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This is getting old real quick

Anybody who suggests that is an idiot. Plain and simple. Has nothing to do with being biased either. There isn't one team in the NFL that wouldn't want him and aside from somebody stupid like the Raiders, nobody would trade him. And not a franchise changing position? You've got to be kidding me lol.
Originally posted by WillisToHOF:
Originally posted by NinerJedi:
Originally posted by ninerlifer:
Originally posted by kezar49er:
Originally posted by ObePwnD:
Originally posted by WillisToHOF:
ive seen it a couple times in some different threads and im sick of seeing people actually suggesting trade Willis for a freakin better draft pick to get Luck. its a terrible idea to get rid of a sure All-pro player and our best Defensive player by a large margin for a f**kin rookie.
there are smarter ways to to get a (potentially) good QB on this team w/o getting rid of the best thing we've got goin for us.

I'd have to agree with you, that is some dumb sht. Yesterday I was verbally assaulted for saying this place was an interesting study in human psychology and I stand by that. The drama you've been seeing over the last few days is what happens when people get desperate and feel there is no hope. I see no difference from what's going on in here than from people jumping from the windows of a burning building, no difference at all.

Now why would you give up a known quality, a 4-straight years to the pro bowl known quality, for something that might not pan out. Don't get me wrong, i want Luck to be a Niner, but there are other fools on this team that we can be dealt, for God sake. Give up two, three players if need be, but not the best fckin LB in the league.

I didnt know the off season had started and the trade scenarios had began. Ok, how about V.D and our #1 for Luck or the best QB after the combine.

That is more feasible. TEs can be replaced. The best deffensive player in the NFL cant.

The best defensive player right now is Troy Polamalu. He can singlehandedly turn the game around with a pick-6, sack, or forced fumble. Patrick Willis can tackle everybody on the field, but is just not as dynamic. I would not be willing to trade VD. He is just too dynamic and could score a TD anytime. Other teams probably rack their brains trying to gameplan against VD.

Our #1 priority should be to rebuild our offense and we can't trade away the few offensive playmakers we have.

Willis does singlehandedly turn games around. he does get pick 6's.he has six sacks on the season with a team that rarely sends him on the blitz. he forces fumbles. do you even watch the guy.

For real though.

On his VD argument...look I agree, but I would totally TOTALLY have a Franchise QB than a TE that is fast. Sorry....I would lean in favor of trading VD for and our #1 for the #1 overall. TE's can be found a dime a dozen.
Originally posted by ninerlifer:
Originally posted by WillisToHOF:
Originally posted by NinerJedi:
Originally posted by ninerlifer:
Originally posted by kezar49er:
Originally posted by ObePwnD:
Originally posted by WillisToHOF:
ive seen it a couple times in some different threads and im sick of seeing people actually suggesting trade Willis for a freakin better draft pick to get Luck. its a terrible idea to get rid of a sure All-pro player and our best Defensive player by a large margin for a f**kin rookie.
there are smarter ways to to get a (potentially) good QB on this team w/o getting rid of the best thing we've got goin for us.

I'd have to agree with you, that is some dumb sht. Yesterday I was verbally assaulted for saying this place was an interesting study in human psychology and I stand by that. The drama you've been seeing over the last few days is what happens when people get desperate and feel there is no hope. I see no difference from what's going on in here than from people jumping from the windows of a burning building, no difference at all.

Now why would you give up a known quality, a 4-straight years to the pro bowl known quality, for something that might not pan out. Don't get me wrong, i want Luck to be a Niner, but there are other fools on this team that we can be dealt, for God sake. Give up two, three players if need be, but not the best fckin LB in the league.

I didnt know the off season had started and the trade scenarios had began. Ok, how about V.D and our #1 for Luck or the best QB after the combine.

That is more feasible. TEs can be replaced. The best deffensive player in the NFL cant.

The best defensive player right now is Troy Polamalu. He can singlehandedly turn the game around with a pick-6, sack, or forced fumble. Patrick Willis can tackle everybody on the field, but is just not as dynamic. I would not be willing to trade VD. He is just too dynamic and could score a TD anytime. Other teams probably rack their brains trying to gameplan against VD.

Our #1 priority should be to rebuild our offense and we can't trade away the few offensive playmakers we have.

Willis does singlehandedly turn games around. he does get pick 6's.he has six sacks on the season with a team that rarely sends him on the blitz. he forces fumbles. do you even watch the guy.

For real though.

On his VD argument...look I agree, but I would totally TOTALLY have a Franchise QB than a TE that is fast. Sorry....I would lean in favor of trading VD for and our #1 for the #1 overall. TE's can be found a dime a dozen.

that is true quality TE's are alot easier to find then quality QB's. and usually i'd agree with that case to trade your talented TE to move up and get a QB. but not if its VD. he would be our new QBs' best target and he'd put up better stats then he did before with the crap ones he used to deal with. in this instance it just doesnt seem right to make the deal.
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,238
Originally posted by ObePwnD:
Originally posted by sfout:
Once again stop focusing on shelling our core players and think realistically about getting rid of guys like Clements or Morgan, Who truly are replaceable. We have so many needs that we need to focus on and cant afford to get rid of pillars of our teams.

RB: Westbrook is gone

FB: Norris is ancient

WR: Crab is a #2 at best we need a #1

C: We need to think about a new Center with Heitmann being 31 and coming off neck surgery

D:
All of our pass rushers are streaky,
Demtric Evans and Ray Mac are both FA
Aubrayo is a FA
Manny is a FA
Takeo is a FA
Goldson is a FA


Are there really people out there that think with all these players who we need to please with extensions or find replacements for that we are in a position to say by to people like Gore, Davis, Willis? Get it through your heads that if we are going to trade someone it will be someone like Brooks, Morgan, Clements, Snyder, and Carr.

We need a franchise QB not a stop gap. We need a deep threat WR, a every down pass rusher and a cover CB. We can't afford to weaken our other positions.

sfout, you're gonna be alright on the zone man, welcome.

Thanks man, I can say some pretty wack things but I can be pretty insightful sometimes as well. Even after 5+ years of watching the 9ers as a die hard fan I still have a lot of learning to do.

Edit: There is no guarantee that Luck will be the best player in the NFL. VD is already top 3 TE in the NFL, Willis top LB and you people are talking about trading them away for a relative unknown? That is way to crazy.
I think we are all letting the Bill Walsh influence on Luck go to our heads. I am pretty glad I wasn't on these forums a year ago when Locker was the consensus #1 pick and the "next best nfl qb" and didn't have to see all the crazy trade theories leading up to the offseason.
Luck is a great prospect but we really need to settle down and realize that he is just another hyped up qb and has just as big of a chance to fail as the next guy.

[ Edited by sfout on Dec 30, 2010 at 23:47:55 ]
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by ObePwnD:
Originally posted by sfout:
Once again stop focusing on shelling our core players and think realistically about getting rid of guys like Clements or Morgan, Who truly are replaceable. We have so many needs that we need to focus on and cant afford to get rid of pillars of our teams.

RB: Westbrook is gone

FB: Norris is ancient

WR: Crab is a #2 at best we need a #1

C: We need to think about a new Center with Heitmann being 31 and coming off neck surgery

D:
All of our pass rushers are streaky,
Demtric Evans and Ray Mac are both FA
Aubrayo is a FA
Manny is a FA
Takeo is a FA
Goldson is a FA


Are there really people out there that think with all these players who we need to please with extensions or find replacements for that we are in a position to say by to people like Gore, Davis, Willis? Get it through your heads that if we are going to trade someone it will be someone like Brooks, Morgan, Clements, Snyder, and Carr.

We need a franchise QB not a stop gap. We need a deep threat WR, a every down pass rusher and a cover CB. We can't afford to weaken our other positions.

sfout, you're gonna be alright on the zone man, welcome.

Thanks man, I can say some pretty wack things but I can be pretty insightful sometimes as well. Even after 5+ years of watching the 9ers as a die hard fan I still have a lot of learning to do.

I think Crabtree will continue to get better, with improved coaching/QB play he can be a #1 in my opinion. I agree with the rest of what you say and I agree you are gonna be alright here, just don't let the trolls get to you.
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,238
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by ObePwnD:
Originally posted by sfout:
Once again stop focusing on shelling our core players and think realistically about getting rid of guys like Clements or Morgan, Who truly are replaceable. We have so many needs that we need to focus on and cant afford to get rid of pillars of our teams.

RB: Westbrook is gone

FB: Norris is ancient

WR: Crab is a #2 at best we need a #1

C: We need to think about a new Center with Heitmann being 31 and coming off neck surgery

D:
All of our pass rushers are streaky,
Demtric Evans and Ray Mac are both FA
Aubrayo is a FA
Manny is a FA
Takeo is a FA
Goldson is a FA


Are there really people out there that think with all these players who we need to please with extensions or find replacements for that we are in a position to say by to people like Gore, Davis, Willis? Get it through your heads that if we are going to trade someone it will be someone like Brooks, Morgan, Clements, Snyder, and Carr.

We need a franchise QB not a stop gap. We need a deep threat WR, a every down pass rusher and a cover CB. We can't afford to weaken our other positions.

sfout, you're gonna be alright on the zone man, welcome.

Thanks man, I can say some pretty wack things but I can be pretty insightful sometimes as well. Even after 5+ years of watching the 9ers as a die hard fan I still have a lot of learning to do.

I think Crabtree will continue to get better, with improved coaching/QB play he can be a #1 in my opinion. I agree with the rest of what you say and I agree you are gonna be alright here, just don't let the trolls get to you.

Thanks mang. Yea Crabtree could be #1 if we use him correctly, I watched his final season as texas tech and pretty much salivated at the thought of the 9ers drafting him and by the grace of God they did. He could be #1 with a legit deep threat as #2. I am also a big fan of the idea of drafting a big guy like Luck, Mallet or Gabbert and doing a 2 TE 1 WR set with VD, crabs and delanie or a fa pick up like Mercedes Lewis.
Originally posted by StOnEy333:

im probably the blue one
I don't think posters ( like me) saying trade Willis mean trade Willis-----as much as trying to make the point---if you ( the Niners GM and scouts and coaches) see a QB they think can be a great one---you do whatever it takes---it could be trading other draft picks or other players----

the QB is like the queen in a chess game---if you have a good one--you will eventually win--and win big.
Originally posted by sfout:
Once again stop focusing on shelling our core players and think realistically about getting rid of guys like Clements or Morgan, Who truly are replaceable. We have so many needs that we need to focus on and cant afford to get rid of pillars of our teams.

RB: Westbrook is gone

FB: Norris is ancient

WR: Crab is a #2 at best we need a #1

C: We need to think about a new Center with Heitmann being 31 and coming off neck surgery

D:
All of our pass rushers are streaky,
Demtric Evans and Ray Mac are both FA
Aubrayo is a FA
Manny is a FA
Takeo is a FA
Goldson is a FA


Are there really people out there that think with all these players who we need to please with extensions or find replacements for that we are in a position to say by to people like Gore, Davis, Willis? Get it through your heads that if we are going to trade someone it will be someone like Brooks, Morgan, Clements, Snyder, and Carr.

We need a franchise QB not a stop gap. We need a deep threat WR, a every down pass rusher and a cover CB. We can't afford to weaken our other positions.

Welcome aboard sfout ------

Your dead on with our top three needs with more emphasis on every down pass rusher and CB , outside of getting a top notch QB finally.

I can't believe their are some people who have such moronic ideas like trading Willis.
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,238
Originally posted by 49ERwhiner:
Originally posted by sfout:
Once again stop focusing on shelling our core players and think realistically about getting rid of guys like Clements or Morgan, Who truly are replaceable. We have so many needs that we need to focus on and cant afford to get rid of pillars of our teams.

RB: Westbrook is gone

FB: Norris is ancient

WR: Crab is a #2 at best we need a #1

C: We need to think about a new Center with Heitmann being 31 and coming off neck surgery

D:
All of our pass rushers are streaky,
Demtric Evans and Ray Mac are both FA
Aubrayo is a FA
Manny is a FA
Takeo is a FA
Goldson is a FA


Are there really people out there that think with all these players who we need to please with extensions or find replacements for that we are in a position to say by to people like Gore, Davis, Willis? Get it through your heads that if we are going to trade someone it will be someone like Brooks, Morgan, Clements, Snyder, and Carr.

We need a franchise QB not a stop gap. We need a deep threat WR, a every down pass rusher and a cover CB. We can't afford to weaken our other positions.

Welcome aboard sfout ------

Your dead on with our top three needs with more emphasis on every down pass rusher and CB , outside of getting a top notch QB finally.

I can't believe their are some people who have such moronic ideas like trading Willis.

Thank you as well, I really hope a guy like Adrian Clayborn falls to our #2 pick -- great pass rusher but I think he might too high profile for a #2 pick.

Also to the guy saying "people posting trade willis don't actually mean trade willis" that makes no sense whatsoever -- Stop being mindless fools yelling about change and be constructive. Put it out there the names of the players we actually should trade or let walk so we can improve. Trading VD, Willis, and Crabtree would be completely ludicrous and self-destructive. We might as well throw Iupati into that list because of his impact on our OL this year. After a suggestion like that doesn't seem wrong to propose the idea of trading Willis?

Edit: Also MLB not being a game changing/franchise changing position??? That is a statement made by a person who doesn't watch a lot of football.

Perfect example look at the last 3 years of the Chicago Bears D

2010: Brian Urlacher is 11th in the league in tackles; briggs isn't on the board
3 CBs in the top 28 in INTs
2 players on the big board for sacks
10th in total defense
2009: Urlacher was out all season and Lance Briggs his fellow starter was 15th in the league in tackles and Urlacher's replacement was not on the board
Only 1 CB on the top board for INTs
2 players on the big board for sacks
17th in total defense
2008: Lance Briggs was 24th in the league in tackles; Urlacher was not on the board
2 players on the big board for INTs -- one of them is Briggs.
2 players on the big board for Sacks.
21ist in total defense
Clearly with Urlacher and Briggs healthy the Bears defense is massively better then without them. This is a cursory look at is definitely a multiple factor situation but it definitely proves that ILB is a team changing position. Getting rid of Willis would be a colossal failure by our organization.

[ Edited by sfout on Dec 31, 2010 at 09:54:21 ]
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by 49ERwhiner:
Originally posted by sfout:
Once again stop focusing on shelling our core players and think realistically about getting rid of guys like Clements or Morgan, Who truly are replaceable. We have so many needs that we need to focus on and cant afford to get rid of pillars of our teams.

RB: Westbrook is gone

FB: Norris is ancient

WR: Crab is a #2 at best we need a #1

C: We need to think about a new Center with Heitmann being 31 and coming off neck surgery

D:
All of our pass rushers are streaky,
Demtric Evans and Ray Mac are both FA
Aubrayo is a FA
Manny is a FA
Takeo is a FA
Goldson is a FA


Are there really people out there that think with all these players who we need to please with extensions or find replacements for that we are in a position to say by to people like Gore, Davis, Willis? Get it through your heads that if we are going to trade someone it will be someone like Brooks, Morgan, Clements, Snyder, and Carr.

We need a franchise QB not a stop gap. We need a deep threat WR, a every down pass rusher and a cover CB. We can't afford to weaken our other positions.

Welcome aboard sfout ------

Your dead on with our top three needs with more emphasis on every down pass rusher and CB , outside of getting a top notch QB finally.

I can't believe their are some people who have such moronic ideas like trading Willis.

Thank you as well, I really hope a guy like Adrian Clayborn falls to our #2 pick -- great pass rusher but I think he might too high profile for a #2 pick.

Also to the guy saying "people posting trade willis don't actually mean trade willis" that makes no sense whatsoever -- Stop being mindless fools yelling about change and be constructive. Put it out there the names of the players we actually should trade or let walk so we can improve. Trading VD, Willis, and Crabtree would be completely ludicrous and self-destructive. We might as well throw Iupati into that list because of his impact on our OL this year. After a suggestion like that doesn't seem wrong to propose the idea of trading Willis?

Edit: Also MLB not being a game changing/franchise changing position??? That is a statement made by a person who doesn't watch a lot of football.

Perfect example look at the last 3 years of the Chicago Bears D

2010: Brian Urlacher is 11th in the league in tackles; briggs isn't on the board
3 CBs in the top 28 in INTs
2 players on the big board for sacks
10th in total defense
2009: Urlacher was out all season and Lance Briggs his fellow starter was 15th in the league in tackles and Urlacher's replacement was not on the board
Only 1 CB on the top board for INTs
2 players on the big board for sacks
17th in total defense
2008: Lance Briggs was 24th in the league in tackles; Urlacher was not on the board
2 players on the big board for INTs -- one of them is Briggs.
2 players on the big board for Sacks.
21ist in total defense
Clearly with Urlacher and Briggs healthy the Bears defense is massively better then without them. This is a cursory look at is definitely a multiple factor situation but it definitely proves that ILB is a team changing position. Getting rid of Willis would be a colossal failure by our organization.

sfout im loving your posts man. unlike alot of posters on here you seem logical and use statistics to back up your arguments. keep it up
i completely agree that if the team got rid of Willis, it'd be like getting rid of VD Gore Crabs(again, if he turns out) or our best O-lineman Iupati. it'd be just plain assinine
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by 49ERwhiner:
Originally posted by sfout:
Once again stop focusing on shelling our core players and think realistically about getting rid of guys like Clements or Morgan, Who truly are replaceable. We have so many needs that we need to focus on and cant afford to get rid of pillars of our teams.

RB: Westbrook is gone

FB: Norris is ancient

WR: Crab is a #2 at best we need a #1

C: We need to think about a new Center with Heitmann being 31 and coming off neck surgery

D:
All of our pass rushers are streaky,
Demtric Evans and Ray Mac are both FA
Aubrayo is a FA
Manny is a FA
Takeo is a FA
Goldson is a FA


Are there really people out there that think with all these players who we need to please with extensions or find replacements for that we are in a position to say by to people like Gore, Davis, Willis? Get it through your heads that if we are going to trade someone it will be someone like Brooks, Morgan, Clements, Snyder, and Carr.

We need a franchise QB not a stop gap. We need a deep threat WR, a every down pass rusher and a cover CB. We can't afford to weaken our other positions.

Welcome aboard sfout ------

Your dead on with our top three needs with more emphasis on every down pass rusher and CB , outside of getting a top notch QB finally.

I can't believe their are some people who have such moronic ideas like trading Willis.

Thank you as well, I really hope a guy like Adrian Clayborn falls to our #2 pick -- great pass rusher but I think he might too high profile for a #2 pick.

Also to the guy saying "people posting trade willis don't actually mean trade willis" that makes no sense whatsoever -- Stop being mindless fools yelling about change and be constructive. Put it out there the names of the players we actually should trade or let walk so we can improve. Trading VD, Willis, and Crabtree would be completely ludicrous and self-destructive. We might as well throw Iupati into that list because of his impact on our OL this year. After a suggestion like that doesn't seem wrong to propose the idea of trading Willis?

Edit: Also MLB not being a game changing/franchise changing position??? That is a statement made by a person who doesn't watch a lot of football.

Perfect example look at the last 3 years of the Chicago Bears D

2010: Brian Urlacher is 11th in the league in tackles; briggs isn't on the board
3 CBs in the top 28 in INTs
2 players on the big board for sacks
10th in total defense
2009: Urlacher was out all season and Lance Briggs his fellow starter was 15th in the league in tackles and Urlacher's replacement was not on the board
Only 1 CB on the top board for INTs
2 players on the big board for sacks
17th in total defense
2008: Lance Briggs was 24th in the league in tackles; Urlacher was not on the board
2 players on the big board for INTs -- one of them is Briggs.
2 players on the big board for Sacks.
21ist in total defense
Clearly with Urlacher and Briggs healthy the Bears defense is massively better then without them. This is a cursory look at is definitely a multiple factor situation but it definitely proves that ILB is a team changing position. Getting rid of Willis would be a colossal failure by our organization.


I will make the bold prediction: at the end of his career Andrew Luck will have won more Super Bowls than any Niner on the current roster---unless he is on our team.

We will find out in 20 years!
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,238
Originally posted by WillisToHOF:
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by 49ERwhiner:
Originally posted by sfout:
Once again stop focusing on shelling our core players and think realistically about getting rid of guys like Clements or Morgan, Who truly are replaceable. We have so many needs that we need to focus on and cant afford to get rid of pillars of our teams.

RB: Westbrook is gone

FB: Norris is ancient

WR: Crab is a #2 at best we need a #1

C: We need to think about a new Center with Heitmann being 31 and coming off neck surgery

D:
All of our pass rushers are streaky,
Demtric Evans and Ray Mac are both FA
Aubrayo is a FA
Manny is a FA
Takeo is a FA
Goldson is a FA


Are there really people out there that think with all these players who we need to please with extensions or find replacements for that we are in a position to say by to people like Gore, Davis, Willis? Get it through your heads that if we are going to trade someone it will be someone like Brooks, Morgan, Clements, Snyder, and Carr.

We need a franchise QB not a stop gap. We need a deep threat WR, a every down pass rusher and a cover CB. We can't afford to weaken our other positions.

Welcome aboard sfout ------

Your dead on with our top three needs with more emphasis on every down pass rusher and CB , outside of getting a top notch QB finally.

I can't believe their are some people who have such moronic ideas like trading Willis.

Thank you as well, I really hope a guy like Adrian Clayborn falls to our #2 pick -- great pass rusher but I think he might too high profile for a #2 pick.

Also to the guy saying "people posting trade willis don't actually mean trade willis" that makes no sense whatsoever -- Stop being mindless fools yelling about change and be constructive. Put it out there the names of the players we actually should trade or let walk so we can improve. Trading VD, Willis, and Crabtree would be completely ludicrous and self-destructive. We might as well throw Iupati into that list because of his impact on our OL this year. After a suggestion like that doesn't seem wrong to propose the idea of trading Willis?

Edit: Also MLB not being a game changing/franchise changing position??? That is a statement made by a person who doesn't watch a lot of football.

Perfect example look at the last 3 years of the Chicago Bears D

2010: Brian Urlacher is 11th in the league in tackles; briggs isn't on the board
3 CBs in the top 28 in INTs
2 players on the big board for sacks
10th in total defense
2009: Urlacher was out all season and Lance Briggs his fellow starter was 15th in the league in tackles and Urlacher's replacement was not on the board
Only 1 CB on the top board for INTs
2 players on the big board for sacks
17th in total defense
2008: Lance Briggs was 24th in the league in tackles; Urlacher was not on the board
2 players on the big board for INTs -- one of them is Briggs.
2 players on the big board for Sacks.
21ist in total defense
Clearly with Urlacher and Briggs healthy the Bears defense is massively better then without them. This is a cursory look at is definitely a multiple factor situation but it definitely proves that ILB is a team changing position. Getting rid of Willis would be a colossal failure by our organization.

sfout im loving your posts man. unlike alot of posters on here you seem logical and use statistics to back up your arguments. keep it up
i completely agree that if the team got rid of Willis, it'd be like getting rid of VD Gore Crabs(again, if he turns out) or our best O-lineman Iupati. it'd be just plain assinine

Thank you again. Look if we end up wit the #2 pick we can simply contact the panthers and ask them what they will be doing with their pick and if we could sweeten the deal by "swapping the picks and sending a player their way" even if they don't really have a plan to draft luck. Mallet and Gabbert could just as easily be taken here and we will have to wait until the combine to see the top performer.

[ Edited by sfout on Dec 31, 2010 at 18:54:34 ]
This is actually a thread!