Now that I have rewatched the game...

Dont bring up Chris Collinsworth please. Dude gets paid by NBC to say real simple sh!t to make football more accessible to people who dont know sh!t. All announcers do. Everytime something went wrong he goes right to the QB. But he doesnt do that every week does he? They push an agenda on television, i thought everyone knew that? Form your own opinion but plz dont rehash some second rate hack WR's opinion.

Marvin, excellent post--I agree on what you said.


The Niners offense just needs to stop turning the ball over--the O line has growing pains.

the defense is not a shut down defense--it is more a make the opponent have time consuming drives and they will make a mistake kind of defense.

The D has regressed some because the d line play is not as good as in the past 3 years--Franklins holdout and no new blood added.

linebacker are OK--slight falloff.

the secondary misses Dre Bly---we need a top corner--bad.

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Smith wasn't the sole reason. He was equally culpable with Gore. The offense has been more responsible for our losses this season than the D.

I don't know about that. Gore had 2 turnovers that were his fault (great plays by the D too) but didn't do much in the running game to help the team win. 52 yards on 18 carries isn't going to cut it, especially when you put the ball on the carpet twice.

Alex's fumble was all on him. Bad in more ways than one (he never should have rolled out there in the first place) but he had over 300 yards and 3 TDs.

Originally posted by sachie23:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

Lol. I love how you twist the statistics to fit your argument. The first interception ended up with the Eagles having to start a drive on their 3 yard line. Hardly all that costly. The second interception was at the end of the game when A Davis completely whiffed on a block and he was hit as he threw. Give Alex more than 1.5 seconds on that play and that ball is probably not picked off.

The fumble obviously was horrible.

Gore, as good of a player as he is had two extremely costly turnovers. Both occurred when we were driving down the field. Alex Smith was not the reason we lost this game.

If I remember right the 1st Int was on 2nd down and the team was around mid field. So I would say that was very costly when you still have 3rd down to try and get a 1st down and points on the board. His last pick looked to me like he just thew up in the air. He did get killed but he let the ball go before he got hit. I have been a huge Alex supporter but I he just doesn't have it. He makes mistakes every week that hurt the team.

I don't think that last INT was a clean throw but it was not a smart throw considering the situation. 2nd down and you need a FG when you have 2 more downs to get the first. Pressure is on so don't try to force it.

Alex is one of the few QB's that I rarely see pump fake or hold up and tuck when he's going to get hit. He either leaves to early or throws the ball when he shouldn't.

Originally posted by Bayerrya:
Dont bring up Chris Collinsworth please. Dude gets paid by NBC to say real simple sh!t to make football more accessible to people who dont know sh!t. All announcers do. Everytime something went wrong he goes right to the QB. But he doesnt do that every week does he? They push an agenda on television, i thought everyone knew that? Form your own opinion but plz dont rehash some second rate hack WR's opinion.

This. Every week it's all about Alex. Every bad play is all on the QB, no matter what. But when other QBs do the same thing, or worse, the "analyst" doesn't have the same things to say.

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Smith wasn't the sole reason. He was equally culpable with Gore. The offense has been more responsible for our losses this season than the D.

I don't know about that. Gore had 2 turnovers that were his fault (great plays by the D too) but didn't do much in the running game to help the team win. 52 yards on 18 carries isn't going to cut it, especially when you put the ball on the carpet twice.

Alex's fumble was all on him. Bad in more ways than one (he never should have rolled out there in the first place) but he had over 300 yards and 3 TDs.

I'd still say they equally hurt us since Smith's fumble was returned for 6. Either way, the point is the offense hurts the team too much with TOs and 3 and outs. The D is going to break at some point.

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Smith wasn't the sole reason. He was equally culpable with Gore. The offense has been more responsible for our losses this season than the D.

I don't know about that. Gore had 2 turnovers that were his fault (great plays by the D too) but didn't do much in the running game to help the team win. 52 yards on 18 carries isn't going to cut it, especially when you put the ball on the carpet twice.

Alex's fumble was all on him. Bad in more ways than one (he never should have rolled out there in the first place) but he had over 300 yards and 3 TDs.

I'd still say they equally hurt us since Smith's fumble was returned for 6. Either way, the point is the offense hurts the team too much with TOs and 3 and outs. The D is going to break at some point.

so whats your excuse for the D when we score on the opening drive against the Eagles then they march right down the field and score to tie it up...

The Bears D was able to stop the Panthers after The Bears QB threw 4 ints and 63 yards for the entire game

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
interesting points. i haven't rewatched the game, but now that i've had time to think about it--and the emotions of the loss have subsided--its hard to say that, offensively, we played that poorly, aside from the turnovers. Unfortunately, turnovers are one of the biggest determining factors in winning football games. However, the only TO that Alex can really be blamed for in this game was the fumble--it was a backbreaker. I'm encouraged by his resiliency to come out and get us back into the game, and I'm excited by his apparent resolve to salvage both his career and this season..But we'll see. We've got to win games in bunches now, and until we do, we're still a bad team.

as to the defense...They have been really underwhelming this year. Not really sure what the problem there is, but I have a feeling that if we start scoring early and often, the D will play light years better.

It starts with Alex. We all knew this was the make-or-break year for him, the final chance to honestly evaluate him, and that hasn't changed. The whole team is depending on him now--not to manage the game but to go out and win it.

Thank you. Someone who fukking gets it. If the offense can score more than 10 pts through 3.5 quarters, the D wouldn't be under such pressure all game. Of course the simpletons don't understand this and will continually blame our D (in a veiled attempt to defend Alex) for everything despite the 15 TOs by our offense.

yeah, but to be fair, this was supposed to be an elite, top 5 defense. Did you see how the MIN and NYJ D's played last night? that's how an elite, top 5 D is supposed to play: put in a bad situation, you don't give up TD's and, even when the offense isn't scoring a lot of points, you make it almost impossible for the opposing team to score. Yes, our D has been in a lot of bad spots, and yes, they haven't gotten enough support from the offense--but they haven't played anywhere near their hype, and I think we're all disappointed by that.

we're a bad team, and I think that if anyone one player really stepped up and started making big plays every week, we'd be fine. But no one, on any unit, has made the kind of big plays that other teams seem to always make against us.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

OK, if you say so. My job here isn't to convince the inconvincable. Feel free to hate the guy if it makes you feel better.

BTW, Looking at numbers without perspective is NOT objecive BTW. Did you know that Joe Flacco and Bruce Gradkowski have almost identical QB Ratings? I guess they are the same OBJECTIVELY, right?

Moving on...

Marvin, I don't see any mention of Smith not throwing to the correct receivers, meaning he either didn't see the open receiver or made the incorrect read.

Unless we have game film, we really can't properly assess the QB which is why we can only go by the analyst who is watching the game live and Collinsworth did a great job with the production replaying actually open looks Alex had deep that he should have thrown. Even that fumble TD should have been thrown to Vernon.

Honestly, Chris Collinsworth and that team did a great job of truly analyzing what wasn't happening with some great use of "coach's film" type of footage. You don't normally see this with other broadcasters/analysts. It almost seems as though he was trying to answer the question of what's wrong with the 49ers. I can understand why with him being a former WR who was probably "always" wide open.

Also, even Shaun Hill and JTO look good when they aren't fumbling the ball or throwing INTs. Almost every QB does. JTO's problem and less with Hill is exactly what Alex Smith is doing, which is fumbling or throwing a pick twice a game. You keep doing that and you go from average QB to terrible/benched QB.

No, but I wouldn't trust Collinsworth either. If there is a play where Morgan is the first read for a 15 yard gain and Ginn is the second tead for a 30 yard gain and its 2nd and 10, throwing to Morgan for 15 yards and a first down doesn't make it the incorrect read. It means it was his first read, he took it, they got a first down. Move on.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by sachie23:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

Lol. I love how you twist the statistics to fit your argument. The first interception ended up with the Eagles having to start a drive on their 3 yard line. Hardly all that costly. The second interception was at the end of the game when A Davis completely whiffed on a block and he was hit as he threw. Give Alex more than 1.5 seconds on that play and that ball is probably not picked off.

The fumble obviously was horrible.

Gore, as good of a player as he is had two extremely costly turnovers. Both occurred when we were driving down the field. Alex Smith was not the reason we lost this game.

If I remember right the 1st Int was on 2nd down and the team was around mid field. So I would say that was very costly when you still have 3rd down to try and get a 1st down and points on the board. His last pick looked to me like he just thew up in the air. He did get killed but he let the ball go before he got hit. I have been a huge Alex supporter but I he just doesn't have it. He makes mistakes every week that hurt the team.

I don't think that last INT was a clean throw but it was not a smart throw considering the situation. 2nd down and you need a FG when you have 2 more downs to get the first. Pressure is on so don't try to force it.

Alex is one of the few QB's that I rarely see pump fake or hold up and tuck when he's going to get hit. He either leaves to early or throws the ball when he shouldn't.

It was actually 3rd down. We were not in field goal range. If he completes the pass we are in fairly comfortable field goal range. That pass wobbled more than a Shaun Hill pass. There is no way that that was a clean throw (this one was actually more directed toward the previous poster than to you).

Watch the play again, he had two seconds at most to throw the ball. Is it not reasonable to expect your o-line to not get beat almost immediately in a one-on-one battle? I agree it would be nice for him to pump-fake every now and then, but if he pump-fakes here it's likely a fumble. He couldn't have taken a sack here. 4th and 17 with the way the Eagles rush the passer? Forget about it.

That was a great post and I feel ya...... I was at the game too and re-watched it yesterday.

I felt the same way...... Smith had a great game and seriously played his tail off. He made some great throws and spread the ball all over the field. It was great to see him get in sync with Crabtree who also had a great game. What inspired me the most was his play on 3rd downs. He completed so many of them and they weren't checkdowns. He threw the ball down the field. We gave the ball back at the worst times..... always after just completing a 1st down. Smith tried to do too much on that fumble and should have just taken the sack. His deep int wasn't the best pass but Ginn did nothing to prevent it from happening. MJ's playcalling was great and he mixed up his calls and was creative. I would like to see Dixon get some playing time and mix up the back field a bit. IDK...... something needs to be done about the D as it doesn't seem we get the turn overs we need or stops at the most important times.

I can't figure this out anymore from week to week but can tell you we just keep hurting ourselves as 5 turnovers in any game just won't do it.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

Lol. I love how you twist the statistics to fit your argument. The first interception ended up with the Eagles having to start a drive on their 3 yard line. Hardly all that costly. The second interception was at the end of the game when A Davis completely whiffed on a block and he was hit as he threw. Give Alex more than 1.5 seconds on that play and that ball is probably not picked off.

The fumble obviously was horrible.

Gore, as good of a player as he is had two extremely costly turnovers. Both occurred when we were driving down the field. Alex Smith was not the reason we lost this game.

But missing open looks doesn't matter? We had a major issue with us not stretching the defense. How can we if the QB isn't finding the right guys?

He is lacking some of the most important qualities a QB needs. He proved to be Mr. Checkdown and not Mr. I am only running the offense as it's called.

"Mr. Checkdown" threw for over 300 yards and complete SEVERAL passes of 15 to 20 yards and a few of 30-40 yards.

STOP listening to Collinsworth. He doesn't know the reads on a play. Just because a guy appears open, that doesn't mean you throw to him. If he's the second read but the first read is wide open, you throw to the first read.

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Smith wasn't the sole reason. He was equally culpable with Gore. The offense has been more responsible for our losses this season than the D.

I don't know about that. Gore had 2 turnovers that were his fault (great plays by the D too) but didn't do much in the running game to help the team win. 52 yards on 18 carries isn't going to cut it, especially when you put the ball on the carpet twice.

Alex's fumble was all on him. Bad in more ways than one (he never should have rolled out there in the first place) but he had over 300 yards and 3 TDs.

I'd still say they equally hurt us since Smith's fumble was returned for 6. Either way, the point is the offense hurts the team too much with TOs and 3 and outs. The D is going to break at some point.

so whats your excuse for the D when we score on the opening drive against the Eagles then they march right down the field and score to tie it up...

The Bears D was able to stop the Panthers after The Bears QB threw 4 ints and 63 yards for the entire game

Like I've said, the offense being so bad and TO prove puts extra scrutiny on our D. So they gave up an opening drive TD? That was their lowest point this past weekend. After that, they played great. The other Eagles TD comes on a 50 yard drive (after another TO).

The Eagles are not the Panthers, so that's not even a consideration.

Originally posted by bzborow1:
I agree with the original poster, this was not the game to question Alex Smith. The game plan was better, and the team performed better as a result. For me the only real bad move Smith made was the fumble, the other two can be justified. But again, nobody's talking about Frank Gore either, which they should be. Gore was awesome in pass protection, but fumbled twice, losing both.

What's even more disheartening is that the head coach took the advice of the booing fans and tried to yank Smith. To me, a coach is supposed to SEE, in real time, the kinds of things us regular folk have to go back and watch again. That's why they're making millions to coach and we are not...yet Mike doesn't have that level of knowledge yet.

Honestly, I think the game just moves too fast for Mike Singletary at this point. He probably has a decent idea of what he wants to do, but just can't see things on the field as they happen and adjust.

Let's not forget how many times Gore tripped at or behind the line of scrimmage. I think the ground had the biggest # of tackles on Gore.

[ Edited by TDilvr on Oct 12, 2010 at 11:25:33 ]

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Ya know, its amazing what can happen when you rewatch a game and alot of the tension is removed. You see things quite a bit differently. I think you end up seeing things the way fans of other teams see them.

Anyway....many things stood out.

1) The play of Alex Smith
2) The playcalling of Mike Johnson
3) The Play of Michael Crabtree
4) The problems on D.

1) Alex: This is well covered territory and I know I'm not breaking any ground here, but I watched him very closely when I watched the game again. I know this won't be popular, but he actually played pretty damn well even before the argument with Singletary.

I was on the verge of calling for the Yorks to blow the team up and waive goodbye to Alex, but now I'm not so sure.

He made 2 mistakes. One was the INT on the deep pass to Ginn. Ya, it wasn't a great pass, but those things are low % throws so I can't blame him for taking the shot we have been wanting him to take all season. It would also help if Ginn made more of an effort on the ball, but it was still not a great throw and was Alex's fault. The theres the fumble. No excuse. Horrible. He'd be the first to tell you that. That simply can't happen. Period. The final INT of the game tho was really Anthony Davis fault. If you watch, Alex makes the decision to throw the ball BEFORE the DE breaks free of Davis. Alex didn't have a chance.

Other than that tho....he looked GOOD. I mean REALLY good. If you don't believe me, watch the game again. The drives that stalled did so because of turnovers. The Niners punted only ONCE until there were 5 minutes left in the THIRD quarter. Alex was hitting passes on third down. He was hitting passes for 15 and 20 yards, so they weren't just checkdowns. He was hitting Crabtree, Ginn, Davis, Morgan, Gore....he was getting EVERYONE involved. He hit Ginn for almost 20 yards on a 3rd and ONE. He hit Davis for about 25 yards on 3rd and 15.

After the confrontation with Sing, he was even better.

Smith is everyones favorite scapegoat. To be fair he has at times made it easy to scapegoat him. Sunday tho....he played pretty damn well. If you don't believe me, watch the game again.



2) Johnson: I was reading yesterday that there were peeps here who were critical of MJs playcalling. WATCH THE GAME AGAIN. He was AGGRESSIVE. The Niners punted ONCE until 5 min left in the 3rd quarter and only punted 3 times in the entire game. One of those punts came after three consecutive incomplete passes. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the turnovers happened on a drive in which the 49ers had gotten a first down. They were moving the ball. The second Gore fumble was after back to back playes of 25 yards (pass to Davis) and 17 yards (run by Gore).

After watching this game again, I am not concerned at all about the playcalling.


3) Crabtree: Crabtree started to look like the guy who played at Texas Tech. The attribute of his game that has been missing so far is his run-after-catch ability. He showed it on some nifty plays down the sideline. He also ran a great route and made a great catch on his TD. What strikes me the most tho are the length of his arms. LOL. Serously...he looks like a freak. Watch him when he puts his arms up after scoring the TD...I swear to got he could fly with those things...lol.


4) The D: This is the one that concerns me. They to often find themselves out of position and have a reciever running through the secondary with nobody within 5-10 yards of them. Kolb looked good, but when a guy is that open, its pretty hard to miss them. The run D has also been showing some cracks of late. Some have said that WIllis may be hurt, but I don't think thats it. I think he's getting covered up by lionemen more than in the past. He hasn't been able to run free. I dunno if thats something offenses are doing or if its the D not protecting him. I just hope they fix it.

I'm also concerned about Mays. Its not that he played poorly. He just seems a step slow right now (although he caused the fumble that the Eagles recovered). Its not about his potential...I'm just not sure he was ready to play. We'll see and I hope he proves me wrong.

I also re-watched the game and, like you, I found that that it looks a lot different with the emotion removed.

1) Alex. I saw what I've seen for the last year: He's capable of playing really good ball... I mean #1 draft pick good. The problem is that, like Steve DeBerg, he's just good enough to get you beat and he always finds a way to make the critical mistake. His turnovers were back-breakers in this game. Until he shows me he can play at a high level and NOT make the big mistake - not just for a whole game but for 2 or 3 games in a row - I'm convinced that he is not the answer. I'd be happy with him as our starter next year IF we draft a QB in the 1st round to replace him. Smith would be serviceable as the interim QB.

3) Crabtree. He had a really outstanding game and showed why he deserved to be the top WR in the draft. The light really seemed to come on after a tepid start in the first 4 weeks of the season. Like Steve Young and so many others have said, this Offense has a ton of talent that just needs to be utilized.

4) The defense. They look vulnerable, bordering on bad. Football Outsiders wrote an article before the season started saying that the 49ers would finish last in the division. Natuarally, it was widely ridiculed and despised on this board, but some of their insights are looking fairly prescient now. One of the things they pointed out was that the 9er Defense had an inordinately high number of forced fumbles in 2009. No matter how much defenses practice them, forced fumbles are largely random events. The 9er Defense was due for a regression to the mean in 2010 and that's exactly what's happened. Without the drive killing turnovers that they were getting last year, the D's weaknesses are being exposed.

Bottom line: This team has played good games against the Saints, the Falcons, and the Eagles... but never good enough. They have talent; they show flashes; but they always find a way to lose.