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49er myths examined

Originally posted by baltien:
It's Friday, and I feel like writing. Here are the biggest complaints that I'm seeing around the forums thus far. I just wanted to inject a little reality into the argument:

1) We don't have enough speed on this team.

I wanted to address this first because it's by far the most ludicrous.

Concerning the defense, if there's one thing we do have on that side of the ball, it's definitely speed. They were plenty fast enough to stop Adrian Peterson, Fitz, Boldin, and Steven Jackson. And the big plays we gave up to Atlanta weren't due to lack of speed, it was due to lack of proper technique.

On Roddy White's 90 yard touchdown Nate was in position, he just tried to break on the ball instead of making the tackle. I will concede that Roman got torched, but it's been fact for awhile now he isn't exactly a burner. Going back and looking at Michael Turner's big runs, more often than not someone got a hand on him early.

They just failed (miserably) to wrap him up.

Offensively, I can agree that we do need faster players in certain positions, but it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. On Josh Morgan's 70 yard reception, he only got caught because he started jogging at around the 10. On the Bly interception, same deal. He started showboating and assumed that no one was behind him.

So what we saw in that game pretty much boils down to lack of focus. Mental mistakes that Atlanta made us pay dearly for.

2) I don't like the way that Coach Sing uses timeouts.

Again, the responses to this are more reactionary than logical. Case in point:

The decision to call time out towards the end of the Arizona game to "rally the troops" was lauded because we went on to WIN. The only reason people are complaining now is because Atlanta pretty much continued to hand our asses to us-- timeouts be damned.

Our performance (or lack thereof) can hardly be blamed on one timeout. And Delanie's fumble on the ensuing kickoff is irrelevant. Had Delanie properly secured the ball we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

3) Benching Shaun Hill is the answer to our offensive problems.

In short, no it isn't. Benching Hill won't help anything. Starting Smith, Davis, or trading for Peyton Manning won't help anything either. Until we fix the O-line, it doesn't matter who's back there if we can't protect him. Yes, I am aware that even when he's has time Hill's throws aren't always perfect.

Still, that doesn't detract from the root issue.

It isn't Hill's fault that as soon as he drops back there's a defender in his face. It isn't Hill's fault that no one respects the run game because our line can't open holes. Defenses are getting pressure on us EVEN when we have Vernon, and Morgan helping to block. And they're doing it with only 4 or 5 rushers.

IMO, this is a scheming issue. Hopefully, our coaching staff will correct this. I know some of you say it's due to lack of talent on the line, so I'll let you guys debate that one.

Thoughts?

Exzctly right....As a matter of fact i think Hill is great b/c most every other qb in the league would do WORSE with our OL and w/o Gore.

As far as team speed, Davis fastest TE in the game
Willis and Lawson Fastest 2 lb's in the Game
Gore is pretty quick (see runs of 75+ yards)
  • Mex49
  • Member
  • Posts: 2,979
Originally posted by carlgo:
Myths:
1. Smashmout works
2. Motivation is more important than schemes
3. 5 guys can block 8 motivated big fast guys
4. Hill or Smith can succeed in this offense
5. The QB isn't important
6. Having a fast running back that can go outside isn't important
7. Catch phrases and a stern demeanor are good coaching attributes
8. If you run a screen pass 100 times, it will eventually go the distance
9. If you run at the middle of the line 100 times the defense will give up
10. This is Chicago or Baltimore
11. You want this to be Chicago or Baltimore
12. This is all a better idea than Martz' scheme
13. It will be possible to come up with the best OL in NFL history
14. The stands are full of happy True Believers
15. Ownership will have the guts to end this and get real.
16. Purple Kool-Aide is good for you.

And there you have it.
Originally posted by elguapo:
Originally posted by baltien:
It's Friday, and I feel like writing. Here are the biggest complaints that I'm seeing around the forums thus far. I just wanted to inject a little reality into the argument:

1) We don't have enough speed on this team.

I wanted to address this first because it's by far the most ludicrous.

Concerning the defense, if there's one thing we do have on that side of the ball, it's definitely speed. They were plenty fast enough to stop Adrian Peterson, Fitz, Boldin, and Steven Jackson. And the big plays we gave up to Atlanta weren't due to lack of speed, it was due to lack of proper technique.

On Roddy White's 90 yard touchdown Nate was in position, he just tried to break on the ball instead of making the tackle. I will concede that Roman got torched, but it's been fact for awhile now he isn't exactly a burner. Going back and looking at Michael Turner's big runs, more often than not someone got a hand on him early.

They just failed (miserably) to wrap him up.

Offensively, I can agree that we do need faster players in certain positions, but it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. On Josh Morgan's 70 yard reception, he only got caught because he started jogging at around the 10. On the Bly interception, same deal. He started showboating and assumed that no one was behind him.

So what we saw in that game pretty much boils down to lack of focus. Mental mistakes that Atlanta made us pay dearly for.

2) I don't like the way that Coach Sing uses timeouts.

Again, the responses to this are more reactionary than logical. Case in point:

The decision to call time out towards the end of the Arizona game to "rally the troops" was lauded because we went on to WIN. The only reason people are complaining now is because Atlanta pretty much continued to hand our asses to us-- timeouts be damned.

Our performance (or lack thereof) can hardly be blamed on one timeout. And Delanie's fumble on the ensuing kickoff is irrelevant. Had Delanie properly secured the ball we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

3) Benching Shaun Hill is the answer to our offensive problems.

In short, no it isn't. Benching Hill won't help anything. Starting Smith, Davis, or trading for Peyton Manning won't help anything either. Until we fix the O-line, it doesn't matter who's back there if we can't protect him. Yes, I am aware that even when he's has time Hill's throws aren't always perfect.

Still, that doesn't detract from the root issue.

It isn't Hill's fault that as soon as he drops back there's a defender in his face. It isn't Hill's fault that no one respects the run game because our line can't open holes. Defenses are getting pressure on us EVEN when we have Vernon, and Morgan helping to block. And they're doing it with only 4 or 5 rushers.

IMO, this is a scheming issue. Hopefully, our coaching staff will correct this. I know some of you say it's due to lack of talent on the line, so I'll let you guys debate that one.

Thoughts?

Exzctly right....As a matter of fact i think Hill is great b/c most every other qb in the league would do WORSE with our OL and w/o Gore.

As far as team speed, Davis fastest TE in the game
Willis and Lawson Fastest 2 lb's in the Game
Gore is pretty quick (see runs of 75+ yards)

I disagree.. hill sucks no matter how you look at it. A 7th grade rec league qb, can throw those 5-10 yard throws, that hill always has land at his wr's feet, that is so frustrating to see every game..


Willis/lawson are quick.. takeo has mediocre speed, spencer isnt bad clements is ok.. Goldson is slow, mark roman only has one speed. (slow)

On offense..
bruce is painfully slow.
battle is one step faster than bruce..
Last year morgan looked quick, this year he looks more muscular and slow (like the old VD)

Vd is fast
gore is quick.

Jason hill isnt getting a fair shot, but he is quick..
Coffee is slower than Jimmy Raye.

..
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
1) We are the slowest team in the NFL on offense and actually a little slow on defense too at certain positions. Yes our speed or lack of it is terrible.

2) Coach Sing's timeouts for PEP RALLY's and clock management / game management would rank him #32 in the league right now.

3) Hill is a huge problem. He can only throw a 7 - 8 yard pass. Anything 10 + is out of the question. The D. stacks the box within a 10 yard area becuase he is no threat beyond that. Anything beyond that and the ball will come down "like a punt" and be uncatchable.

Yes the O Line is the bigger problem. But that still doesn't fix the weakness that is Shaun Hill.

So punts are uncatchable? "Did the ball hit you in the hands? Then catch it"
Team speed is one of the biggest issues on our team you are pretty blind not to realize it. When your tight end and your middle linebacker are the fastest 2 guys on your team thats BAD. Josh Morgan and Nate Clements are NOT speed guys they are good players which is ok. The problem is we have all possession receivers and all zone cornerbacks. We need a speed receiver to threaten teams with a deep pass see Ted Ginn JR on Monday Night Football against one of the BEST if not top 3 cornerbacks in the NFL Revis of the Jets. Ginn didn't make any moves, he didn't run a perfect route, he ran a straight line and outran the defender SPEED KILLS but no it's not a must have for everyone. It is a must have for the team though. As for the defense we are SO SLOW at the skill positions it's nice to have sideline to sideline speed with the linebackers which is why we have a great run defense, but our pass defense will always give up yards because we have no speed which is why we play alot of zones or cover two. How nice woult it be to have one of these options:
a) A ballhawking HIGH SPEED open field tackling machine safety - Ed Reed/Taylor Mays/ Eric Berry/ Troy Polamalu. This would allow us to send the strong safety to the line of scrimmage more often or blitz etc and allow the corners a BIT more freedom with their coverage knowing that our ball hawk has their backs.
b) An athletic cornerback that could catch up to a tight end so that Willis doesn't have to chase everything down. Roddy White isn't one of the fastest guys in the NFL and Nate Clements was about the same speed which is why he couldn't catch him and Roman is well Roman he couldn't catch a cold. If we had a cornerback with some athleticism who could come up and bump the receiver and HAVE THE SPEED to then catch him if the receiver got a good release that would be HUGE. We could then not have to throw the safeties deep every single play, not play 20 yards off the receiver like we do every single play BAH!
I'm pretty sure if we traded for Peyton Manning it would help
Originally posted by bigmur49:
I'm pretty sure if we traded for Peyton Manning it would help

It would get Peyton injured,lol.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by bigmur49:
I'm pretty sure if we traded for Peyton Manning it would help

It would get Peyton injured,lol.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
1) We are the slowest team in the NFL on offense and actually a little slow on defense too at certain positions. Yes our speed or lack of it is terrible.

2) Coach Sing's timeouts for PEP RALLY's and clock management / game management would rank him #32 in the league right now.

3) Hill is a huge problem. He can only throw a 7 - 8 yard pass. Anything 10 + is out of the question. The D. stacks the box within a 10 yard area becuase he is no threat beyond that. Anything beyond that and the ball will come down "like a punt" and be uncatchable.

Yes the O Line is the bigger problem. But that still doesn't fix the weakness that is Shaun Hill.

SanDiego49er = master of hyperbole.

-9fA
Originally posted by jb49ers80:
Originally posted by baltien:
It's Friday, and I feel like writing. Here are the biggest complaints that I'm seeing around the forums thus far. I just wanted to inject a little reality into the argument:

1) We don't have enough speed on this team.

I wanted to address this first because it's by far the most ludicrous.

Concerning the defense, if there's one thing we do have on that side of the ball, it's definitely speed. They were plenty fast enough to stop Adrian Peterson, Fitz, Boldin, and Steven Jackson. And the big plays we gave up to Atlanta weren't due to lack of speed, it was due to lack of proper technique.

On Roddy White's 90 yard touchdown Nate was in position, he just tried to break on the ball instead of making the tackle. I will concede that Roman got torched, but it's been fact for awhile now he isn't exactly a burner. Going back and looking at Michael Turner's big runs, more often than not someone got a hand on him early.

They just failed (miserably) to wrap him up.

Offensively, I can agree that we do need faster players in certain positions, but it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. On Josh Morgan's 70 yard reception, he only got caught because he started jogging at around the 10. On the Bly interception, same deal. He started showboating and assumed that no one was behind him.

So what we saw in that game pretty much boils down to lack of focus. Mental mistakes that Atlanta made us pay dearly for.

2) I don't like the way that Coach Sing uses timeouts.

Again, the responses to this are more reactionary than logical. Case in point:

The decision to call time out towards the end of the Arizona game to "rally the troops" was lauded because we went on to WIN. The only reason people are complaining now is because Atlanta pretty much continued to hand our asses to us-- timeouts be damned.

Our performance (or lack thereof) can hardly be blamed on one timeout. And Delanie's fumble on the ensuing kickoff is irrelevant. Had Delanie properly secured the ball we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

3) Benching Shaun Hill is the answer to our offensive problems.

In short, no it isn't. Benching Hill won't help anything. Starting Smith, Davis, or trading for Peyton Manning won't help anything either. Until we fix the O-line, it doesn't matter who's back there if we can't protect him. Yes, I am aware that even when he's has time Hill's throws aren't always perfect.

Still, that doesn't detract from the root issue.

It isn't Hill's fault that [i]as soon as he drops back there's a defender in his face. It isn't Hill's fault that no one respects the run game [/i]because our line can't open holes. Defenses are getting pressure on us EVEN when we have Vernon, and Morgan helping to block. And they're doing it with only 4 or 5 rushers.

IMO, this is a scheming issue. Hopefully, our coaching staff will correct this. I know some of you say it's due to lack of talent on the line, so I'll let you guys debate that one.

Thoughts?

Agree on most counts. Although, I do think trading for Peyton Manning would help our offense.

Definitely and you know why. For a reason that all other teams make some excuses for lack of qb. We are not the only team with a depleted O-line, and last week all i kept on hearing was when the o-line gives the qb an opportunity. The only way it's all on the o-line is if he didnt have any yards through the air. just like they say to a WR. if you get your hands on the ball, you should make the catch.

I dont care right now if it's HIll, Smith, or Davis, throwing behind center. you make plays by the ones that present themselves. Hill had opportunities last game, but still more than most will go with the underneath man. I dont agree with those that say he's stinkin it up. He's just bein Hill in my opinion. Just like Sing said in Pre-season, we know what we have in him.

And for Mr. Baltien i gotta question for you in the part i italicized. your right on those accounts, but Hill is responsible for why most dont respect our passing game. So if you say they dont respect our running game, then we're up s**t creek witout a paddle, cuz it's the running and defense that won those games for us.
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
1) We are the slowest team in the NFL on offense and actually a little slow on defense too at certain positions. Yes our speed or lack of it is terrible.

2) Coach Sing's timeouts for PEP RALLY's and clock management / game management would rank him #32 in the league right now.

3) Hill is a huge problem. He can only throw a 7 - 8 yard pass. Anything 10 + is out of the question. The D. stacks the box within a 10 yard area becuase he is no threat beyond that. Anything beyond that and the ball will come down "like a punt" and be uncatchable.

Yes the O Line is the bigger problem. But that still doesn't fix the weakness that is Shaun Hill.


Hi troll,

I'm glad you have the 40 times of every player on offense and defense and can say that we are the slowest team in the NFL, even if it's not about 40 time, I'm sure you have watched EVERY NFL team this season at least 3 games, and thus came to this conclusion.

Once again how do you come to the conclusion that Sing's time management would rank 32 in the league??? He's called good time outs and made good challenges.

Really...he can only throw 7 yards...so what you are telling me that he has the arm strength of a 2nd grader. The throw the Bruce, the TD passes to VD?

It's obvious, that once again you are talking out of your ASS.

SanDiego hates the 49ers (he is probably a Charger fan), which is why he comes up with outrageous and untrue pseudo-analyses; so that others will think he knows what he is talking about even though he doesn't.

If you follow his thread entries, they are always negative about the 49ers. He never says anything positive about the team. That means he is not a 49er fan.

You are known by your acts not your words.
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
1) We are the slowest team in the NFL on offense and actually a little slow on defense too at certain positions. Yes our speed or lack of it is terrible.

2) Coach Sing's timeouts for PEP RALLY's and clock management / game management would rank him #32 in the league right now.

3) Hill is a huge problem. He can only throw a 7 - 8 yard pass. Anything 10 + is out of the question. The D. stacks the box within a 10 yard area becuase he is no threat beyond that. Anything beyond that and the ball will come down "like a punt" and be uncatchable.

Yes the O Line is the bigger problem. But that still doesn't fix the weakness that is Shaun Hill.


Hi troll,

I'm glad you have the 40 times of every player on offense and defense and can say that we are the slowest team in the NFL, even if it's not about 40 time, I'm sure you have watched EVERY NFL team this season at least 3 games, and thus came to this conclusion.

Once again how do you come to the conclusion that Sing's time management would rank 32 in the league??? He's called good time outs and made good challenges.

Really...he can only throw 7 yards...so what you are telling me that he has the arm strength of a 2nd grader. The throw the Bruce, the TD passes to VD?

It's obvious, that once again you are talking out of your ASS.

Those ain't words coming out his ass. It's foolish jibberish
  • Kush_Man16
  • Info N/A
the timeout problem was glen coffee's fault by far; i dont mind a great coach/motivator calling timeouts to rally the troops
Originally posted by Kush_Man16:
the timeout problem was glen coffee's fault by far; i dont mind a great coach/motivator calling timeouts to rally the troops


The Niners gave up a 35 yard td after the timeout. It wasn't even close as the WR was WIDE open.
Originally posted by nflguy49:
Originally posted by Kush_Man16:
the timeout problem was glen coffee's fault by far; i dont mind a great coach/motivator calling timeouts to rally the troops


The Niners gave up a 35 yard td after the timeout. It wasn't even close as the WR was WIDE open.

I think Atlanta's Head coach did a fine job with the Play Call after our "pep talk" I'm guessing he knew that the players were ready to make a play and a regular pass or run would have been stuffed....so he called a long playaction deep pass, who would of thunk it?

So for now on, I hope the players are careful for the first play after a pep talk....

I have no problems using timeouts for situations like these, not because of the whole Pep talk theory.....more so to give the defense a quick rest and calm everyone down and refocus on the next play.... Atlanta was just moving on us on that drive and I feel that was needed (just like the Arizona game)...

but again, great play call by the Falcon's Coach.