Hear me out on this: But why Jim Harbaugh?

Originally posted by PatrickJira411:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Harbaugh is the gold ticket, he really is. He has so many f**king connections to NFL coordinators/assistants for being just a mere college coach (his family name is generations deep in coaching linage).

There probably isn't any other college coach more ready for the NFL than Jim Harbaugh, we just gotta get him!!!

Agreed. I'm gonna either be really happy when we hire him, or just straight bummed when we don't.

Originally posted by DesiDez:
Here's what I like about Harbaugh

1) He turned around TWO football programs who have no college football tradition (Univ of San Diego and Stanford). Its not like he's coming from USC, Bama, Oklahoma, etc (traditional powerhouses)

2) He developed TWO great QBs at each program. They both played great at each school. Everyone is aware of Luck, but look at what Harbaugh did with Josh Johnson (who's backing up Freeman at TB). 43 TDs and 1 INT in his Senior season. That is no fluke if Harbaugh can do it TWICE.

3) He runs the WCO, a pro-style offense...not Urban Meyer's spread option, or Texas Tech's/Mizzou's spread, or Gus Malzahns offense at Auburn, or Nevada's Pistol offense. He ran a legitimate NFL offense in college and succeeded.

4) Former NFL QB. Not only is he football intelligent but he can relate to the players at the NFL level.

5) He's young and not a retread.

A lot of people still clamor for Mariucci and he didn't do anything at Cal. Jimmy Johnson, Bill Walsh, Tom Coughlin made the leap from College to the Pros and they won. So its not like there's no precedent.

I'm sure Jed has more reasons to hire Harbaugh, but those are purely business reasons.

I don't live on the WC anymore so I'm not biased

All the things i like about coach Harbaugh. Game planning against top opponents is his forte! polar opposite of what we have right now. We will finally go back to WCO and have a creative offense. a HC that will finally call his own plays so there's not offensive "reset" every year for our next big QB(by miracle i hope its A.Luck)

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by fropwns:
I am a football fan, but I do not live in Pac-10 country (SEC West baby, you heard of it? ). So, I have an outsider's appreciation for what Jim Harbaugh has done at Stanford--academic institution that is playing in a premier bowl game? Ok, I am impressed.

But is it enough for him to coach the Niners?

And I understand that he met and spoke with Bill Walsh, which around these parts is like talking to Jesus, the Burning Bush, the Prophet, the Buddha, Silent Bob, The "Hoff", "Hef", Yoda, and Chuck Norris.

But is it enough for him to coach the Niners?

And yeah, I remember him as Captain Comeback. I actually liked him when he played for the Colts (drafted by the Bears in 87), I never thought he was great, but good enough to win. A guy that was not hard to like.

It seems like to me that we are trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice. Didn't we already try that with Mike Nolan? His father was a 49er head coach, and some, myself included, bought into his son's love for the helmet. That worked out well for us didn't it? Granted, Harbaugh has head coaching experience, but Nolan had NFL experience. I'll let some of you debate that point away.

Again--and it really is sad that I have to clarify myself on this, but around these parts, you speak a bad word about a fan favorite and they tie you up by your (censored) and make you listen to recordings of Samuari Mike's greatest hits collection--I have no dislike for the guy.

But, are we not doing the same thing by placing all of our collective hopes into the image of Jim Harbaugh? But, instead of a family connection, it is a Bill Walsh one? Hell, is it a niner one:

1. In 1995, he was comeback player of the year with Garrison Hearst

2. His big ten passing efficiency record was broken by Elvis Grbac

The following I lifted from wikipedia (as with the above tidbits); no, I don't trust wiki, but for this type of stuff, and on short notice, this is the best I have:


San Diego Toreros:
2004 San Diego 7–4 4–1 2nd
2005 San Diego 11–1 4–0 1st
2006 San Diego 11–1 7–0 1st
San Diego: 29–6

Stanford Cardinal (Pacific-10 Conference) (2007–present)
2007 Stanford 4–8 3–6 T–7th
2008 Stanford 5–7 4–5 T–6th
2009 Stanford 8–5 6–3 T–2nd L Sun
2010 Stanford 11–1 8–1 2nd Orange †

Stanford: 28–21 21–15

Total: 57–27

Is this enough of a resume to lay the hopes of the next five years or longer on?

Again, I have no agenda here, I like the guy, hope to hell if we get him that he wins, and this will probably get merged, but I am curious about why Harbaugh has captured the hearts and minds of many 49ers fans.

I can see the Gruden and Holmgren stuff--granted, you can make the Walsh connection to them, but both of them have won in the NFL. But, are we pinning for Harbaugh because we think he is the next Bill Walsh, and if so, isn't that a rather dumb thing to do?



EDIT: Here is not HEAR

EDIT 2: I can't f*cking spell today: lightning

Fro,

Even you didn't just wake up one day and become the skilled man that you are (looking at the spell check results). I'm sure there were failures and setbacks along your path (just like the rest of us).

What I'm getting at, is that the important thing is what our next coach does; not what he has already done. This is where we need to hope like hell Jed hires in a solid GM that knows what to look for in a winning NFL head coach and can find a future star.

But, as far as Jim... I'm sure none of us will know for sure if he can or cannot be the guy.

Still are setbacks.

And I agree with your sentiments, and those that others share with you, that this whole process is a crap shoot. I guess, my concerns, mirror those of the rest of the community. We're tired man, tired of losing. Yeah, football is a game; and in the grand scheme of things, in my life and yours, it doesn't mean a damn thing. But, it is our escape, just like others find their escape in other aspects of entertainment.

For almost a decade now, we have all been denied our escape. I have made a posting career (too bad I can't make money on it LOL) on trying to make light of our collective football misery.

Every couple of years, we have been offered a cathartic moment where we expunged a coach, staff, and players that we blamed for our misery. How are we rewarded? Our hopes are raised, only to be crushed, and done so repeatedly. Again, maybe our undying love for this team is nothing more than an escape from facing our own individual challenges, struggles, and disappointments in life.

In this, we are all truly flawed. For we expend a great deal of energy on something that will not determine the course of our lives.

But enough psycho-babble. I am Fropwns. I am supposed to speak for the community. And so I shall, I believe I speak for all of Niner-kind when I say, enough is enough. To paraphrase Mike Singletary, "We want winners." Anything else, anything that even smells like regression will be hunted out and exterminated by the masses in posts, phone calls, emails, bags on our heads, and anything and everything that screams out, "NO."

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Harbaugh is the gold ticket, he really is. He has so many f**king connections to NFL coordinators/assistants for being just a mere college coach (his family name is generations deep in coaching linage).

There probably isn't any other college coach more ready for the NFL than Jim Harbaugh, we just gotta get him!!!

i'd have him sign the contract before he even got off the field at the end of the orange bowl

Lol, jed shows up in disguise and is like "coach harbaugh, im at huge fan! Can I have your autograph? " next thing you know, harbaugh just signed a 5 year contract.

as someone who was at stanford when they were terrible, and watched the jim harbaugh turn around up close, I wouldn't mind him, but i'd rather have someone actually from the walsh tree, with actual NFL experience....people who want harbaugh have been exagerrating his resume to suggest he's a walsh guy and an experienced NFL guy, and neither is true.

Originally posted by kray28:
Never confuse success in college with success at the Pro level.

Not saying good college coaches can't do well in the Pros, but good college coach does not imply a good NFL coach. The converse however does seem to hold true. (Good NFL coaches tend to make good college coaches.)

Harbaugh has an impressive college resume, but zero experience as an NFL HC. He has some experience as an assistant.

I'd say that that rules him out, or at least makes him far from the slam dunk that that certain Bay Area homers are making him out to be. The responsibilities of an NFL head coach are very different than a college head coach. In college, recruiting is the big differentiator, and then you have Xs and Os. In the NFL, you largely have very little control over the talent you have, so X's and O's are often the differentiator.

I think you oversimplify the college vs pros thing. I think you're right that recruiting and x's and o's are the two HUGE necessary talents at the college level. But those are equally important at the pro level. The difference is that the draft is the great equalizer. In college the best salesmen working for the biggest name programs have all the advantages when it comes to recruiting the top talent. At the pro level the top talent is spread out through the draft, and though there are certain clubs that screw it up regularly, you generally are lucky to come out of the draft with more than a couple of the top 30 talents each year. A problem for a lot of college coaches is they don't know how to mine the lower ends of the draft for the nuggets of gold that are always there.

Since Nolan came on board this club has done a pretty good job in the top couple of rounds (with the one glaring exception), but they have gotten hard workers and solid citizens, but rarely difference makers in the late rounds.

Why am I going off on this tangent? Because a coach like Harbaugh (or Chris Peterson at Boise State) doesn't have that recruiting advantage (Stanford because of it's academic standards, Boise because of it's conference), but both coaches seem to be able to find and develop talent. And bottom line: finding and developing talent is what it's all about.

Walsh, Belichek and to a lesser extent Andy Reid were/are considered masters of the draft, because they don't need top picks to find top talent: they see the talents players have and have a vision for how they will fit into their system. Harbaugh seems to have this talent as well. Is it a sure thing? Of course not! But is Gruden?

Gruden, for all the ballyhoo on this board inherited his Super Bowl winner and when the team was dismantled, he was never successful in rebuilding a new team in his image. (Look up his record!)

Holmgren? He was successful with a great organization in Green Bay, that hasn't lost a beat without him. But do you really think what he did in Seattle was special? If that's special, then your sights are set too low! And he's old as the hills. He won't last more than a couple of seasons.

Billick? Though he did well in Baltimore, despite his offensive reputation, he was never able to turn that offense around. And when i saw him on the broadcast two weeks ago going off on the Niners' use of time outs when they had the ball inside the 20 yard line with about 30 seconds o go, I knew he was NOT the tactician we need!

Should I go on?

That's why I don't want a re-tread. With a re-tread you know what you're getting, which is guys who are a little better than average and might get you into the playoffs pretty frequently. But I think those of you who want this sell yourselves and your team short. I WANT SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONSHIPS, and nothing less will do!! And we won't get it without taking a chance on one of these unproven guys with potential!

If we're afraid to lose, we'll never win!

Originally posted by boast:
look at the stats you posted....every program he takes over, he turns around. plus, he does a great job at developing the QB position.

this is EXACTLY what the San Francisco 49ers football organization needs right now.

Agreed, IT"S CALLED HOPE... AND JED NEEDS TO HOPE HE CAN FILL THAT NEW STADIUM!!!! Only way you do that is by going after someone that this team needs. f**k the D never could get off the field or stop the big play when they need too... We have a special group of young players with VD, Crabs, Gore... And a young oline.... What we need is to fix this offense and who better from the college ranks! IF we go after a nfl coach theirs not one guy that i think of who has the possible skill set to do just that... I don't want a guy who doesn't know x's and o's. I DONT want a guy who's defensive minded. And i don't want a has been x nfl coach, that doesn't have the drive anymore.... WHAT I WANT IS A YOUNG COLLEGE COACH THATS DONE EVERYTHING AT THAT LEVEL AND HAS THE DRIVE TO COME INTO THE NFL AND GETTER DONE!!!!

His little brother isn't too bad of a Head Coach either. You gotta think he got some of his skills from Big Brother Jim

Go to 1:30-2:30 of the video, this is why Singletary sucked as a HC, could never grasp these types of fundamentals.

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Go to 1:30-2:30 of the video, this is why Singletary sucked as a HC, could never grasp these types of fundamentals.

That's good to hear! IMO, if it really comes down to this guy... I think the OC/DC they hire will be absolutely crucial to his success.

For example, when working for the Raiders, we hired former Pro Bowl quarterback Jim Harbaugh to be a film breakdown coach and to work with our quarterbacks. Harbaugh, the son of a coach, understood paying his dues, hard work and what it would take to be a great leader and coach. Harbaugh was so dedicated to the cause that one night, after working for several days without sleep, his head crashed into the computer keypad with his nose landing on the M key. Waking up a few hours later, Harbaugh found 8,000 pages of Ms and the energy to keep learning. Now, after paying his dues, Harbaugh has become a successful coach at Stanford and is NFL ready if he chooses to return to the league.

That's why Jim Harbaugh

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d408b4/article/singletary-failed-to-replicate-success-as-a-player-on-sidelines

Originally posted by DesiDez:
Here's what I like about Harbaugh

1) He turned around TWO football programs who have no college football tradition (Univ of San Diego and Stanford). Its not like he's coming from USC, Bama, Oklahoma, etc (traditional powerhouses)

2) He developed TWO great QBs at each program. They both played great at each school. Everyone is aware of Luck, but look at what Harbaugh did with Josh Johnson (who's backing up Freeman at TB). 43 TDs and 1 INT in his Senior season. That is no fluke if Harbaugh can do it TWICE.

3) He runs the WCO, a pro-style offense...not Urban Meyer's spread option, or Texas Tech's/Mizzou's spread, or Gus Malzahns offense at Auburn, or Nevada's Pistol offense. He ran a legitimate NFL offense in college and succeeded.

4) Former NFL QB. Not only is he football intelligent but he can relate to the players at the NFL level.

5) He's young and not a retread.

A lot of people still clamor for Mariucci and he didn't do anything at Cal. Jimmy Johnson, Bill Walsh, Tom Coughlin made the leap from College to the Pros and they won. So its not like there's no precedent.

I'm sure Jed has more reasons to hire Harbaugh, but those are purely business reasons.

I don't live on the WC anymore so I'm not biased

Good or bad there seems to be precedent for everything.

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Go to 1:30-2:30 of the video, this is why Singletary sucked as a HC, could never grasp these types of fundamentals.

That's good to hear! IMO, if it really comes down to this guy... I think the OC/DC they hire will be absolutely crucial to his success.

That little tidbit seems to explain one of our major flaws this year. It seemed like as soon as a few things went against us the game was over.

Originally posted by nvninerfan1:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by boast:
look at the stats you posted....every program he takes over, he turns around. plus, he does a great job at developing the QB position.

this is EXACTLY what the San Francisco 49ers football organization needs right now.

I'm NOT trying to say you're wrong, I ask out of ignorance, but who, aside from Luck, are you referring to?

(and if that's the criteria why not hire Jeff Tedford?)

Josh Johnson at San Diego St.

So a guy that hasn't played a down yet in the NFL, and a backup that's completed 77 passes in his three seasons in the NFL? I don't know if that's a track record for doing a great job at developing QB's. That's not to say he can't or won't, I just think that part of his resume is way overblown (at this point).

The fact that Johnson even made it to an NFL roster from San Diego State as a QB has to say something. I see a whole lot of guys who started in the Big 10, Big 12 and even the SEC who don't make rosters in the NFL.

He's not the only player to make it to the NFL from San Diego State, and not nearly the only one to make it from a school of that size or with similar programs. That doesn't really prove anything to me about Harbaugh's ability to develop QBs in either direction.

I don't know if this has been mentioned..but...

if/when Alex f**ks us over one last time by beating the Cardinals...and lets just say other teams win around the league which would help the Cards get Andrew Luck.

well one extra added blessing in having Harbaugh on our side is having an early way of slowing down Luck before he blossoms.....maybe even ruining him.

one thing i'll say is Harbaugh might be the first coach in a long time where most agreed to want him around here.

Dennis Erickson...DID NOT WANT HIM
Mike Nolan..........DID NOT WANT HIM
Mike Sing............Wanted him cuz I thought he'd keep Martz around...back then I would've rather have Martz as headcoach than Sing

Harbaugh?...I wouldn't mind having him.

I mean who else is out there....I personally don't want Chucky....I wouldn't mind John Fox...although I don't like his run first play defense approach..but I think he is one hell of a coach, but I think most here wouldn't want the guy......would like Bill Cowha, but I don't know how long he would want to commit before retiring again.