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Crash Course for Nate Davis?

The thing is we haven't invested much into Davis and there are other priorities than developing a late round project QB. Nate is a third stringer barring a disaster,
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
The thing is we haven't invested much into Davis and there are other priorities than developing a late round project QB. Nate is a third stringer barring a disaster,

yep so was kurt warner before he got his chance. He wasn't considered to be anything until he played and showed he could play.
Originally posted by aiiyiiyiii:
Originally posted by thojess:
Originally posted by aiiyiiyiii:
Originally posted by NinerFan408:


no we dont need a competition. that just makes the team worse.

Please use a smiley, otherwise someone might think you're serious!

He's right. We need a training camp where our starting QB gets all the reps and comes into the season as prepared as possible for once. Nate Davis was a project pick that the niners are giving plenty of time to develop. It's not like he's gonna come in and out play Alex at this point. Alex is gonna throw 25+ touchdowns in 2010 and probably 10ish interceptions. Davis is not gonna be ready to perform at that level for at least another year or two.

See, I think that's the problem. They choose their starter, then hold this sham "competition" and the non-chosen ones hardly see any snaps. Remember when Shaun Hill ended up the starter, but had to do it without the benefit of practice snaps, because his "arm was sore." and he had to go public to say it really wasn't?

I just can't imagine a scenario where open, honest competition for jobs is bad for the team. If they don't allow it, then sure, Nate won't be ready to perform until his rookie contract is nearly over. Then, he'll go elsewhere and star for another team.

Do I think Nate can outperform Alex in a fair competition? I think there's a good chance of it. I'd like to see him have the chance to make it happen.


The team has seen these guys side by side for nearly a year, day after day, in practice. You have seen Nate Davis play like half an hour of football against 3rd stringers and insurance salesman. You are operating with incomplete and probably faulty information. You are allowing that incomplete/faulty information to steer you into emotional decisions.

The best case scenario for this team is to have continuity for the first time in years. Alex needs all the snaps, so he can be the best he can be in this offense. Nate Davis will get to watch and learn and throw an awful lot of footballs, but Alex needs the immersion and volume that he can only get as the full time starter. We don't need another year of sham competition taking snaps away from our every down QB. You can't keep changing your quarterbacks and offenses year in and year out and expect consistency.

Your expectations for Davis are too high right now. He may or may not turn out to be good, but there is no reason to force that judgment yet. He was not drafted to be the savior, he was drafted because he was an intriguing project. That project is barely underway, and you wanna throw the QB position back into chaos again. Patience grasshopper.
  • benton45
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Originally posted by jimbagg:
Nope, this is not about Smith at all. And its also not about Shawn Hill. This is about the Nate Davis investment, period.

Look, in the business world, you look for rapid ROI (return on investment). You don't stick an asset in the closet and take it out for a looksee only 2-3 times a year. You put that asset to work. You devote the resources to expedite and maximize the ROI.

Why isn't that happening with Davis? Heck, even myopic major league baseball teams send their raw developmental types to the Caribbean League fo keep learning and developing in the "off-season".

A 5th round pick on a guy who is making just over 300k per year and is intended to be a backup doesn't qualify as an investment on a man who needs to be the focal point of the coaching staff.

Maybe focusing on the huge investment that the Niners made in 05 is a better idea.
Originally posted by NinerGold39:
set-up workout sessions with Donovan McNabb.

he's suppose to, from what I heard on the radio.
Originally posted by Niners99:
this board is unbelievable.

Nate Davis plays decent in the PRESEASON, against 3rd string players, and everyone has him waiting in the wings to be the next star QB.

for all we know he sucks.

Yeah I remember last preseason Josh Johnson did really well for TB, came in and sucked and got replaced by Freeman the rookie. The difference between playing starters and 3rd stringers is HUGE. Heck the difference between Preseason and Regular season is HUGE. Anyone remember a Mr. JT OSullivan?
Originally posted by jones49:
I look forward to seeing him this preseason. He looked good enough last prseason to make me wonder if he could really be something in the NFL.

Originally posted by NorthNiner:
Originally posted by jones49:
I look forward to seeing him this preseason. He looked good enough last prseason to make me wonder if he could really be something in the NFL.


I like the optimism
Originally posted by thaakingd:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
The thing is we haven't invested much into Davis and there are other priorities than developing a late round project QB. Nate is a third stringer barring a disaster,

yep so was kurt warner before he got his chance. He wasn't considered to be anything until he played and showed he could play.

As I remember, he was pretty good in the arena league, which is probably what helped him develop his quick release.
  • GEEK
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The last thing the 49ers need to do is rush a QB on the field to lead the team when that player isn't at all ready from a mental or a physical/technique standpoint.
  • kem99
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Originally posted by aiiyiiyiii:
Originally posted by thojess:
Originally posted by aiiyiiyiii:
Originally posted by NinerFan408:


no we dont need a competition. that just makes the team worse.

Please use a smiley, otherwise someone might think you're serious!

He's right. We need a training camp where our starting QB gets all the reps and comes into the season as prepared as possible for once. Nate Davis was a project pick that the niners are giving plenty of time to develop. It's not like he's gonna come in and out play Alex at this point. Alex is gonna throw 25+ touchdowns in 2010 and probably 10ish interceptions. Davis is not gonna be ready to perform at that level for at least another year or two.

See, I think that's the problem. They choose their starter, then hold this sham "competition" and the non-chosen ones hardly see any snaps. Remember when Shaun Hill ended up the starter, but had to do it without the benefit of practice snaps, because his "arm was sore." and he had to go public to say it really wasn't?

I just can't imagine a scenario where open, honest competition for jobs is bad for the team. If they don't allow it, then sure, Nate won't be ready to perform until his rookie contract is nearly over. Then, he'll go elsewhere and star for another team.

Do I think Nate can outperform Alex in a fair competition? I think there's a good chance of it. I'd like to see him have the chance to make it happen.

That's not really being fair...The competition you are referring to was the Smith-Hill-O'Sullivan competition and the coaches behind that competition are all gone (Nolan and Martz). It also involved an injured Smith and a QB (Hill) that did not fit the new complicated system being run, which O'Sullivan knew and already had experience in. By all accounts at the time, O'Sullivan looked the best in TC.

Last year, Hill won the competition (or at least didn't lose it) and was given the starting job. Smith didn't outplay him in the preseason and it also took some pressure off of Smith by allowing him to sit at the start of the season until the team struggled with Hill at QB.

The Nate Davis fascination reminds me somewhat of the Tim Rattay bandwagon towards the end of Garcia's run. There weren't too many 49er fans that shed any tears about Garcia leaving because they thought there "was a good chance" Rattay could outperform Garcia if given a fair chance. We know how that turned out.

Its funny how people criticize the 49ers for playing Smith too early but then want to "crash course" a 5th round pick with a learning disability from a small school into playing in the NFL. The best thing the 49ers could do for Davis is not put pressure on him to "be the man" and give him another year of development as the #2 or #3 QB. Let him sit like they lit Smith sit last year. If Smith struggles, they can then turn it over to Davis with little to no pressure on him. If Smith flourishes, they can still develop him and then have him push Smith going into 2011.
Well, I guess we're just going to have differences of opinion about how Nate should be handled. Shocking!

Mrgneissguy, thanks for your post about the way Nate took the starting job in college. Very interesting.

However, I don't agree that you'd never see a team in the NFL doing that with their QBs. Tell it to Miami, which was subbing in 3rd round rookie Pat White in clutch situations last year.. or tell it to Bill Walsh, who would pull Steve Deberg in the red zone so that the young Joe Montana could come in and get the TD!

Bottom line for me is, Singletary doesn't WANT a qb controversy. He's got his starter, and all he asks of him is to "manage the game" and "play within the system." God forbid Nate ever sees the field in a real game.. what if he looked pretty good against REAL defenders.. the media would be asking questions.. fans would be screaming for him.. and there goes your nice quiet little scene.
Well, how the hell do you know what they are or aren't doing?

Do you want them to give Davis reps with the 1st team?

Wouldn't that hinder our chances for continuity on offense?

Is it the typical "anybody but Smith" theory?

These questions and more every time I read a thread about Smith vs. ____...

how the hell do you know what they are or aren't doing?

I'm just looking in from the outside like everyone else. Never claimed otherwise.

Do you want them to give Davis reps with the 1st team?

Yes.

Wouldn't that hinder our chances for continuity on offense?

Continuity means 8-8.

Is it the typical "anybody but Smith" theory?

I don't think much of Alex Smith. But Nate looks to me like he could be special.

These questions and more every time I read a thread about Smith vs. ____...

You can expect threads like this as long as you have a QB who's not living up to expectations.
Eh, I should have known better than to start a thread involving the QB position in Ninertalk. It always seems to degrade into Camp A versus Camp B.

I was actually hoping for some more creative suggestions about how to rapidly develop a young QB with no NFLE or Arena League available any longer.

I never advocated that Davis take snaps away from any other Niner QB in OTA's, TC or games. I was aking how he could get more snaps somewhere, anywhere, so that the club could either develop him more quickly or determine that the kid wouldn't make it and get another developmental QB onto the roster. I subscribe to the Walsh notion that there should ALWAYS be one developmental QB on the roster, and that player should be continually progressing, 12 months a year.

I think of things like the KC Royals Baseball Academy, which expedited so many baseball players to MLB with sound fundamentals. I think of Pete Newell's Big Man Camp, which expedited expedite the development of big men in the NBA. I think of the MISL "loaning" Landon Donovan to the English premier soccer league, so that he can improve his skills during the MISL off-season. I think of the Venezuelan and Caribbean leagues (winter ball), where developing baseball players can expedite their development. I think of Jeff Garcia and Doug Flutie honing their game in the CFL. I think of the NFL toay, regarding QB development, and I see.......nothing creative at all.

I also see that the absence of NFLE and the Arena League has left a huge void in the QB development process for NFL QB's. This at a time when the level of starting QB play in the NFL is being played at a very high level on many teams. The NFL, as a league, is being very short-sighted in QB development and the future NFL product will suffer if legitimate QB development is not restored.

I was hoping that perhaps the Niner's enlightened ownership and coaching would recognize this problem, as it pertains to their investment in Davis, and do something about it on their own (without waiting for the entire NFL to get something going). I was trying to brainstorm creative alternatives from the Zone.

I'll go back to my seat now and behave.

[ Edited by jimbagg on Feb 25, 2010 at 17:00:16 ]