Now that I have rewatched the game...

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by cwilson830:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

2) Johnson: I was reading yesterday that there were peeps here who were critical of MJs playcalling. WATCH THE GAME AGAIN. He was AGGRESSIVE. The Niners punted ONCE until 5 min left in the 3rd quarter and only punted 3 times in the entire game. One of those punts came after three consecutive incomplete passes. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the turnovers happened on a drive in which the 49ers had gotten a first down. They were moving the ball. The second Gore fumble was after back to back playes of 25 yards (pass to Davis) and 17 yards (run by Gore).

After watching this game again, I am not concerned at all about the playcalling.

I agree with you on most of your points, but not on this. Johnson was only aggressive after running for scant yardage up the middle on pretty much every first down in the first half.

Try watching the game again and pause it right before the ball is snapped each play - then "guess" if the Niners will run or pass. I bet you'll guess correctly almost every time. Then take a look at Philly's D, and how they're filling the box. Yep, they they know it too.

It's been pretty well established (from week one) how to stop the Niners offense: load the box on early downs early in the game. Regardless of how poorly the Niners are running the ball, they will continue to try to pound it up the middle, until they are down multiple scores. This will result in lots of second and third and long's, where you can take advantage of the young O-line and a non-superstar QB.

Yes, attempting to establish the running game is important, but not when the other team knows it's coming. Then, it's just stubborn and counterproductive.

If you told me Jimmy was back in the coaching box on Sunday, I'd believe you.

TOTALLY disagree. The Niners ran the ball because the Eagles had shown a vulnerability to the run.

NEWS FLASH:

"Running the ball isn't a bad thing".

MJ tried to run the ball early on and has limited success.....and then called for a 20 yard pass route on 3rd and ONE. Thats NOT passive. He called a number of deep pass plays throughout the game (and Alex elected to hit an intermediate route instead).

Jimmy Raye would still have been running the ball with 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Michael Crabtree has had his best 2 weeks of the season back to back under MJ and this last one was his best of his career. BOTH Davis and Crabtree were over 100 yards with a TD.

If you don't see the difference, then you don't WANT to see the difference.

Ha, ok, maybe you have a point there

JR loved his third and one long pass plays too. It's about the only non-desperation time that he called them.

Running the ball effectively isn't a bad thing. Running the ball ineffectively over and over is a bad thing. Lots of teams have a "vulnerability" to the run until they play us. Then they key on the run, stop it effectively, and we're not smart enough to change our game plan.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

OK, if you say so. My job here isn't to convince the inconvincable. Feel free to hate the guy if it makes you feel better.

BTW, Looking at numbers without perspective is NOT objecive BTW. Did you know that Joe Flacco and Bruce Gradkowski have almost identical QB Ratings? I guess they are the same OBJECTIVELY, right?

Moving on...

Marvin, I don't see any mention of Smith not throwing to the correct receivers, meaning he either didn't see the open receiver or made the incorrect read.

Unless we have game film, we really can't properly assess the QB which is why we can only go by the analyst who is watching the game live and Collinsworth did a great job with the production replaying actually open looks Alex had deep that he should have thrown. Even that fumble TD should have been thrown to Vernon.

Honestly, Chris Collinsworth and that team did a great job of truly analyzing what wasn't happening with some great use of "coach's film" type of footage. You don't normally see this with other broadcasters/analysts. It almost seems as though he was trying to answer the question of what's wrong with the 49ers. I can understand why with him being a former WR who was probably "always" wide open.

Also, even Shaun Hill and JTO look good when they aren't fumbling the ball or throwing INTs. Almost every QB does. JTO's problem and less with Hill is exactly what Alex Smith is doing, which is fumbling or throwing a pick twice a game. You keep doing that and you go from average QB to terrible/benched QB.

[ Edited by Joecool on Oct 12, 2010 at 10:53:34 ]

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
It's funny to me that people think there are glaring problems on D when the offense has turned the ball over 15 f**king times. The problems on D are a result of the offenses inability to move the ball consistently and the offenses propensity to turn the ball over.

That explains why Kolb and an RB with broken ribs carved 'em up on Sunday?

The defense gave up 20 pts. 7 of which came on a drive that started from midfield. They were consistently put in bad spots.

The defense got a 4th down stop after another offensive turnover.

The defense is put under such strict scrutiny bc we're having to rely on them so much because of the offenses ineptitude.

The defense is getting enough stops to give the offense a chance.

15 turnovers. If you can't realize that the turnovers by THE OFFENSE are the reason we're losing, you don't understand football and there's nothing left to discuss.

The offense hasn't exactly given them any favors, but they hardly deserve a pass.

The defense cannot make a stop when it matters most at the end of the game. Last year was no different. The only reason why they were able to give Alex a chance to tie or win the game was because McCoy slid down too early when he had an easy 1st down after he juked the s**t out of a couple of our defenders.

Kevin Kolb, the Eagles second option at QB, had a career day against us. They were playing with an offensive line that was half second stringers including losing their stud LT, DeSean Jackson missed a wide portion of the game, McCoy had cracked ribs and I think they were missing some defensive starters for wide portions of the game as well.

They can't rush the passer and are horrible in coverage and let's not forget the screen passes.

The defense isn't as bad as the offense sure, but the defense isn't exactly doing all that much to help us win either. Our D is mediocre.

Player - Arm Length - Height

Michael Crabtree - 34.25 - 6'1
Calvin Johnson - 33.375 - 6'5
Braylon Edwards - 33.25 - 6'3
Vincent Jackson - 32 - 6'5
Marques Colston - 33.375 - 6'4
Roy Williams - 33.875 - 6'2
Dwayne Bowe - 33.625 - 6'2
Roddy White - 31.625 - 6'0
Greg Jennings - 30 - 5'11

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

Lol. I love how you twist the statistics to fit your argument. The first interception ended up with the Eagles having to start a drive on their 3 yard line. Hardly all that costly. The second interception was at the end of the game when A Davis completely whiffed on a block and he was hit as he threw. Give Alex more than 1.5 seconds on that play and that ball is probably not picked off.

The fumble obviously was horrible.

Gore, as good of a player as he is had two extremely costly turnovers. Both occurred when we were driving down the field. Alex Smith was not the reason we lost this game.

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
It's funny to me that people think there are glaring problems on D when the offense has turned the ball over 15 f**king times. The problems on D are a result of the offenses inability to move the ball consistently and the offenses propensity to turn the ball over.

That explains why Kolb and an RB with broken ribs carved 'em up on Sunday?

The defense gave up 20 pts. 7 of which came on a drive that started from midfield. They were consistently put in bad spots.

The defense got a 4th down stop after another offensive turnover.

The defense is put under such strict scrutiny bc we're having to rely on them so much because of the offenses ineptitude.

The defense is getting enough stops to give the offense a chance.

15 turnovers. If you can't realize that the turnovers by THE OFFENSE are the reason we're losing, you don't understand football and there's nothing left to discuss.

BS... The saints were pinned back on their side of the field.. Yet your "great " defense let them march down the field to kick a fg. Against the falcons the niners had them inside the 10 yrd line and they marched down the field to kick a fg...are u really that blind?. This defense is garbage...greg manuskey is garbage. Great defenses dont let this happen. What else ya got?

Originally posted by dmax:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
It's funny to me that people think there are glaring problems on D when the offense has turned the ball over 15 f**king times. The problems on D are a result of the offenses inability to move the ball consistently and the offenses propensity to turn the ball over.

That explains why Kolb and an RB with broken ribs carved 'em up on Sunday?

The defense gave up 20 pts. 7 of which came on a drive that started from midfield. They were consistently put in bad spots.

The defense got a 4th down stop after another offensive turnover.

The defense is put under such strict scrutiny bc we're having to rely on them so much because of the offenses ineptitude.

The defense is getting enough stops to give the offense a chance.

15 turnovers. If you can't realize that the turnovers by THE OFFENSE are the reason we're losing, you don't understand football and there's nothing left to discuss.

BS... The saints were pinned back on their side of the field.. Yet your "great " defense let them march down the field to kick a fg. Against the falcons the niners had them inside the 10 yrd line and they marched down the field to kick a fg...are u really that blind?. This defense is garbage...greg manuskey is garbage. Great defenses dont let this happen. What else ya got?

Yea against the world f**kin champion Saints QB'd by Drew Brees. Think for a second, genius. Did you forget how many TOs the offense had in that game as well?

Against the Falcons, the game in which we gave up 16 pts?

Like I said, the TOs by the offense put the defense under more scrutiny than normal. But that's a sentence that's too complicated for you to try understand, so don't try. You might get a headache.

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

Lol. I love how you twist the statistics to fit your argument. The first interception ended up with the Eagles having to start a drive on their 3 yard line. Hardly all that costly. The second interception was at the end of the game when A Davis completely whiffed on a block and he was hit as he threw. Give Alex more than 1.5 seconds on that play and that ball is probably not picked off.

The fumble obviously was horrible.

Gore, as good of a player as he is had two extremely costly turnovers. Both occurred when we were driving down the field. Alex Smith was not the reason we lost this game.

But missing open looks doesn't matter? We had a major issue with us not stretching the defense. How can we if the QB isn't finding the right guys?

He is lacking some of the most important qualities a QB needs. He proved to be Mr. Checkdown and not Mr. I am only running the offense as it's called.

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

Lol. I love how you twist the statistics to fit your argument. The first interception ended up with the Eagles having to start a drive on their 3 yard line. Hardly all that costly. The second interception was at the end of the game when A Davis completely whiffed on a block and he was hit as he threw. Give Alex more than 1.5 seconds on that play and that ball is probably not picked off.

The fumble obviously was horrible.

Gore, as good of a player as he is had two extremely costly turnovers. Both occurred when we were driving down the field. Alex Smith was not the reason we lost this game.

If I remember right the 1st Int was on 2nd down and the team was around mid field. So I would say that was very costly when you still have 3rd down to try and get a 1st down and points on the board. His last pick looked to me like he just thew up in the air. He did get killed but he let the ball go before he got hit. I have been a huge Alex supporter but I he just doesn't have it. He makes mistakes every week that hurt the team.

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

Lol. I love how you twist the statistics to fit your argument. The first interception ended up with the Eagles having to start a drive on their 3 yard line. Hardly all that costly. The second interception was at the end of the game when A Davis completely whiffed on a block and he was hit as he threw. Give Alex more than 1.5 seconds on that play and that ball is probably not picked off.

The fumble obviously was horrible.

Gore, as good of a player as he is had two extremely costly turnovers. Both occurred when we were driving down the field. Alex Smith was not the reason we lost this game.

Smith wasn't the sole reason. He was equally culpable with Gore. The offense has been more responsible for our losses this season than the D.

I'm expecting a change now, though. I have a feeling Smith is going to be a lot better QB from here on out. As much as I hate on the guy, I feel like Sunday was a turning point. Let's hope it was...

interesting points. i haven't rewatched the game, but now that i've had time to think about it--and the emotions of the loss have subsided--its hard to say that, offensively, we played that poorly, aside from the turnovers. Unfortunately, turnovers are one of the biggest determining factors in winning football games. However, the only TO that Alex can really be blamed for in this game was the fumble--it was a backbreaker. I'm encouraged by his resiliency to come out and get us back into the game, and I'm excited by his apparent resolve to salvage both his career and this season..But we'll see. We've got to win games in bunches now, and until we do, we're still a bad team.

as to the defense...They have been really underwhelming this year. Not really sure what the problem there is, but I have a feeling that if we start scoring early and often, the D will play light years better.

It starts with Alex. We all knew this was the make-or-break year for him, the final chance to honestly evaluate him, and that hasn't changed. The whole team is depending on him now--not to manage the game but to go out and win it.

Originally posted by sachie23:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The Smith apologists blow my mind....

So what you guys are saying is that the best game of his career was a loss in which he had 3 turnovers.

I mean, I guess I have to agree but that fact speaks volumes to his ineptitude as a QB in this league.

I'm tired of this and I'm not going to let him go free of blame for another game/week/season.

He's garbage pure and simple. Good QB's know how to win games and eliminate turnovers, no matter what the circumstances. He can't do either. Let's also remember that he's got an abundance of talent around.

Everyone can look good sometimes. His bright spots are far too infrequent, too inconsistent and never come through when the game's on the line.

...and the Smith haters drive me nuts. No matter what the guy does, you would hate him. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the world, I'm just saying that he played well. If you were OBJECTIVE, then you would see that.

Objective is seeing that he had 3 costly turnovers and didn't win the game. That doesn't constitute "playing well" in my book and I don't think it does in anyone else's as well.

Lol. I love how you twist the statistics to fit your argument. The first interception ended up with the Eagles having to start a drive on their 3 yard line. Hardly all that costly. The second interception was at the end of the game when A Davis completely whiffed on a block and he was hit as he threw. Give Alex more than 1.5 seconds on that play and that ball is probably not picked off.

The fumble obviously was horrible.

Gore, as good of a player as he is had two extremely costly turnovers. Both occurred when we were driving down the field. Alex Smith was not the reason we lost this game.

If I remember right the 1st Int was on 2nd down and the team was around mid field. So I would say that was very costly when you still have 3rd down to try and get a 1st down and points on the board. His last pick looked to me like he just thew up in the air. He did get killed but he let the ball go before he got hit. I have been a huge Alex supporter but I he just doesn't have it. He makes mistakes every week that hurt the team.

I'm pretty sure I saw Smith's arm get hit mid throw, then the DL followed through with the hit. But, he got to Smith's arm first, causing the very early release point on the ball, causing it to sail high and off target.

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Ya know, its amazing what can happen when you rewatch a game and alot of the tension is removed. You see things quite a bit differently. I think you end up seeing things the way fans of other teams see them.

Anyway....many things stood out.

1) The play of Alex Smith
2) The playcalling of Mike Johnson
3) The Play of Michael Crabtree
4) The problems on D.

1) Alex: This is well covered territory and I know I'm not breaking any ground here, but I watched him very closely when I watched the game again. I know this won't be popular, but he actually played pretty damn well even before the argument with Singletary.

I was on the verge of calling for the Yorks to blow the team up and waive goodbye to Alex, but now I'm not so sure.

He made 2 mistakes. One was the INT on the deep pass to Ginn. Ya, it wasn't a great pass, but those things are low % throws so I can't blame him for taking the shot we have been wanting him to take all season. It would also help if Ginn made more of an effort on the ball, but it was still not a great throw and was Alex's fault. The theres the fumble. No excuse. Horrible. He'd be the first to tell you that. That simply can't happen. Period. The final INT of the game tho was really Anthony Davis fault. If you watch, Alex makes the decision to throw the ball BEFORE the DE breaks free of Davis. Alex didn't have a chance.

Other than that tho....he looked GOOD. I mean REALLY good. If you don't believe me, watch the game again. The drives that stalled did so because of turnovers. The Niners punted only ONCE until there were 5 minutes left in the THIRD quarter. Alex was hitting passes on third down. He was hitting passes for 15 and 20 yards, so they weren't just checkdowns. He was hitting Crabtree, Ginn, Davis, Morgan, Gore....he was getting EVERYONE involved. He hit Ginn for almost 20 yards on a 3rd and ONE. He hit Davis for about 25 yards on 3rd and 15.

After the confrontation with Sing, he was even better.

Smith is everyones favorite scapegoat. To be fair he has at times made it easy to scapegoat him. Sunday tho....he played pretty damn well. If you don't believe me, watch the game again.



2) Johnson: I was reading yesterday that there were peeps here who were critical of MJs playcalling. WATCH THE GAME AGAIN. He was AGGRESSIVE. The Niners punted ONCE until 5 min left in the 3rd quarter and only punted 3 times in the entire game. One of those punts came after three consecutive incomplete passes. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the turnovers happened on a drive in which the 49ers had gotten a first down. They were moving the ball. The second Gore fumble was after back to back playes of 25 yards (pass to Davis) and 17 yards (run by Gore).

After watching this game again, I am not concerned at all about the playcalling.


3) Crabtree: Crabtree started to look like the guy who played at Texas Tech. The attribute of his game that has been missing so far is his run-after-catch ability. He showed it on some nifty plays down the sideline. He also ran a great route and made a great catch on his TD. What strikes me the most tho are the length of his arms. LOL. Serously...he looks like a freak. Watch him when he puts his arms up after scoring the TD...I swear to got he could fly with those things...lol.


4) The D: This is the one that concerns me. They to often find themselves out of position and have a reciever running through the secondary with nobody within 5-10 yards of them. Kolb looked good, but when a guy is that open, its pretty hard to miss them. The run D has also been showing some cracks of late. Some have said that WIllis may be hurt, but I don't think thats it. I think he's getting covered up by lionemen more than in the past. He hasn't been able to run free. I dunno if thats something offenses are doing or if its the D not protecting him. I just hope they fix it.

I'm also concerned about Mays. Its not that he played poorly. He just seems a step slow right now (although he caused the fumble that the Eagles recovered). Its not about his potential...I'm just not sure he was ready to play. We'll see and I hope he proves me wrong.

You're kidding about Mays right? The kid is doing an on the job training. you need to review the game again. There are too many others you need to evaluate.

Originally posted by HessianDud:
interesting points. i haven't rewatched the game, but now that i've had time to think about it--and the emotions of the loss have subsided--its hard to say that, offensively, we played that poorly, aside from the turnovers. Unfortunately, turnovers are one of the biggest determining factors in winning football games. However, the only TO that Alex can really be blamed for in this game was the fumble--it was a backbreaker. I'm encouraged by his resiliency to come out and get us back into the game, and I'm excited by his apparent resolve to salvage both his career and this season..But we'll see. We've got to win games in bunches now, and until we do, we're still a bad team.

as to the defense...They have been really underwhelming this year. Not really sure what the problem there is, but I have a feeling that if we start scoring early and often, the D will play light years better.

It starts with Alex. We all knew this was the make-or-break year for him, the final chance to honestly evaluate him, and that hasn't changed. The whole team is depending on him now--not to manage the game but to go out and win it.

Thank you. Someone who fukking gets it. If the offense can score more than 10 pts through 3.5 quarters, the D wouldn't be under such pressure all game. Of course the simpletons don't understand this and will continually blame our D (in a veiled attempt to defend Alex) for everything despite the 15 TOs by our offense.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by boast:
Alex is a good quarterback and great in the RZ. those who can't see that are blinded by their hatred.

Alex Smith in the Red Zone this season...

17 Att, 21 Comp, 100 Yards, 81.0 Comp %, 6 TDs, 0 INTs, 126.1 QB Rating

Alex Smith in Games This Season: 0-5