Nate Clements vs Houston

Originally posted by Pogity:

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by Thrash88:
Revis shut him down and followed it up by shutting down Randy Moss. He then ruined it all by allowing Ginn Jr. to burn him for a deep touchdown lol. Point is Nate Clements isn't Revis and I DONT want him on Johnson all game or we will get burnt often. Johnson is bigger stronger and faster. I'd rather Spencer match up on him with Goldson shadowing over top because Spencer has a better matchup size wise and Goldson can make sure he doesn't go deep. I'll take our chances with their running game against our run defense but please don't let Johnson rape us deep.

This may not be a bad idea. I'm pretty confident in Spencer, I would argue him to be comeback player of the year for the Niners.

Although, I will give Nate the benefit of the doubt, because he has played solid games up until the Atlanta blowout, he was a gambler on that game.

Either way, Andre Johnson will get his. The key is to get to Schaub, period.

Speaking of Spencer, do anyone think he's possibly playing better than Nate?

For the record, I have no problem with the way either of them are playing. I don't think how much they make is even a factor unless we're up against the salary cap. It's not my money that pays them.

Some might argue that. But to me...what separates Nate from Spencer are his run support skillset...

Nate can shed his blockers and literally spear any back, big or small, did you see when he speared Steven Jackson almost in half?...the rest of the game Sjax was weary of running at Nate's side....honestly there aren't too many CB's in this league that have enough grit to stick his head in there like Nate can.

Although I hate him, Winfield hits like a linebacker so he'd be the only corner I see as a more physical hitter then Clements. He's also a better over cornerback. That is not dissing Clements, Winfield is a very well rounded cornerback.

Originally posted by bigmur49:
I was reading the article on the home page about how much Clements blows and it mentioned Sanders in 94 and gave me an idea.

If memory serves correctly, in the NFC CHampionship game we put Sanders on Harper to completely elimiinate him, then basically double teamed Irvin.

With Andre Johnson this weekend, I don't have much faith in him "lockdown" handling him by himself, so what if Clement s went to the to the other side, then double Johnson?

Really like your idea and thinking - it's a bit different to what they expect as I'm sure they'll be assuming Nate v AJ.

For all those saying it's a bad idea due to Owen Daniels: well it worked well enough vs the '94 Cowboys and they had a certain TE by the name of Jay Novacek.

Bottom line is I'd like to see them make someone other than AJ beat us and I think double coverage is more likely to achieve this than having Clements try to take him on single coverage. I'm not having a go at Nate, I just think he's not as good as Spencer plus a safety.

Green Bay always used to make a point of taking Jerry Rice out the game with double coverage so I think we do the same to the Texans. At least make them change their gameplan.

one other thing though: none of this matters unless we:
1) move the ball on offense; and
2) get pressure on their QB.

Originally posted by Thrash88:
Although I hate him, Winfield hits like a linebacker so he'd be the only corner I see as a more physical hitter then Clements. He's also a better over cornerback. That is not dissing Clements, Winfield is a very well rounded cornerback.

Winfield is definitely up there in the physical category, and a fairly good example!

Although I would like to see how much better Clements can be (overall) with a Vikings style pass rush.

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by Thrash88:
Although I hate him, Winfield hits like a linebacker so he'd be the only corner I see as a more physical hitter then Clements. He's also a better over cornerback. That is not dissing Clements, Winfield is a very well rounded cornerback.

Winfield is definitely up there in the physical category, and a fairly good example!

Although I would like to see how much better Clements can be (overall) with a Vikings style pass rush.

A Jared Allen pass rush! LoL but yes I agree it's a very interesting comparison, now imagine them playing as the starting 2 cornerbacks on any team with a Colts like pass rush of Freeney and Mathis. WOW ~ Dead bodies everywhere.

Originally posted by Thrash88:

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by Thrash88:
Although I hate him, Winfield hits like a linebacker so he'd be the only corner I see as a more physical hitter then Clements. He's also a better over cornerback. That is not dissing Clements, Winfield is a very well rounded cornerback.

Winfield is definitely up there in the physical category, and a fairly good example!

Although I would like to see how much better Clements can be (overall) with a Vikings style pass rush.

A Jared Allen pass rush! LoL but yes I agree it's a very interesting comparison, now imagine them playing as the starting 2 cornerbacks on any team with a Colts like pass rush of Freeney and Mathis. WOW ~ Dead bodies everywhere.

lol, that would be game over.

I don't like Lawson on Daniels because although he matches up well with speed I'm not sure how he'd do in space because Daniels has great hands and runs good routes. It will be interesting to see what kind of matchups the defense comes up with to try and slow down their passing game.

Originally posted by lamontb:
Won't work b/c of Owen Daniels and the Niners safeties aren't great in coverage as is. Will be hard to roll a safety over the top on Johnson with Owen Daniels in the middle of the field. And a LB isn't checkign Daniels.

I disagree. Our safeties aren't as bad as they once were. Goldson has done a decent job since being promoted to a starter. And why can't our LBs cover Owen Daniels? He is a very good TE but our LBs are some of the fastest in the NFL. Manny Lawson is a very good coverage LB as is Willis. Spikes is decent as well. I personally think that Nate Clements, while terrible at times, is still an above average CB in this league. We need to honor our scheme and have our CBs play where they are instead of having Clements shadow him. I think Spencer is doing very well and would be able to handle the task of covering Johnson if he came to his side of the field. Yes, Clements did have a TERRIBLE game AT HOME against the Falcons but he's still a good CB and I expect him to bounce back this game and do well for us. He usually does.

What about bringing in Bly to cover the tight end as a nickel cornerback? We will have to double Johnson most of the game which will lead to Lewis zoning the middle of the field most of the game or being up on the line of scrimmage and our linebackers focusing on the run game. I'd rather have Bly match up with Daniels then Lawson because he's a defensive back and Lawsone is fast and all but he's not exactly made to cover elite tight ends.

Originally posted by bigmur49:
I was reading the article on the home page about how much Clements blows and it mentioned Sanders in 94 and gave me an idea.

If memory serves correctly, in the NFC CHampionship game we put Sanders on Harper to completely elimiinate him, then basically double teamed Irvin.

With Andre Johnson this weekend, I don't have much faith in him "lockdown" handling him by himself, so what if Clement s went to the to the other side, then double Johnson?

Sad truth is, we put Roddy White into double coverage with Nate & Goldson all day against the Falcons and he just DESTROYED US.

Pass-rush is our only safest bet, we just need to do what we did in the Cards game and we'll win this one, Shaub & Warner are very similar in throwing/pocket tenancies.

well...i guess somebody should start talking about moving nate to FS again

Originally posted by Thrash88:
Nate Clements is NOT a top 3 or top 5 cornerback not even close I'll give him top 10 but barely. He is a great bump and run corner but if he doesn't make contact he doesn't have top end speed to keep up with the real burners. He does struggle on deeper routes when he is one on one with no safety help and he sometimes gives to big of a cusion but he is by far a playmaker when given the chance. Spencer has given up 0 touchdowns and if you haven't noticed, they don't throw to his side of the field very often do they! That is the best thing to say about your corner is they don't target him very much. Clements has given up 3 touchdowns that were his fault through 5 games, thats not top 3 cornerback material. I'll be nice and say Fitz was a tough matchup but the Roddy White touchdown was all on him. The safety took a bad angle but he should have never missed the tackle, Roddy White had to turn and then run so Clements had the chance to breakdown and make the tackle towards the sideline. The touchdown to Rice was horrible he let a so-so receiver beat him one on one. That being said I do not see them leaving Clements with Johnson all game alone because he will get burnt up and down the field.

Nate had to turn too, that's why Roddy was able to take off like he did. Nate made the mistake of playing the ball, and not receiver. And I argued this already in another thread, but my challenge still stands:

Atlanta aside, can anyone name me the games were Nate is supposedly getting burned? By my count, Nate is responsible for two touchdowns (Harvin and White's 90 yarder). Not bad considering the caliber of receivers he played against.

Far as Spencer, and not to take anything away from him but he isn't tasked to handle the number ones Nate, which goes a long way in explaining how good he looks.

Originally posted by baltien:
This article is such bs it isn't even funny. Whether you want to believe it or not Nate is still a top three corner this league EASILY and would start on ANY team. What the writer (and some of you) failed to take into account is the given circumstances of those scores. On some plays (like Roddy White's 30 yard TD), it wasn't even Nate's fault.

He was in position, but the safety WASN'T.

Also, even if you are a "lockdown" corner, occasionally WR's are going to have a big day against you. It happened with Deion. It happens with your Champ's, Woodson's, and whoever else inbetween. It comes with the territory. To think that an elite corner should shut down every receiver, every year, until the end of his career is absurd.

I can seriously count on one hand the number of times Nate has been owned. The (only) two examples, the writer already gave in the article. Nate has been playing here two seasons now. So that means on average he gives up one big game per season.

Oh, the horror.

True! People forget he shuts down Fitz, he shut down C Ocho Steve Smith Burress too many wr's to even count.

Owens is the only one to burn him in a few years....now Nate didn't get "Burned" on that 90 yarder he went for the int and missed a tackle....if he just pushed white out of bounds, white has 120 yards 1 td...

I think he is a top 5 cb and the best tackling/cover combo in the league

Do you wall watch the games blindfolded? White burnt Clements on that play BECAUSE of clements not because of him having to turn. He knew he was alone on the play because Goldson blitz yet HE STILL tries to play the ball and then when he realized he screwed up he missed the tackle and it was over. He also got burnt all preseason by scrubs. And he also gave up the touchdown to Rice in the Minnesota game. The fact is whenever he has a receiver alone with no safety help he can't do it he's consistently letting receivers get open all game long with the 10 yard cushions he supplies to begin with. As for him being a top 5 cornerback. You're joking right>?

Charles Woodson
Champ Bailey
Nnamdi Asomugha
Asante Samuel
Terrence Newman
Ronde Barber
Chris Gamble
Rashean Mathis
Antoine Winfield
Darrelle Revis
Marcus Trufant
Lito Sheppard
Antonio Cromartie

Quit being a homer and start being an honest fan. Clements is not a top CB in the NFL he's and above average CB that's about the kindest honesty you'll get.

Originally posted by wailers15:
dude no one can lockdown andre johnson. he's such a beast. he's hands down the best wr in the game

At times i have doubt on Clements too but if he can shut down L.Fitz then he can do the same to AJ.