Honestly, I feel like less of a 49er fan.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by DynastyPart2:
NinerGM,

How do you know KT doesn't have season tickets?

Why does that matter? He is a fan as evidence of his time spent on this forum. The casual fan does not bother to look for a venue to talk about their team. The casual fan doesn't really know the schedule or who ALL the players on the roster are. To me, that's the casual fan.

I have been a season ticket holder since 2003. I love my 49ers. I am not happy with the decisions that have been made. But you want to know what really disappoints me with my team today? The empty promises. Don't talk to me about how you are going to win the division. Don't tell me we are going to make the playoffs. SHOW ME!

Stop talking and start doing.

I feel cheated because of the lies.

I feel KT has every right to feel cheated. It doesn't mean he isn't worthy of being a fan, it just means he is not happy with the current 49ers regime.

Go 49ers!

I don't know if he is a season ticket holder which is why I asked the question but this isn't the argument being made....

The correlation between being a fan and being "cheated" simply because one spends time on this forum just doesn't wash with me. You, IMHO, have much more of a claim to "being cheated" then someone who (assumed only) posts at a forum.

Simply by owning an NFL how is one obligated to everyone who calls themselves a fan without any financial investment? I am willing to bet you the world that every owner in the NFL values its fans in a particular order - starting with those who actually spend money and go to games. Those who post on a technically unofficial forum as the primary evidence of their fanaticism I would say isn't as important to the 49ers as say someone who would attend the game. Doesn't the NFL as an organization encourage this hierarchy? (blackout rules).

Again, it's being "cheated" that I have an issue with as stated. If you spend your $, then you have a right to feel "cheated". If one feels cheated simply because the ownership promised that things would get better and they haven't and you've not invested, I don't understand how just because I own a franchise I somehow I owe everyone an explanation of decisions I have or have not made - particularly those who haven't invested $ in the team.

Again, just my opinion.

I'm not coming at you and only you here, so please don't take any of what I say the wrong way. I do, however, have a difference of opinion and am 2x offended on a couple of your points here.

I have invested money in 1 49ers game ever, it was this season, in Kansas City. I've invested in probably 5 jerseys in my entire life. I'm 26. I've watched the 49ers since I can remember... and that's not just a statement, I can honest to god find you an entire army of people who can attest to this. I've dealt with slander, heartache, ups, downs, legends and busts.

I've "invested" time.

"Time is Money"

That said... it doesn't take monetary value in the team to take a stance that you feel "cheated" about how the ownership/gm/coach/players have performed. It takes the heart. My heart is with the 49ers, even through all of this bullsh!t that has transpired.

That being said, it's love. I love the 49ers. I love them like I love many other things in my life. I can't NOT think about or love them.

In a relationship, if one person is more in love than the other... the person not as in love, makes decisions. Sometimes those decisions lead them down paths that are not FAITHFUL to their other half. That being said... the Yorks have, on more than one occasion, made wrong decisions... That could affect our beloved franchise a stadium, or a city, players... etc... Therefore, I feel cheated. With no real monetary value invested in the team, I, can honestly say, I feel cheated. I dont have to have the pocketbook or the post count to confirm that feeling. Granted, if I lived closer, I would go to more games and therefore have more of a leg to stand on, in your terms. With distance though, comes the inability to spend a wealth of money on the team.

I'll also cite the definitions of the word "cheat"

deprive somebody of something by deceit; "The con-man beat me out of $50"; "This salesman ripped us off!"; "we were cheated by their clever-sounding scheme"; "They chiseled me out of my money"
chess: weedy annual native to Europe but widely distributed as a weed especially in wheat
defeat someone through trickery or deceit
deceiver: someone who leads you to believe something that is not true
engage in deceitful behavior; practice trickery or fraud; "Who's chiseling on the side?"
swindle: the act of swindling by some fraudulent scheme; "that book is a fraud"
cheat on: be sexually unfaithful to one's partner in marriage; "She cheats on her husband"; "Might her husband be wandering?"
a deception for profit to yourself

While I respect the opinion of long-time season ticket holders, fans and members of the WZ... I don't agree with this particular philosophy. You don't love the 9ers more than I do, just because you can afford the luxury of going to the games... If anything, it being tangible to you, makes it easier... you don't have to go out of your way to find games online... hunt down other fans in the area to feel that comradery. You get to go to an organized event, see them, and have your peeps all around you.

I went in to KC, the loudest mofo in the NFL, and repped our boys after 2 terrible losses with a QB I didn't believe in. Not making a QB change, or any changes at the half, I felt cheated.

I could go on forever, but I digress.... You're either a fan or you're not. If the ownership pisses you off, like stated before, plenty of other options. No one will know the difference if you jump ship or not.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Sucks for you man, I am and always will be a fan, unless someone comes up with something better than football. Of course I have the 80's and 90's to fall back on. We will be good again man, you just have to keep he faith.

.....

When how and why?

YORKIES absolutely love guys like you with the blind faith and blind devotion.

I am willing to give Jed the benefit of the doubt, and give him a chance, one more time... He's only had the ability to be the final say so in the organization for the past few years..

When Sing was hired as the full time head coach, they did finish strong that year. Gruden wasn't leaving the booth anytime soon, nobody knew anything about Harbaugh at Stanford at the time, Holmgren said he was taking that year off and Shannahan likewise. And Bill Cohwer and Tony Dungy, please, these guys are not West Coast guys, they are not coming out to this side of the Country to coach, probably ever... So really what choice did Jed have but to give Sing a shot... Everyone was applauding the move at the time too.. The only complaint I had with that hire in 2008, was giving Sing a 4 year contract.. Should have been a 2 in my opinion....

Jed, grew up in this organization, he knows what the fans are feeling, he was there pumping his fist as a kid just like we where back in the 80's and much of the 90's.. He has a passion for the 49ers just like we do..

NOW, hold up a sec. Based on what I said, that does not mean I think he will get it done just because of the listed above.

Jed is only 27, and every person, including Eddie D, who starts off in control of a professional football franchise screws it up.. Joe Thomas anyone? Which led to head coaching hires like Ken Meyer, Pete McCulley and Fred O'Connor.. That was Eddie D's first 2 years...

Based off his youth and inexperience, and based off the few interviews with Eddie D I've heard about Jed, I think Jed has the potential to turn things around.. I am NOT saying he will, I am merely saying he has the potential to.

Yes, he screwed it up with Sing.. Nolan was his first firing and essentially Sing was his first hire... It's early in his tenure... Let's see what he does this year..

If the rumors are true and he hires Parage as a GM, I'm f**king done!!! lol!!! That will tell you all you need to know, right, without question... But let's wait and see what he does..

Will he get that stadium done? Can he bring in good strong football people in the front office (taking Uncle Eddie's advice)? Will that spawn a great head coach? Will it produce a winning product on the field? Questions like this will begin to be answered as soon as this season is over...

Let's give Jed this off-season and see what he does....

Color me a homer, but I still watch games and WANT them to win. Color me a homer. I am less optimistic about the outcome of games/our season, and by that line I suppose I feel less rabid as a fan, nonetheless - still a fan. So to some extent, I agree with what Kilgore said. Po-tweet.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Sucks for you man, I am and always will be a fan, unless someone comes up with something better than football. Of course I have the 80's and 90's to fall back on. We will be good again man, you just have to keep he faith.

.....

When how and why?

YORKIES absolutely love guys like you with the blind faith and blind devotion.

because Jed is actually consulting his uncle Eddie for advice on how to run this ship out of the murky waters it has been settling in for the past 8 years.

That doesn't mean jack if the Yorks don't open the checkbook.

Technically you have to be a 9er fan to be able feel Less than a 9er Fan.

Also, you wouldn't feel any Less if you were a 9er Fan.

Blaming owership has no credability because not one owner is doing things to lose. Blaming decisions of not getting Coaches, players that everyone wants is not the owners fault. That other Coach/Player has a decision as well and it wasn't the 9ers.

The Coaches we have is the best that were available, Coach Sing was a stretch but the 9ers were playing hard at the time. now not so much.

Firing or making changes with coaches/ players will not help our season this year..so the whining (opinions are different) should stop.

Boycotting and all that other crap is nonsense. Investing in the team is the best thing you can do if you want the Org. to do better. It's a business remember not a charity fund for your selfishness.

Mad respect to all the REAL faithful out there in the Tailgate and in the stands.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by mr2324jgf:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by DynastyPart2:
NinerGM,

How do you know KT doesn't have season tickets?

Why does that matter? He is a fan as evidence of his time spent on this forum. The casual fan does not bother to look for a venue to talk about their team. The casual fan doesn't really know the schedule or who ALL the players on the roster are. To me, that's the casual fan.

I have been a season ticket holder since 2003. I love my 49ers. I am not happy with the decisions that have been made. But you want to know what really disappoints me with my team today? The empty promises. Don't talk to me about how you are going to win the division. Don't tell me we are going to make the playoffs. SHOW ME!

Stop talking and start doing.

I feel cheated because of the lies.

I feel KT has every right to feel cheated. It doesn't mean he isn't worthy of being a fan, it just means he is not happy with the current 49ers regime.

Go 49ers!

I don't know if he is a season ticket holder which is why I asked the question but this isn't the argument being made....

The correlation between being a fan and being "cheated" simply because one spends time on this forum just doesn't wash with me. You, IMHO, have much more of a claim to "being cheated" then someone who (assumed only) posts at a forum.

Simply by owning an NFL how is one obligated to everyone who calls themselves a fan without any financial investment? I am willing to bet you the world that every owner in the NFL values its fans in a particular order - starting with those who actually spend money and go to games. Those who post on a technically unofficial forum as the primary evidence of their fanaticism I would say isn't as important to the 49ers as say someone who would attend the game. Doesn't the NFL as an organization encourage this hierarchy? (blackout rules).

Again, it's being "cheated" that I have an issue with as stated. If you spend your $, then you have a right to feel "cheated". If one feels cheated simply because the ownership promised that things would get better and they haven't and you've not invested, I don't understand how just because I own a franchise I somehow I owe everyone an explanation of decisions I have or have not made - particularly those who haven't invested $ in the team.

Again, just my opinion.

I'm not coming at you and only you here, so please don't take any of what I say the wrong way. I do, however, have a difference of opinion and am 2x offended on a couple of your points here.

I have invested money in 1 49ers game ever, it was this season, in Kansas City. I've invested in probably 5 jerseys in my entire life. I'm 26. I've watched the 49ers since I can remember... and that's not just a statement, I can honest to god find you an entire army of people who can attest to this. I've dealt with slander, heartache, ups, downs, legends and busts.

I've "invested" time.

"Time is Money"

That said... it doesn't take monetary value in the team to take a stance that you feel "cheated" about how the ownership/gm/coach/players have performed. It takes the heart. My heart is with the 49ers, even through all of this bullsh!t that has transpired.

That being said, it's love. I love the 49ers. I love them like I love many other things in my life. I can't NOT think about or love them.

In a relationship, if one person is more in love than the other... the person not as in love, makes decisions. Sometimes those decisions lead them down paths that are not FAITHFUL to their other half. That being said... the Yorks have, on more than one occasion, made wrong decisions... That could affect our beloved franchise a stadium, or a city, players... etc... Therefore, I feel cheated. With no real monetary value invested in the team, I, can honestly say, I feel cheated. I dont have to have the pocketbook or the post count to confirm that feeling. Granted, if I lived closer, I would go to more games and therefore have more of a leg to stand on, in your terms. With distance though, comes the inability to spend a wealth of money on the team.

I'll also cite the definitions of the word "cheat"

deprive somebody of something by deceit; "The con-man beat me out of $50"; "This salesman ripped us off!"; "we were cheated by their clever-sounding scheme"; "They chiseled me out of my money"
chess: weedy annual native to Europe but widely distributed as a weed especially in wheat
defeat someone through trickery or deceit
deceiver: someone who leads you to believe something that is not true
engage in deceitful behavior; practice trickery or fraud; "Who's chiseling on the side?"
swindle: the act of swindling by some fraudulent scheme; "that book is a fraud"
cheat on: be sexually unfaithful to one's partner in marriage; "She cheats on her husband"; "Might her husband be wandering?"
a deception for profit to yourself

While I respect the opinion of long-time season ticket holders, fans and members of the WZ... I don't agree with this particular philosophy. You don't love the 9ers more than I do, just because you can afford the luxury of going to the games... If anything, it being tangible to you, makes it easier... you don't have to go out of your way to find games online... hunt down other fans in the area to feel that comradery. You get to go to an organized event, see them, and have your peeps all around you.

I went in to KC, the loudest mofo in the NFL, and repped our boys after 2 terrible losses with a QB I didn't believe in. Not making a QB change, or any changes at the half, I felt cheated.

I could go on forever, but I digress.... You're either a fan or you're not. If the ownership pisses you off, like stated before, plenty of other options. No one will know the difference if you jump ship or not.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, but I'm not questioning the degree to which you are devoted to the team. I'm not in any way claiming that someone who has season tickets "loves" the 49ers "more" than someone who lives a continent away.

However, I do have issue with the term "feeling cheated."

Your first definition, "deprive somebody of something by deceit" assumes that ownership has entered into an agreement with you, or promised you something in return.

I love your analogy about a relationship because I think it's perfect. However, I would tweak it a bit; two people with two very different understandings of the terms of this "relationship". You are giving your heart and soul and for you, every word is a contract of fidelity. If you ask them, it's more like a business relationship and since it's "their life" they are afforded the liberty of making some mistakes and decisions, appreciate your devotion, but at the end of the day ultimately they have to make a decision for themselves.

Two different understandings of relationship. One doesn't see "cheating" while the other does. They will ask you "how were you deceived?" I'm just saying I get that; I understand the question. Again as much as I love this team and I've been a 49er fan for a very, very long time, still am one, I don't feel cheated because at the end of the day, it was my choice to love this team AS-IS.

I knew going in this season and was hopeful of some changes, but again over the years I've seen worse franchises make mistakes. Somehow I imagine because this was the model franchise in the NFL, 49er fans feel almost this false obligation that we deserve to be there all the time, consistently. I would argue for most sports fans out there of any sport, disappointment happens more often than not. There can be only one champion each year. Ask Giants fans about love and patience and devotion and frustration... or even worse, Warrior fans.

Maybe it's me but I feel lucky to have remembered those great times, to have a franchise that's had 2 HOF QBs and the NFLs greatest WR, arguably the greatest player. Are the Yorks bad owners yes - but can it be worse? Absolutely. However saying that ownership cheated you out of a great sporting experience through deceit unless you've been paying for that experience.

Yes time is money, but you choose to spend your time here. You choose to buy a ticket. You choose to love the 49ers. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying it's a choice. And if a choice where you clearly understand what you're getting into, how is that deceit? How is that cheating?

We've known for years now the team has needed many parts to get better; QB, pass-rush, CB, DL, primary WR, deep threat WR, better blocking from the OL, on and on. How didn't you know? Maybe I was more of skeptic than most here and didn't drink the cool-aid as much, but without a strong organization, I didn't expect the 49ers to be good/great.

Maybe that's why people here feel cheated?

Your posts are epic and you debate like a champ! Probably the easiest person to "argue" with on this board, being your logical and not a complete nitwit...therefore, I think we are on the "agree to disagree" front lol.

I agree that "feeling like less a fan" as the op is probably a bit brash. In his eyes and opinion he feels "cheated" because Big Mike professed "I want winners!"... among countless other things. We all watched him bench VD because of his error and applauded the coach for being a stern leader and that was his turning point for a lot of us that he'd be a great coach. The ownership texted ESPN with their idiocy as well...

In that respect, we feel cheated, because they promised to deliver something and haven't. We feel cheated because we have the talent... be it... Alex Smith (i'm saying this lightly), Patrick Willis... Frank Gore... Westbrook, Dixon, yada yada yada. I think we all see these players and go... how is this season going this way!? For that, I feel cheated. Not necessarily just because of the ownership, because I agree... they can't fix it RIGHT NOW. I get that. My standpoint on being jaded/cheated by them is ... they haven't, at least in public, come out and said how they would fix this. Layed out a gameplan maybe to the fans... I know they don't owe us that... I dont even expect us to make the playoffs each season. Not because of the track record of the near last decade, but because I like to think each year, on any given sunday, any team has the chance of busting open. What I do expect, is that when we are in a time of such distress.. we see some sense of improvement... somewhere. Hire a GM... Fire Mike, Sign a QB free agent and try a spark... Elevate a dimwitted QB from Practice Squad and just see what happens... we've got nothing to lose at this point. Why have we continued doing the same thing week in and week out?

I don't expect a dynasty, and honestly I don't want it, on some leve. I like to be the envy of the league, rather.... I like my beloved team to be the envy of the league, but I don't envy the Pats fanbase for catchin all the s**t they do either.
I do however, expect a productive season, weather it be on-field results, or seeing changes in the staff that look like they're bettering the team for the future... As of now... it would appear they're literally waiting for the offseason to start making adjustments..

It's just a game and a team fellas. It just happens to be the team we liked and were accustomed to making the playoffs 10+ straight years and winning 5 titles.

No one is less of a fan and it's 7 days between games which means a lot of pissed off fans until Sunday when the ball is kicked off. Then we are all fans with even hope of making a 2-3 score comeback if down by that much no matter how crappy the team is playing.

Then we go back to the usual cycle.

Who gives a f**k! Watch the game, hope they win and complain like s**t if they don't, or in the West Coast, go ride your bike and jog or something.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Sucks for you man, I am and always will be a fan, unless someone comes up with something better than football. Of course I have the 80's and 90's to fall back on. We will be good again man, you just have to keep he faith.

.....

When how and why?

YORKIES absolutely love guys like you with the blind faith and blind devotion.

You can always be a charger fan SD, I will stick with the only football team I could ever conceive of rooting for. But then again, I know what it means to be Faithful, it isn't just a word to me, it is a way of life.

Originally posted by Joecool:
It's just a game and a team fellas. It just happens to be the team we liked and were accustomed to making the playoffs 10+ straight years and winning 5 titles.

No one is less of a fan and it's 7 days between games which means a lot of pissed off fans until Sunday when the ball is kicked off. Then we are all fans with even hope of making a 2-3 score comeback if down by that much no matter how crappy the team is playing.

Then we go back to the usual cycle.

Who gives a f**k! Watch the game, hope they win and complain like s**t if they don't, or in the West Coast, go ride your bike and jog or something.

I laughed! Good one Joe!

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Sucks for you man, I am and always will be a fan, unless someone comes up with something better than football. Of course I have the 80's and 90's to fall back on. We will be good again man, you just have to keep he faith.

.....

When how and why?

YORKIES absolutely love guys like you with the blind faith and blind devotion.

I too give Jed the benefit of the doubt. I mean the kid grew up in the midst of the legacy so I think he's a fan. Of course, I wouldn't put his dad in that category.

I think they made some EXTREMELY poor decisions and were (are?) not willing to spend like Eddie D did. But I don't think they are trying to take advantage of anybody. They are just plain incompetent. If Jed's smart he'd hire an excellent football GM and give him the latitude to run with it. Ie. Realize that what they've been doing is not working.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
To keep this short: I feel that I've been loyal to the team through many frustrating seasons, only to find out that the team ownership has been cheating us as fans by not doing their homework and making sure they've assigned the best personnel available to the positions that need to be filled.

I feel cheated. I don't like feeling cheated. I feel that this ownership will only continue to promise the world, but continually disappoint.

Yes you are 100% right. They have been cheating us. They could put out a better product. They could start with hiring a legit coach and getting a GM.... But this is the YORKIES we are talking about. So good luck with that.

They will keep putting out crap if that fills the stands. If you can fill 70,000 seats with trash why would they want to spend money? A quality GM costs $7 million per year. And a quality coach cost $7 million per year. That's $14 million. Yorks currently have it made. A coach at about $2.5 million a year and zero GM saving $11.5 million... Why change that if you are the Yorks?

So I'm confused on how the franchise is cheating "us"?

Who's "us"?

I can see if you're a season ticket holder and have been for the last 10 years at least or if you're a booster or someone who's really invested in the franchise, but if you're mainly a fan that watches it on TV and just want to feel good because "your" team is doing poorly, you're not being "cheated".

Just my opinion, but if they did well or did badly, what's you're out-of-pocket investment? I think it's a fair question if you feel you're being "cheated". If this is about the 4 or 5 jerseys you buy per season (and let's be real the average fan doesn't buy new jerseys every season), that's nothing pennies on the dollar relative to fans who GO to games, tailgate, etc. every Sunday. IMHO, they have a right to b***h about the owners being cheap, not the "casual" fan.

Don't buy the merchandise/stop watching the games and I guarantee you the "cheat" quotient will decrease significantly.

I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls here but I feel like some of you want it both ways. You want to complain that this ownership sucks and how much to hate the ownership (which won't change anytime soon) and talk about how you're being cheated, but you (apparently) continue to invest time and money into a team you hate. I don't get it. It's like continuing to buy a tanking stock and complaining to everyone how much you hate the company that sells it, yet you daily press the "buy" button at e-trade.

Stop buying the stock.

I b***h and complain about the Niners too, but in no way do I think they're hopeless. They just need a serious change in direction from a management/executive/leadership (ie GM) standpoint. If you think the 49ers are hopeless and will never get back to being good, will never get back to anything like they were during their glory years, hoping for a change that's just not realistic, then please GIVE UP - don't continue to invest time, effort and money if you feel you're personally being cheated as a fan.

There are 31 other choices you have.

FYI they don't put games on TV for fun. They do it to make money. The more people that watch games on TV (so called fake fans) the more money they make on advertising. So he is supporting his franchise just by turning on that TV!

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by bracus:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
To keep this short: I feel that I've been loyal to the team through many frustrating seasons, only to find out that the team ownership has been cheating us as fans by not doing their homework and making sure they've assigned the best personnel available to the positions that need to be filled.

I feel cheated. I don't like feeling cheated. I feel that this ownership will only continue to promise the world, but continually disappoint.

Yes you are 100% right. They have been cheating us. They could put out a better product. They could start with hiring a legit coach and getting a GM.... But this is the YORKIES we are talking about. So good luck with that.

They will keep putting out crap if that fills the stands. If you can fill 70,000 seats with trash why would they want to spend money? A quality GM costs $7 million per year. And a quality coach cost $7 million per year. That's $14 million. Yorks currently have it made. A coach at about $2.5 million a year and zero GM saving $11.5 million... Why change that if you are the Yorks?

So I'm confused on how the franchise is cheating "us"?

Who's "us"?

I can see if you're a season ticket holder and have been for the last 10 years at least or if you're a booster or someone who's really invested in the franchise, but if you're mainly a fan that watches it on TV and just want to feel good because "your" team is doing poorly, you're not being "cheated".

Just my opinion, but if they did well or did badly, what's you're out-of-pocket investment? I think it's a fair question if you feel you're being "cheated". If this is about the 4 or 5 jerseys you buy per season (and let's be real the average fan doesn't buy new jerseys every season), that's nothing pennies on the dollar relative to fans who GO to games, tailgate, etc. every Sunday. IMHO, they have a right to b***h about the owners being cheap, not the "casual" fan.

Don't buy the merchandise/stop watching the games and I guarantee you the "cheat" quotient will decrease significantly.

I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls here but I feel like some of you want it both ways. You want to complain that this ownership sucks and how much to hate the ownership (which won't change anytime soon) and talk about how you're being cheated, but you (apparently) continue to invest time and money into a team you hate. I don't get it. It's like continuing to buy a tanking stock and complaining to everyone how much you hate the company that sells it, yet you daily press the "buy" button at e-trade.

Stop buying the stock.

I b***h and complain about the Niners too, but in no way do I think they're hopeless. They just need a serious change in direction from a management/executive/leadership (ie GM) standpoint. If you think the 49ers are hopeless and will never get back to being good, will never get back to anything like they were during their glory years, hoping for a change that's just not realistic, then please GIVE UP - don't continue to invest time, effort and money if you feel you're personally being cheated as a fan.

There are 31 other choices you have.

FYI they don't put games on TV for fun. They do it to make money. The more people that watch games on TV (so called fake fans) the more money they make on advertising. So he is supporting his franchise just by turning on that TV!

I am aware of this but there's clearly a priority to the "participation" or "support" which is what I allude to above if you had read the entire post. If TV watching was the only criteria the NFL or the 49ers thought was important their wouldn't be any black-out rules. FYI, hope the Niners-Chargers game isn't blacked out.

did he really say watching tv is investing in the team?

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by bracus:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
To keep this short: I feel that I've been loyal to the team through many frustrating seasons, only to find out that the team ownership has been cheating us as fans by not doing their homework and making sure they've assigned the best personnel available to the positions that need to be filled.

I feel cheated. I don't like feeling cheated. I feel that this ownership will only continue to promise the world, but continually disappoint.

Yes you are 100% right. They have been cheating us. They could put out a better product. They could start with hiring a legit coach and getting a GM.... But this is the YORKIES we are talking about. So good luck with that.

They will keep putting out crap if that fills the stands. If you can fill 70,000 seats with trash why would they want to spend money? A quality GM costs $7 million per year. And a quality coach cost $7 million per year. That's $14 million. Yorks currently have it made. A coach at about $2.5 million a year and zero GM saving $11.5 million... Why change that if you are the Yorks?

So I'm confused on how the franchise is cheating "us"?

Who's "us"?

I can see if you're a season ticket holder and have been for the last 10 years at least or if you're a booster or someone who's really invested in the franchise, but if you're mainly a fan that watches it on TV and just want to feel good because "your" team is doing poorly, you're not being "cheated".

Just my opinion, but if they did well or did badly, what's you're out-of-pocket investment? I think it's a fair question if you feel you're being "cheated". If this is about the 4 or 5 jerseys you buy per season (and let's be real the average fan doesn't buy new jerseys every season), that's nothing pennies on the dollar relative to fans who GO to games, tailgate, etc. every Sunday. IMHO, they have a right to b***h about the owners being cheap, not the "casual" fan.

Don't buy the merchandise/stop watching the games and I guarantee you the "cheat" quotient will decrease significantly.

I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls here but I feel like some of you want it both ways. You want to complain that this ownership sucks and how much to hate the ownership (which won't change anytime soon) and talk about how you're being cheated, but you (apparently) continue to invest time and money into a team you hate. I don't get it. It's like continuing to buy a tanking stock and complaining to everyone how much you hate the company that sells it, yet you daily press the "buy" button at e-trade.

Stop buying the stock.

I b***h and complain about the Niners too, but in no way do I think they're hopeless. They just need a serious change in direction from a management/executive/leadership (ie GM) standpoint. If you think the 49ers are hopeless and will never get back to being good, will never get back to anything like they were during their glory years, hoping for a change that's just not realistic, then please GIVE UP - don't continue to invest time, effort and money if you feel you're personally being cheated as a fan.

There are 31 other choices you have.

FYI they don't put games on TV for fun. They do it to make money. The more people that watch games on TV (so called fake fans) the more money they make on advertising. So he is supporting his franchise just by turning on that TV![/quote]

I am aware of this but there's clearly a priority to the "participation" or "support" which is what I allude to above if you had read the entire post. If TV watching was the only criteria the NFL or the 49ers thought was important their wouldn't be any black-out rules. FYI, hope the Niners-Chargers game isn't blacked out.

did he really say watching tv is investing in the team?

If TV gets no ratings, they'll never put it on instead of losing money. Do you not understand how television works?

As for the game Thursday, I don't think they've ever blacked out an NFL Network game. Plus it's almost sold out if I heard right.

Originally posted by bracus:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by bracus:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
To keep this short: I feel that I've been loyal to the team through many frustrating seasons, only to find out that the team ownership has been cheating us as fans by not doing their homework and making sure they've assigned the best personnel available to the positions that need to be filled.

I feel cheated. I don't like feeling cheated. I feel that this ownership will only continue to promise the world, but continually disappoint.

Yes you are 100% right. They have been cheating us. They could put out a better product. They could start with hiring a legit coach and getting a GM.... But this is the YORKIES we are talking about. So good luck with that.

They will keep putting out crap if that fills the stands. If you can fill 70,000 seats with trash why would they want to spend money? A quality GM costs $7 million per year. And a quality coach cost $7 million per year. That's $14 million. Yorks currently have it made. A coach at about $2.5 million a year and zero GM saving $11.5 million... Why change that if you are the Yorks?

So I'm confused on how the franchise is cheating "us"?

Who's "us"?

I can see if you're a season ticket holder and have been for the last 10 years at least or if you're a booster or someone who's really invested in the franchise, but if you're mainly a fan that watches it on TV and just want to feel good because "your" team is doing poorly, you're not being "cheated".

Just my opinion, but if they did well or did badly, what's you're out-of-pocket investment? I think it's a fair question if you feel you're being "cheated". If this is about the 4 or 5 jerseys you buy per season (and let's be real the average fan doesn't buy new jerseys every season), that's nothing pennies on the dollar relative to fans who GO to games, tailgate, etc. every Sunday. IMHO, they have a right to b***h about the owners being cheap, not the "casual" fan.

Don't buy the merchandise/stop watching the games and I guarantee you the "cheat" quotient will decrease significantly.

I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls here but I feel like some of you want it both ways. You want to complain that this ownership sucks and how much to hate the ownership (which won't change anytime soon) and talk about how you're being cheated, but you (apparently) continue to invest time and money into a team you hate. I don't get it. It's like continuing to buy a tanking stock and complaining to everyone how much you hate the company that sells it, yet you daily press the "buy" button at e-trade.

Stop buying the stock.

I b***h and complain about the Niners too, but in no way do I think they're hopeless. They just need a serious change in direction from a management/executive/leadership (ie GM) standpoint. If you think the 49ers are hopeless and will never get back to being good, will never get back to anything like they were during their glory years, hoping for a change that's just not realistic, then please GIVE UP - don't continue to invest time, effort and money if you feel you're personally being cheated as a fan.

There are 31 other choices you have.

FYI they don't put games on TV for fun. They do it to make money. The more people that watch games on TV (so called fake fans) the more money they make on advertising. So he is supporting his franchise just by turning on that TV![/quote]

I am aware of this but there's clearly a priority to the "participation" or "support" which is what I allude to above if you had read the entire post. If TV watching was the only criteria the NFL or the 49ers thought was important their wouldn't be any black-out rules. FYI, hope the Niners-Chargers game isn't blacked out.

did he really say watching tv is investing in the team?

If TV gets no ratings, they'll never put it on instead of losing money. Do you not understand how television works?

As for the game Thursday, I don't think they've ever blacked out an NFL Network game. Plus it's almost sold out if I heard right.

Do you understand how NFL revenue sharing works?