted by fastforward:
Originally posted by Sims84:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:


martx never coached alex and under norc he had 16 tds in 2nd year not bad for a qb with best WR was what arnaz battle and kwame was ur star T

Alex had Antonio Bryant to throw to that season, which of course, left and became a Pro Bowler

Bryant had only two good seasons 2005 and 2008. Before he signed with the 49ers Bryant already developed quite a reputation of being difficult to deal with. That didn't change after he signed with the 49ers. In 2008, he went to the Pro-Bowl played for a team coached by Jon Gruden with the seasoned Garcia throwing the ball. The stars just aligned for Bryant that year and never did again. The following year with Josh Freeman throwing the ball, Bryant didn't repeat his feat. He went on to sign with the Bengals and was promptly dropped as soon as the Bengals signed T.O.

Ok so Arnaz Battle was not Alex's best target and Bryant later became a Pro Bowler

He has never LACKED talent, he lacked the mental aspect of the game, which is important but to think that Arnaz Battle was a better option when it comes to weapons is just absurd. Bryant has always been a headcase which is why he is out of the league but there is no denying that he very gifted
Why the f**k do we need yet ANOTHER ALEX SMITH THREAD???????????

I'm getting so sick of the subject! If you have an Alex Smith opinion use the search function and I'm sure you will see about 5000 results, pick a thread just STOP CREATING NEW ONES FOR THIS TIRED SUBJECT!