Another Season of Gore Facing 8 in the Box?

Originally posted by niteshade80:
I would say that if you put 8 in the box, that would be a huge mistake, Crabtree will be a scorcher, VD is VD just catching the ball and run over people, and then you have Morgan and Ginn, all fast WRs, you put 8 in the box on that, nice try. I know in Raye's history, he has not done all that much with the passing game because he really didn't have too much at WRs in those teams. But the drafting of Crabtree, trade for Ginn, and getting VD more involved last year is an indication of things to come. That is not a false front, but a realization of things to come.

Since when has Cratbree and Morgan become scorchers? They might be the slowest starting receiving tandem in football.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by niteshade80:
I would say that if you put 8 in the box, that would be a huge mistake, Crabtree will be a scorcher, VD is VD just catching the ball and run over people, and then you have Morgan and Ginn, all fast WRs, you put 8 in the box on that, nice try. I know in Raye's history, he has not done all that much with the passing game because he really didn't have too much at WRs in those teams. But the drafting of Crabtree, trade for Ginn, and getting VD more involved last year is an indication of things to come. That is not a false front, but a realization of things to come.

Since when has Cratbree and Morgan become scorchers? They might be the slowest starting receiving tandem in football.

I like that quote at this website: http://soonertimesbb.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=7690&forum_id=2 - "There’s field speed, and there’s 40-yard dash speed."

I also like this quote that they used, "The NFL’s all-time leading rusher, Emmitt Smith, ran a 4.6 in the 40-yard dash. The NFL’s all-time leading receiver, Jerry Rice, ran 4.71." Hmmmmm....., to me a 4.71 yes its true its not a 4.2 40, but to be the best Wide Reciever ever, that sure is impressive, and he sure scorched a lot of players. What a scorcher he was for running slower then some LBs. Laws of physics does not apply here, its the ability to burn (scorch) a nice tender CB, with what one has in their heart and desires. As of note, Josh Morgan, according to http://sfo.scout.com/2/750445.html, runs a 4.45 40, not bad, just a tad over VDs 4.38 40 he ran during his draft year, not bad.

Being a former collegiate LB myself, the one thing that I noticed during my years playing ball is that come the 4th quarter, the other x-factor that these pro teams really need to pay more attention to is consistency in speed. I've played against fast receivers’ that look really fast during the start, but come the 4th quarters of many of those games, these WRs could not maintain that explosive speed and I was able to beat some of them myself on the football field. These are the portions of the game where your guys like a Jerry Rice and I hate to say it but guys like Michael Irvin also just killed these other teams because of how hard they worked and their ability to stay consistent, while defenders get tired. The definition of scorcher in this regard, in my book, also must apply.

They might should run the 40 yard speed tests differently, perhaps make them run the 40 maybe 25-30 times. You'll start to notice that many of the WRs at first run faster than anything, but at about run number 12 or 14, they might be the slowest guys on the field and your guys running the 4.5 40s are still running it in that range. If the receiver can only maintain that high speed for 3-4 runs, they are not all they cracked up to be, they are actually slow. I would say being able to keep that speed to around that same level throughout the entire game is about 75% of the battle. The receivers that can persevere and keep crunching at it.

Originally posted by niteshade80:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by niteshade80:
I would say that if you put 8 in the box, that would be a huge mistake, Crabtree will be a scorcher, VD is VD just catching the ball and run over people, and then you have Morgan and Ginn, all fast WRs, you put 8 in the box on that, nice try. I know in Raye's history, he has not done all that much with the passing game because he really didn't have too much at WRs in those teams. But the drafting of Crabtree, trade for Ginn, and getting VD more involved last year is an indication of things to come. That is not a false front, but a realization of things to come.

Since when has Cratbree and Morgan become scorchers? They might be the slowest starting receiving tandem in football.

I like that quote at this website: http://soonertimesbb.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=7690&forum_id=2 - "There’s field speed, and there’s 40-yard dash speed."

I also like this quote that they used, "The NFL’s all-time leading rusher, Emmitt Smith, ran a 4.6 in the 40-yard dash. The NFL’s all-time leading receiver, Jerry Rice, ran 4.71." Hmmmmm....., to me a 4.71 yes its true its not a 4.2 40, but to be the best Wide Reciever ever, that sure is impressive, and he sure scorched a lot of players. What a scorcher he was for running slower then some LBs. Laws of physics does not apply here, its the ability to burn (scorch) a nice tender CB, with what one has in their heart and desires. As of note, Josh Morgan, according to http://sfo.scout.com/2/750445.html, runs a 4.45 40, not bad, just a tad over VDs 4.38 40 he ran during his draft year, not bad.

Being a former collegiate LB myself, the one thing that I noticed during my years playing ball is that come the 4th quarter, the other x-factor that these pro teams really need to pay more attention to is consistency in speed. I've played against fast receivers’ that look really fast during the start, but come the 4th quarters of many of those games, these WRs could not maintain that explosive speed and I was able to beat some of them myself on the football field. These are the portions of the game where your guys like a Jerry Rice and I hate to say it but guys like Michael Irvin also just killed these other teams because of how hard they worked and their ability to stay consistent, while defenders get tired. The definition of scorcher in this regard, in my book, also must apply.

They might should run the 40 yard speed tests differently, perhaps make them run the 40 maybe 25-30 times. You'll start to notice that many of the WRs at first run faster than anything, but at about run number 12 or 14, they might be the slowest guys on the field and your guys running the 4.5 40s are still running it in that range. If the receiver can only maintain that high speed for 3-4 runs, they are not all they cracked up to be, they are actually slow. I would say being able to keep that speed to around that same level throughout the entire game is about 75% of the battle. The receivers that can persevere and keep crunching at it.

wow

Originally posted by niteshade80:
I would say that if you put 8 in the box, that would be a huge mistake, Crabtree will be a scorcher, VD is VD just catching the ball and run over people, and then you have Morgan and Ginn, all fast WRs, you put 8 in the box on that, nice try. I know in Raye's history, he has not done all that much with the passing game because he really didn't have too much at WRs in those teams. But the drafting of Crabtree, trade for Ginn, and getting VD more involved last year is an indication of things to come. That is not a false front, but a realization of things to come.

Preach my brotha, Preach!!!!!!! Alex Smith is a very capable quarterback, you have weapons above average at every offensive position (except the line, duh!!!) and a top 5 to 7 defense now if the offense does wat its supposed to at an nfl level caliber, i say a top 4 for damn sure but the offense has got to stay on the field, score points, and not turn the ball over!!! We just gotta com and bring it every week and we gon be where we all know we should be!!!!!!!!

I think defenses will test us early by putting 8 in the box and sending outside blitzes. For how long will they test us like this often? That will depend heavily on the OL and our QB's/receiver's supposedly improved awareness of how to counteract such attempts. I think before long, SF will have defenses playing us very "honestly"... afraid of both pass and run... finally!

Originally posted by niteshade80:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by niteshade80:
I would say that if you put 8 in the box, that would be a huge mistake, Crabtree will be a scorcher, VD is VD just catching the ball and run over people, and then you have Morgan and Ginn, all fast WRs, you put 8 in the box on that, nice try. I know in Raye's history, he has not done all that much with the passing game because he really didn't have too much at WRs in those teams. But the drafting of Crabtree, trade for Ginn, and getting VD more involved last year is an indication of things to come. That is not a false front, but a realization of things to come.

Since when has Cratbree and Morgan become scorchers? They might be the slowest starting receiving tandem in football.

I like that quote at this website: http://soonertimesbb.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=7690&forum_id=2 - "There’s field speed, and there’s 40-yard dash speed."

I also like this quote that they used, "The NFL’s all-time leading rusher, Emmitt Smith, ran a 4.6 in the 40-yard dash. The NFL’s all-time leading receiver, Jerry Rice, ran 4.71." Hmmmmm....., to me a 4.71 yes its true its not a 4.2 40, but to be the best Wide Reciever ever, that sure is impressive, and he sure scorched a lot of players. What a scorcher he was for running slower then some LBs. Laws of physics does not apply here, its the ability to burn (scorch) a nice tender CB, with what one has in their heart and desires. As of note, Josh Morgan, according to http://sfo.scout.com/2/750445.html, runs a 4.45 40, not bad, just a tad over VDs 4.38 40 he ran during his draft year, not bad.

Being a former collegiate LB myself, the one thing that I noticed during my years playing ball is that come the 4th quarter, the other x-factor that these pro teams really need to pay more attention to is consistency in speed. I've played against fast receivers’ that look really fast during the start, but come the 4th quarters of many of those games, these WRs could not maintain that explosive speed and I was able to beat some of them myself on the football field. These are the portions of the game where your guys like a Jerry Rice and I hate to say it but guys like Michael Irvin also just killed these other teams because of how hard they worked and their ability to stay consistent, while defenders get tired. The definition of scorcher in this regard, in my book, also must apply.

They might should run the 40 yard speed tests differently, perhaps make them run the 40 maybe 25-30 times. You'll start to notice that many of the WRs at first run faster than anything, but at about run number 12 or 14, they might be the slowest guys on the field and your guys running the 4.5 40s are still running it in that range. If the receiver can only maintain that high speed for 3-4 runs, they are not all they cracked up to be, they are actually slow. I would say being able to keep that speed to around that same level throughout the entire game is about 75% of the battle. The receivers that can persevere and keep crunching at it.

With all due respect Morgan averaged 10.1 YPC last season. Yo do the math and tell me how you can compare that to Jerry Rice and his ability to separate and create RAC.

Jerry Rice didn't have 4.71 speed either. All 40 times those days were hand times and many scouts had Jerry Rice running in the 4.4's during his combine, most notably Gil Brandt.

Let's hope so.

Morgan couldn't get separation to save his life. That's why when Vernon or Crabtree were covered last year, Alex would be running for his life. We really need a burner WR to compliment Crabtree because Morgan is not the guy. Hell, he's in his early 20's and his legs were getting tired in practice like Walt Harris or something. I'm not a big fan of Josh Morgan.

It's Jimmy Raye, so yes, you better expect the 8 men box!

naw, just send vern to line up as a wr

then its only 7

I dont think they will, at least not as much as previous years. VD has really made a name for himself and will demand attention from the safeties, keeping them out of the box. Crabtree's slants and short quick routes will be a staple in the offense so teams must respect that. Throw in Ginn, and we're all set

I still feel iffy about Jimmy Raye's play-calling, but our success depends upon Alex's "inner-maverick" to peak and take control of the play-calling/decision-making (it's what everybody on our coaching staff wants to see).

Alex needs to go renegade like his old Johnny Utah days, and spread the offense out when it's time to unleash the dragon (but also be able to know when to play it safe when he gets some shady 'looks' from opposing defenses).

But the biggest resolution our offensive needs to absolve this season is that they are within a complete understanding of the system (then play-calling will be less vanilla, and the confidence levels will be in auto-pilot).

Originally posted by stevenking57:
Early on teams will test our running and see if Raye will try to throw the ball. After all, teams have been stacking us since Sing took over and it has proven a winning formula to beat us. Why change now? IF we do/can throw the ball we we win games and force defenses to play us more honestly. Keep your fingers crossed that Sing and Raye quit the "We will run the ball 60 percent of the time." quote they stated last summer.

Hopefully we do run 60% of the time. That means our offense is successfull.

When it matters it should be 50-50'ish, but teams that end with a run % that high are usually successful. Regardless of their preferences, most losing teams won't end up with a % near that because coaches aren't that stubborn. We desired that, but ended up with like 54%/46% or something like that. We had to pass, but if our offense and defense perform as desired, our run % will go way up.

49ersMan420 beat me to it, but if we see 8 in a box, and poti blocks like he did in college, staley is healed, AD figures out the plays, rachal plays back to USC days, and hopefully our C, whoever he is can block and stay out of Alex's way, then i would relish 8 men in a box . Summary: if our OL comes thru like i believe they will, 8 in a box is very susceptible to 65 yd TD runs on 3rd and 2. Also, with alex now confident in his OC (hey, he's been here more than a yr), 8 in a box is a great way to dink and dunk, QUICKLY , and then watch a 1 step drop go for 30 quick yds. My belief is we do this against poorer teams, get stymied by really great teams, and have a 50/50 shot at teams equal to us...at the start of the season. By midseason, i don't expect to see anymore 8 in a box, when all OL starters are in gear.

Say anything you want, but our OL is the key to a great yr vs just another yr. 8 in a box, our nemesis since 2 yrs ago against AZ(?), is going to come to a screeching halt. But our OL has to get it together quick, regardless of who starts. Eventually, maybe by 4th or 5th game i would hope to see staley, poti, C(?), rachal,AD... and don't forget, we do have a TE who can block in VD. I would not be disappointed if sims played early on, as his last half of 2009 was excellent. Our future is our OL. Our OL is our future. We live and die with this OL, and with 3 1st rd picks starting, i like our chances. C has to play a whole lot better than last yr, and i don't care who starts...he just better be ready to play, with very improved guys on either side of him. RAchal has to be turned around, and solari and big ray are going to do that. AD will take time, and then, lookout.

Is there anybody out there that doesn't think alex has gone over how to beat box 8 more than a thousand times in his head? I bet he thinks about it watching film, thinks about it at LOS, and thinks about it going to bed. Naw, i look for us to roast box 8 early on, and then see it disappear.

Originally posted by 49ERGUY:
We finally have a good group of WR's with Crabtree and speed with Ginn and then add V Davis and finally a second year in the same offensive system , defenses should start to find it hard to play 8 in the box.

I've heard that one before. I'll believe it when I see it.