Is Manny Lawson Onboard with the 49ers New Culture?

He is slightly above average for his position and below average where he was taken in the draft.

Originally posted by BigBug415:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by BigBug415:
But since we're on the subject of "objectively looking at players on our team", let me ask you a question......how come the minute someone gives their opinion or says anything critical about #11, all his little supporters have a hissy fit? Hmmmmm.

Probably because it has been done TO DEATH many time over. Also, if you're not a supporter of #11, or any other number on this team, you're not a fan. Find someone else to bother.

You're a fool.

I learned long ago when #16 went to K.C., #42 and #33 and #80 and #44 went to Oakland, that the only number that matters is 49. I could care less about Alex Smith or anyone that doesn't contribute to this team, or anyone that doesn't want to be here.

My allegiance is to the team I've been following the last 35 yrs.

I'm a fool but you're the one that insinuated Alex has his supporters, but you are not one of them...

Originally posted by BigBug415:
how come the minute someone gives their opinion or says anything critical about #11, all his little supporters have a hissy fit? Hmmmmm.

[ Edited by Gavintech on Apr 10, 2010 at 10:25:11 ]

Originally posted by smashmouth51:
If he wasn't at OTA's then he sees the writing on the wall. "You can't give 3/4 of an effort and still pick up a pay check from the 9ers anymore. He'll be moving on.

Seriously? This is what you come up with?

Manny makes a lot more plays than he makes mistakes. I can't recall any time thinking "wow, Lawson really blew that one." I can however think of a few plays that made me say "wow, I can't believe he made that play." I wouldn't sell the farm to keep him, but for a decent price of a non-passrushing OLB I would love to keep him on this team for years to come. I think you guys under rate his other attributes and what they mean to this teams run D (WHICH IS HUGE). Pass coverage aside, some of you guys act like containing the edge is no big deal. We'll its a huge deal, especially when the league is currently looking for the next CJ under every rock. He's fast, real game speed, very athletic, sheds blocks (can't contain the edge if you cant disengage well), solid coverage (tell me the last time you saw a replay of him getting burned) and is a very very solid tackler. Add in the fact the guy is good for a blocked field goal or punt once in a while and you have your self a quality starter on a very good defense.


P.S. Could you guys imagine how much it would take to keep him if he was considered to be a very good passrusher at this stage? In my mind there isn't much of a diffrence between a 10 sack guy and a 6.5 sack guy but a huge pay check. If I'm a team that is going to shell out big big bucks for that pass rushing OLB then I want complete dominance. I want consistent 15 to 20 sacks a sesaon, otherwise you aren't getting what you paid for. Besides, how hard is it going to be to keep a Willis and a Demarcus Ware type without other parts of the D suffering?

P.S to my P.S. Haralson is the exact type of player we dont need. He gets maybe three or four more sacks on paper, but gives huge plays with missed tackles, bad angles and is blocked out of plays. Last year he did not prove to be starting quality.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Apr 10, 2010 at 11:34:29 ]

Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
That article was poorly written... And it was all based off the writer's personal assumptions. Everyone had the same info. And MM and Barrows BOTH said that skipping these OTAs in peticular was not a big deal, especially since the HEAD coach wasn't even there himself. Lawson did NOTHING to say he "isn't on board" except miss that OTA, which FYI, other players missed too, but coincidentally, this writer decides not to mention.. Awful article. Trying to create a stir from something that isn't there.

Not to mention that the author's opinion is completely false, in my own opinion. Manny Lawson is our #2 most important LB. He does all the dirty work that doesn't get noticed. He is an intricate part of our run defense, which has kept us in games we shouldn't have been in. He provides decent pressure, is above average pass defender, and a great presence in the locker room.

Fans call Lawson a disappointment since he's been drafted, when the reality is the only thing that's been disappointed is the expectation of that fan.

If you look at Lawson's game with an unbiased mindset of what you think he should be, you see how good he really is.

[ Edited by WINiner on Apr 10, 2010 at 11:47:37 ]

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
That article was poorly written... And it was all based off the writer's personal assumptions. Everyone had the same info. And MM and Barrows BOTH said that skipping these OTAs in peticular was not a big deal, especially since the HEAD coach wasn't even there himself. Lawson did NOTHING to say he "isn't on board" except miss that OTA, which FYI, other players missed too, but coincidentally, this writer decides not to mention.. Awful article. Trying to create a stir from something that isn't there.

Not to mention that the author's opinion is completely false, in my own opinion. Manny Lawson is our #2 most important LB. He does all the dirty work that doesn't get noticed. He is an intricate part of our run defense, which has kept us in games we shouldn't have been in. He provides decent pressure, is above average pass defender, and a great presence in the locker room.

Fans call Lawson a disappointment since he's been drafted, when the reality is the only thing that's been disappointed is the expectation of that fan.

If you look at Lawson's game with an unbiased mindset of what you think he should be, you see how good he really is.

We have a lot of fans whose knowledge of football falls quite short of where they believe it to sit.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I think you guys under rate his other attributes and what they mean to this teams run D (WHICH IS HUGE). Pass coverage aside, some of you guys act like containing the edge is no big deal. We'll its a huge deal, especially when the league is currently looking for the next CJ under every rock. He's fast, real game speed, very athletic, sheds blocks (can't contain the edge if you cant disengage well), solid coverage (tell me the last time you saw a replay of him getting burned) and is a very very solid tackler. Add in the fact the guy is good for a blocked field goal or punt once in a while and you have your self a quality starter on a very good defense.

I couldn't agree more. We could easily have won that Tenn game if we had a Manny on both sides instead of one Manny and one Parys. Not that I really blame Parys because CJ is a freak and not too many LBs would have stopped him on that game-deciding play but Manny most likely would have held the edge, either by making the tackle or forcing CJ out of bounds, or by at least holding CJ up another half second which would have given Willis that extra time to make the play (which he almost made anyways).

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
P.S. Could you guys imagine how much it would take to keep him if he was considered to be a very good passrusher at this stage? In my mind there isn't much of a diffrence between a 10 sack guy and a 6.5 sack guy but a huge pay check. If I'm a team that is going to shell out big big bucks for that pass rushing OLB then I want complete dominance. I want consistent 15 to 20 sacks a sesaon, otherwise you aren't getting what you paid for. Besides, how hard is it going to be to keep a Willis and a Demarcus Ware type without other parts of the D suffering?

Seriously! The fact that he hasn't been as good a passrusher statistically as people hoped/expected might be a blessing come FA/extension time.

I remember when we drafted Manny. Alot of people on this board thought he was a better pass rusher than Mario Williams was. Some also felt that Mario got his high sack numbers in college because Manny was on the other side supplying the pressure.

I think expectations were set extremely high with Manny from the get go.Maybe too high. I think Manny is a good versatile player. His sack numbers are what they are. I think part of that is adjusting being in the 3-4, as well as his time missed due to injury and Nolan's love of the Big Nickel where Manny was pulled off the field for the majority of alot of games. I would have to agree that I would much rather keep Manny than Parys Haralson because Manny's coverage ability and versatility allows our defense to be versatile as well.Haralson's sack numbers are less and he gives up alot of big plays in the running game.

Why do fans always blame the player for being drafted too high? Lawson didn't choose where he was drafted; McCloughan did. Was he good value for the number 22 pick? No. That's McCloughan's fault, not Lawson's.

Is he a good Linebacker? Hell yeah. Football teams aren't made up of 53 pro-bowlers. You need good solid players like Lawson on your team. Not everyone's a star. And where did this writer get the idea that Lawson doesn't try hard enough? I've never seen him take a play off and I've never heard or read anything to indicate that he's less than 100% dedicated to football. He missed one (insanely early) OTA? Big deal.

[ Edited by Lifer on Apr 10, 2010 at 16:50:45 ]

check out 1:30 of this pwilly vid. u wont see lawson giving up like parys did on that play. EVERYTHING he did on that play was bad, spacing, angle, giving up thinking hightower would go out of bounds...he's lucky pwilly caught him.

[ Edited by Sinsation on Apr 10, 2010 at 15:50:57 ]

Originally posted by Lifer:
Why do fans always blame the player for being drafted too high? Lawson didn't choose where he was drafted; McCloughan did. Was he good value for the number 22 pick? No. And that's McCloughan's fault, not Lawson's.

Is he a good Linebacker? Hell yeah. Football teams aren't made up of 52 pro-bowlers. You need good solid players like Lawson on your team. Not everyone's a star. And where did this writer get the idea that Lawson doesn't try hard enough? I've never seen him take a play off and I've never heard or read anything to indicate that he's less than 100% dedicated to football. He missed one (insanely early) OTA? Big deal.

Players will always be judged on where they are drafted and how much money they make.

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by bjghum:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by bjghum:
Meh, Lawson is just another guy. Nothing special and can be easily replaced.

Nice guy, seems like a team guy. Nothing special on Sundays.

I'm also not sure where his so called amazing cover ability came from.

One nice pick against a horrid rams team and the guy is suddenly Deion. LOL

The pick has nothing to do with it. He gets that label because he is good in coverage. Very good for a OLB. When you excel at something compared to other NFL starters at your position you are considered to be good at that thing...

Give me one example of this guy having an impact in coverage.

OK, because that makes sense. I have a full catalog of plays committed to memory when an OLB made an impact in coverage.

First you give me one example of this guy not having an impact in coverage.

It makes perfect sense. You don't need a full catalog of games either.

Just go to a couple of games and watch Manny through binoculars, watch a couple games on TV. I'm sure you've done that right?

Lawson will be fine imo.

Originally posted by Lifer:
Why do fans always blame the player for being drafted too high? Lawson didn't choose where he was drafted; McCloughan did. Was he good value for the number 22 pick? No. That's McCloughan's fault, not Lawson's.

Is he a good Linebacker? Hell yeah. Football teams aren't made up of 53 pro-bowlers. You need good solid players like Lawson on your team. Not everyone's a star. And where did this writer get the idea that Lawson doesn't try hard enough? I've never seen him take a play off and I've never heard or read anything to indicate that he's less than 100% dedicated to football. He missed one (insanely early) OTA? Big deal.

this

MAN LAW.