The Makeup of an Offensive Line

Originally posted by Gavintech:
OL coach = 100%. Duh.

do you really believe that?

Bear in mind, there are people who swear if you get a great OL coach you never have to spend a top pick on linemen again because they will mold just about anyone into shape.

I don't remember the Niners spending too many top picks on OL when we have the Late Great Bob Mcittrick(sp?)

Originally posted by tohara3:
We gotta figure out what kinda identity we want on offense & go in that direction.

so do you believe the System should have more than 5% importance?

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Gavintech:
OL coach = 100%. Duh.

do you really believe that?

No. I don't believe that at all. But it seems like that's what everyone around here thinks.


I think an NFL OL coach makes 10%, MAYBE 15%, of the equation at the most.

Originally posted by danimal:
We all know our O-Line Play needs to improve. Lets see if we can come up with some kind of consensus about how to accomplish that. Or at least see if we can agree on what makes up a good line.

Here is my take

45% Overall talent of our linemen. D, 2-3 of our starters simply need to be replaced
25%OL Coach. I give our guy an F-
20% Skill Positions. I give our QB,RB,WR,TE players an overall B
5% System matches strengths. C, is Baas only a mauler?, can we only run shotgun?
5% Chemistry and stability. C, most of our starters have played together for awhile...but identity and OC keeps changing

So unfortunately, the areas where we are weakest also happens to be most vital. I think we need a new OL Coach and to straight up replace at least 2 guys. Heitmann and Snyder would be my vote.

Now because of this changes we may take a hit in the chemistry dept, but the overall net effect could still be positive. Sing and Raye need to settle on some kind of identity. OR, we need to get some Balanced linemen, no matter how great of a mauler, or how great of a pass protector, we should pass on anyone who can't do both satisfactorily. And the new OL coach should have experience in the identity we will commit to

Zone consensus Action items

Fire Foerster.
Replace with ?
New ROT.

Get a OT in the draft in the first round Right or Left.

Hire Cable when Al Davis melts down and fires him. Reunite Cable and Rathman and look for an upgrade for depth at C or G in the later rounds or free agency.

Just hope that Cable gets fired even though he does not deserve it.

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Gavintech:
OL coach = 100%. Duh.

do you really believe that?

Bear in mind, there are people who swear if you get a great OL coach ...


I don't remember the Niners spending too many top picks on OL when we have the Late Great Bob Mcittrick(sp?)

McKittrick ... yeah, but those are over.

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Gavintech:
OL coach = 100%. Duh.

do you really believe that?

No. I don't believe that at all. But it seems like that's what everyone around here thinks.


I think an NFL OL coach makes 10%, MAYBE 15%, of the equation at the most.

Gotcha. If more people post the same I will change the OP which is suppose to represent the consensus. But as it seems right now, most people think the OL Coach is at least 25% of the equation

35% Talent. We obviously need an infusion of talent at two positions minimum.
15% Intelligence/Football I.Q. Top flight o-linemen need to be very very smart dudes.
20% OL Coach. We can do much better that what we've got.
15% System matches strengths.
10% Chemistry and stability.
5% Skill Positions. I think our skill positions are set to take off with a stable o-line


So the offseason shopping list must include
1 Ea: New Coach
1 Ea: Right Tackle
1 Ea: Left or Right Guard

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
35% Talent. We obviously need an infusion of talent at two positions minimum.
15% Intelligence/Football I.Q. Top flight o-linemen need to be very very smart dudes.
20% OL Coach. We can do much better that what we've got.
15% System matches strengths.
10% Chemistry and stability.
5% Skill Positions. I think our skill positions are set to take off with a stable o-line


So the offseason shopping list must include
1 Ea: New Coach
1 Ea: Right Tackle
1 Ea: Left or Right Guard

great post. I am going to make a new category for IQ as you suggested.

What grade would you give our 5 guys collective football IQ right now?

[ Edited by danimal on Jan 6, 2010 at 16:38:29 ]

OL involves SO much technique and Game Plan strategy week to week that the Coach holds a lot of weight.

Originally posted by Joecool:
OL involves SO much technique and Game Plan strategy week to week that the Coach holds a lot of weight.

if you think I should give more weight to the coach. Which category should I take some from?

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
35% Talent. We obviously need an infusion of talent at two positions minimum.
15% Intelligence/Football I.Q. Top flight o-linemen need to be very very smart dudes.
20% OL Coach. We can do much better that what we've got.
15% System matches strengths.
10% Chemistry and stability.
5% Skill Positions. I think our skill positions are set to take off with a stable o-line


So the offseason shopping list must include
1 Ea: New Coach
1 Ea: Right Tackle
1 Ea: Left or Right Guard

great post. I am going to make a new category for IQ as you suggested.

What grade would you give our 5 guys collective football IQ right now?

Based on results I'd say the IQ is average at best. It seems to me that a unit with a collectively high I.Q. would be able to perform at a higher level even in spite of below average coaching.

i think cable may get fired cause what he said about russel it all depends if davis still likes and has faith in russel now and if he is to come here we have to name him OL coach and assistant coach otherwise i dont see how he will become from a HC(imo he was acually pretty good) to OL coach

Heit to go, Baas to stay!

Good grief.

Originally posted by English:
Heit to go, Baas to stay!

Good grief.

Well that is really not what this thread is suppose to be about, so I toook it out of my post.

Heit is like Ulbrich and Derick Smith. Every off season cool headed cats like yourself call me crazy for calling for their heads. Heitmann has done just enough to keep his role as a clear contributor on a poor offense.

So, from that point of view Heit should go before Baas. Because he has been a part of the problem longer. Now you can argue all you want that Heit is not a cause of the problem. But, by being our starting Center during a decade of ineptitude, he is a PART of the problem.

Just on process of chronological elimination Heitmann is a candidate to get axed, at least considered for it.

We suck in 2009
We sucked in 2005

Who is the only person left in the O-Line that has been a part of both failed units?

Eric Heitmann.

Again, I have had this same debate with many with Ulbrich and Derek back in the day. And now here we are with WIllis and Spikes.

But yeah, Good grief

Ok, I'll join in. This seems like a fun debate.

All of this is MO, although I don't think there's a clear-cut right or wrong answer.

For a good line, it takes:
35% Chemistry and stability.
25% Overall talent of our linemen.
15% Intelligence of our linemen
15% OL Coach.
10% System matches strengths.

My reasoning

1. I regard chemistry as the very biggest factor towards how a line performs. Playing offensive line is predicated on communication. This communication and trust is only developed through playing together and gaining experience as a unit. I don't think it's necessary to have multiple probowlers to have a successful line.

2. Of course, it's quite difficult to succeed without individual talent. If you don't have talented lineman individually, you usually have to somehow compensate through either intelligence, work ethic, etc. But nothing comes close to talent (other than communication), in terms of making a successful line or a successful lineman.

3. Intelligence of lineman and the O-line coach go hand in hand which is why I gave them an equal percentage. No use in having an o-line coach who can teach creative schemes if your line has less than 3 collective brain cells. In the same way, it's no use having an intelligent line if you've got an dumbo of a coach who cannot utilize the talent properly.

4. For "system matches strengths", I feel that a good line coach can alter blocking schemes to fit the opponent and the talent of the line.

-9fA