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What kind of defense does Vic Fangio run? (Hint: You might have seen it today)

I love all the people blaming Manusky for how terrible our DBs are. It is a credit to him that our d was as good as it was.
Harbaugh will install the guy he feels most comfortable with as DC...it'll probably be Fangio. As for Manusky, he could get the Carolina head coaching job. One thing in favor of him potentially staying is that Harbaugh said where upgrades are needed (mostly referring to players) he'd make them. But, the same thing could apply to Fangio WRT player upgrades. BL: it's a nice problem to have if you're Harbaugh.
Originally posted by zeppfan1:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Honestly, I'd prefer to have Manusky at DC for another year, and hire Fangio as the LB/Asst. HC. If Manusky doesn't improve the secondary and pass rush, you can easily fire him for Fangio.

DC: Manusky
DL: Tomsula
LB: Fangio, Tarver
DB: Joseph, ???

I would like to see Manusky return as well.

GAG!!!!
no thanks keep Manusky and fix the secondary and OLB please
Yea I'm not the biggest Manusky fan, but looking at this guy Fangio's track record they might wanna stick with Manusky one more year. Fangio's NFL track record doens't look like anything to write home about. All this Dom Capers talk would be great if they were hiring Dom Capers. We all see 1st hand that Manusky is not Wade Phillips, so it's more than jumping the gun to think the niners defense will look like the Packers defense from last night. The Niners will have to find there Clay Matthews and Charles Woodson b/c there isn't any player on this team capable of executing the scheme the Packers employed.
Originally posted by PTulini:
Quote:
January 9, 2011

Fangio, Capers have similar 3-4 origins

Anyone wondering what a 49ers defense might look like under Vic Fangio -- assuming the Stanford defensive coordinator joins Jim Harbaugh in Santa Clara - ought to hit re-wind on today's Green Bay Packers game. Fangio and Green Bay's defensive coordinator, Dom Capers, have a long history together. Fangio twice has served as Capers' defensive coordinator when Capers was head coach in Carolina and Houston.

The two started coaching professional football together under Jim Mora for the Philadelphia/Baltimore Stars of the USFL. That team's famed "Doghouse Defense" blitzed often and was one of the first to bring pass rushers from an array of angles. Many of the blitzes Capers uses today had their origins in the USFL 25 years ago and the experience influenced both men. The Stars appeared in all three of the league's championship games and won two of them.

When the USFL folded, Mora was hired as the Saints head coach. Fangio followed him to New Orleans where he coached linebackers. The Saints initially used a 4-3 defense but eventually turned to a 3-4 system that featured the "Dome Patrol" - a fearsome linebacking corps that included All-Pro linebackers Rickey Jackson, Pat Swilling, Sam Mills and Vaughan Johnson. (Incidentally, where have all the good nicknames gone?)

Fangio was Mora's defensive coordinator in Indianapolis from 1999-2001. Mora was fired after the 2001 season in part because he refused to fire Fangio after the defense finished 29th in the league. (More rankings below). The next season Fangio was hired by Capers as his defensive coordinator in Houston.

Fangio has operated both 4-3 and 3-4 schemes but, like Capers, he seems to prefer the latter. Last year he took over Stanford's wobbly 4-3 system, transformed it into a 3-4 (the Cardinal actually played out of both formations at times) and allowed opponents 17.8 points per game this past season, the best average in the Pac-10 and 11th in the nation.

And, of course, Fangio would take over a 3-4 defense should he join the 49ers. The team's current defensive coordinator, Greg Manusky, interviewed for the Panthers head coaching job on Saturday.

Fangio spent 11 NFL seasons as a defensive coordinator. The Panthers and Texans were expansion teams when he joined them. Here are the respective rankings of Fangio's defenses.

Carolina
1995: 7th
1996: 10th
1997: 15th
1998: 30th (last in the league)

Indianapolis
1999: 15th
2000: 21st
2001: 29th

Houston
2002: 16th
2003: 31st
2004: 23rd
2005: 31st

Monday: 3-4 or 4-3; What should the 49ers run?

-- Matt Barrows


Funny how a lot of the "articles" on the webzone happen to pop up shortly after nearly identical articles by real journalists named Barrows or Maiocco are posted on the web.
[ Edited by FiatGlory on Jan 10, 2011 at 8:27 AM ]
Originally posted by PTulini:
Quote:
January 9, 2011

Fangio, Capers have similar 3-4 origins

Anyone wondering what a 49ers defense might look like under Vic Fangio -- assuming the Stanford defensive coordinator joins Jim Harbaugh in Santa Clara - ought to hit re-wind on today's Green Bay Packers game. Fangio and Green Bay's defensive coordinator, Dom Capers, have a long history together. Fangio twice has served as Capers' defensive coordinator when Capers was head coach in Carolina and Houston.

The two started coaching professional football together under Jim Mora for the Philadelphia/Baltimore Stars of the USFL. That team's famed "Doghouse Defense" blitzed often and was one of the first to bring pass rushers from an array of angles. Many of the blitzes Capers uses today had their origins in the USFL 25 years ago and the experience influenced both men. The Stars appeared in all three of the league's championship games and won two of them.

When the USFL folded, Mora was hired as the Saints head coach. Fangio followed him to New Orleans where he coached linebackers. The Saints initially used a 4-3 defense but eventually turned to a 3-4 system that featured the "Dome Patrol" - a fearsome linebacking corps that included All-Pro linebackers Rickey Jackson, Pat Swilling, Sam Mills and Vaughan Johnson. (Incidentally, where have all the good nicknames gone?)

Fangio was Mora's defensive coordinator in Indianapolis from 1999-2001. Mora was fired after the 2001 season in part because he refused to fire Fangio after the defense finished 29th in the league. (More rankings below). The next season Fangio was hired by Capers as his defensive coordinator in Houston.

Fangio has operated both 4-3 and 3-4 schemes but, like Capers, he seems to prefer the latter. Last year he took over Stanford's wobbly 4-3 system, transformed it into a 3-4 (the Cardinal actually played out of both formations at times) and allowed opponents 17.8 points per game this past season, the best average in the Pac-10 and 11th in the nation.

And, of course, Fangio would take over a 3-4 defense should he join the 49ers. The team's current defensive coordinator, Greg Manusky, interviewed for the Panthers head coaching job on Saturday.

Fangio spent 11 NFL seasons as a defensive coordinator. The Panthers and Texans were expansion teams when he joined them. Here are the respective rankings of Fangio's defenses.

Carolina
1995: 7th
1996: 10th
1997: 15th
1998: 30th (last in the league)

Indianapolis
1999: 15th
2000: 21st
2001: 29th

Houston
2002: 16th
2003: 31st
2004: 23rd
2005: 31st

Monday: 3-4 or 4-3; What should the 49ers run?

-- Matt Barrows




Read more: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2011/01/fangio-capers-h.html#ixzz1AbkSf7v3

wow his defense got worst every year...
  • dmax
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 5,832
Originally posted by zeppfan1:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Honestly, I'd prefer to have Manusky at DC for another year, and hire Fangio as the LB/Asst. HC. If Manusky doesn't improve the secondary and pass rush, you can easily fire him for Fangio.

DC: Manusky
DL: Tomsula
LB: Fangio, Tarver
DB: Joseph, ???

I would like to see Manusky return as well.

HELL NO

Vanilla bland, bend but dont break defense
[ Edited by dmax on Jan 10, 2011 at 8:32 AM ]
Shouldn't take too much into account the sliding Fangio defensive ranking, there were many factors that went into the results. It's what have he done lately. He improved Stanford's defense and had them playing well. His buddy Dom Capers is doing the same thing over at Greenbay after a lot of moving around from team to team or you can say 'failures'. I would love to have Fangio here.
  • hb123
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 210
idk mayne, i think manusky is better! :/
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Wouldn't mind having Manusky back. We get no pass rush from Haralson and Lawson plus a horrid secondary and we still ranked 13 in total defense.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

wait we get no pass rush from Manny Lawson?

or we get the most efficient pass rush from anyone in the NFL through week 12 from Manny Lawson...hmm....

I wouldn't take those stats at face value. Manny is not a good pass rusher.
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Wouldn't mind having Manusky back. We get no pass rush from Haralson and Lawson plus a horrid secondary and we still ranked 13 in total defense.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

wait we get no pass rush from Manny Lawson?

or we get the most efficient pass rush from anyone in the NFL through week 12 from Manny Lawson...hmm....

I wouldn't take those stats at face value. Manny is not a good pass rusher.

lol so the guys that watched all the film and broke down the play per play stats are wrong, and the guy who just watched the 49ers on the couch and didnt remember Lawson getting that many sacks is right?
Originally posted by nw49erfan:
Originally posted by Gelb1472:
According to MB's blog post Fangio's defensive rankings have gotten markedly worse with each subsequent year that he is the DC on a team. Yet he apparently has the same origins as Dom Capers who ran the GB defense all over Vick and Philly tonight. Can anyone provide detailed analysis as to why with such a powerful system, Fangio is consistently plagued with defenses getting worse under his control rather than better?

I've been an avid fan 88-89. It's actually pretty simple why the defense declined. They simply got old in Carolina. When Bill Polian and Dom Camper put together the Panther from the expansion years they spent most of their draft choices on Kerry Collins and the rest of the offense. They used Free agents and the expansion draft which was filled with older veterans to build their defense.

In Indianapolis they simple didn't have much talent which is why they hired Tony Dungy to install the cover 2 defense which is more of a bend but don't break defense. Even today they try and make you drive the entire field by not giving up big plays.

Houston was another expansion team.

Exactly. The only defensive players I can remember from those Carolina teams were Kevin Greene and Sam Mills, who were both old by that time. In Houston they didn't have a defensive player until Mario Williams. They had a steady stream of busts. Travis Johnson comes to mind. And in Indianapolis, who can remember a defensive player before Dwight Freeney?

If Fangio has talent, he will get the job done, and at this point, we do have some talent on the defensive side of the ball and I think he would do a much better job than Manusky.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Wouldn't mind having Manusky back. We get no pass rush from Haralson and Lawson plus a horrid secondary and we still ranked 13 in total defense.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

wait we get no pass rush from Manny Lawson?

or we get the most efficient pass rush from anyone in the NFL through week 12 from Manny Lawson...hmm....

I've been saying this for a long... long time. People want to see the sack stats... but if you are running away from the line of scrimmage or pegging the edge as part of your assignment you aren't in a position to get a sack. I remember when Julian Peterson was in his contract/last year with the 9ers and people all went off about how he doesn't get sacks. How can you get sacks when you are covering receivers? Lawson is underrated amungst 9ers fans... the experts will want to sign him to a big contract.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Wouldn't mind having Manusky back. We get no pass rush from Haralson and Lawson plus a horrid secondary and we still ranked 13 in total defense.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

wait we get no pass rush from Manny Lawson?

or we get the most efficient pass rush from anyone in the NFL through week 12 from Manny Lawson...hmm....

I wouldn't take those stats at face value. Manny is not a good pass rusher.

lol so the guys that watched all the film and broke down the play per play stats are wrong, and the guy who just watched the 49ers on the couch and didnt remember Lawson getting that many sacks is right?

It is a common mistake that fans of this team make, if a player isn't pro bowl every year, he is a bust and should be immediately cut so we can sign the best one in the league even if he is unavailable.
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