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Finally, Reason to not always blame Raye

Agreed.
I'm going to repost myself from another thread, because I think it fits better in this one -

I'm not really convinced that different play calling would really benefit us much given our current personnel.

We have an Oline that doesn't excel at pass blocking and a QB who doesn't excel at throwing the ball down the field. Our best playmakers are our RB and TE. On top of that, the strength of our team is our defense.

Given all of those things, I think the team has decided that playing to our strengths means relying on the defense and not allowing the weaknesses of the offense to drag us down. When Raye calls plays that rely on the running backs and keeps alot of protection in on passing plays, he's covering for the lack of talent we have at the QB spot and the lack of production we have from our Oline.

The alternative is to try to open it up more, ask our Oline to block better and our QB to make plays down the field - the result will probably be a significant increase in turnovers.

We've won the games that we've won by NOT turning the ball over and by playing good defense. It's not likely to win us a superbowl, but neither is our current starting offense.

If we had better offensive personnel out there and we were still running these same plays, then I'd be upset. But until we get better on the offensive side of the ball - I think the play calling fits as our best chance at the most wins.
I get that everyone is saying that we're a "run first" team because that's the mentality that our coach has said we want to have. But let's just be clear - so far we've passed more often than we've run. People who are upset because "all we do is run the ball" are simply mistaken.
Some folks are starting to jump off the Singletary bandwagon....I haven't yet.

but if the Niners get another beatdown in Houston....I'm jumping ship!


BRING BACK NOLAN!!!! lol ssssssssike!
Originally posted by wadjay:
I get that everyone is saying that we're a "run first" team because that's the mentality that our coach has said we want to have. But let's just be clear - so far we've passed more often than we've run. People who are upset because "all we do is run the ball" are simply mistaken.

The bad thing is that we can't run or pass the ball
Originally posted by verb1der:
Some folks are starting to jump off the Singletary bandwagon....I haven't yet.

but if the Niners get another beatdown in Houston....I'm jumping ship!


BRING BACK NOLAN!!!! lol ssssssssike!

BRING BACK SHANAHAN!!!! yyyyessss!
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
So Sing is telling Raye how to run an offense? He's telling Raye to run into a brick wall and throw 3 yard passes all the time? He brought in a guy who fits the mold so he would not have to micro-manage ala Nolan.

C'mon.

I don't believe for a minute that Sing is on his headset telling Raye to throw a quick out or run a shotgun draw on 3rd and long.

The hard-nose philosophy is Sing's I'll grant you, and Sing's apparent failing thus far is stubbornly implementing this style whether we have the personel or not. But let's remember that he is trying to change the mentality of this team, and it may or may not been tougher than he thought. Maybe Sing expected the slow start, who knows. I'm sure he expected the line to play better at least.

But Raye's the one up in the booth calling these plays. It's becoming more clear every week that Raye is afraid to move the ball aggressively because of a few things:

1. O-line is playing like hot garbage
2. Recievers cannot get open
3. Hill cannot zip the ball into tight coverage and he floats deep balls

Raye is not an idiot. He can see that the way Hill throws intermediate-deep balls that +4 turnover margin we have so far will quickly turn into the negative. We don't have very fysical recievers.

If the line plays decently Hill has a chance to move the ball effectively albeit a little at a time which fits the philosophy of keeping the other team's offense off the field.

The o-line is absolutely key for this teams success, and I'd start by blaming the o-line coach. He is not doing his job.

Gore or Coffee cannot run w/out any holes. Hill cannot move the chains with a rush in his face every down. The Atlanta game especially the second half is proof of this.

Its kind of the chicken or the egg. Is it the fault of the o-line entirely or is it because opposing teams have absolutely no repect for the Niners passing game which allows them to stack the box against the run and blitz on virtually every passing play?
Originally posted by alpha81:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Some folks are starting to jump off the Singletary bandwagon....I haven't yet.

but if the Niners get another beatdown in Houston....I'm jumping ship!


BRING BACK NOLAN!!!! lol ssssssssike!

BRING BACK SHANAHAN!!!! yyyyessss!

WOW....Mike Shanahan and the San Francisco 49ers. Sounds good.

We're still learning about Singletary's team tho....I'll be patient....for now.
Originally posted by verb1der:
Some folks are starting to jump off the Singletary bandwagon....I haven't yet.

but if the Niners get another beatdown in Houston....I'm jumping ship!


BRING BACK NOLAN!!!! lol ssssssssike!

Originally posted by wadjay:
I get that everyone is saying that we're a "run first" team because that's the mentality that our coach has said we want to have. But let's just be clear - so far we've passed more often than we've run. People who are upset because "all we do is run the ball" are simply mistaken.

On 1st down, we've run something around 60% of the time (at least before the Atlanta game). The reason we're passing so much is because we're not gaining anything running on 1st (or 2nd) down. If we were getting a chunk of yards on 1st down (4 to 5), then we'd be running a lot more on 2nd and 3rd downs. The philosophy hasn't changed, but our offensive ineptness has forced us into situations where we have to pass (and the defense knows it).
Originally posted by gravelburn:
Originally posted by wadjay:
I get that everyone is saying that we're a "run first" team because that's the mentality that our coach has said we want to have. But let's just be clear - so far we've passed more often than we've run. People who are upset because "all we do is run the ball" are simply mistaken.

On 1st down, we've run something around 60% of the time (at least before the Atlanta game). The reason we're passing so much is because we're not gaining anything running on 1st (or 2nd) down. If we were getting a chunk of yards on 1st down (4 to 5), then we'd be running a lot more on 2nd and 3rd downs. The philosophy hasn't changed, but our offensive ineptness has forced us into situations where we have to pass (and the defense knows it).

Hopefully that will change with Gore in the last half of the season.
You know when Jimmy Raye was in KC, he had the Nigerian Nightmare, and Joe Cool under some of his offenses. -And even before Joe went to KC they were a legit playoff team that focused on a conservative scheme.

It isn't exactly predictability that kills you, it's lack of talent. I really don't understand everybody's fuss cause our system is no different than what the Steelers or Giants run. -Only big difference is that each team has a legit QB that can air the ball down-field with confidence.

-I'm sure if Shaun had the god-gifted talent of throwing a rocket, or if Alex had the ability to throw anywhere but his receiver's shoes we'd be airing it out a ton.

You can blame the Atlanta game on lack of preparation all you want but our receiving core literally just gave up after the first half. Josh Morgan has taken the throne of the old Vernon Davis (i.e. he puts no extra-effort into going after the ball downfield anymore/YAC). This is where Crabtree is going to come in and earn his money. If the kid loves the game as much as people have been saying, he's going to humiliate the rest of our list-less receiving core.
[ Edited by SnakePlissken on Oct 17, 2009 at 1:33 AM ]
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
So Sing is telling Raye how to run an offense? He's telling Raye to run into a brick wall and throw 3 yard passes all the time? He brought in a guy who fits the mold so he would not have to micro-manage ala Nolan.

C'mon.

I don't believe for a minute that Sing is on his headset telling Raye to throw a quick out or run a shotgun draw on 3rd and long.

The hard-nose philosophy is Sing's I'll grant you, and Sing's apparent failing thus far is stubbornly implementing this style whether we have the personel or not. But let's remember that he is trying to change the mentality of this team, and it may or may not been tougher than he thought. Maybe Sing expected the slow start, who knows. I'm sure he expected the line to play better at least.

But Raye's the one up in the booth calling these plays. It's becoming more clear every week that Raye is afraid to move the ball aggressively because of a few things:

1. O-line is playing like hot garbage
2. Recievers cannot get open
3. Hill cannot zip the ball into tight coverage and he floats deep balls

Raye is not an idiot. He can see that the way Hill throws intermediate-deep balls that +4 turnover margin we have so far will quickly turn into the negative. We don't have very fysical recievers.

If the line plays decently Hill has a chance to move the ball effectively albeit a little at a time which fits the philosophy of keeping the other team's offense off the field.

The o-line is absolutely key for this teams success, and I'd start by blaming the o-line coach. He is not doing his job.

Gore or Coffee cannot run w/out any holes. Hill cannot move the chains with a rush in his face every down. The Atlanta game especially the second half is proof of this.

What is ""hot garbage" and how exactly does it play? Enquiring minds would like to know.

Oh yeah and fix number 3 and 1 and 2 would be fixed by extension. Because if the Receivers can go deep then the Defense has to play them that way. If they can't then the Defense stacks the box with every spare body they can get away with.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
You know when Jimmy Raye was in KC, he had the Nigerian Nightmare, and Joe Cool under some of his offenses. -And even before Joe went to KC they were a legit playoff team that focused on a conservative scheme.

It isn't exactly predictability that kills you, it's lack of talent. I really don't understand everybody's fuss cause our system is no different than what the Steelers or Giants run. -Only big difference is that each team has a legit QB that can air the ball down-field with confidence.

-I'm sure if Shaun had the god-gifted talent of throwing a rocket, or if Alex had the ability to throw anywhere but his receiver's shoes we'd be airing it out a ton.

You can blame the Atlanta game on lack of preparation all you want but our receiving core literally just gave up after the first half. Josh Morgan has taken the throne of the old Vernon Davis (i.e. he puts no extra-effort into going after the ball downfield anymore/YAC). This is where Crabtree is going to come in and earn his money. If the kid loves the game as much as people have been saying, he's going to humiliate the rest of our list-less receiving core.

Not if Shaun is throwin the ball to him he's not.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by alpha81:
Its funny how they blame Sing and Raye but how bout Hill. Put this offense with Brady under center and this offense would be a lot different. Do the same with the Pats with Hill and the offense would have to be conservative due to Hill's limitations. The problem here is that Hill has reached his potential and it sucks. I'm not a big Alex Smith fan but I think this guy has much more potential to show. Smith hasnt even had a coordinator for two years for god sakes. That is really tough on a guy that is young and is trying to improve. Anyway, Raye can only do so much with Hill due to his limitations....think about it




Think about this , if tom brady was under our o-line he would get sacked and suffer as much as hill , if hill was with new england , he would be a upgraded chad pennington , THE FACT is its about the OLINE , they cant block i dont care if joe cool was back there nothing will happen , if we had the NYG oline gore and coffee would have a 5.1 or better avg and hill would have more completions and tds , its common football sense!!!!!