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Joe Montana vs. Tom Brady

Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

Oh... I really have to see the reasoning behind this thought.
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by NinerFan1979:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

I'll give you the postseason comment.

But rings shouldn't be what makes the best (insert position here). There's 52 other guys on the team. If 1 or 2 units can't do their job and the rest of the team ain't winning sh*t.

The Colts just set the record for wins in a decade. What's that tell you? He's been doing it with alot less talent than Joe was use to.

Totally disagree. Peyton has had top notch talent for almost all his years in the league. Great WRs, good RBs and a great oline. Peyton is barely ever touched. The problem is, when Peyton has gotten to the playoffs he has had bad performances. Defenses have been able to confuse him. Physically he is more talented (as was Elway) than Joe. But that is only hafl the equation. Joe was clutch and that out weighs everything.

His Oline has been like a revolving door! Joesph Addai isn't really all that good. He make pedestrian WR's look good. See Austin Collie, Pierre Garco and Brandon Stokely.

Yes he has had bad games in the playoffs. Last I checked Joe didn't take us to the Superbowl every year either. If Manning had top 10 dfenses like Brady and Montana has had. He too would have lifted the trophy multiple times.

And how many 1,000 yard rushers did Montana have each year?
Originally posted by Rivers77:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by NinerFan1979:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

I'll give you the postseason comment.

But rings shouldn't be what makes the best (insert position here). There's 52 other guys on the team. If 1 or 2 units can't do their job and the rest of the team ain't winning sh*t.

The Colts just set the record for wins in a decade. What's that tell you? He's been doing it with alot less talent than Joe was use to.

Totally disagree. Peyton has had top notch talent for almost all his years in the league. Great WRs, good RBs and a great oline. Peyton is barely ever touched. The problem is, when Peyton has gotten to the playoffs he has had bad performances. Defenses have been able to confuse him. Physically he is more talented (as was Elway) than Joe. But that is only hafl the equation. Joe was clutch and that out weighs everything.

His Oline has been like a revolving door! Joesph Addai isn't really all that good. He make pedestrian WR's look good. See Austin Collie, Pierre Garco and Brandon Stokely.

Yes he has had bad games in the playoffs. Last I checked Joe didn't take us to the Superbowl every year either. If Manning had top 10 dfenses like Brady and Montana has had. He too would have lifted the trophy multiple times.

And how many 1,000 yard rushers did Montana have each year?

Correct me if I'm wrong but its easier to get to 1,000 due to more games being played now compared to back in the day.
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

I'll give you the postseason comment.

But rings shouldn't be what makes the best (insert position here). There's 52 other guys on the team. If 1 or 2 units can't do their job and the rest of the team ain't winning sh*t.

The Colts just set the record for wins in a decade. What's that tell you? He's been doing it with alot less talent than Joe was use to.

I'm quoting this from the second page, because I'm not about to read all 10

but I agree, I think Peyton Manning is the best ever
One thing about Montana, he was a great QB when needed and he was a great game manager when needed.

Brady used to be a great game manager, but he's lost his way since Moss came onto the team.

Also, he's always had that security blanket: Troy Brown/Wes Welker.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.

Whether you agree with it or not, quarterbacks get judged on Super Bowls as well as their play. It just comes with the territory. When the country does well the President gets the credit, but he also gets the blame when we're in the toilet. Is it fair? Probably not, but it is what it is.

Manning had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Sanders, Freeney, just to name a short few. The Colts have fielded some of the best offensive lines of the decade.

The salary cap theory is lame, because there is a greater disparity in the NFL now than there has ever been. The salary cap was supposed to alleviate these problems, yet year in and year out the same teams are winners. The Colts, Steeelers, Broncos, and Patriots have won 7 out of the last 11 Super Bowls. Salary Cap? Really?
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Rivers77:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by NinerFan1979:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

I'll give you the postseason comment.

But rings shouldn't be what makes the best (insert position here). There's 52 other guys on the team. If 1 or 2 units can't do their job and the rest of the team ain't winning sh*t.

The Colts just set the record for wins in a decade. What's that tell you? He's been doing it with alot less talent than Joe was use to.

Totally disagree. Peyton has had top notch talent for almost all his years in the league. Great WRs, good RBs and a great oline. Peyton is barely ever touched. The problem is, when Peyton has gotten to the playoffs he has had bad performances. Defenses have been able to confuse him. Physically he is more talented (as was Elway) than Joe. But that is only hafl the equation. Joe was clutch and that out weighs everything.

His Oline has been like a revolving door! Joesph Addai isn't really all that good. He make pedestrian WR's look good. See Austin Collie, Pierre Garco and Brandon Stokely.

Yes he has had bad games in the playoffs. Last I checked Joe didn't take us to the Superbowl every year either. If Manning had top 10 dfenses like Brady and Montana has had. He too would have lifted the trophy multiple times.

And how many 1,000 yard rushers did Montana have each year?

Correct me if I'm wrong but its easier to get to 1,000 due to more games being played now compared to back in the day.

I believe the 16 game schedule started aruond 1978.
Originally posted by Rivers77:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.

Whether you agree with it or not, quarterbacks get judged on Super Bowls as well as their play. It just comes with the territory. When the country does well the President gets the credit, but he also gets the blame when we're in the toilet. Is it fair? Probably not, but it is what it is.

Manning had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Sanders, Freeney, just to name a short few. The Colts have fielded some of the best offensive lines of the decade.

The salary cap theory is lame, because there is a greater disparity in the NFL now than there has ever been. The salary cap was supposed to alleviate these problems, yet year in and year out the same teams are winners. The Colts, Steeelers, Broncos, and Patriots have won 7 out of the last 11 Super Bowls. Salary Cap? Really?

Salary Cap is just another system - there will be those who take advantage of it and others who do not. Football still comes down to talent evaluation, coaching/development and scheming/preparation. The only that's changed is how that talent is acquired. You can still maintain a great team, you just have to be even more effective in those areas than before because the contract cycle for developing a player is a lot shorter.

Salary cap really doesn't foster parity as much as the non-salary cap era. Teams that make poor decisions still pay for poor decisions. The reason why those teams are dominant is because they have great organizations who hire great coaches that consistently make good personnel decisions.

The 49ers used this formula during their 17 years of dominance.

[ Edited by NinerGM on Jan 11, 2010 at 10:44:35 ]
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by blunt_probe:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.
What a load of crock. You guys make it sound like Manning has nothing and isn't playing in a more pass friendly era. The real reason everyone says Montana is because of how clutch he was. Ask yourself this. One drive to win it at all. Who do you choose: Manning or Montana? /discussion

People forget how many times Joe Montana DID NOT complete the comeback and they are also oblivious to how often Peyton Manning has brought his team back to win games. Aside from "The Catch" and the Super Bowl drive, most people can't even name a time when Joe Montana did his magic. I'm not saying Montana was not the most clutch QB of all time, I believe he is, but Peyton Manning is no slouch in that category or any other category pertaining to quarterbacking.

I really wouldn't expect anyone else here, in a 49ers fan forum, to acknowledge anyone other than Joe Montana as the greatest QB of all time, but people are really overlooking how great Peyton Manning really is.

Don't forget the great come back against the Saints.

And I'm not denying that Manning is great. I'm just saying he isn't the greatest of all time.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Rivers77:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.

Whether you agree with it or not, quarterbacks get judged on Super Bowls as well as their play. It just comes with the territory. When the country does well the President gets the credit, but he also gets the blame when we're in the toilet. Is it fair? Probably not, but it is what it is.

Manning had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Sanders, Freeney, just to name a short few. The Colts have fielded some of the best offensive lines of the decade.

The salary cap theory is lame, because there is a greater disparity in the NFL now than there has ever been. The salary cap was supposed to alleviate these problems, yet year in and year out the same teams are winners. The Colts, Steeelers, Broncos, and Patriots have won 7 out of the last 11 Super Bowls. Salary Cap? Really?

Salary Cap is just another system - there will be those who take advantage of it and others who do not. Football still comes down to talent evaluation, coaching/development and scheming/preparation. The only that's changed is how that talent is acquired. You can still maintain a great team, you just have to be even more effective in those areas than before because the contract cycle for developing a player is a lot shorter.

Salary cap really doesn't foster parity as much as the non-salary cap era. Teams that make poor decisions still pay for poor decisions. The reason why those teams are dominant is because they have great organizations who hire great coaches that consistently make good personnel decisions.

The 49ers used this formula during their 17 years of dominance.

One could say that Walsh would have thrived with Free Agency as he always had an ability to acquire players that other teams over look and use them to maximize their ability.
I saw Joe Montana play his share of bad playoff games. He's human
I'll start on the Brady side of the argument. I have always thought that he was more a product of the system than an individually great QB. Don't get me wrong, I still think he is/was a damn fine QB. But there is a big difference between that and great. And I’ll use last year…the year he didn’t play for my argument. The Pats, without their “all-time great” QB finished with 11 wins with Matt Cassell as their QB. And what did Cassell do in KC?? Brady is good, but I don’t think he would be half as good on another team.

As for Manning being clutch, just talk to a Tampa Bay fan. Fourth quarter drive? Try putting together enough drives in the final four minutes to overcome a 21 point deficit. Personally, I don’t think Manning necessarily has the most physical talent or skills of the top QBs today, much less of all time. But he plays the position differently than any other QB, in that it’s his knowledge and ability to read defenses that makes him one of the best. He has struggled in the playoffs, typically with 3-4 teams that he has never seen before, or seen very little. But once he’s faced a team a few times, where he can build his notes on them, he beats them. No other QB has had the ability to put his team in a better position to succeed from play to play than Manning has.

Montana, I'd say probably the best QB physically. He had great instinct, and the nerves to handle late game pressure probably better than anyone.

Brady = best system (until recently  )
Manning = Best strategist
Montana = Best physically/instinctually

Which one is the best overall…total package?? I wouldn’t even begin to try to say.

Though, I don't think any other QB has ever won 4 MVP awards

[ Edited by mrgneissguy on Jan 11, 2010 at 10:52:26 ]
Originally posted by teeohh:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

I'll give you the postseason comment.

But rings shouldn't be what makes the best (insert position here). There's 52 other guys on the team. If 1 or 2 units can't do their job and the rest of the team ain't winning sh*t.

The Colts just set the record for wins in a decade. What's that tell you? He's been doing it with alot less talent than Joe was use to.

I'm quoting this from the second page, because I'm not about to read all 10

but I agree, I think Peyton Manning is the best ever

You guys should be banned for such blasphemy. How old are you? Did you ever watch Joe in his prime. I admit when it comes to physical skills Peyton is better (heck, lots of players had better physical skills than Joe). But Joe was clutch. He would win you the game if you needed him to. Manning has been confused way too often in his career in the playoffs to be considered the best. Even his SB MVP, I mean, his numbers were nothing great. They just gave him the MVP cause they always give it to the QB.
Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

are you young ? that could be an excuse ...
Did you watch the 1987 DP game vs vikes ? No ? take a look and then try to discuss in your own thread
Or maybe the 1985 WC or 1986 DP vs giants : 3 points scored both times
Do you judge Montana on those three games to declare he's worst than Brady. I hope not. If you don't then be fair with brady
End point
Joe Montana

Career QB rating: 92.8
Playoff Career QB rating: 95.5
Playoff Record: 16-7

Peyton Manning

Career QB rating: 95.3
Playoff Career QB rating: 85.0
Playoff Record: 7-8

Just sayin.

I don't even think there is a comparison here. When it's time for the big boys to play, Montana shined. There was something magical about Joe Montana. He not only defeated, but demolished 2 hall of fame quarterbacks in super bowls and had the come from behind 92 yard drive against the bengals in Super Bowl 23.

At the end of the day I'll take the guy who elevates his play EVEN higher when it counts.

Remember it well, then... this night, this
great victory. So that in the years ahead, you can say, I was
there that night, with Arthur, the King! For it is the doom of men
that they forget.

Merlin~Excalibur 1981