Is Manny Lawson Onboard with the 49ers New Culture?

Originally posted by NinerGM:

I'm trying to be unbiased about this and you just don't hear this assessment around the league. Great players show up in big games and my recollection, particularly last season, it was Willis who showed up much more than Lawson.

Willis shows up more than anyone on the team. What's your point?

The reason that you aren't seeing much from Lawson might be that the thing he does well is prevent explosive plays. He covers well for a linebacker, causing the QB to look elsewhere, and also causing you to look elsewhere. He also does a good job against the run, sealing the edge so that the RB can't turn the corner, but perhaps allowing another player (Willis) to make the tackle.

In a 3-4 defense the blind side OLB is usually the flashier of the two OLBs... at least in my observations.

that article was stupid

Originally posted by NinerGM:


?? I guess I missed the Atlanta and Tenesse game. My point is that if Willis doesn't do it, then it's Spikes that tends to come up with the play that helps Willis the most, not Lawson. Again, there's a reason why the 49ers have not approached Lawson and extended him already if he's been that valuable ala Shawnte Spencer. You guys are trying to turn this into an either/or argument and I'm not saying that at all.

- I'm not asking Lawson to make 10.5 sacks a season
- I'm not saying he's no good

I'm just saying he's OK. There's nothing wrong with OK - however, there's also nothing wrong with the word upgrade. Anyone here who thinks Lawson is the best this team can do, IMHO, is a homer.

I didn't say anything to contradict your opinion of his value as a player. I just wanted to point out that your idea that being a "playmaker" determines value may be flawed. Obviously different people value different things, so I didn't say that you were wrong. I just wanted to share an alternate point of view.

Also, a player does not have to be "great" to be worth keeping. The only "great" player on the team is Willis. Spencer certainly isn't "great" and you pointed out that he was given an extension. Teams need to keep "solid" players as well. In my opinion, not attempting to extend Lawson would be a mistake. There is no rule that says you must replace in order to upgrade. We could certainly use more quality depth at the position.

And c'mon, you have to admit it was a little silly saying Willis made more plays than Lawson.

Originally posted by NinerGM:


I'll just repeat

Ok... thanks for that.



If you didn't want to address what I wrote, you didn't have to reply. I addressed the points that you wrote... isn't that how a discussion works?

Maybe you're just embarrassed by the Willis comment. I can understand that.

i thought brooks showed up bigger than lawson imo- if we part ways i wouldnt be too hurt about it

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
That article was poorly written... And it was all based off the writer's personal assumptions. Everyone had the same info. And MM and Barrows BOTH said that skipping these OTAs in peticular was not a big deal, especially since the HEAD coach wasn't even there himself. Lawson did NOTHING to say he "isn't on board" except miss that OTA, which FYI, other players missed too, but coincidentally, this writer decides not to mention.. Awful article. Trying to create a stir from something that isn't there.

Not to mention that the author's opinion is completely false, in my own opinion. Manny Lawson is our #2 most important LB. He does all the dirty work that doesn't get noticed. He is an intricate part of our run defense, which has kept us in games we shouldn't have been in. He provides decent pressure, is above average pass defender, and a great presence in the locker room.

Fans call Lawson a disappointment since he's been drafted, when the reality is the only thing that's been disappointed is the expectation of that fan.

If you look at Lawson's game with an unbiased mindset of what you think he should be, you see how good he really is.

I'm trying to be unbiased about this and you just don't hear this assessment around the league. Great players show up in big games and my recollection, particularly last season, it was Willis who showed up much more than Lawson.

Well DUH Captain Obvious. Willis is a HOF lock barring injury, while Lawson is a good player but will never sniff the HOF. Willis showed up more than nearly any other LB in the NFL last season, does that mean nearly every other LB in the league sucks cause they can't compare to Willis?

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

I'm trying to be unbiased about this and you just don't hear this assessment around the league. Great players show up in big games and my recollection, particularly last season, it was Willis who showed up much more than Lawson.

Willis shows up more than anyone on the team. What's your point?

The reason that you aren't seeing much from Lawson might be that the thing he does well is prevent explosive plays. He covers well for a linebacker, causing the QB to look elsewhere, and also causing you to look elsewhere. He also does a good job against the run, sealing the edge so that the RB can't turn the corner, but perhaps allowing another player (Willis) to make the tackle.

In a 3-4 defense the blind side OLB is usually the flashier of the two OLBs... at least in my observations.

?? I guess I missed the Atlanta and Tenesse game. My point is that if Willis doesn't do it, then it's Spikes that tends to come up with the play that helps Willis the most, not Lawson. Again, there's a reason why the 49ers have not approached Lawson and extended him already if he's been that valuable ala Shawnte Spencer. You guys are trying to turn this into an either/or argument and I'm not saying that at all.

- I'm not asking Lawson to make 10.5 sacks a season
- I'm not saying he's no good

I'm just saying he's OK. There's nothing wrong with OK - however, there's also nothing wrong with the word upgrade. Anyone here who thinks Lawson is the best this team can do, IMHO, is a homer.

Lawson is not the BEST (but better than the "ok" you used to describe him) we could do , but you don't need the BEST at every position, and he's not one of the first guys we should worry about upgradin. I would rather see upgrades over guys like Mike Lewis, Ice, Bass, Snyder, Haralson, Moran Norris, Brandon Jones....

Originally posted by ninerfaithful80:
i thought brooks showed up bigger than lawson imo- if we part ways i wouldnt be too hurt about it

Brooks did show up bigger than Lawson in really ONE game. I would like to see Brooks over the whole season. Personally, I think he will, but we've seen flashes in the pan before: Moore, Haralson (could still pick it up)

Lawson is a pretty good jack-of-all-trades sort of linebacker. No, he isn't a superstar. Few really achieve that status. He is supposed to have put on some more muscle. He did lead the team in sacks last year, lets see how he does.

We might have a good pair in Brooks and Lawson. If Brooks turns out like most of us think he will, that could also create opportunities for Lawson on the other side.

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by ninerfaithful80:
i thought brooks showed up bigger than lawson imo- if we part ways i wouldnt be too hurt about it

Brooks did show up bigger than Lawson in really ONE game. I would like to see Brooks over the whole season. Personally, I think he will, but we've seen flashes in the pan before: Moore, Haralson (could still pick it up)

Lawson is a pretty good jack-of-all-trades sort of linebacker. No, he isn't a superstar. Few really achieve that status. He is supposed to have put on some more muscle. He did lead the team in sacks last year, lets see how he does.

We might have a good pair in Brooks and Lawson. If Brooks turns out like most of us think he will, that could also create opportunities for Lawson on the other side.

But Brooks replaces Manny when he does come in the game so how are they gonna be a good pair?

One of the problems with our team: too many nice guys with avg talent. I guess it's better than constantly-breaking-the-law guys with avg talent.

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by ninerfaithful80:
i thought brooks showed up bigger than lawson imo- if we part ways i wouldnt be too hurt about it

Brooks did show up bigger than Lawson in really ONE game. I would like to see Brooks over the whole season. Personally, I think he will, but we've seen flashes in the pan before: Moore, Haralson (could still pick it up)

Lawson is a pretty good jack-of-all-trades sort of linebacker. No, he isn't a superstar. Few really achieve that status. He is supposed to have put on some more muscle. He did lead the team in sacks last year, lets see how he does.

We might have a good pair in Brooks and Lawson. If Brooks turns out like most of us think he will, that could also create opportunities for Lawson on the other side.

But Brooks replaces Manny when he does come in the game so how are they gonna be a good pair?

I would like to see Brooks get work at Will. I think they would make a good pair together. Don't know if we'll see it though. I'm not sold on Haralson though. Between Haralson and Manny, I would rather Manny stay in. His long arms, height, and speed are more of an asset than what Haralson has to offer IMO.

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by ninerfaithful80:
i thought brooks showed up bigger than lawson imo- if we part ways i wouldnt be too hurt about it

Brooks did show up bigger than Lawson in really ONE game. I would like to see Brooks over the whole season. Personally, I think he will, but we've seen flashes in the pan before: Moore, Haralson (could still pick it up)

Lawson is a pretty good jack-of-all-trades sort of linebacker. No, he isn't a superstar. Few really achieve that status. He is supposed to have put on some more muscle. He did lead the team in sacks last year, lets see how he does.

We might have a good pair in Brooks and Lawson. If Brooks turns out like most of us think he will, that could also create opportunities for Lawson on the other side.

But Brooks replaces Manny when he does come in the game so how are they gonna be a good pair?

I would like to see Brooks get work at Will. I think they would make a good pair together. Don't know if we'll see it though. I'm not sold on Haralson though. Between Haralson and Manny, I would rather Manny stay in. His long arms, height, and speed are more of an asset than what Haralson has to offer IMO.

I'd be OK with this if we also drafted a Graham to replace Lawson on pass rushing downs which would help keep everyone fresh.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by ninerfaithful80:
i thought brooks showed up bigger than lawson imo- if we part ways i wouldnt be too hurt about it

Brooks did show up bigger than Lawson in really ONE game. I would like to see Brooks over the whole season. Personally, I think he will, but we've seen flashes in the pan before: Moore, Haralson (could still pick it up)

Lawson is a pretty good jack-of-all-trades sort of linebacker. No, he isn't a superstar. Few really achieve that status. He is supposed to have put on some more muscle. He did lead the team in sacks last year, lets see how he does.

We might have a good pair in Brooks and Lawson. If Brooks turns out like most of us think he will, that could also create opportunities for Lawson on the other side.

But Brooks replaces Manny when he does come in the game so how are they gonna be a good pair?

I would like to see Brooks get work at Will. I think they would make a good pair together. Don't know if we'll see it though. I'm not sold on Haralson though. Between Haralson and Manny, I would rather Manny stay in. His long arms, height, and speed are more of an asset than what Haralson has to offer IMO.

I'd be OK with this if we also drafted a Graham to replace Lawson on pass rushing downs which would help keep everyone fresh.

I would love to have Graham, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Originally posted by lamontb:
But Brooks replaces Manny when he does come in the game so how are they gonna be a good pair?

Did that happen every time Brooks came in the game last year? Nope. They can rotate however they want and will do so however they see fit for the time. I see Brooks taking a lot of Parys' snaps.

I think the article was full of ish lol .. somehow the convo digressed into Manny's value to the team so people went wild including myself .. I feel Manny is alright nothing to brag about in terms of his play. Could we use an upgrade, YES. Is he the worst or first person we need to replace, NO. People make the argument he does so many things well (many of which dont really show up in the stat sheet) but I guess some of us figure the things he does well can be accomplished by a 3rd or 4th round draft choice not someone you picked in the 1st round. At the end of the day if your saying he sets the edge well against the run and thats the best thing he does I'd be looking to replace him if I were his coach. He led the team with 7 sacks ok but Tully fat boy Banta Cain had 10 last year shouldnt we expect more from Manny? Maybe its the scheme