Now that I have rewatched the game...

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

OK, if you say so. My job here isn't to convince the inconvincable. Feel free to hate the guy if it makes you feel better.

BTW, Looking at numbers without perspective is NOT objecive BTW. Did you know that Joe Flacco and Bruce Gradkowski have almost identical QB Ratings? I guess they are the same OBJECTIVELY, right?

Moving on...

Marvin, I don't see any mention of Smith not throwing to the correct receivers, meaning he either didn't see the open receiver or made the incorrect read.

Unless we have game film, we really can't properly assess the QB which is why we can only go by the analyst who is watching the game live and Collinsworth did a great job with the production replaying actually open looks Alex had deep that he should have thrown. Even that fumble TD should have been thrown to Vernon.

Honestly, Chris Collinsworth and that team did a great job of truly analyzing what wasn't happening with some great use of "coach's film" type of footage. You don't normally see this with other broadcasters/analysts. It almost seems as though he was trying to answer the question of what's wrong with the 49ers. I can understand why with him being a former WR who was probably "always" wide open.

Also, even Shaun Hill and JTO look good when they aren't fumbling the ball or throwing INTs. Almost every QB does. JTO's problem and less with Hill is exactly what Alex Smith is doing, which is fumbling or throwing a pick twice a game. You keep doing that and you go from average QB to terrible/benched QB.

No, but I wouldn't trust Collinsworth either. If there is a play where Morgan is the first read for a 15 yard gain and Ginn is the second tead for a 30 yard gain and its 2nd and 10, throwing to Morgan for 15 yards and a first down doesn't make it the incorrect read. It means it was his first read, he took it, they got a first down. Move on.

Yes, if that's the case then he's gotta go with the first guy open but it doesn't mean it's still the correct read. It's also a case of reading the defense and understanding there's an over the top possibility.

I'm still giving him more chances but I am not holding back when criticism is due and not going to try and pull out excuses for him. Gore f**ked up too and should have been benched for a drive. Who knows, sometimes you discover new players and what they bring to the team. Dixon would have punished that beat up Defensive line and Gore would have come in and cleaned it all up.

Originally posted by GoGetit:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Ya know, its amazing what can happen when you rewatch a game and alot of the tension is removed. You see things quite a bit differently. I think you end up seeing things the way fans of other teams see them.

Anyway....many things stood out.

1) The play of Alex Smith
2) The playcalling of Mike Johnson
3) The Play of Michael Crabtree
4) The problems on D.

1) Alex: This is well covered territory and I know I'm not breaking any ground here, but I watched him very closely when I watched the game again. I know this won't be popular, but he actually played pretty damn well even before the argument with Singletary.

I was on the verge of calling for the Yorks to blow the team up and waive goodbye to Alex, but now I'm not so sure.

He made 2 mistakes. One was the INT on the deep pass to Ginn. Ya, it wasn't a great pass, but those things are low % throws so I can't blame him for taking the shot we have been wanting him to take all season. It would also help if Ginn made more of an effort on the ball, but it was still not a great throw and was Alex's fault. The theres the fumble. No excuse. Horrible. He'd be the first to tell you that. That simply can't happen. Period. The final INT of the game tho was really Anthony Davis fault. If you watch, Alex makes the decision to throw the ball BEFORE the DE breaks free of Davis. Alex didn't have a chance.

Other than that tho....he looked GOOD. I mean REALLY good. If you don't believe me, watch the game again. The drives that stalled did so because of turnovers. The Niners punted only ONCE until there were 5 minutes left in the THIRD quarter. Alex was hitting passes on third down. He was hitting passes for 15 and 20 yards, so they weren't just checkdowns. He was hitting Crabtree, Ginn, Davis, Morgan, Gore....he was getting EVERYONE involved. He hit Ginn for almost 20 yards on a 3rd and ONE. He hit Davis for about 25 yards on 3rd and 15.

After the confrontation with Sing, he was even better.

Smith is everyones favorite scapegoat. To be fair he has at times made it easy to scapegoat him. Sunday tho....he played pretty damn well. If you don't believe me, watch the game again.



2) Johnson: I was reading yesterday that there were peeps here who were critical of MJs playcalling. WATCH THE GAME AGAIN. He was AGGRESSIVE. The Niners punted ONCE until 5 min left in the 3rd quarter and only punted 3 times in the entire game. One of those punts came after three consecutive incomplete passes. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the turnovers happened on a drive in which the 49ers had gotten a first down. They were moving the ball. The second Gore fumble was after back to back playes of 25 yards (pass to Davis) and 17 yards (run by Gore).

After watching this game again, I am not concerned at all about the playcalling.


3) Crabtree: Crabtree started to look like the guy who played at Texas Tech. The attribute of his game that has been missing so far is his run-after-catch ability. He showed it on some nifty plays down the sideline. He also ran a great route and made a great catch on his TD. What strikes me the most tho are the length of his arms. LOL. Serously...he looks like a freak. Watch him when he puts his arms up after scoring the TD...I swear to got he could fly with those things...lol.


4) The D: This is the one that concerns me. They to often find themselves out of position and have a reciever running through the secondary with nobody within 5-10 yards of them. Kolb looked good, but when a guy is that open, its pretty hard to miss them. The run D has also been showing some cracks of late. Some have said that WIllis may be hurt, but I don't think thats it. I think he's getting covered up by lionemen more than in the past. He hasn't been able to run free. I dunno if thats something offenses are doing or if its the D not protecting him. I just hope they fix it.

I'm also concerned about Mays. Its not that he played poorly. He just seems a step slow right now (although he caused the fumble that the Eagles recovered). Its not about his potential...I'm just not sure he was ready to play. We'll see and I hope he proves me wrong.

You're kidding about Mays right? The kid is doing an on the job training. you need to review the game again. There are too many others you need to evaluate.

Nope. Not kidding. I didn't say he wouldn't be good. I said I was concerned that he isn't ready. I'd love to be wrong.

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Smith wasn't the sole reason. He was equally culpable with Gore. The offense has been more responsible for our losses this season than the D.

I don't know about that. Gore had 2 turnovers that were his fault (great plays by the D too) but didn't do much in the running game to help the team win. 52 yards on 18 carries isn't going to cut it, especially when you put the ball on the carpet twice.

Alex's fumble was all on him. Bad in more ways than one (he never should have rolled out there in the first place) but he had over 300 yards and 3 TDs.

I'd still say they equally hurt us since Smith's fumble was returned for 6. Either way, the point is the offense hurts the team too much with TOs and 3 and outs. The D is going to break at some point.

so whats your excuse for the D when we score on the opening drive against the Eagles then they march right down the field and score to tie it up...

The Bears D was able to stop the Panthers after The Bears QB threw 4 ints and 63 yards for the entire game

But, but but... It's a QB-driven league!

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by sachie23:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

Lol. I love how you twist the statistics to fit your argument. The first interception ended up with the Eagles having to start a drive on their 3 yard line. Hardly all that costly. The second interception was at the end of the game when A Davis completely whiffed on a block and he was hit as he threw. Give Alex more than 1.5 seconds on that play and that ball is probably not picked off.

The fumble obviously was horrible.

Gore, as good of a player as he is had two extremely costly turnovers. Both occurred when we were driving down the field. Alex Smith was not the reason we lost this game.

If I remember right the 1st Int was on 2nd down and the team was around mid field. So I would say that was very costly when you still have 3rd down to try and get a 1st down and points on the board. His last pick looked to me like he just thew up in the air. He did get killed but he let the ball go before he got hit. I have been a huge Alex supporter but I he just doesn't have it. He makes mistakes every week that hurt the team.

I don't think that last INT was a clean throw but it was not a smart throw considering the situation. 2nd down and you need a FG when you have 2 more downs to get the first. Pressure is on so don't try to force it.

Alex is one of the few QB's that I rarely see pump fake or hold up and tuck when he's going to get hit. He either leaves to early or throws the ball when he shouldn't.

It was actually 3rd down. We were not in field goal range. If he completes the pass we are in fairly comfortable field goal range. That pass wobbled more than a Shaun Hill pass. There is no way that that was a clean throw (this one was actually more directed toward the previous poster than to you).

Watch the play again, he had two seconds at most to throw the ball. Is it not reasonable to expect your o-line to not get beat almost immediately in a one-on-one battle? I agree it would be nice for him to pump-fake every now and then, but if he pump-fakes here it's likely a fumble. He couldn't have taken a sack here. 4th and 17 with the way the Eagles rush the passer? Forget about it.

I did and 2 seconds is generous. It was closer to 1.5 - 1.75 seconds.

Originally posted by sachie23:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

Lol. I love how you twist the statistics to fit your argument. The first interception ended up with the Eagles having to start a drive on their 3 yard line. Hardly all that costly. The second interception was at the end of the game when A Davis completely whiffed on a block and he was hit as he threw. Give Alex more than 1.5 seconds on that play and that ball is probably not picked off.

The fumble obviously was horrible.

Gore, as good of a player as he is had two extremely costly turnovers. Both occurred when we were driving down the field. Alex Smith was not the reason we lost this game.

If I remember right the 1st Int was on 2nd down and the team was around mid field. So I would say that was very costly when you still have 3rd down to try and get a 1st down and points on the board. His last pick looked to me like he just thew up in the air. He did get killed but he let the ball go before he got hit. I have been a huge Alex supporter but I he just doesn't have it. He makes mistakes every week that hurt the team.

You remember wrong.

Smith began his throwing motion JUST before the DE busted free of Davis and CLEARLY hits Smith in the chest before he could complete the throwing motion. The reciever he was throwing to BTW (Zieglar) was open for about 12 yards and a first down.

Originally posted by kemp_j:
Good post..... I'm gonna watch it again, maybe it'll make me feel better. I don't know what's happening to our Defense. I thought it was better than they are playing right now.......

If you wanna feel better, only start from when the crowd started chanting for Carr. Anyways, about the Defense, every game around 4 min. mark in 4th quarter, if we lead by 3 or 7, I start feeling a 30+ yard pass completion from the opponent. I have no faith in this D in the end of the game. They always give up majority of the field in like 5 plays in the end.

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Smith wasn't the sole reason. He was equally culpable with Gore. The offense has been more responsible for our losses this season than the D.

I don't know about that. Gore had 2 turnovers that were his fault (great plays by the D too) but didn't do much in the running game to help the team win. 52 yards on 18 carries isn't going to cut it, especially when you put the ball on the carpet twice.

Alex's fumble was all on him. Bad in more ways than one (he never should have rolled out there in the first place) but he had over 300 yards and 3 TDs.

I'd still say they equally hurt us since Smith's fumble was returned for 6. Either way, the point is the offense hurts the team too much with TOs and 3 and outs. The D is going to break at some point.

so whats your excuse for the D when we score on the opening drive against the Eagles then they march right down the field and score to tie it up...

The Bears D was able to stop the Panthers after The Bears QB threw 4 ints and 63 yards for the entire game

But, but but... It's a QB-driven league!

I think you forgot to mention the Panthers QB's threw 3 combined INTs. They also had 4 fumbles but none were lost.

"Face!"

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

Lol. I love how you twist the statistics to fit your argument. The first interception ended up with the Eagles having to start a drive on their 3 yard line. Hardly all that costly. The second interception was at the end of the game when A Davis completely whiffed on a block and he was hit as he threw. Give Alex more than 1.5 seconds on that play and that ball is probably not picked off.

The fumble obviously was horrible.

Gore, as good of a player as he is had two extremely costly turnovers. Both occurred when we were driving down the field. Alex Smith was not the reason we lost this game.

But missing open looks doesn't matter? We had a major issue with us not stretching the defense. How can we if the QB isn't finding the right guys?

He is lacking some of the most important qualities a QB needs. He proved to be Mr. Checkdown and not Mr. I am only running the offense as it's called.

What game were you watching? Mr Checkdown? You can say that about previous games but not on Sunday. He was accurate as hell and found the right guys almost all of the time.

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by boast:
Alex is a good quarterback and great in the RZ. those who can't see that are blinded by their hatred.

Alex Smith in the Red Zone this season...

17 Att, 21 Comp, 100 Yards, 81.0 Comp %, 6 TDs, 0 INTs, 126.1 QB Rating

Alex Smith in Games This Season: 0-5

Yes, because as we all know, Football is NOT a team sport.

Whats that? Oh...Really? Hrmmmm......

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Smith wasn't the sole reason. He was equally culpable with Gore. The offense has been more responsible for our losses this season than the D.

I don't know about that. Gore had 2 turnovers that were his fault (great plays by the D too) but didn't do much in the running game to help the team win. 52 yards on 18 carries isn't going to cut it, especially when you put the ball on the carpet twice.

Alex's fumble was all on him. Bad in more ways than one (he never should have rolled out there in the first place) but he had over 300 yards and 3 TDs.

I'd still say they equally hurt us since Smith's fumble was returned for 6. Either way, the point is the offense hurts the team too much with TOs and 3 and outs. The D is going to break at some point.

so whats your excuse for the D when we score on the opening drive against the Eagles then they march right down the field and score to tie it up...

The Bears D was able to stop the Panthers after The Bears QB threw 4 ints and 63 yards for the entire game

But, but but... It's a QB-driven league!

By insinuating that it's NOT a QB driven league, you lose credibility.

Awesome post Marvin...

And to all those who rewatched the game and provided their perspective, congrats. It's pretty telling when all those who rewatched the game have almost the same exact points.

Great work fans...nice to see our loyal, educated fans back esp. after an 0-5 start!

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Smith wasn't the sole reason. He was equally culpable with Gore. The offense has been more responsible for our losses this season than the D.

I don't know about that. Gore had 2 turnovers that were his fault (great plays by the D too) but didn't do much in the running game to help the team win. 52 yards on 18 carries isn't going to cut it, especially when you put the ball on the carpet twice.

Alex's fumble was all on him. Bad in more ways than one (he never should have rolled out there in the first place) but he had over 300 yards and 3 TDs.

I'd still say they equally hurt us since Smith's fumble was returned for 6. Either way, the point is the offense hurts the team too much with TOs and 3 and outs. The D is going to break at some point.

so whats your excuse for the D when we score on the opening drive against the Eagles then they march right down the field and score to tie it up...

The Bears D was able to stop the Panthers after The Bears QB threw 4 ints and 63 yards for the entire game

But, but but... It's a QB-driven league!

I think you forgot to mention the Panthers QB's threw 3 combined INTs. They also had 4 fumbles but none were lost.

"Face!"

Exactly. I didn't see much of the game, only what they showed on the RedZone channel. That's the point. The Bears D stopped them, those three INTs was part of stopping them. It's pretty cut and dry what happened when you win a game by 17 points and your QB throws 4 picks and only 63 yards. Forte was the offense, the D did the rest. Even dealing with 4 picks.

Originally posted by valrod33:
agreed on all points

Yeah.

One glaring concern to me on the D is we have no top flight corner. We can't run with top WR. That has to be solved.

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Smith wasn't the sole reason. He was equally culpable with Gore. The offense has been more responsible for our losses this season than the D.

I don't know about that. Gore had 2 turnovers that were his fault (great plays by the D too) but didn't do much in the running game to help the team win. 52 yards on 18 carries isn't going to cut it, especially when you put the ball on the carpet twice.

Alex's fumble was all on him. Bad in more ways than one (he never should have rolled out there in the first place) but he had over 300 yards and 3 TDs.

I'd still say they equally hurt us since Smith's fumble was returned for 6. Either way, the point is the offense hurts the team too much with TOs and 3 and outs. The D is going to break at some point.

so whats your excuse for the D when we score on the opening drive against the Eagles then they march right down the field and score to tie it up...

The Bears D was able to stop the Panthers after The Bears QB threw 4 ints and 63 yards for the entire game

But, but but... It's a QB-driven league!

I think you forgot to mention the Panthers QB's threw 3 combined INTs. They also had 4 fumbles but none were lost.

"Face!"

Exactly. I didn't see much of the game, only what they showed on the RedZone channel. That's the point. The Bears D stopped them, those three INTs was part of stopping them. It's pretty cut and dry what happened when you win a game by 17 points and your QB throws 4 picks and only 63 yards. Forte was the offense, the D did the rest. Even dealing with 4 picks.

Dude the Panthers have quite possibly the worst passing offense I've ever seen. I did watch large chunks of that game for Forte. It reminded me of the Cody Pickett/Ken Dorsey 49ers.

Great post!!