Joe Montana vs. Tom Brady

Montana
Young
Brady
Manning

Originally posted by midrdan:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Montana
NFL RANK: 4
FAN RANK: 2
#1 ranked QB

BRADY
NFL RANK: 21
FAN RANK: 20
#6 QB

Its clear who is the all time best QB. Even in today's era with Brady still playing, the fans and the NFL list Montana as the #1 greatest QB and #4 greatest player of all time.

Brady ranks as the 6th best QB behind Manning and Favre etc...

If Manning can be ranked higher and have less super bowls you can tell the Spygate, tuck rule, and Vinnaterri all have a factor in the votes. A lot of people just won't give credit to cheaters IMO.

Brady is great, but there have been better.

Don't forget, Montana is a legend at Notre Dame. Watch his old footage and tell me he's not the best.

http://top100.nfl.com/

The fact that Brady ranks behind Favre nullifies the validity of those rankings.

Not really ... the case AGAINST Tom Brady

1. His first SB was won in spite of his performance, not because of it. His team made it to the AFC Championship Game that year because of the Tuck Rule and Vinatieri's clutch kicks in the snow. Brady didn't even play in the AFC Championship Game that year - Bledsoe beat Pittsburgh at Pittsburgh. In the SB, Vinatieri kicked the game winning FG and the defense played out of its mind. Brady threw for 120 yards.

Brady threw for 312 yards in horrible conditions against the Raiders and brought them back from 10 pts down. In the SB he was the MVP and drove his team down
the field in last 2 minutes to even set up the field goal by Vinateri

2. His second SB came against the Jake Delhomme-led Panthers and the victory was sealed by another Vinatieri FG.

Hmmm. I guess the fact that he threw for 354 yards and 3 tds should be ignored? Also the fact that he lead the team down once again in the final minute to set up the winning field goal.. Oh ya.. MVP of SB again.

3. He lost a super bowl. To a team quarterbacked by Eli Manning.
I guess QB's have never lost big games? Montana lost an NFC Title Game to Jeff Hostetler for christ sake.

4. Since Adam Vinatieri left NE, the Patriots have gone 4-5 in the playoffs.
Are you saying that Vinateri was the MVP of all those teams then? I dont understand your point.

5. In Brady's two most-prolific seasons (2007 and 2010) he will win MVP of the regular season only to be bounced in the playoffs.

Oh.. you mean like Favre in 95 and 97?????


Versus ... The case FOR Bret Favre (not being the GOAT, just better than Brady)

1. Holds every significant career passing record.
Sure.. he played forever. He also has the most interceptions and fumbles by a QB

2. Holds record for most consecutive games played.
Wrong. However, he does have that for a QB

3. 1-1 in the SB ... his loss came against John Elway's Broncos.
So Brady is 3-1 in SBs and Favre is 1-1 and this is a plus for Favre? LOL

4. Played in an era where two franchises (Cowboys and 49ers) had teams that rank among the greatest of all time and in that era played in 4 Championship Games and 2 SBs.

And he lost 1/2 his NFC title games and 1/2 his SB's

5. No other offensive player on any of his best teams will make the HOF. He threw to good WRs, not HOFers like Rice, Irvin, or Randy Moss.

Interesting comment. I dont remember Randy Moss winning any SB's with the Pats. Instead Brady made guys like Deion Branch, Troy Brown, David Patten, David Givens effective. I dont remember any offensive skill player on any SB winning team for Brady that will be in HOF. So.. if you want to use this for Favre then you have to use it for Brady

So yeah, I can see the case being made that Favre is better than Brady.

Bottom line.. Brady has been the more successful, the more dependable, and simply the better QB for his career. He didnt throw the picks when you least could afford them like Favre. He is a 2 time SB MVP and 3 time SB champ. Hell.. Favre only was 14-27 in SB 31 and couldnt even beat out a kick returner for the MVP. LOL

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by midrdan:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Montana
NFL RANK: 4
FAN RANK: 2
#1 ranked QB

BRADY
NFL RANK: 21
FAN RANK: 20
#6 QB

Its clear who is the all time best QB. Even in today's era with Brady still playing, the fans and the NFL list Montana as the #1 greatest QB and #4 greatest player of all time.

Brady ranks as the 6th best QB behind Manning and Favre etc...

If Manning can be ranked higher and have less super bowls you can tell the Spygate, tuck rule, and Vinnaterri all have a factor in the votes. A lot of people just won't give credit to cheaters IMO.

Brady is great, but there have been better.

Don't forget, Montana is a legend at Notre Dame. Watch his old footage and tell me he's not the best.

http://top100.nfl.com/

The fact that Brady ranks behind Favre nullifies the validity of those rankings.

Not really ... the case AGAINST Tom Brady

1. His first SB was won in spite of his performance, not because of it. His team made it to the AFC Championship Game that year because of the Tuck Rule and Vinatieri's clutch kicks in the snow. Brady didn't even play in the AFC Championship Game that year - Bledsoe beat Pittsburgh at Pittsburgh. In the SB, Vinatieri kicked the game winning FG and the defense played out of its mind. Brady threw for 120 yards.

Brady threw for 312 yards in horrible conditions against the Raiders and brought them back from 10 pts down. In the SB he was the MVP and drove his team down
the field in last 2 minutes to even set up the field goal by Vinateri

2. His second SB came against the Jake Delhomme-led Panthers and the victory was sealed by another Vinatieri FG.

Hmmm. I guess the fact that he threw for 354 yards and 3 tds should be ignored? Also the fact that he lead the team down once again in the final minute to set up the winning field goal.. Oh ya.. MVP of SB again.

3. He lost a super bowl. To a team quarterbacked by Eli Manning.
I guess QB's have never lost big games? Montana lost an NFC Title Game to Jeff Hostetler for christ sake.

4. Since Adam Vinatieri left NE, the Patriots have gone 4-5 in the playoffs.
Are you saying that Vinateri was the MVP of all those teams then? I dont understand your point.

5. In Brady's two most-prolific seasons (2007 and 2010) he will win MVP of the regular season only to be bounced in the playoffs.

Oh.. you mean like Favre in 95 and 97?????


Versus ... The case FOR Bret Favre (not being the GOAT, just better than Brady)

1. Holds every significant career passing record.
Sure.. he played forever. He also has the most interceptions and fumbles by a QB

2. Holds record for most consecutive games played.
Wrong. However, he does have that for a QB

3. 1-1 in the SB ... his loss came against John Elway's Broncos.
So Brady is 3-1 in SBs and Favre is 1-1 and this is a plus for Favre? LOL

4. Played in an era where two franchises (Cowboys and 49ers) had teams that rank among the greatest of all time and in that era played in 4 Championship Games and 2 SBs.

And he lost 1/2 his NFC title games and 1/2 his SB's

5. No other offensive player on any of his best teams will make the HOF. He threw to good WRs, not HOFers like Rice, Irvin, or Randy Moss.

Interesting comment. I dont remember Randy Moss winning any SB's with the Pats. Instead Brady made guys like Deion Branch, Troy Brown, David Patten, David Givens effective. I dont remember any offensive skill player on any SB winning team for Brady that will be in HOF. So.. if you want to use this for Favre then you have to use it for Brady

So yeah, I can see the case being made that Favre is better than Brady.

Bottom line.. Brady has been the more successful, the more dependable, and simply the better QB for his career. He didnt throw the picks when you least could afford them like Favre. He is a 2 time SB MVP and 3 time SB champ. Hell.. Favre only was 14-27 in SB 31 and couldnt even beat out a kick returner for the MVP. LOL

While I agree with you Brady has thrown many picks when you can least afford them, at the end of important games. He's just been lucky enough that the Patroits ended up getting the ball back on a number of occasions with enough time to score another 3 points and win. Brady is the only QB that I know of to throw a pick while losing in a playoff game and get the ball back on the same play and even gain yardage on the play (against San Diego in 2007). He threw three picks in the game, somehow one of them in the 4th quarter netted positive yardage and a 1st down, but they still won. No one remembers anything but the W.

Originally posted by midrdan:

Originally posted by xx49erfanxx:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

Na , Peyton needs to win some more SB before you can say that . Peyton stinks it up in the playoffs way to much . I would say Brady before Peyton .

Yeah ... Manning???? He's 9-10 in the post season. He's lost a super bowl. He isn't even the best QB of the decade. Manning is the most overrated player in football history, IMO. His super bowl victory came against Rex Grossman for chrissake!

Did Steve Young just beat Stan Humphries in his SB? LOL

There is NO question that Joe Montana hands down is the best QB, if the competition is between Montana & Brady.

Brady, on a good day, perhaps his best day, could sniff Joe's jock, after four quarters of football!

Montana never need it Adam Vinatieri to win the game for him nuff said.

Joe Montana played in an age where the QB was not protected by the league. he faced some of the roughest defenses in NFL history, and wasnt given the luxury Tom Brady and the new age QB's have gotten. NFL defenses are afraid to go all out after the QB because of the hefty fines.

Montana has always been, and will always be better than Tom Brady. Crunch time in the Super Bowl, Montana drove his team the length of the field for a TD with 2 mins left, or he just blew out the AFC Champion like they were a last place team. Brady got his team in long field goal range and called on the kicker.

/Thread

Hands down it's Montana-right now but ladies and gentlemen,Brady has won 3 Superbowls,is currently active and in the prime of his career so this comparison is irrelevant at this time.

Originally posted by Giggiddy:
Joe Montana has never lost a superbowl.

End of conversation.

THIS

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by midrdan:

Originally posted by xx49erfanxx:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

Na , Peyton needs to win some more SB before you can say that . Peyton stinks it up in the playoffs way to much . I would say Brady before Peyton .

Yeah ... Manning???? He's 9-10 in the post season. He's lost a super bowl. He isn't even the best QB of the decade. Manning is the most overrated player in football history, IMO. His super bowl victory came against Rex Grossman for chrissake!

So you look at the Colts playoff record since Manning has been there and automatically put that on Manning?

P.S. Their Superbowl win came against the Bears, not Rex Grossman.

P.P.S. Brady is very good, but even so he's the most over-rated player in the NFL right now.

Yes, I automatically put the team's win loss record on the shoulders of the most important player on that team. Perhaps it's unfair, but that's how history judges QBs - on their wins and losses.

I realize their win came against the Bears. But considering that the league is driven by QB play, the Bears season in 2006 was somewhat of an anomaly. My point being, this wasn't Montana vs. Marino or Elway, or Aikman vs. Kelly, or even Roethlisberger vs. Warner. A team with a solid QB, read New Orleans last year, beats the Colts.

And yes, Brady is the most overrated QB over the past 20 years.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by midrdan:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Montana
NFL RANK: 4
FAN RANK: 2
#1 ranked QB

BRADY
NFL RANK: 21
FAN RANK: 20
#6 QB

Its clear who is the all time best QB. Even in today's era with Brady still playing, the fans and the NFL list Montana as the #1 greatest QB and #4 greatest player of all time.

Brady ranks as the 6th best QB behind Manning and Favre etc...

If Manning can be ranked higher and have less super bowls you can tell the Spygate, tuck rule, and Vinnaterri all have a factor in the votes. A lot of people just won't give credit to cheaters IMO.

Brady is great, but there have been better.

Don't forget, Montana is a legend at Notre Dame. Watch his old footage and tell me he's not the best.

http://top100.nfl.com/

The fact that Brady ranks behind Favre nullifies the validity of those rankings.

Not really ... the case AGAINST Tom Brady

1. His first SB was won in spite of his performance, not because of it. His team made it to the AFC Championship Game that year because of the Tuck Rule and Vinatieri's clutch kicks in the snow. Brady didn't even play in the AFC Championship Game that year - Bledsoe beat Pittsburgh at Pittsburgh. In the SB, Vinatieri kicked the game winning FG and the defense played out of its mind. Brady threw for 120 yards.

Brady threw for 312 yards in horrible conditions against the Raiders and brought them back from 10 pts down. In the SB he was the MVP and drove his team down
the field in last 2 minutes to even set up the field goal by Vinateri

2. His second SB came against the Jake Delhomme-led Panthers and the victory was sealed by another Vinatieri FG.

Hmmm. I guess the fact that he threw for 354 yards and 3 tds should be ignored? Also the fact that he lead the team down once again in the final minute to set up the winning field goal.. Oh ya.. MVP of SB again.

3. He lost a super bowl. To a team quarterbacked by Eli Manning.
I guess QB's have never lost big games? Montana lost an NFC Title Game to Jeff Hostetler for christ sake.

4. Since Adam Vinatieri left NE, the Patriots have gone 4-5 in the playoffs.
Are you saying that Vinateri was the MVP of all those teams then? I dont understand your point.

5. In Brady's two most-prolific seasons (2007 and 2010) he will win MVP of the regular season only to be bounced in the playoffs.

Oh.. you mean like Favre in 95 and 97?????


Versus ... The case FOR Bret Favre (not being the GOAT, just better than Brady)

1. Holds every significant career passing record.
Sure.. he played forever. He also has the most interceptions and fumbles by a QB

2. Holds record for most consecutive games played.
Wrong. However, he does have that for a QB

3. 1-1 in the SB ... his loss came against John Elway's Broncos.
So Brady is 3-1 in SBs and Favre is 1-1 and this is a plus for Favre? LOL

4. Played in an era where two franchises (Cowboys and 49ers) had teams that rank among the greatest of all time and in that era played in 4 Championship Games and 2 SBs.

And he lost 1/2 his NFC title games and 1/2 his SB's

5. No other offensive player on any of his best teams will make the HOF. He threw to good WRs, not HOFers like Rice, Irvin, or Randy Moss.

Interesting comment. I dont remember Randy Moss winning any SB's with the Pats. Instead Brady made guys like Deion Branch, Troy Brown, David Patten, David Givens effective. I dont remember any offensive skill player on any SB winning team for Brady that will be in HOF. So.. if you want to use this for Favre then you have to use it for Brady

So yeah, I can see the case being made that Favre is better than Brady.

Bottom line.. Brady has been the more successful, the more dependable, and simply the better QB for his career. He didnt throw the picks when you least could afford them like Favre. He is a 2 time SB MVP and 3 time SB champ. Hell.. Favre only was 14-27 in SB 31 and couldnt even beat out a kick returner for the MVP. LOL

Your points are valid ... I wasn't saying that Favre was better than Brady, however those are the cases that I would imagine the voters considered when ranking the players. The bottom line is that the perception of Brady is that he is a very good QB but does not have a "signature moment" - his victories were sealed by perhaps the greatest clutch kicker in NFL history. If Vinatieri misses any of those field goals and Brady all of sudden becomes Jim Kelly. Conversely, Brett Favre is No. 1 in virtually every measurable statistic and has won a SB. His loss came to another HOF QB, thus the perception being that one of the greatest to ever play had to lose that game. It happened to be Favre's team that lost. I'm not saying that Favre should be rated higher than Brady ... but I can see why some would put him there.

And with respect to the comments about HOF players ... the point I was making is that Favre's career statistics are going to be perceived to be more impressive than perhaps they should because he never played with a HOF receiver. Brady's most-spectacular year (statistically) was 2007 when he was throwing bombs to a HOF receiver.

To me, Brady is Phil Simms. A very good, very accurate QB that happens to play for a team that has had dominant defensive coaching, schemes, and players. I believe NE will send far more players to the HOF than Green Bay will (for this era) but the majority of them will be on the defensive side of the ball.

Originally posted by midrdan:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by midrdan:

Originally posted by xx49erfanxx:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

Na , Peyton needs to win some more SB before you can say that . Peyton stinks it up in the playoffs way to much . I would say Brady before Peyton .

Yeah ... Manning???? He's 9-10 in the post season. He's lost a super bowl. He isn't even the best QB of the decade. Manning is the most overrated player in football history, IMO. His super bowl victory came against Rex Grossman for chrissake!

So you look at the Colts playoff record since Manning has been there and automatically put that on Manning?

P.S. Their Superbowl win came against the Bears, not Rex Grossman.

P.P.S. Brady is very good, but even so he's the most over-rated player in the NFL right now.

Yes, I automatically put the team's win loss record on the shoulders of the most important player on that team. Perhaps it's unfair, but that's how history judges QBs - on their wins and losses.

Who cares if it's fair to do so? The question is how wise it is (hint: not very). Wins and losses are not even a stat the NFL keeps for players, even a QB. Tennis players? Yes? Starting pitchers even? Yes (even though that stat can be misleading). But a quarterback? Nope. And there's a good reason for that.

Originally posted by midrdan:
I realize their win came against the Bears. But considering that the league is driven by QB play, the Bears season in 2006 was somewhat of an anomaly. My point being, this wasn't Montana vs. Marino or Elway, or Aikman vs. Kelly, or even Roethlisberger vs. Warner. A team with a solid QB, read New Orleans last year, beats the Colts.

Not one of those Super Bowls were QB vs QB.

I read an article on yahoo Nfl, the other day. 'It was Brady is no Montana'. The writer brought up this point. "The second brady could not deliver the patriots a comeback victory against the Giants in the super bowl and the clock ticked 00:00 is the second The Montana and Brady debate was smashed"! Montana vs Brady winner is Montana! this thread is pointless b'cause we already know who the greater is