Is Alex calling out VD and Crabs

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:

Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
I personally would just like him to start playing better instead acting like he's growing a pair.

+1

Freaking double standards. You guys complain about how he's not being a leader and then when he does you guys just say "oh he's not a good quarterback so that doesn't even mean anything."

Everyone on this board would like to see him play better (if they didn't I would question their fanhood). His play has been discussed ad nauseam. This thread has nothing to do with how he's played, it has to do with a specific quote. Why can't we just analyze the quote on it's own merits without bringing in something not related to the question at hand to deligitimize it?

Was he calling out Crabtree and VD or was he not? This is the question, not "Do you think Alex Smith is or ever will be a winning quarterback?"

In my opinion he was not calling out his players he was just expressing a concern and wishing they would be back soon. But if he was calling the players out I'm sure the players are aware of this and it's probably well deserved.

Unfortunately, you cannot be considered a team leader unless you're a key player or a respected veteran, both of which Smith isn't. People who criticize Smith for not being a team leader are essentially saying he hasn't shown enough on the field...those things go hand in hand. You only become a team leader (at his age) if you're battle tested. So when there's a question of whether or not Smith is calling out VD and Crabtree, you have to consider Smith's merits.

FWIW, I don't really think he's calling anyone out either. Those guys aren't taking TC off, they're legitimately hurt. I also agree with what Smith said...VD and Crabs can't talk about how good the team is and how many weapons we have...they have to actually go out and execute. Funny thing is, the brunt of that burden falls more on Smith than the other two...and I'm sure he knows that.

All this being said, nobody is gonna look at him like a true leader until, as Rex Ryan would put it, his nuts drop and he starts playing like a champ.

Consider if it was Frank Gore who made this comment...nobody would question the source because he's earned that right by being a Pro-Bowl RB for us.

I agree with your statements about leadership being won on the field and not just by words without backing it up on the football field. That's the way it should be. All this discussion is moot until Alex goes out and either shows he can be a competent and winning quarterback or he can't.

But I just feel that people have always criticized hm for his "sideline demeanor" and saying that he's not a "ra ra" quarterback and isn't terribly demonstrative and what not yet when he shows a little more personality people discredit that as well. Again, I agree with you that being a leader by being good is the best kind of leadership, but I don't think that philosophy is true for many 'zoners as I've observed from my years as an active member.

We all know that Smith has not exactly lived up to expectations on the football field because of whatever reasons you choose to believe (never ever had what it takes, ruined by Nolan, not enough supporting cast, Eric Heirman blah blah blah). But the fact that Smith has been more demonstrative and has been trying to take more ownership of the team is definitely a positive development and shouldn't be discredited. Not every confident person is successful but every successful person has confidence. I'm glad to see his showing more confidence. Now go out and win.

Great post.

-9fA

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:

Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
I personally would just like him to start playing better instead acting like he's growing a pair.

+1

Freaking double standards. You guys complain about how he's not being a leader and then when he does you guys just say "oh he's not a good quarterback so that doesn't even mean anything."

Everyone on this board would like to see him play better (if they didn't I would question their fanhood). His play has been discussed ad nauseam. This thread has nothing to do with how he's played, it has to do with a specific quote. Why can't we just analyze the quote on it's own merits without bringing in something not related to the question at hand to deligitimize it?

Was he calling out Crabtree and VD or was he not? This is the question, not "Do you think Alex Smith is or ever will be a winning quarterback?"

In my opinion he was not calling out his players he was just expressing a concern and wishing they would be back soon. But if he was calling the players out I'm sure the players are aware of this and it's probably well deserved.

Unfortunately, you cannot be considered a team leader unless you're a key player or a respected veteran, both of which Smith isn't. People who criticize Smith for not being a team leader are essentially saying he hasn't shown enough on the field...those things go hand in hand. You only become a team leader (at his age) if you're battle tested. So when there's a question of whether or not Smith is calling out VD and Crabtree, you have to consider Smith's merits.

FWIW, I don't really think he's calling anyone out either. Those guys aren't taking TC off, they're legitimately hurt. I also agree with what Smith said...VD and Crabs can't talk about how good the team is and how many weapons we have...they have to actually go out and execute. Funny thing is, the brunt of that burden falls more on Smith than the other two...and I'm sure he knows that.

All this being said, nobody is gonna look at him like a true leader until, as Rex Ryan would put it, his nuts drop and he starts playing like a champ.

Consider if it was Frank Gore who made this comment...nobody would question the source because he's earned that right by being a Pro-Bowl RB for us.

I agree with your statements about leadership being won on the field and not just by words without backing it up on the football field. That's the way it should be. All this discussion is moot until Alex goes out and either shows he can be a competent and winning quarterback or he can't.

But I just feel that people have always criticized hm for his "sideline demeanor" and saying that he's not a "ra ra" quarterback and isn't terribly demonstrative and what not yet when he shows a little more personality people discredit that as well. Again, I agree with you that being a leader by being good is the best kind of leadership, but I don't think that philosophy is true for many 'zoners as I've observed from my years as an active member.

We all know that Smith has not exactly lived up to expectations on the football field because of whatever reasons you choose to believe (never ever had what it takes, ruined by Nolan, not enough supporting cast, Eric Heirman blah blah blah). But the fact that Smith has been more demonstrative and has been trying to take more ownership of the team is definitely a positive development and shouldn't be discredited. Not every confident person is successful but every successful person has confidence. I'm glad to see his showing more confidence. Now go out and win.

Great post.

-9fA

Awesome post.

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Smith calling out VD and Crabs.

That's like Rosie O'Donnell calling out Giselle Bundchen at a fashion show.

Now, now Shaj. Let's not upset the natives.

says the man who said Alex didn't have one good game all last season.

Look, we get it you guys despise, loathe, deplore Alex Smith.

But here is the little fact that none of you "realist" seem to understand. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE GIVES A s**t!

For the love of all that is good, give it a rest already, you guys are worse than the IRS. You never take a day off, not even on holidays with your anti-Smith campaign. And for what? Is it for some greater good that you must perpetually rain on others parades? Do you think your point hasn't been made loud and clear at this point?

There is absolutely nothing new that can be said at this point, so lets have a cease fire shall we? When the games matter again we will all have our answer(s). And all this bluster will be rendered meaningless, as if it weren't already. Until then, please, relax a little, its a long off season and this s**t just makes it even longer.

for the first few years after Smith got drafted, esp in year 1, skeptics like me, ZRF80, and Billl were treated like gays at an Islamic press conference in Iran. Now that we are unfortunately and regrettably villified, we're being told to keep our traps shut again, while people get excited that Smith is doing something in his 5th year that Sanchez probably did in pre-season last year with his WR's, before his first NFL snap?

Yes, until something actually happens. All the back and forth between the two sides on what has happened in the past is irrelevant. The few who try and forewarn others about what is going to happen? Foolish. They do not know what is going to happen this season, same as me or you. Its much ado about nothing, because what happens when you are proven wrong? You and the like sheepishly admit how you were wrong in the gameday thread with a "Go Niners " at the, and then all is forgiven?

You are polluting the board, there is nothing anyone can do to change your mind, not even Alex Smith himself. Anything positive he accomplished last year is quickly dismissed, with a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude, and a heavy dose of revisionist history (see: b, billbird). All the positive steps this offseason brushed off with a simple "Don't tell me. Show me" (he IS showing you!), or a "Yeah, he does it in (insert OTAs/Mini/Training Camp)." Of course you harp on every negative thing he does, then don't understand why people are irritated at the double standard.

When the regular season starts, if, if, Alex struggles you will be completely justified to shout from the rooftops your disappointment, with as much anger and vitriol as you can muster. But, until then considering the fact that it is proven there is nothing Alex can do to change your mind, please, do us all a favor and step down from the soapbox.

I've been in corporate America for 16 years now. I've noticed one singular, consistent attribute of successful executives in business: they have zero tolerance for excuses, and accept nothing less than winning. This is the ONLY attribute they have in common, and I've worked with scores of them. It's the only thing I know in business.

I share this because the NFL is a business, and you'd be hard pressed to convince me that Lombardi, Eddie D, Walsh, and other greats had the complacency that this board exhibits with piss poor results. They had this same intolerance for ineptitude and excuses. That's what made them great. It's funny that when anyone here embodies these characteristics, it's now considered "pollution" and "hating". It used be known as a commitment to excellence in our organization. Oh how far we have moved away from that now.... from ownership to even the fan base.

If you want me to blindly follow and support something in the face of data that screams otherwise, that is called religion, and I don't need it. I'm a fan, not a fanatic.

Originally posted by valrod33:
no

+1

Lets see, VD tied the NFL TE record for touchdowns
Crabs had the best rookie season of a 49er since #80

Both at the hands of #11

I think he has a little more cred than just puffing out his chest

What happened to the 11-85 Chemistry

That said, he wasn't calling them out at all just expressing a desire to have all the weapons getting reps.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Smith calling out VD and Crabs.

That's like Rosie O'Donnell calling out Giselle Bundchen at a fashion show.

Now, now Shaj. Let's not upset the natives.

says the man who said Alex didn't have one good game all last season.

Look, we get it you guys despise, loathe, deplore Alex Smith.

But here is the little fact that none of you "realist" seem to understand. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE GIVES A s**t!

For the love of all that is good, give it a rest already, you guys are worse than the IRS. You never take a day off, not even on holidays with your anti-Smith campaign. And for what? Is it for some greater good that you must perpetually rain on others parades? Do you think your point hasn't been made loud and clear at this point?

There is absolutely nothing new that can be said at this point, so lets have a cease fire shall we? When the games matter again we will all have our answer(s). And all this bluster will be rendered meaningless, as if it weren't already. Until then, please, relax a little, its a long off season and this s**t just makes it even longer.

for the first few years after Smith got drafted, esp in year 1, skeptics like me, ZRF80, and Billl were treated like gays at an Islamic press conference in Iran. Now that we are unfortunately and regrettably villified, we're being told to keep our traps shut again, while people get excited that Smith is doing something in his 5th year that Sanchez probably did in pre-season last year with his WR's, before his first NFL snap?

Yes, until something actually happens. All the back and forth between the two sides on what has happened in the past is irrelevant. The few who try and forewarn others about what is going to happen? Foolish. They do not know what is going to happen this season, same as me or you. Its much ado about nothing, because what happens when you are proven wrong? You and the like sheepishly admit how you were wrong in the gameday thread with a "Go Niners " at the, and then all is forgiven?

You are polluting the board, there is nothing anyone can do to change your mind, not even Alex Smith himself. Anything positive he accomplished last year is quickly dismissed, with a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude, and a heavy dose of revisionist history (see: b, billbird). All the positive steps this offseason brushed off with a simple "Don't tell me. Show me" (he IS showing you!), or a "Yeah, he does it in (insert OTAs/Mini/Training Camp)." Of course you harp on every negative thing he does, then don't understand why people are irritated at the double standard.

When the regular season starts, if, if, Alex struggles you will be completely justified to shout from the rooftops your disappointment, with as much anger and vitriol as you can muster. But, until then considering the fact that it is proven there is nothing Alex can do to change your mind, please, do us all a favor and step down from the soapbox.

I've been in corporate America for 16 years now. I've noticed one singular, consistent attribute of successful executives in business: they have zero tolerance for excuses, and accept nothing less than winning. This is the ONLY attribute they have in common, and I've worked with scores of them. It's the only thing I know in business.

I share this because the NFL is a business, and you'd be hard pressed to convince me that Lombardi, Eddie D, Walsh, and other greats had the complacency that this board exhibits with piss poor results. They had this same intolerance for ineptitude and excuses. That's what made them great. It's funny that when anyone here embodies these characteristics, it's now considered "pollution" and "hating". It used be known as a commitment to excellence in our organization. Oh how far we have moved away from that now.... from ownership to even the fan base.

If you want me to blindly follow and support something in the face of data that screams otherwise, that is called religion, and I don't need it. I'm a fan, not a fanatic.

If Walsh would've just looked at stats we would've never given Steve Young a chance. And to play like a HOF QB, Steve needed multiple years on the bench learning behind the best QB ever, under the best HC ever(Walsh), with multiple all star players around him, before he did well. Troy Aikman didn't play well in his first 3 seasons(36 games). Steve didn't even start playing well as a back up until he was 26. He had 2 seasons with good QB ratings and 1 inbetween where he was at 72 before he did anything really good at all. And he really didn't do anything that mattered until he was 30. Rich Gannon didn't post a QB rating above 81 until he was 31. Jim PLunkett only had 3 seasons with a QB rating that was higher than Alex's was last year.

This is dumb thread. Davis and Crabtree are injured, that's why they are not playing. Both are known for being hard workers. Alex knows this, he was just commenting on how he would like to be getting more reps with them, not calling them out. When they are cleared to play, they will.

Next thread

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
This is dumb thread. Davis and Crabtree are injured, that's why they are not playing. Both are known for being hard workers. Alex knows this, he was just commenting on how he would like to be getting more reps with them, not calling them out. When they are cleared to play, they will.

Next thread

*9ertalk earplugs on*

I CAN'T HEAR YOU





basically what DaveWilcox said is right....man how many more days till Sunday.

[ Edited by Afrikan on Aug 19, 2010 at 23:15:26 ]

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Smith calling out VD and Crabs.

That's like Rosie O'Donnell calling out Giselle Bundchen at a fashion show.

Now, now Shaj. Let's not upset the natives.

says the man who said Alex didn't have one good game all last season.

Look, we get it you guys despise, loathe, deplore Alex Smith.

But here is the little fact that none of you "realist" seem to understand. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE GIVES A s**t!

For the love of all that is good, give it a rest already, you guys are worse than the IRS. You never take a day off, not even on holidays with your anti-Smith campaign. And for what? Is it for some greater good that you must perpetually rain on others parades? Do you think your point hasn't been made loud and clear at this point?

There is absolutely nothing new that can be said at this point, so lets have a cease fire shall we? When the games matter again we will all have our answer(s). And all this bluster will be rendered meaningless, as if it weren't already. Until then, please, relax a little, its a long off season and this s**t just makes it even longer.

for the first few years after Smith got drafted, esp in year 1, skeptics like me, ZRF80, and Billl were treated like gays at an Islamic press conference in Iran. Now that we are unfortunately and regrettably villified, we're being told to keep our traps shut again, while people get excited that Smith is doing something in his 5th year that Sanchez probably did in pre-season last year with his WR's, before his first NFL snap?

Yes, until something actually happens. All the back and forth between the two sides on what has happened in the past is irrelevant. The few who try and forewarn others about what is going to happen? Foolish. They do not know what is going to happen this season, same as me or you. Its much ado about nothing, because what happens when you are proven wrong? You and the like sheepishly admit how you were wrong in the gameday thread with a "Go Niners " at the, and then all is forgiven?

You are polluting the board, there is nothing anyone can do to change your mind, not even Alex Smith himself. Anything positive he accomplished last year is quickly dismissed, with a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude, and a heavy dose of revisionist history (see: b, billbird). All the positive steps this offseason brushed off with a simple "Don't tell me. Show me" (he IS showing you!), or a "Yeah, he does it in (insert OTAs/Mini/Training Camp)." Of course you harp on every negative thing he does, then don't understand why people are irritated at the double standard.

When the regular season starts, if, if, Alex struggles you will be completely justified to shout from the rooftops your disappointment, with as much anger and vitriol as you can muster. But, until then considering the fact that it is proven there is nothing Alex can do to change your mind, please, do us all a favor and step down from the soapbox.

I've been in corporate America for 16 years now. I've noticed one singular, consistent attribute of successful executives in business: they have zero tolerance for excuses, and accept nothing less than winning. This is the ONLY attribute they have in common, and I've worked with scores of them. It's the only thing I know in business.

I share this because the NFL is a business, and you'd be hard pressed to convince me that Lombardi, Eddie D, Walsh, and other greats had the complacency that this board exhibits with piss poor results. They had this same intolerance for ineptitude and excuses. That's what made them great. It's funny that when anyone here embodies these characteristics, it's now considered "pollution" and "hating". It used be known as a commitment to excellence in our organization. Oh how far we have moved away from that now.... from ownership to even the fan base.

If you want me to blindly follow and support something in the face of data that screams otherwise, that is called religion, and I don't need it. I'm a fan, not a fanatic.

If Walsh would've just looked at stats we would've never given Steve Young a chance. And to play like a HOF QB, Steve needed multiple years on the bench learning behind the best QB ever, under the best HC ever(Walsh), with multiple all star players around him, before he did well. Troy Aikman didn't play well in his first 3 seasons(36 games). Steve didn't even start playing well as a back up until he was 26. He had 2 seasons with good QB ratings and 1 inbetween where he was at 72 before he did anything really good at all. And he really didn't do anything that mattered until he was 30. Rich Gannon didn't post a QB rating above 81 until he was 31. Jim PLunkett only had 3 seasons with a QB rating that was higher than Alex's was last year.

here we go again.... Einstein got f's in science... my kid gets f's in science, therefore my kid may be the next Einstein. For every one example you can come up with where this was true (Young, Plunkett, Aikman), there are hundreds of examples where it wasn't. Meanwhile, you missed the point completely because Walsh never abandoned a commitment to excellence while at the helm. He didn't put Steve in to replace Joe until he (Steve) was already demonstrating results that met his (Walsh's) criteria. Please don't compare Steve Young of that era to Alex Smith. There is no comparison.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:


If Walsh would've just looked at stats we would've never given Steve Young a chance. And to play like a HOF QB, Steve needed multiple years on the bench learning behind the best QB ever, under the best HC ever(Walsh), with multiple all star players around him, before he did well. Troy Aikman didn't play well in his first 3 seasons(36 games). Steve didn't even start playing well as a back up until he was 26. He had 2 seasons with good QB ratings and 1 inbetween where he was at 72 before he did anything really good at all. And he really didn't do anything that mattered until he was 30. Rich Gannon didn't post a QB rating above 81 until he was 31. Jim PLunkett only had 3 seasons with a QB rating that was higher than Alex's was last year.

here we go again.... Einstein got f's in science... my kid gets f's in science, therefore my kid may be the next Einstein. For every one example you can come up with where this was true (Young, Plunkett, Aikman), there are hundreds of examples where it wasn't. Meanwhile, you missed the point completely because Walsh never abandoned a commitment to excellence while at the helm. He didn't put Steve in to replace Joe until he (Steve) was already demonstrating results that met his (Walsh's) criteria. Please don't compare Steve Young of that era to Alex Smith. There is no comparison.

Not true. Walsh experimented with replacing Montana with Young early in 1987 and 1988 at least in some games claiming that Montana wasn't completely healthy - Montana thought otherwise - but the experiment backfired because it created confusion for the offense because the two QBs had distinct playing styles. He reinstalled Montana as the undisputed starter after a 6-5 start - ironically Montana started in 4 of the 5 losses. Montana was reportedly very upset with Walsh over that experience.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Smith calling out VD and Crabs.

That's like Rosie O'Donnell calling out Giselle Bundchen at a fashion show.

Now, now Shaj. Let's not upset the natives.

says the man who said Alex didn't have one good game all last season.

Look, we get it you guys despise, loathe, deplore Alex Smith.

But here is the little fact that none of you "realist" seem to understand. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE GIVES A s**t!

For the love of all that is good, give it a rest already, you guys are worse than the IRS. You never take a day off, not even on holidays with your anti-Smith campaign. And for what? Is it for some greater good that you must perpetually rain on others parades? Do you think your point hasn't been made loud and clear at this point?

There is absolutely nothing new that can be said at this point, so lets have a cease fire shall we? When the games matter again we will all have our answer(s). And all this bluster will be rendered meaningless, as if it weren't already. Until then, please, relax a little, its a long off season and this s**t just makes it even longer.

for the first few years after Smith got drafted, esp in year 1, skeptics like me, ZRF80, and Billl were treated like gays at an Islamic press conference in Iran. Now that we are unfortunately and regrettably villified, we're being told to keep our traps shut again, while people get excited that Smith is doing something in his 5th year that Sanchez probably did in pre-season last year with his WR's, before his first NFL snap?

Yes, until something actually happens. All the back and forth between the two sides on what has happened in the past is irrelevant. The few who try and forewarn others about what is going to happen? Foolish. They do not know what is going to happen this season, same as me or you. Its much ado about nothing, because what happens when you are proven wrong? You and the like sheepishly admit how you were wrong in the gameday thread with a "Go Niners " at the, and then all is forgiven?

You are polluting the board, there is nothing anyone can do to change your mind, not even Alex Smith himself. Anything positive he accomplished last year is quickly dismissed, with a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude, and a heavy dose of revisionist history (see: b, billbird). All the positive steps this offseason brushed off with a simple "Don't tell me. Show me" (he IS showing you!), or a "Yeah, he does it in (insert OTAs/Mini/Training Camp)." Of course you harp on every negative thing he does, then don't understand why people are irritated at the double standard.

When the regular season starts, if, if, Alex struggles you will be completely justified to shout from the rooftops your disappointment, with as much anger and vitriol as you can muster. But, until then considering the fact that it is proven there is nothing Alex can do to change your mind, please, do us all a favor and step down from the soapbox.

I've been in corporate America for 16 years now. I've noticed one singular, consistent attribute of successful executives in business: they have zero tolerance for excuses, and accept nothing less than winning. This is the ONLY attribute they have in common, and I've worked with scores of them. It's the only thing I know in business.

I share this because the NFL is a business, and you'd be hard pressed to convince me that Lombardi, Eddie D, Walsh, and other greats had the complacency that this board exhibits with piss poor results. They had this same intolerance for ineptitude and excuses. That's what made them great. It's funny that when anyone here embodies these characteristics, it's now considered "pollution" and "hating". It used be known as a commitment to excellence in our organization. Oh how far we have moved away from that now.... from ownership to even the fan base.

If you want me to blindly follow and support something in the face of data that screams otherwise, that is called religion, and I don't need it. I'm a fan, not a fanatic.

To call the state of the 49ers franchise, from 2005 to the present, to be an "excuse" for the lack of development of Alex Smith... well that's absolutely ignorant in my opinion. And from what I can see, that's what you're doing. And it's ignorant.

I seriously do not understand how you can look at the 49ers over the past 4+ years and not think the state of the franchise itself has not played a part in the poor performance of our quarterback and our overall total of wins.

You call them excuses. I call them the state of our football team.

Bad drafting on the offensive side of the ball. Terrible offensive line-play. A revolving door of piss-poor wide receivers. A new coordinator every year. A head coach that knew absolutely nothing about offense. Injuries.

That's the list of "excuses," right? I seriously don't understand how these VALID problems with the 49ers over the past 4+ years are seen as "excuses" for the poor play of Alex Smith.

The first thing I say when people talk about Alex Smith is that none of the players from his rookie year are even here anymore, save for maybe 5 (including Nedney and Lee). We were THE WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. We were rebuilding our franchise from a 2-14 record. That takes time and a careful hand.

You want to blame someone? Then blame Nolan and Scotty. Nolan and Scotty did a below-par job of turning this team around properly and we're still dealing with their mistakes. With improved drafting and front office decisons, this team could have had better players in positions of need at a faster clip. That didn't happen, and it's only now that we are turning the corner and coming out of the basement.

Blame Alex? Well for some specific wins and losses, sure. Give Alex the loss vs. Tennessee in 2009. I'll give you Philly as well, and that's being somewhat charitable. You could argue Indy, but Crabs' fumble and VD's penalty for excessive celebration didn't help either. You could argue Green Bay, but that was a pretty close game!

But if you blame Alex, please blame these guys too, cause this is what it looks like when you don't have a careful hand.

Mike Nolan
Scotty Mac
Jim Hostler
Mike Martz

Kwame Harris
Brandon Lloyd
Darrell Jackson
Taylor Jacobs
Bryan Gilmore
Jonas Jennings
Brandon Williams
Bear Pascoe
Cody Wallace (his time is coming)
Maurice Hicks
Glenn Coffee
Kevin Barlow
Anthony Clement
Brandon Jones
Michael Spurlock
Johnnie Morton
Marcus Maxwell
Rasheed Marshall
Ashley Lelie

I could name the defensive guys too... Joe Cohen. Jay Moore. Kentwan Balmer. But I'm tired and I've proved my point.

It's not all Alex. There are some other guys involved too that would have helped the 49ers and Alex Smith succeed in a team sport.

You would figure that would be obvious when all 5-6 of our starting wide receivers, our 2 tight ends, and both of our offensive tackles AND guards were not drafted until 2006 at the earliest, but I guess it's not always so easy for everyone to see.

[ Edited by NickSh49 on Aug 20, 2010 at 02:44:26 ]

Originally posted by defenderDX:

your pretty brave for posting that!!!

especially with a 70% warning level already.

[ Edited by tn9er on Aug 20, 2010 at 07:21:01 ]

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Smith calling out VD and Crabs.

That's like Rosie O'Donnell calling out Giselle Bundchen at a fashion show.

Now, now Shaj. Let's not upset the natives.

says the man who said Alex didn't have one good game all last season.

Look, we get it you guys despise, loathe, deplore Alex Smith.

But here is the little fact that none of you "realist" seem to understand. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE GIVES A s**t!

For the love of all that is good, give it a rest already, you guys are worse than the IRS. You never take a day off, not even on holidays with your anti-Smith campaign. And for what? Is it for some greater good that you must perpetually rain on others parades? Do you think your point hasn't been made loud and clear at this point?

There is absolutely nothing new that can be said at this point, so lets have a cease fire shall we? When the games matter again we will all have our answer(s). And all this bluster will be rendered meaningless, as if it weren't already. Until then, please, relax a little, its a long off season and this s**t just makes it even longer.

for the first few years after Smith got drafted, esp in year 1, skeptics like me, ZRF80, and Billl were treated like gays at an Islamic press conference in Iran. Now that we are unfortunately and regrettably villified, we're being told to keep our traps shut again, while people get excited that Smith is doing something in his 5th year that Sanchez probably did in pre-season last year with his WR's, before his first NFL snap?

Yes, until something actually happens. All the back and forth between the two sides on what has happened in the past is irrelevant. The few who try and forewarn others about what is going to happen? Foolish. They do not know what is going to happen this season, same as me or you. Its much ado about nothing, because what happens when you are proven wrong? You and the like sheepishly admit how you were wrong in the gameday thread with a "Go Niners " at the, and then all is forgiven?

You are polluting the board, there is nothing anyone can do to change your mind, not even Alex Smith himself. Anything positive he accomplished last year is quickly dismissed, with a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude, and a heavy dose of revisionist history (see: b, billbird). All the positive steps this offseason brushed off with a simple "Don't tell me. Show me" (he IS showing you!), or a "Yeah, he does it in (insert OTAs/Mini/Training Camp)." Of course you harp on every negative thing he does, then don't understand why people are irritated at the double standard.

When the regular season starts, if, if, Alex struggles you will be completely justified to shout from the rooftops your disappointment, with as much anger and vitriol as you can muster. But, until then considering the fact that it is proven there is nothing Alex can do to change your mind, please, do us all a favor and step down from the soapbox.

I've been in corporate America for 16 years now. I've noticed one singular, consistent attribute of successful executives in business: they have zero tolerance for excuses, and accept nothing less than winning. This is the ONLY attribute they have in common, and I've worked with scores of them. It's the only thing I know in business.

I share this because the NFL is a business, and you'd be hard pressed to convince me that Lombardi, Eddie D, Walsh, and other greats had the complacency that this board exhibits with piss poor results. They had this same intolerance for ineptitude and excuses. That's what made them great. It's funny that when anyone here embodies these characteristics, it's now considered "pollution" and "hating". It used be known as a commitment to excellence in our organization. Oh how far we have moved away from that now.... from ownership to even the fan base.

If you want me to blindly follow and support something in the face of data that screams otherwise, that is called religion, and I don't need it. I'm a fan, not a fanatic.

To call the state of the 49ers franchise, from 2005 to the present, to be an "excuse" for the lack of development of Alex Smith... well that's absolutely ignorant in my opinion. And from what I can see, that's what you're doing. And it's ignorant.

I seriously do not understand how you can look at the 49ers over the past 4+ years and not think the state of the franchise itself has not played a part in the poor performance of our quarterback and our overall total of wins.

You call them excuses. I call them the state of our football team.

Bad drafting on the offensive side of the ball. Terrible offensive line-play. A revolving door of piss-poor wide receivers. A new coordinator every year. A head coach that knew absolutely nothing about offense. Injuries.

That's the list of "excuses," right? I seriously don't understand how these VALID problems with the 49ers over the past 4+ years are seen as "excuses" for the poor play of Alex Smith.

The first thing I say when people talk about Alex Smith is that none of the players from his rookie year are even here anymore, save for maybe 5 (including Nedney and Lee). We were THE WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. We were rebuilding our franchise from a 2-14 record. That takes time and a careful hand.

You want to blame someone? Then blame Nolan and Scotty. Nolan and Scotty did a below-par job of turning this team around properly and we're still dealing with their mistakes. With improved drafting and front office decisons, this team could have had better players in positions of need at a faster clip. That didn't happen, and it's only now that we are turning the corner and coming out of the basement.

Blame Alex? Well for some specific wins and losses, sure. Give Alex the loss vs. Tennessee in 2009. I'll give you Philly as well, and that's being somewhat charitable. You could argue Indy, but Crabs' fumble and VD's penalty for excessive celebration didn't help either. You could argue Green Bay, but that was a pretty close game!

But if you blame Alex, please blame these guys too, cause this is what it looks like when you don't have a careful hand.

Mike Nolan
Scotty Mac
Jim Hostler
Mike Martz

Kwame Harris
Brandon Lloyd
Darrell Jackson
Taylor Jacobs
Bryan Gilmore
Jonas Jennings
Brandon Williams
Bear Pascoe
Cody Wallace (his time is coming)
Maurice Hicks
Glenn Coffee
Kevin Barlow
Anthony Clement
Brandon Jones
Michael Spurlock
Johnnie Morton
Marcus Maxwell
Rasheed Marshall
Ashley Lelie

I could name the defensive guys too... Joe Cohen. Jay Moore. Kentwan Balmer. But I'm tired and I've proved my point.

It's not all Alex. There are some other guys involved too that would have helped the 49ers and Alex Smith succeed in a team sport.

You would figure that would be obvious when all 5-6 of our starting wide receivers, our 2 tight ends, and both of our offensive tackles AND guards were not drafted until 2006 at the earliest, but I guess it's not always so easy for everyone to see.

It's hard to disagree with you. There are lots of mitigating circumstances. It is definitely not all on Alex. If it were, teams could just draft great QBs and be set. When the Patriots lost their last SB to the Giants, the OL was a big part to blame, as Brady was getting his ass kicked by the Giant's DE's.

My feeling though is that with the QB position, greatness largely transcends issues around you, and you bring the rest of the team to a new level. With Smith, it seems we need to surround him with greatness to bring him to a new level. He just doesn't have that X factor.

Unfortunately, Nolan was looking for a meek yes man who was a follower and not a leader. He said as much when talking about the "roll the football around your legs" exercise that he made Smith do. Rodgers had a swagger that rubbed Nolan the wrong way. A swagger (and ability to play) that we desparately needed. We're paying the price for that now.

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
This is dumb thread. Davis and Crabtree are injured, that's why they are not playing. Both are known for being hard workers. Alex knows this, he was just commenting on how he would like to be getting more reps with them, not calling them out. When they are cleared to play, they will.

Next thread

I agree.... But you should know by now how Zoners react to the smallest, insignificant news.