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Alex Smith Observation.

  • Antix
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,778
Originally posted by ninerlifer:
small hands?

/thread
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
There are a lot of tipped passes around the league. Drew Brees gets a lot tipped because he is short.

Smith has thrown 16 ints since 09. Of those 16, I'd say about 8-10 are off of tips.

That's pretty weird to say the least. It seems to happen to Smith more than anyone else.

Quite frankly a lot of the arguments in here are stupid. The tipped at the line of scrimmage ones are the exception if you look at his career. He has had a lot of tipped passes by WR's and TE's because our guys have not had great hands. VD improved his hands and now we have Crabtree. But in the past he had scrub WR's who bounced the ball straight up into the air for the pick. And we still have the problem somewhat.

But you guys are reading too much into the past when we had terrible WR's. It's why we drafted Crab #10 overall. And why Davis works after practice for an hour on the jugs machines. Because our guys used to be non sure handed. It has improved somewhat but it's still not perfect on this team.

Yeah..okay...I get it. But we don't have scrubs anymore. Yet Smiths passes get tipped at an alarming frequency. I don't know what it is, I just hope they adjust to minimize or eliminate this problem.
Originally posted by ninerbrand:
Originally posted by Micky6:
Originally posted by ninerbrand:
I am not sure who else has noticed this, but it seems to me that Alex Smith's interception 90% of the time come off of tipped balls. Especially, this year. Both passes in Mondays game that were picked were off tips. One of his two from Seattle. I have noticed this since he came into the league in '05. The ball just kind of has a knack for finding a defender.

Why do you think he gets so many tipped balls?
What do you guys think can fix this?


My Suggestion: Pump fake. Throw not only the D-Line but the secondaries to delay their reactions.


ninerbrand(on)



Nothing to fix. If what your saying is that Smith only throws pics 10 % when the ball is tipped... he's doing fine. Occassionally those tips come from receivers hands (which may or may not be Smiths fault - accuracy?) or it may get tipped at the line, which is not really his fault.

The two pix against the Saints did not cost the 9ers the game. The bad snap, miffed punt and fumble by Walker were more devasting than the pix (the punt was the worst... Get Adams off the PR duties). You reverse any of those plays and the 9ers are tied for first in the West.

My point is, Alex Smith gets intercepted off of tipped passes more regularly than the average QB. Majority of his interceptions in general, I would say come off tipped passes, either at the line or by a LB/DB/WR.

I don't know where you get the 10% figure. lol.

Ask yourself this question, do you watch Alex Smith more than the average QB? If so than you probably see more of his balls get tipped than others. It happens to every qb
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
There are a lot of tipped passes around the league. Drew Brees gets a lot tipped because he is short.

Smith has thrown 16 ints since 09. Of those 16, I'd say about 8-10 are off of tips.

That's pretty weird to say the least. It seems to happen to Smith more than anyone else.

Quite frankly a lot of the arguments in here are stupid. The tipped at the line of scrimmage ones are the exception if you look at his career. He has had a lot of tipped passes by WR's and TE's because our guys have not had great hands. VD improved his hands and now we have Crabtree. But in the past he had scrub WR's who bounced the ball straight up into the air for the pick. And we still have the problem somewhat.

But you guys are reading too much into the past when we had terrible WR's. It's why we drafted Crab #10 overall. And why Davis works after practice for an hour on the jugs machines. Because our guys used to be non sure handed. It has improved somewhat but it's still not perfect on this team.

Yeah..okay...I get it. But we don't have scrubs anymore. Yet Smiths passes get tipped at an alarming frequency. I don't know what it is, I just hope they adjust to minimize or eliminate this problem.

One was just an extraordinary tip at the line of scrimmage. Even the announcers said there was nothing he could do. And one was an off pass. If Alex has 1 "off pass" all night heck we can win a lot of games. I'd take that performence every game.
Our O line proved they can pass protect against the elite during this past Monday Night Football game. I don't believe I have ever seen Alex Smith pump fake his entire NFL career. I do believe if he were to do so, he would not only create more passing lanes but also help his recievers get open alot faster. This is a team effort, they all have to help each other for the sake of the entire team.
Originally posted by norcal49er864:
Originally posted by Smokie:
Originally posted by TDilvr:
He does throw with a lot of velocity on short to medium throws which causes the ball to bounce harder off of a helmet, hand, shoulder pad etc. giving it more air time for a defender to get to the ball.

I think he's getting better at not putting so much mustard on his shorter throws but it kinda goes in line with the fact that when he 1st came into the league at age 20 he was trying too hard to impress.

Too bad he wasn't afforded clipboard duty for a couple of years behind a solid QB. Oh well. It is what it is and thankfully it seems that he's finally getting it.

I think it has to do with the fact that he is a doofus who does not know how to throw a touch pass after six years in the NFL. Even college QBs like Andrew Luck know how to take something off the ball and still be accurate. Smith is not a playmaker, let's face it. He allows opponents to make plays.

Inaccurate passes to wide open receivers are way more common than with top QBs. Don't point to the occasional inaccurate passes from the top QBs as evidence-- that is a silly argument. What about the incredible throws that Alex simply does not make? Back shoulder passes, looking off defenders, etc. Never see that with Alex. He plays everyone straight up, which is fine in HS and college. Not so good in the NFL.

At any rate, Alex's telegraphing of passes allows defenders to tip balls at the line, and allows defensive backs time to focus in on one receiver. That and the inaccurate balls off his own players' fingertips will get you a lot of "unlucky" picks. This is not bad luck, this is skill on Smith's part. If getting balls tipped and intercepted was a good thing, he would be an All-Pro.

dude.

Who the f*ck are you?

Second of all, Smith has made some incredible throws during his career. How about that TD pass to Crabtree against Greenbay last year where he threw a nice arching pass that crabs was able to outjump GB's pro-bowl CB for?

That's the first example that comes to mind and it's exactly the type of throw you claim he has never made. Secondly, how do you know he's telegraphing passes? Are you watching game tape that shows the passing lanes and the whole field? Didn't think so. Dude it's clear your a blind alex hater because your argument does not flow from logic, but rather emotion.

Second of all, back shoulder throws require tremendously skilled receivers - something the 9ers have not had until recently (VD). It's funny how you didn't seem to notice how Alex threw some back shoulder throws to Vernon Davis last year. More proof that you don't know what you are talking about.

Every year when the season starts ninertalk gets an influx of new posters and ALL of them post this same kind of crap. It's all reactionary and people spouting off their opinions like they are fact. Get in line, you are not special. You are just another ninertalk noob that doesn't know anything about football.

edit: I see that you joined 6 days ago and already have 107 posts? Are you kidding me? you post almost 15 times a day? You need to talk about football less, and watch football more before you come back here.


OK tough guy. Being new on here means nothing, is this grade school? Feel free to disagree with me, that is what boards are for, genius. Or would you be happier if everyone thought Smith is ready to break out and be a great QB? You don't need to break down tape to see that he tracks his receiver most of the time-- I guess you do break down tape? Thanks Mr. Johnson.
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
two words. Ball placement.

this.

As QB you have ultimate control over the football when it is in your hands. Where you place the ball is up to you. No excuses for bad bounces. It's like the phrase you make your own luck. Great QBs consistently place the ball in the optimal spot for their receiver. Certainly everyone catches a bad bounce at some point. But the more accurate the QB the less it happens and it seems like it happens to Alex a lot.
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Pump fakes opnly work when you're standing alone in the pocket.

If he would have Pump Faked on the 1st Interception The DB would have creamed him on that play. Might have caused a turnover anyway and just may have injured him. On top of that the Line that gave up ZERO sacks would have allowed one.

Sadly there is no fix for tipped passes other than the Receiver not tipping the ball up.

I was taught LONG AGO that if you can only get one hand on it to knock it down to keep the Opposing D from getting it. To me this is what NEEDS to be done but Sullivan is too much of a retard to preach this to his unit. That and he fails miserably to preach technique.

Frank should have knocked it down so this one is not Sullivan's fault, but this should be drilled on in practice. Nobody can tell me that they catch every pass thrown in Practice. So they should be drilling this every day of the season.

~Ceadder

But what about the magic rule?

If it can touch your fingertips you HAVE to catch it.
Originally posted by norcal49er864:
Originally posted by Smokie:
Originally posted by TDilvr:
He does throw with a lot of velocity on short to medium throws which causes the ball to bounce harder off of a helmet, hand, shoulder pad etc. giving it more air time for a defender to get to the ball.

I think he's getting better at not putting so much mustard on his shorter throws but it kinda goes in line with the fact that when he 1st came into the league at age 20 he was trying too hard to impress.

Too bad he wasn't afforded clipboard duty for a couple of years behind a solid QB. Oh well. It is what it is and thankfully it seems that he's finally getting it.

I think it has to do with the fact that he is a doofus who does not know how to throw a touch pass after six years in the NFL. Even college QBs like Andrew Luck know how to take something off the ball and still be accurate. Smith is not a playmaker, let's face it. He allows opponents to make plays.

Inaccurate passes to wide open receivers are way more common than with top QBs. Don't point to the occasional inaccurate passes from the top QBs as evidence-- that is a silly argument. What about the incredible throws that Alex simply does not make? Back shoulder passes, looking off defenders, etc. Never see that with Alex. He plays everyone straight up, which is fine in HS and college. Not so good in the NFL.

At any rate, Alex's telegraphing of passes allows defenders to tip balls at the line, and allows defensive backs time to focus in on one receiver. That and the inaccurate balls off his own players' fingertips will get you a lot of "unlucky" picks. This is not bad luck, this is skill on Smith's part. If getting balls tipped and intercepted was a good thing, he would be an All-Pro.

dude.

Who the f*ck are you?

Second of all, Smith has made some incredible throws during his career. How about that TD pass to Crabtree against Greenbay last year where he threw a nice arching pass that crabs was able to outjump GB's pro-bowl CB for?

That's the first example that comes to mind and it's exactly the type of throw you claim he has never made. Secondly, how do you know he's telegraphing passes? Are you watching game tape that shows the passing lanes and the whole field? Didn't think so. Dude it's clear your a blind alex hater because your argument does not flow from logic, but rather emotion.

Second of all, back shoulder throws require tremendously skilled receivers - something the 9ers have not had until recently (VD). It's funny how you didn't seem to notice how Alex threw some back shoulder throws to Vernon Davis last year. More proof that you don't know what you are talking about.

Every year when the season starts ninertalk gets an influx of new posters and ALL of them post this same kind of crap. It's all reactionary and people spouting off their opinions like they are fact. Get in line, you are not special. You are just another ninertalk noob that doesn't know anything about football.

edit: I see that you joined 6 days ago and already have 107 posts? Are you kidding me? you post almost 15 times a day? You need to talk about football less, and watch football more before you come back here.

Sir, we know you joined the WZ back in 1967, and you have less than half a post a day, but that does not mean you're opinion is better than others.
and dont worry, by the time you post again, Alex will not be here
Originally posted by Smokie:
Originally posted by norcal49er864:
Originally posted by Smokie:
Originally posted by TDilvr:
He does throw with a lot of velocity on short to medium throws which causes the ball to bounce harder off of a helmet, hand, shoulder pad etc. giving it more air time for a defender to get to the ball.

I think he's getting better at not putting so much mustard on his shorter throws but it kinda goes in line with the fact that when he 1st came into the league at age 20 he was trying too hard to impress.

Too bad he wasn't afforded clipboard duty for a couple of years behind a solid QB. Oh well. It is what it is and thankfully it seems that he's finally getting it.

I think it has to do with the fact that he is a doofus who does not know how to throw a touch pass after six years in the NFL. Even college QBs like Andrew Luck know how to take something off the ball and still be accurate. Smith is not a playmaker, let's face it. He allows opponents to make plays.

Inaccurate passes to wide open receivers are way more common than with top QBs. Don't point to the occasional inaccurate passes from the top QBs as evidence-- that is a silly argument. What about the incredible throws that Alex simply does not make? Back shoulder passes, looking off defenders, etc. Never see that with Alex. He plays everyone straight up, which is fine in HS and college. Not so good in the NFL.

At any rate, Alex's telegraphing of passes allows defenders to tip balls at the line, and allows defensive backs time to focus in on one receiver. That and the inaccurate balls off his own players' fingertips will get you a lot of "unlucky" picks. This is not bad luck, this is skill on Smith's part. If getting balls tipped and intercepted was a good thing, he would be an All-Pro.

dude.

Who the f*ck are you?

Second of all, Smith has made some incredible throws during his career. How about that TD pass to Crabtree against Greenbay last year where he threw a nice arching pass that crabs was able to outjump GB's pro-bowl CB for?

That's the first example that comes to mind and it's exactly the type of throw you claim he has never made. Secondly, how do you know he's telegraphing passes? Are you watching game tape that shows the passing lanes and the whole field? Didn't think so. Dude it's clear your a blind alex hater because your argument does not flow from logic, but rather emotion.

Second of all, back shoulder throws require tremendously skilled receivers - something the 9ers have not had until recently (VD). It's funny how you didn't seem to notice how Alex threw some back shoulder throws to Vernon Davis last year. More proof that you don't know what you are talking about.

Every year when the season starts ninertalk gets an influx of new posters and ALL of them post this same kind of crap. It's all reactionary and people spouting off their opinions like they are fact. Get in line, you are not special. You are just another ninertalk noob that doesn't know anything about football.

edit: I see that you joined 6 days ago and already have 107 posts? Are you kidding me? you post almost 15 times a day? You need to talk about football less, and watch football more before you come back here.


OK tough guy. Being new on here means nothing, is this grade school? Feel free to disagree with me, that is what boards are for, genius. Or would you be happier if everyone thought Smith is ready to break out and be a great QB? You don't need to break down tape to see that he tracks his receiver most of the time-- I guess you do break down tape? Thanks Mr. Johnson.

Being new doesn't predispose you to being stupid, but if you've been here for a few years than you would understand how every year it's the same - tons of new posters join just to throw in their 2 cents, and most of the time it's all really reactionary "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING" and then you never hear from them again once the season wears on a little bit and they see that it isn't as bad - or good - as they thought it was.

I will disagree with you, gladly. And I don't care if you don't think Smith will succeed. That's your opinion. What I'm tired of is getting into this same debate with people who don't back up their opinions with facts and logic, but just their emotions and their preconceived notions. There are a lot of knowledgeable posters here that have been either watching football for a long time, or involved in the sport of football in some fashion, or always make sure to write well thought-out arguments for their posts and I take my cues from those guys.

Which brings me back to my main point. If you want to say "Alex Smith locks onto his receivers," then you need to bring specific examples to the table of Smith locking onto his receivers. You can't just say it and make it true. The more emotional you get in the defense of your opinion does not make you more right.

For the record, I know he locks onto his receivers, or at least he has in the past. I didn't notice it last game, or that much last season either and I think it's something he has improved on.

[ Edited by norcal49er864 on Sep 22, 2010 at 15:20:32 ]
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by norcal49er864:
Originally posted by Smokie:
Originally posted by TDilvr:
He does throw with a lot of velocity on short to medium throws which causes the ball to bounce harder off of a helmet, hand, shoulder pad etc. giving it more air time for a defender to get to the ball.

I think he's getting better at not putting so much mustard on his shorter throws but it kinda goes in line with the fact that when he 1st came into the league at age 20 he was trying too hard to impress.

Too bad he wasn't afforded clipboard duty for a couple of years behind a solid QB. Oh well. It is what it is and thankfully it seems that he's finally getting it.

I think it has to do with the fact that he is a doofus who does not know how to throw a touch pass after six years in the NFL. Even college QBs like Andrew Luck know how to take something off the ball and still be accurate. Smith is not a playmaker, let's face it. He allows opponents to make plays.

Inaccurate passes to wide open receivers are way more common than with top QBs. Don't point to the occasional inaccurate passes from the top QBs as evidence-- that is a silly argument. What about the incredible throws that Alex simply does not make? Back shoulder passes, looking off defenders, etc. Never see that with Alex. He plays everyone straight up, which is fine in HS and college. Not so good in the NFL.

At any rate, Alex's telegraphing of passes allows defenders to tip balls at the line, and allows defensive backs time to focus in on one receiver. That and the inaccurate balls off his own players' fingertips will get you a lot of "unlucky" picks. This is not bad luck, this is skill on Smith's part. If getting balls tipped and intercepted was a good thing, he would be an All-Pro.

dude.

Who the f*ck are you?

Second of all, Smith has made some incredible throws during his career. How about that TD pass to Crabtree against Greenbay last year where he threw a nice arching pass that crabs was able to outjump GB's pro-bowl CB for?

That's the first example that comes to mind and it's exactly the type of throw you claim he has never made. Secondly, how do you know he's telegraphing passes? Are you watching game tape that shows the passing lanes and the whole field? Didn't think so. Dude it's clear your a blind alex hater because your argument does not flow from logic, but rather emotion.

Second of all, back shoulder throws require tremendously skilled receivers - something the 9ers have not had until recently (VD). It's funny how you didn't seem to notice how Alex threw some back shoulder throws to Vernon Davis last year. More proof that you don't know what you are talking about.

Every year when the season starts ninertalk gets an influx of new posters and ALL of them post this same kind of crap. It's all reactionary and people spouting off their opinions like they are fact. Get in line, you are not special. You are just another ninertalk noob that doesn't know anything about football.

edit: I see that you joined 6 days ago and already have 107 posts? Are you kidding me? you post almost 15 times a day? You need to talk about football less, and watch football more before you come back here.

Sir, we know you joined the WZ back in 1967, and you have less than half a post a day, but that does not mean you're opinion is better than others.
and dont worry, by the time you post again, Alex will not be here

I post less because I like to listen and observe more, a habit that I see is sadly lacking in more places than just internet forums these days.
Originally posted by norcal49er864:
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by norcal49er864:
Originally posted by Smokie:
Originally posted by TDilvr:
He does throw with a lot of velocity on short to medium throws which causes the ball to bounce harder off of a helmet, hand, shoulder pad etc. giving it more air time for a defender to get to the ball.

I think he's getting better at not putting so much mustard on his shorter throws but it kinda goes in line with the fact that when he 1st came into the league at age 20 he was trying too hard to impress.

Too bad he wasn't afforded clipboard duty for a couple of years behind a solid QB. Oh well. It is what it is and thankfully it seems that he's finally getting it.

I think it has to do with the fact that he is a doofus who does not know how to throw a touch pass after six years in the NFL. Even college QBs like Andrew Luck know how to take something off the ball and still be accurate. Smith is not a playmaker, let's face it. He allows opponents to make plays.

Inaccurate passes to wide open receivers are way more common than with top QBs. Don't point to the occasional inaccurate passes from the top QBs as evidence-- that is a silly argument. What about the incredible throws that Alex simply does not make? Back shoulder passes, looking off defenders, etc. Never see that with Alex. He plays everyone straight up, which is fine in HS and college. Not so good in the NFL.

At any rate, Alex's telegraphing of passes allows defenders to tip balls at the line, and allows defensive backs time to focus in on one receiver. That and the inaccurate balls off his own players' fingertips will get you a lot of "unlucky" picks. This is not bad luck, this is skill on Smith's part. If getting balls tipped and intercepted was a good thing, he would be an All-Pro.

dude.

Who the f*ck are you?

Second of all, Smith has made some incredible throws during his career. How about that TD pass to Crabtree against Greenbay last year where he threw a nice arching pass that crabs was able to outjump GB's pro-bowl CB for?

That's the first example that comes to mind and it's exactly the type of throw you claim he has never made. Secondly, how do you know he's telegraphing passes? Are you watching game tape that shows the passing lanes and the whole field? Didn't think so. Dude it's clear your a blind alex hater because your argument does not flow from logic, but rather emotion.

Second of all, back shoulder throws require tremendously skilled receivers - something the 9ers have not had until recently (VD). It's funny how you didn't seem to notice how Alex threw some back shoulder throws to Vernon Davis last year. More proof that you don't know what you are talking about.

Every year when the season starts ninertalk gets an influx of new posters and ALL of them post this same kind of crap. It's all reactionary and people spouting off their opinions like they are fact. Get in line, you are not special. You are just another ninertalk noob that doesn't know anything about football.

edit: I see that you joined 6 days ago and already have 107 posts? Are you kidding me? you post almost 15 times a day? You need to talk about football less, and watch football more before you come back here.

Sir, we know you joined the WZ back in 1967, and you have less than half a post a day, but that does not mean you're opinion is better than others.
and dont worry, by the time you post again, Alex will not be here

I post less because I like to listen and observe more, a habit that I see is sadly lacking in more places than just internet forums these days.

Originally posted by Antix:
Originally posted by ninerlifer:
small hands?

/thread

Come on Guys. I think Alex's dad and Brother would disagree...


Originally posted by Smokie:

At any rate, Alex's telegraphing of passes allows defenders to tip balls at the line, and allows defensive backs time to focus in on one receiver. That and the inaccurate balls off his own players' fingertips will get you a lot of "unlucky" picks. This is not bad luck, this is skill on Smith's part. If getting balls tipped and intercepted was a good thing, he would be an All-Pro.

Yes, Alex looks down his receivers.
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by norcal49er864:
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by norcal49er864:
Originally posted by Smokie:
Originally posted by TDilvr:
He does throw with a lot of velocity on short to medium throws which causes the ball to bounce harder off of a helmet, hand, shoulder pad etc. giving it more air time for a defender to get to the ball.

I think he's getting better at not putting so much mustard on his shorter throws but it kinda goes in line with the fact that when he 1st came into the league at age 20 he was trying too hard to impress.

Too bad he wasn't afforded clipboard duty for a couple of years behind a solid QB. Oh well. It is what it is and thankfully it seems that he's finally getting it.

I think it has to do with the fact that he is a doofus who does not know how to throw a touch pass after six years in the NFL. Even college QBs like Andrew Luck know how to take something off the ball and still be accurate. Smith is not a playmaker, let's face it. He allows opponents to make plays.

Inaccurate passes to wide open receivers are way more common than with top QBs. Don't point to the occasional inaccurate passes from the top QBs as evidence-- that is a silly argument. What about the incredible throws that Alex simply does not make? Back shoulder passes, looking off defenders, etc. Never see that with Alex. He plays everyone straight up, which is fine in HS and college. Not so good in the NFL.

At any rate, Alex's telegraphing of passes allows defenders to tip balls at the line, and allows defensive backs time to focus in on one receiver. That and the inaccurate balls off his own players' fingertips will get you a lot of "unlucky" picks. This is not bad luck, this is skill on Smith's part. If getting balls tipped and intercepted was a good thing, he would be an All-Pro.

dude.

Who the f*ck are you?

Second of all, Smith has made some incredible throws during his career. How about that TD pass to Crabtree against Greenbay last year where he threw a nice arching pass that crabs was able to outjump GB's pro-bowl CB for?

That's the first example that comes to mind and it's exactly the type of throw you claim he has never made. Secondly, how do you know he's telegraphing passes? Are you watching game tape that shows the passing lanes and the whole field? Didn't think so. Dude it's clear your a blind alex hater because your argument does not flow from logic, but rather emotion.

Second of all, back shoulder throws require tremendously skilled receivers - something the 9ers have not had until recently (VD). It's funny how you didn't seem to notice how Alex threw some back shoulder throws to Vernon Davis last year. More proof that you don't know what you are talking about.

Every year when the season starts ninertalk gets an influx of new posters and ALL of them post this same kind of crap. It's all reactionary and people spouting off their opinions like they are fact. Get in line, you are not special. You are just another ninertalk noob that doesn't know anything about football.

edit: I see that you joined 6 days ago and already have 107 posts? Are you kidding me? you post almost 15 times a day? You need to talk about football less, and watch football more before you come back here.

Sir, we know you joined the WZ back in 1967, and you have less than half a post a day, but that does not mean you're opinion is better than others.
and dont worry, by the time you post again, Alex will not be here

I post less because I like to listen and observe more, a habit that I see is sadly lacking in more places than just internet forums these days.


Sweet, a bye bye sign. I totally see how that is relevant to this discussion. I applaud how you use it to make a point about Alex Smith's errant throws. Wow, what an original and insightful take. I'm humbled by the glory of your intellect.