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WR speed and our 2nd and 3rd spot

Crabtree is going to be the real deal. Already he is doing a great job against #1 cb's. Morgan has talent and seems to be an average #2 wr with not that much speed.

Hill and Jones Both timed in the 4.3's in the 40 but on the field thay are slower. I actually think Hill could easily be our 2nd wr. But when we say we need speed at wr....why aren't Hill or Jones getting it done? They are both very fast...at least 4.4 speed, they either can't get open or our OL can't block long enough for our QB to get them the ball or for the wr's to get open.

I think it's both the OL and the wr's fault with a little blame on the qb.

Davis, Gore and Crabtree are great weapons, but our #2 and #3 spots should be Morgan and Hill. If Hill doesn't show ability to get open downfield, then we need to try something else because Hill nor Jones have not been getting their fair chances to get on the feild.

What do you think about our wr speed at the #3 position between Hill and Jones and who do you think should start at the #2, 3 spots? I think we do have the speed, just not Crabtree and Morgan
We really need to take more shots down the field!
Member Milestone: This is post number 400 for BigDaddy.
Not the WR fault. Everytime I've seen the ball pushed downfield it's been underthrown or overthrown, or off target completely.
I think you guys tend to over exaggerate what speed means on the field. In a way, you already answered your own question. Hill and Jones are probably two of the fastest guys on the team. But straight line speed doesn't mean much in the NFL.

Ability to get open does. After that it's ability to catch. I've watched every Niner game this season and IMO, I don't think either is the issue with them. They just haven't played very much is all. I say come training camp, let Morgan, Hill & Jones battle it out for the #2 and #3 spots. Morgan has done an alright job as number 2, but not well enough to where I'd say he shouldn't be challenged for his spot.

And should you feel like you need an example in the whole speed vs ability argument, just look at Crabtree. On paper, he's probably only faster than Battle.

But the boy has sick hands and is consistently able to get open.
Originally posted by baltien:
I think you guys tend to over exaggerate what speed means on the field. In a way, you already answered your own question. Hill and Jones are probably two of the fastest guys on the team. But straight line speed doesn't mean much in the NFL.

Ability to get open does. After that it's ability to catch. I've watched every Niner game this season and IMO, I don't think either is the issue with them. They just haven't played very much is all. I say come training camp, let Morgan, Hill & Jones battle it out for the #2 and #3 spots. Morgan has done an alright job as number 2, but not well enough to where I'd say he shouldn't be challenged for his spot.

And should you feel like you need an example in the whole speed vs ability argument, just look at Crabtree. On paper, he's probably only faster than Battle.

But the boy has sick hands and is consistently able to get open.

And let's not forget Jerry was no speed burner and look at what he did come gameday.
Right now the #2 spot belongs to D. Walker primarily because of his versatility.
Originally posted by tohara3:
We really need to take more shots down the field!

we actually take a lot of shots down field. Alex over throws them, or the wr's drop them. (not an alex hater)

The bad part about our "shots down the field" is the following Offensive drive.

1st down We run from the I-Form up the middle for no gain.
2nd down run the same iform play the opposite direction gain of two
3rd down we do a bubble screen for a loss of two yards.
[ Edited by unst4bl3 on Jan 1, 2010 at 3:14 PM ]
Originally posted by BigDaddy:
Not the WR fault. Everytime I've seen the ball pushed downfield it's been underthrown or overthrown, or off target completely.

hard to know if thats on the QB, WR or both without knowing the play. You are assuming that the WRs always run the route properly, which is not always the case.
the misconception of deep threat type receivers, is in fact speed being the sole determining factor....

a fact is, there aren't too many receivers in the league that are faster than the average cornerback, the two primary causes of a corner getting beat are being risk takers like Samuel either trying to jump routes, bait quarterbacks a little too much or pressing guys when they dont have the fastest hip turns, like Clements...guys like desean jackson are getting these big plays off of speed for the exact same reasons steve smith USED to do it, the corner simply underestimates the speed and isnt prepared for it. once it becomes better known around the league of how fast these guys, you'll notice those types of plays tend to disappear...

guys who are able to make those explosive play's throughout their career are the crafty guys, who know how to bait the corner into making these mistakes...and to put it plainly, there arent many skill position guys in the league period that are going to be caught from behind, there simply isn't enough field...
[ Edited by MaliCali on Jan 1, 2010 at 4:01 PM ]
Originally posted by baltien:
I think you guys tend to over exaggerate what speed means on the field. In a way, you already answered your own question. Hill and Jones are probably two of the fastest guys on the team. But straight line speed doesn't mean much in the NFL.

Ability to get open does. After that it's ability to catch. I've watched every Niner game this season and IMO, I don't think either is the issue with them. They just haven't played very much is all. I say come training camp, let Morgan, Hill & Jones battle it out for the #2 and #3 spots. Morgan has done an alright job as number 2, but not well enough to where I'd say he shouldn't be challenged for his spot.

And should you feel like you need an example in the whole speed vs ability argument, just look at Crabtree. On paper, he's probably only faster than Battle.

But the boy has sick hands and is consistently able to get open.

Haha I feel like crabtree is probably a little bit faster than that...
I think we have a good core of young receivers that will only get get better. Crabs is #1 WR, Morgan #2, and Jones/Hill #3. I would love to draft a speed guy that can cut on a dime. That way he can be great at returning KR/PR and also stretch the field on offense. Wait we had our chance at D Jackson...nice pick Scotty, lucky Crabs was a no brainer huh.

If you can have a vertical guy draw the attention of the safety and draw him away from the middle of the field. It will open the middle of the field for Vernons skinny post route and allow Crabs to run free on crossing patterns (Can't wait to see STDs spread all over the field next year). Keeping the safety out of the box will also help Smith, Gore and the Oline as well.
Originally posted by Oakland9er:
Right now the #2 spot belongs to D. Walker primarily because of his versatility.

Some people really arent watching the same games as you or otherwise they would say the same.Even when we go to the spread Walker is 1st off the bench. Vern plays the role of Primary Rec and speed receiver. In order for them other guys to get on the field they better be able to block. We spend too much time in the double TE formation.
I believe it will be hard to realize the full potential of our WRs (Hill, Crabtree, & Morgan) and how good each can be until we have a QB that can air it out. I'm not saying Smith can't be the guy, but it is still TBD.

I believe that a QB like Brees makes Colston and D. Henderson excel and great, not the other way around. Just like I believe a QB like Farve will make Sydney Rice much better than if Tevarious Jackson was throwing the ball.
Originally posted by Oakland9er:
Right now the #2 spot belongs to D. Walker primarily because of his versatility.

WTF?

Originally posted by baltien:
I think you guys tend to over exaggerate what speed means on the field..... Hill and Jones are two of the fastest guys on the team. But straight line speed doesn't mean much in the NFL.

True. Running a straight-line 40 in shorts on a track means little. Neither Hill or Jones are quick or shifty, and they can't fool the CB. Jones has a total of only 9 TD's in 5 years in the NFL. McC paid Jones $16.5 million, but McClown played baseball, not football, and he also apparently doesn't understand that straight-line track speed is much different than change-of-direction football speed.

The 49ers are built (by McC) for power running and have NO real speed threats at either WR or RB. The WR’s are all big power/possession WR’s (Crabtree, Morgan, Hill, Jones, Battle). All of their RB’s are power guys (Gore, Coffee, Robinson, Norris). None of these 9 core 'skill' guys are speed burners or shifty return guys, yet they still can't run the ball, and they are not speedy, so they can't stretch the defense either. This is a sign of tunnel-vision ignorance by the guys constructing the team, and their infatuation with ‘power’ and their blindness to the value of speed and shiftiness. They fail to understand the balance, the yin-yang, that the threat of speedy/shifty guys opens up the power game.

The 9ers are so devoid of speed / open-field threats, I would suggest getting BOTH a speed WR AND a speed RB.
http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=136025