Originally posted by tjd808185:Originally posted by NinerGM:Originally posted by qnnhan7:Originally posted by tjd808185:Originally posted by qnnhan7:Originally posted by tjd808185:Originally posted by Ripamaru:Originally posted by tommyncal:
Does anyone else find this statement by Singletary perplexing or even scary? "To me, I still believe the quarterback position is really important. But I don't think it's what they make it out to be. 'The quarterback is the most important guy"...' I don't believe that. I really don't."
Seems like every coach, analyst or whoever, that has anything to do with the NFL, has stated, at one time or another, it all starts with the QB. Just curious how many of you believe the same or are you worried about Sing's vision and plan for this team into the future? I understand it takes more than just a QB to win, but, if you had to choose between a franchise QB and franchise (insert any other position) . . . I'll take the QB
The QB is not the most important. This is a fact that many fail to accept.
Offensive line is by far the most important part of the team. Without a solid offensive line there isnt a single QB on the planet that can succeed at the NFL level.
There have been super bowl champions without a good QB (Trent Dilfer), There have been champions without a good RB, Without legit WR's, there have even been champs with poor defense (rams).
There has NEVER been a championship team with a crap O-line. EVER.
You should NEVER start to build a team with a QB. It always fails. (Couch, Carr etc.) All you will get is the QB killed. Why most have yet to figure this out is beyond me.
Peyton Manning came into the league with a great LT already in place. The proper mold would is to start building the o-line first. Once that is solid then and only then do you start thinking QB.
Think of it this way. If you have a GREAT offensive line it has a trickle down effect. You can get by without a great QB because he will have all day to sit back and pick his spots. The line will open up huge holes for the running game lowering the need for a great RB. Any half decent WR can get open every play if he has enough time.
The great O-line also makes the defense better just by keeping them off the field with clock control. A fresh defense is HUGE.
The QB by himself cannot do any of those things in the NFL.
Offensive lines don't make mediocre quarterbacks great. You can't give me one recent scenario when a below average quarterback turned into a great quarterback because of an offensive line. Troy Aikman might be the closest thing you can come to, but he was the 1st pick in the draft going to real bad team, and he developed in year 4 not year 16 like Alex.
Everybody points to Baltimore and Trent Dilfer. Baltimore arguably had the best defense of all time, and a 2,000 yard rusher. Good luck trying to recreate that. Yeah you're right you can win without a QB in this league, but your odds aren't that great. Look at Baltimore. Yeah they got a Super Bowl, but they severely underachieved given how dominant that defense was and how good that offensive line was. They had alot of 8-8 years during that stretch.
I don't think anyone is talking about putting in a crappy qb and expecting to have the o-line bail him out. But the o-line can certainly make an average NFL qb into a good one. Washington back in the Joe Gibbs days had done it with Rippien and others. The Giants had Phil Simms, slow average, he had the advantage of knowing he system, a good line, running game and defense. Pittsburg Steelers in the 70's had Bradshaw, as average as you can get, great o-line and defense.
The league has changed since 1982. I prefer recent examples when free agency actually effected a team's lineup. If your going back 20 -30 years to prove your point you have a huge problem. Rypien's a good example I mentioned Grbac and Green in Kansas City. That's the best I could think of.
My point is that it worked though out history of the NFL. Recently, off the top Brad Johnson of Tampa Bay. I'm sure I can find more if I take the time to look further. But let me try to forget that you ask for example of putting average qb into good o-line but now request to narrow those example into recent ones.
Of course you can.
Jeff Jeff Hostetler, Phil Sims, Elvis Grbac, Rich Gannon, Chris Chandler, more recently Jake Delhomme (many argued between 2003 - 2005 he was a top NFL QB), Marc Bulger, (or any Rams QB after Pace broke down, including Warner who was cut, picked up by the Giants and thought to be washed up), Trent Greene ala Washington Redskins (not the Chiefs version) .... these are just the ones from memory. I'm SURE I can extend this list if I really researched.
Not buying any Rams QB. Those teams gave up 40 sacks a season do to Mad Martz crazy scheme (even with a healthy Orlando Pace). Not a great example of a good O line. Not really buying Rich Gannon in Oakland either.
? Kurt Warner and Marc Bulger with blocking isn't a buy? Serious not a great example of a good line when leading the league in all statistical offensive categories in 1999 and leaders in 2000? Back-to-back Super Bowl appearances. Rich Gannon not a great example? Super Bowl appearance? Had enough time to throw to an aging Jerry Rice?
Sorry man but I'm not sure about your reasoning here. It seems to be a bit extreme.