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Stadium question for the people who live in SF

@ bigmur49

I am a resident of San Francisco, and I'm not gonna lie...I want the 49ers to remain playing Football in the City they have played in for 64 years...

The original plan was for Candlestick to be torn down, and to rebuild on the Candlestick Site. But after the York ownership came in they decided that they did not like the Candlestick Park site, due to traffic, and parking.

So our former Mayor, Gavin Newsom sugguested to the Yorks that the Hunter Point site for the 49ers might be better...the Yorks rejected it. And settled on Santa Clara.

But can you imagine a 49er Stadium like AT&T Park? It would be Outstanding!
[ Edited by 9erB4Us on Jan 12, 2011 at 11:58 PM ]
Originally posted by Oskiwaski49:
Originally posted by PaulW:
Because one of the biggest issues with Candlestick is the traffic. There is only 1 way in and 1 way out. It literally takes 2+ hours to get out of the parking lot after games.

This is not true. I've been to who knows how many games, including mnf games, and it has not taken me more than 30 minutes to get out, EVER.

There is only one way in and out, but traffic moves pretty fast. I believe this is just an excuse to get out of SF. Jed clearly doesn't want to play in SF. He wants out.

I call SERIOUS BS on that one.

The MNF game vs the Saints that went into overtime? I got to the freeway 3.5 HOURS after the game ended.

Maybe YOU get out in 30 minutes, but where do you park? When do you leave? If its a blowout, its easy to get out, but if everyone is leaving at the same time, its a nightmare.
Originally posted by 9erB4Us:
@ bigmur49

I am a resident of San Francisco, and I'm not gonna lie...I want the 49ers to remain playing Football in the City they have played in for 64 years...

The original plan was for Candlestick to be torn down, and to rebuild on the Candlestick Site. But after the York ownership came in they decided that they did not like the Candlestick Park site, due to traffic, and parking.

So our former Mayor, Gavin Newsom sugguested to the Yorks that the Hunter Point site for the 49ers might be better...the Yorks rejected it. And settled on Santa Clara.

But can you imagine a 49er Stadium like AT&T Park? It would be Outstanding!

All things being equal, I'd love the Niners to stay at that site....but things aren't equal.

Yes, Gavin Newsome suggested the Ex Navy Shipyard, but you neglect to mention the fact that there is ZERO freeway access to that site and traffic would be MUCH worse as the site is surrounded by water on 3 sides. It would actually require infrastrucure (roads, bridges) that would cost as much as the stadium to make the site viable. Oh, and lets not forget that the Navy Shipyard is currently a toxic waste site. Yes, they are cleaning it up, but try selling the idea to people that we are going to a game at a former toxic waste site.

As for not liking the site...thats not entirely correct.

The Yorks issue was that the stadium is just part of a huge revitalization effor in the Hunters Point area (for those who don't know, Hunters Point is a ghetto). The Stadium wouldn't get the entire site as it would now be surrounded by Condominiums and would require the construction of the worlds largest parking garage right next to the stadium. It would also eliminate the possibility of tailgating.

Moreover, the entire construction effore (stadium, parking garage, condominiums) would put 49er fans in a construction zone for the better part of a decade.

The SC site isn't perfect either, but it is within 1 mile of THREE major freeways, has light right access directly in front and heavy rail within a mile. It also has 3 lane roads (6 lanes both ways) on all sides. Its also right next to a golf course, the Santa Clara Convention Center, Great America and about SIX hotels within a mile. The entire area was CREATED for the purposes of an entertainment district.

Oh, and BTW, the 49ers EXISTING training facility is about 100 feet from the proposed site.

When I hear people scream about the 49ers "leaving" SF, its actually pretty comical.

1) The 49ers are only in SF 10 days a year. The other 355 they are in Santa Clara.

2) Its pretty insulting to suggest that the 49ers are solely the property of SF. The 49ers belong to the entire Bay Area, and Santa Clara (and San Jose which is larger in both size and population than SF) are in the Bay Area.

3) About HALF of the league doesn't play in teh city they have in their name. The Cowboy played in Irving for the past 30 years and just moved to Arlington. The Pats play in Foxboro. The Jets and Giants played in freakin' New Jersey.

Hell, some teams have names in their title that don't even exist!! Tampa Bay? It doesn't exist. The city is called Tampa. They are called Tampa Bay to get a larger fanbase.

Carolina? Find "Carolina" on a map. You can't. There is a North Carolina and a South Carolina. They are called Carolina to what? Thats right, get a larger fan base. Hell...even the Warriors!! Find "Golden State" on a map!!



One final note, and this likely won't be popular. There is SOOO much history and tradition that took place at Candlestick, but people forget how the Niners GOT to the 'stick in the first place. The MAYOR of SF owned the land that was almost worthless swampland and in what can only be called a conflict of interest, sold the land to the city for a stadium...WHILE HE WAS IN OFFICE. The stadium was NEVER a quality facility.

I love the 'stick as much as the next guy, but all this crap has to stop. Id the city comes up with a proposal that works in downtown, fantastic, I'm all for it. Hell, if they can come up with one that works at the Candlestick site, I'm for it. The problem tho is no matter how emotionally attached you are to that location or just the the Niners staying in SF, it isn't feasable.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Jan 13, 2011 at 12:29 AM ]
Originally posted by bigmur49:
I live in Toronto and so I don't exactly get a lot of the local stadium news for the Niners. My question is this:
Why can't the just demolish Candlestick and re-build right there?

Move to Stanford or AT&T for 3 seasons while the build the new Candlestick and then move back when it's done.

Is anything like this even considered in the area. I know they played at Stanford in 89 when they had the earthquake, and I know the XFL team played at the Giants stadium, so why can't they play there?

Not trying to get into a debate, I just don't know all the facts and have been curious.
For the fan watching on TV, playing at AT&T would look great!! (I know they can't stay there because there are not enough seats).

Got off on tangents with other peole...lol. To address your question specifically....

Stanford isn't an option because they would have to play there for several years and it also wouldn't address the other problems at the Candlestick site (the like worlds largest parking garage and the fans being in a construction zone for a decade...condos being built all around it as a method of paying for it).

AT&T is a fabulous site. the Demons of the XFL played there and the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl was played there just about a week ago. It also only seats 42K people compared to the 68K that Candlestick would hold.

Niether of those options works, plus the site just doesn't work.

The worst part is that the city is crying foul on the Niners moving, yet they have rejected almost every plan for a stadium (except one), and they have NOT lived up to their obligations in keeping up Candlestick.

People can make the Niners look like the villains her all they want, but very few of them actually understand why the stadium there is infeasable and are just being emotional about it. I can understand that, but the SF site doesn't make sense. If they come up with one that does, I'm all aboard. ;-)
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Oskiwaski49:
Originally posted by PaulW:
Because one of the biggest issues with Candlestick is the traffic. There is only 1 way in and 1 way out. It literally takes 2+ hours to get out of the parking lot after games.

This is not true. I've been to who knows how many games, including mnf games, and it has not taken me more than 30 minutes to get out, EVER.

There is only one way in and out, but traffic moves pretty fast. I believe this is just an excuse to get out of SF. Jed clearly doesn't want to play in SF. He wants out.

I call SERIOUS BS on that one.

The MNF game vs the Saints that went into overtime? I got to the freeway 3.5 HOURS after the game ended.

Maybe YOU get out in 30 minutes, but where do you park? When do you leave? If its a blowout, its easy to get out, but if everyone is leaving at the same time, its a nightmare.

I call BS as well, the fastest I've ever left is maybe 45min and thats after a pre-season game.

The Eagles game I went to this year took me 3 hours to leave. I was in the dirt lot, backed my car out, got behind this guy and didnt move one inch for 1 1/2 hours.
1st - I thought this Thread was specifically for Individuals who "Live" in San Francisco. *Stadium Question for the people who live in SF*

@Marvin49 - You are entitled to your Opinion In the Stadium Issue, and I am entitled to my opinion, I respectfully Disagree with you. FYI, the citizens of SF voted a total of 3 times for Stadium Measures in SF...all were successful. the York ownership don't want to be in SF.

Marv...I believe you got the HP Stadium Site, mixed up with the Candlestick Stadium Site....Hunters Point sits on 493 acres of land, that site NEEDS No Parking Garage, and the Condos, & Businesses will sit far off from the proposed Stadium. See it for yourself, Google "Lennar Urban San Francisco"

Candlestick Park was going to build a Parking garage for the Yorks, but the Yorks rejected the garage, saying that it would ruin the gameday experience of their fans. Yet the Yorks are going to build a parking garage in Santa Clara, due to lack of Parking.

Incidently Candlestick sits on 89 Acres of land, and the Santa Clara Proposed Stadium Site sits on 14 Acres of land...

And yeah, I guess you could call me *old school* for honoring the legacy, tradition, and history of the 49ers in the City of SF. The Morabito Family Lobbied the NFL for a reason to bring an NFL team to the City of SF.

The 9ers have been in Santa Clara for 20 years, before that the teams Practice Facility was in Redwood City, that tenure was longer...

Candlestick was built for the SF Giants in 1960, the 49ers played at Kezar up until
1972...Then the 49ers joined the Giants at the Stick, until Giants went to Pac Bell.

As far as the City of SF Not keeping their side of the bargin in the upkeep of the Stick...ATTENTION: S.F. Chronicle 12/24/10 - "49ers, SF likely to extend lease"
*The deal settles a $60 mil maintenance claim the team had filed against the City. The team will get rent credit for completing $6.5mil in lasped maintenance work over the next 2 years that the city was obligated to handle...Like paving the parking Lot, Flood Control work for the Parking Lot, Replacing seats, and Fixing leaks in Luxury Suites, and to fix the Bathrooms.*

Btw...I also lived in Santa Clara too, so I know that area around the proposed SC stadium very well, and Freeway access ain't all that. Great America Amusement park does not sit right in front of the freeway.

Also check this out, this is Candlestick rebuilt - LINK
http://inhabitat.com/will-a-greener-stadium-plan-allow-san-francisco-to-keep-its-49ers/

And Marv...let just say we agree to disagree, cuz I don't want NO back & forth with you. You are entitled to your opinion...
Originally posted by Oskiwaski49:
Originally posted by PaulW:
Because one of the biggest issues with Candlestick is the traffic. There is only 1 way in and 1 way out. It literally takes 2+ hours to get out of the parking lot after games.

This is not true. I've been to who knows how many games, including mnf games, and it has not taken me more than 30 minutes to get out, EVER.

I'm calling BS.

If you're a regular fan parking in the lot, there's no way you get out in 30 minutes or less.
sorry dude... but that ecostadium is uglier than the current design. And traffic should flow much smoother.

Currently exiting out through 101 isnt too bad, but if you are forced to go through Carroll Ave into Hunters Point traffic is awful.

I'll take Tasman Ave. and Great America Pkwy, highway 237 and 101 anyday over Hunters point.
No one here takes the cal train line to candlestick? You have to walk quite a bit, and the train comes every hour, but still beats sitting in a car for a few hours.
Originally posted by modninerfan:
sorry dude... but that ecostadium is uglier than the current design. And traffic should flow much smoother.

Currently exiting out through 101 isnt too bad, but if you are forced to go through Carroll Ave into Hunters Point traffic is awful.

I'll take Tasman Ave. and Great America Pkwy, highway 237 and 101 anyday over Hunters point.


As a North Bay resident I can testify that there's just no real good way out of the Stick and the City. I'm willing to deal with the extra 35 miles (each way) to avoid the nightmare . . . or I could avoid the parking completely and take BART/ACE or Caltrain/VTA practically to the stadium steps.
Originally posted by 9erB4Us:
1st - I thought this Thread was specifically for Individuals who "Live" in San Francisco. *Stadium Question for the people who live in SF*

@Marvin49 - You are entitled to your Opinion In the Stadium Issue, and I am entitled to my opinion, I respectfully Disagree with you. FYI, the citizens of SF voted a total of 3 times for Stadium Measures in SF...all were successful. the York ownership don't want to be in SF.

Marv...I believe you got the HP Stadium Site, mixed up with the Candlestick Stadium Site....Hunters Point sits on 493 acres of land, that site NEEDS No Parking Garage, and the Condos, & Businesses will sit far off from the proposed Stadium. See it for yourself, Google "Lennar Urban San Francisco"

Candlestick Park was going to build a Parking garage for the Yorks, but the Yorks rejected the garage, saying that it would ruin the gameday experience of their fans. Yet the Yorks are going to build a parking garage in Santa Clara, due to lack of Parking.

Incidently Candlestick sits on 89 Acres of land, and the Santa Clara Proposed Stadium Site sits on 14 Acres of land...

And yeah, I guess you could call me *old school* for honoring the legacy, tradition, and history of the 49ers in the City of SF. The Morabito Family Lobbied the NFL for a reason to bring an NFL team to the City of SF.

The 9ers have been in Santa Clara for 20 years, before that the teams Practice Facility was in Redwood City, that tenure was longer...

Candlestick was built for the SF Giants in 1960, the 49ers played at Kezar up until
1972...Then the 49ers joined the Giants at the Stick, until Giants went to Pac Bell.

As far as the City of SF Not keeping their side of the bargin in the upkeep of the Stick...ATTENTION: S.F. Chronicle 12/24/10 - "49ers, SF likely to extend lease"
*The deal settles a $60 mil maintenance claim the team had filed against the City. The team will get rent credit for completing $6.5mil in lasped maintenance work over the next 2 years that the city was obligated to handle...Like paving the parking Lot, Flood Control work for the Parking Lot, Replacing seats, and Fixing leaks in Luxury Suites, and to fix the Bathrooms.*

Btw...I also lived in Santa Clara too, so I know that area around the proposed SC stadium very well, and Freeway access ain't all that. Great America Amusement park does not sit right in front of the freeway.

Also check this out, this is Candlestick rebuilt - LINK
http://inhabitat.com/will-a-greener-stadium-plan-allow-san-francisco-to-keep-its-49ers/

And Marv...let just say we agree to disagree, cuz I don't want NO back & forth with you. You are entitled to your opinion...

First off, don't get me started on your "Fans that live in SF thing"...thats part of the entire problem, but I digress...

I know you said no back and forth, and we can agree to disagree....but there are problems with your statements. I'm not going to let you try to blow holes in what I was saying and then walk away without responding. Sorry. ;-)

1) The plan rejected by the Yorks includes not just a parking garage, but the WORLDS LARGEST parking garage. The fan experience the Yorks are referring to is tailgaiting, which you can't do in a garage. The Condos would take up the space that is currently used as a dirt parking lot right next to the regular parking. Those spaces would need to be accounted for....thus, the parking garage.

2) I also didn't get the sites confused. The Ex Navy Shipyard wouldn't require that Parking Garage, but it WOULD require MAJOR road improvements and possibly a flyover bridge. The cost of those improvements could be as much as the stadium. That site currently has ZERO freeway access and is also a Toxic Waste site.

3) The garage that would be built in SC was approved BEFORE the stadium site moved and has nothing to do with the 49ers. It was approved for the Convention Center. Its also MUCH, MUCH smaller and across the street.

4) The 14 Acres of land is a bit inaccurate. Thats the size of the lot the stadium would sit on, but it doesn't account for the overflow parking lot for the Convention Center and Great America that sits NEXT to the stadium.

5) The article you are referencing is from last year. The city hasn't maintained the stadium as the promised for the previous TEN years. Escalators that don't work, Elevators that don't work, flooding parking lots...etc, etc. This one isn't an opinion. Its a fact.

6) Its all good to want the team to stay in SF. Truth be told, I would rather the team stayed there. I'd love it if they could figure some way to put the team in downtown or figure out a workable plan for the Candlestick site. The problem tho is that they haven't.

7) Yes...the 49ers HQ was in Redwood City before it was in SC....and that just serves my point. They belong to the Bay Area, not just the City of SF.

8) The Freeway access is 50 times better than Candlestick. Say whatever you want about it, but the access to the site is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better than Candlestick today. I never said that freeways were right in front of Great America. I may have been confusing, so for that I appologize. I was trying to say that Light Rail is right in front of the stadium site (Tasman Dr.).


Its all good. We can agree to disagree. The SC plan has issues as well. Many residents are worried it would create problems at rush hour. Some of the stadium parking will come from the parking lots of local businesses and they aren't all that wild about fans tailgating there. Great America isn't wild about the idea (tho I think they are just posturing to get someone to buy the park from them).

In the end tho, IMO, the SC plan is much more viable than the SF plan. If all things were equal, I'd want them to stay in SF.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Jan 13, 2011 at 10:19 AM ]
lol you guys fighting over traffic time out of the park

from what I remember they wanted to include a plan to re structure the freeway system around the stadium and that would have cost a gagillian dollars in SF so they said screw
Originally posted by modninerfan:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Oskiwaski49:
Originally posted by PaulW:
Because one of the biggest issues with Candlestick is the traffic. There is only 1 way in and 1 way out. It literally takes 2+ hours to get out of the parking lot after games.

This is not true. I've been to who knows how many games, including mnf games, and it has not taken me more than 30 minutes to get out, EVER.

There is only one way in and out, but traffic moves pretty fast. I believe this is just an excuse to get out of SF. Jed clearly doesn't want to play in SF. He wants out.

I call SERIOUS BS on that one.

The MNF game vs the Saints that went into overtime? I got to the freeway 3.5 HOURS after the game ended.

Maybe YOU get out in 30 minutes, but where do you park? When do you leave? If its a blowout, its easy to get out, but if everyone is leaving at the same time, its a nightmare.

I call BS as well, the fastest I've ever left is maybe 45min and thats after a pre-season game.

The Eagles game I went to this year took me 3 hours to leave. I was in the dirt lot, backed my car out, got behind this guy and didnt move one inch for 1 1/2 hours.

Exactly.

If you are in the paved lot, its probably easier to get out. If you are in the dirt lot tho, you're better off going to your car and taking a nap till it clears. up.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Jan 13, 2011 at 10:26 AM ]
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by modninerfan:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Oskiwaski49:
Originally posted by PaulW:
Because one of the biggest issues with Candlestick is the traffic. There is only 1 way in and 1 way out. It literally takes 2+ hours to get out of the parking lot after games.

This is not true. I've been to who knows how many games, including mnf games, and it has not taken me more than 30 minutes to get out, EVER.

There is only one way in and out, but traffic moves pretty fast. I believe this is just an excuse to get out of SF. Jed clearly doesn't want to play in SF. He wants out.

I call SERIOUS BS on that one.

The MNF game vs the Saints that went into overtime? I got to the freeway 3.5 HOURS after the game ended.

Maybe YOU get out in 30 minutes, but where do you park? When do you leave? If its a blowout, its easy to get out, but if everyone is leaving at the same time, its a nightmare.

I call BS as well, the fastest I've ever left is maybe 45min and thats after a pre-season game.

The Eagles game I went to this year took me 3 hours to leave. I was in the dirt lot, backed my car out, got behind this guy and didnt move one inch for 1 1/2 hours.

Exactly.

If you are in the paved lot, its probably easier to get out. If you are in the dirt lot tho, your better off going to your car and taking a nap till it clears. up.


I don't know if they still allow this, but my buddies and I used to tail-gate after the game while waiting for traffic to clear up. Our new M.O. is that we park down town off Van Ness, throw-down some pre-game grub and cocktails at Tommy's Joynt, then take Muni to the Stick. A lot less hassle and traffic.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
All things being equal, I'd love the Niners to stay at that site....but things aren't equal.

Yes, Gavin Newsome suggested the Ex Navy Shipyard, but you neglect to mention the fact that there is ZERO freeway access to that site and traffic would be MUCH worse as the site is surrounded by water on 3 sides. It would actually require infrastrucure (roads, bridges) that would cost as much as the stadium to make the site viable.

That infrastructure will be done with or without the stadium. People can parrot that that is a problem as much as they want but it's happening. The bridge over Yosemite Slough is coming soon, again stadium or no stadium, and there is going to be all kinds of new roads, as well as mass public transportation going to and from the Lennar site either way.