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West Coast Offense for Hill.....

  • Blitz
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,858
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by E-49er:
Thats all nice and dandy and the WCO is probably the best offense to fit hin, problem is we are not installing the WCO mid season. We are going to have to deal with the players we have and hope the play calling improves and the offense starts showing signs of cohesiveness.

Agreed. It's good to dream, but i'm not expecting any major overhauls during the bye week. It's probably bad for the offense to do anything that dramatic as well.

I also think Raye is too stubborn to change his philosophy.

-9fA

Stubbornness doesn't have anything to do with it. Using the personnel you have as best you can does. He simply doesn't have many horses to work with. He has a QB that can only do so much (and that's not a lot, it's just enough) and an o-line that is playing like s**t in run and pass. He couldn't do any major philosophy change even if he wanted to.

What's he gonna do under those terms? Have Hill throw more? Run more? Balls to the wall Tazer? 20 receiver sets?

News flash: None if it works without competence in the trench's.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how we could be using our talent better than what we are, aside from some WCO throwback pipe dream.

What do you propose then ? I can only think of a WCO type playbook, where the QB doesnt have to hold the ball too long. Maybe you're mistaking that as me claiming that we should throw away Raye's playbook and dust off Walsh/Montana's skit from the 80s. You dont need to overhaul your offense; all you need is to implement more short passes into your current format. Not tough to do, especially since it seems like our basic offense is tun off of 5 basic schemes.....



I'm sorry but he hasn't HAD to hold the ball that long, half the time guys are open but he's choosing not to throw the ball because of the fact that he's not confident he can get the ball there before the DB recovers. Some of the blame is on the OL and some is on the QB but I don't think changing our plays will help him that much. Even in the WCO you need to keep defenses honest. His arm isn't doing that, they leave guys open down the field and they cover the shorter passes if they have to. He can't squeeze the ball in tight spaces and he can't make all the throws. You can say Young didn't have a good arm, which isn't true, and you can say Garcia didn't, which is true but his was still better than Hill's, and they had success in the WCO, but the difference between them is they played consistently and had success. Shaun isn't doing anything different really, teams are just adjusting to his limitations and it's making it easier for for them to gameplan for our O. Most of Shaun's stats are in the bottom of the league for starting QBs, just above JaMarcus Russel and Anderson and guys like that.

Well said. I don't know why people want to put energy into Hill. He's a stop gap measure. He is not in our future as a starter. He could be on the bench in a week or two. His leash is short. The writing is (rightfully) on the wall with the drafting of Davis. We didn't draft a QB in the hopes of him being a third stringer...we already had one of those and good one at that. If Davis doesn't work out, we will be getting someone else. We are not going to put lot's of energy into Hill, we are going to fix our o-line and we are going to get a QB who can do more than just enough to win a game, who can give us more than Hill does.
  • kem99
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 552
Originally posted by ZRF80:
I know, I know.......Im dreaming.

It's the absolute opposite of what Sing is preaching to this young team. But somewhere along the line you have to mold your offense to the team's strengths. Is the running game a strength ? Sure. But with an oft-injured Gore, and a rookie backup still trying to find his game (not to mention the loss of Sheets), maybe it's time we DONT rely solely on Gore's legs to carry us to victory.

Which leaves us to Shaun Hill, and more specifically to Shaun Hill's arm. It's no mystery that the guy cannot throw deep. His comfort zone is between the 5-15 yard pass; he'll even give you a decent 20 yarder every now and then. But anything beyond that is outside his realm, which is a-ok, because thats exactly what we had with guys like Young and Garcia. So what do you do to solve this issue ?

You eliminate the 3rd and longs. Why keep running up the middle and force a long 3rd down conversion, when you you know your QB will have to make a play outside his comfort zone ? Why not "tune in" to his strengths and put him in a situation where he's 3rd and 5 (or less), and can actually squeeze a decent ball into coverage ? Especially when you know you're running game will falter because the opposition will adjust to Gore. There are a few articles out that claim that teams like Minn. and Atlanta actually adjusted their defenses to make SF one-dimensional. And when Hill was forced to throw outside his 5-15 yard zone, he botched.

The definite answer here would be to revert to a WCO type scheme. Give Hill plenty of screens, slants, short out patterns. A weak o-line means a weak pocket. Give the man some roll-outs (he's proven he can pass on the run), scrambles, etc.

Keep the defense honest, instead of succumbing to the typical "stand inside the pocket and die" mentality that Raye has implemented. I know Sing is hard headed, and he probably thinks a single change in the o-line (take Chilo out) and a semi-healthy Gore will be enough to go back to run, run, and more run. But unless we play to Hill's strengths, this offense will remain anemic and we will rely solely on our defense/ST to win. And that my friends is a no-no, especially with teams like Indy and GB coming up in the next month.

A lot of you guys have given up on Hill based on this season's play. But keep in mind that this was the SAME Hill who looked brilliant in Martz's offense, and even looked semi-good in Hostler's offense. The man has proven he can move the chains and put up some points, if given the right conditions. And sure, it sucks that he's no Brady and/or a Manning and cannot adjust to the game (he needs the game adjusted to him), but hey......thats all what got for now, and it wouldnt hurt to make things easier for him, especially with our o-line and receiving corp.



I hope Sing/Raye use these 2 weeks wisely.

While I get where you are going, while the 49ers are not running a WC scheme, this offense is tailored to Hill's strengths. They have been running a lot of screens and short passes in the 0-15 yard areas. So much so that the TE and RBs are the leading receivers and most of the catches the WRs have are in the 0-15 yard areas.

You are correct that the 49ers have found themselves in too many 3rd and long situations but that ultimately falls on the problems with running the ball consistently. If they were running the ball as they did in 2006 or as Singletary envisioned they would, they would not be in so many 3rd and longs and the defense would not be able to tee off on rushing the passer. The problem is not with the type of scheme, its with the execution.
  • Blitz
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,858
Originally posted by kem99:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
I know, I know.......Im dreaming.

It's the absolute opposite of what Sing is preaching to this young team. But somewhere along the line you have to mold your offense to the team's strengths. Is the running game a strength ? Sure. But with an oft-injured Gore, and a rookie backup still trying to find his game (not to mention the loss of Sheets), maybe it's time we DONT rely solely on Gore's legs to carry us to victory.

Which leaves us to Shaun Hill, and more specifically to Shaun Hill's arm. It's no mystery that the guy cannot throw deep. His comfort zone is between the 5-15 yard pass; he'll even give you a decent 20 yarder every now and then. But anything beyond that is outside his realm, which is a-ok, because thats exactly what we had with guys like Young and Garcia. So what do you do to solve this issue ?

You eliminate the 3rd and longs. Why keep running up the middle and force a long 3rd down conversion, when you you know your QB will have to make a play outside his comfort zone ? Why not "tune in" to his strengths and put him in a situation where he's 3rd and 5 (or less), and can actually squeeze a decent ball into coverage ? Especially when you know you're running game will falter because the opposition will adjust to Gore. There are a few articles out that claim that teams like Minn. and Atlanta actually adjusted their defenses to make SF one-dimensional. And when Hill was forced to throw outside his 5-15 yard zone, he botched.

The definite answer here would be to revert to a WCO type scheme. Give Hill plenty of screens, slants, short out patterns. A weak o-line means a weak pocket. Give the man some roll-outs (he's proven he can pass on the run), scrambles, etc.

Keep the defense honest, instead of succumbing to the typical "stand inside the pocket and die" mentality that Raye has implemented. I know Sing is hard headed, and he probably thinks a single change in the o-line (take Chilo out) and a semi-healthy Gore will be enough to go back to run, run, and more run. But unless we play to Hill's strengths, this offense will remain anemic and we will rely solely on our defense/ST to win. And that my friends is a no-no, especially with teams like Indy and GB coming up in the next month.

A lot of you guys have given up on Hill based on this season's play. But keep in mind that this was the SAME Hill who looked brilliant in Martz's offense, and even looked semi-good in Hostler's offense. The man has proven he can move the chains and put up some points, if given the right conditions. And sure, it sucks that he's no Brady and/or a Manning and cannot adjust to the game (he needs the game adjusted to him), but hey......thats all what got for now, and it wouldnt hurt to make things easier for him, especially with our o-line and receiving corp.



I hope Sing/Raye use these 2 weeks wisely.

While I get where you are going, while the 49ers are not running a WC scheme, this offense is tailored to Hill's strengths. They have been running a lot of screens and short passes in the 0-15 yard areas. So much so that the TE and RBs are the leading receivers and most of the catches the WRs have are in the 0-15 yard areas.

You are correct that the 49ers have found themselves in too many 3rd and long situations but that ultimately falls on the problems with running the ball consistently. If they were running the ball as they did in 2006 or as Singletary envisioned they would, they would not be in so many 3rd and longs and the defense would not be able to tee off on rushing the passer. The problem is not with the type of scheme, its with the execution.

Yes. Raye has set up an offense that plays into Hill's strength's already. The main problem is the o-line in both and run and pass. That is where your start to fix things, after that gets fixed...then you see what you have, what you need to do. We are stalled out because of this o-line, we aren't going anywhere until it is fixed. No scheme will save us from this f**ked up line.
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by kem99:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
I know, I know.......Im dreaming.

It's the absolute opposite of what Sing is preaching to this young team. But somewhere along the line you have to mold your offense to the team's strengths. Is the running game a strength ? Sure. But with an oft-injured Gore, and a rookie backup still trying to find his game (not to mention the loss of Sheets), maybe it's time we DONT rely solely on Gore's legs to carry us to victory.

Which leaves us to Shaun Hill, and more specifically to Shaun Hill's arm. It's no mystery that the guy cannot throw deep. His comfort zone is between the 5-15 yard pass; he'll even give you a decent 20 yarder every now and then. But anything beyond that is outside his realm, which is a-ok, because thats exactly what we had with guys like Young and Garcia. So what do you do to solve this issue ?

You eliminate the 3rd and longs. Why keep running up the middle and force a long 3rd down conversion, when you you know your QB will have to make a play outside his comfort zone ? Why not "tune in" to his strengths and put him in a situation where he's 3rd and 5 (or less), and can actually squeeze a decent ball into coverage ? Especially when you know you're running game will falter because the opposition will adjust to Gore. There are a few articles out that claim that teams like Minn. and Atlanta actually adjusted their defenses to make SF one-dimensional. And when Hill was forced to throw outside his 5-15 yard zone, he botched.

The definite answer here would be to revert to a WCO type scheme. Give Hill plenty of screens, slants, short out patterns. A weak o-line means a weak pocket. Give the man some roll-outs (he's proven he can pass on the run), scrambles, etc.

Keep the defense honest, instead of succumbing to the typical "stand inside the pocket and die" mentality that Raye has implemented. I know Sing is hard headed, and he probably thinks a single change in the o-line (take Chilo out) and a semi-healthy Gore will be enough to go back to run, run, and more run. But unless we play to Hill's strengths, this offense will remain anemic and we will rely solely on our defense/ST to win. And that my friends is a no-no, especially with teams like Indy and GB coming up in the next month.

A lot of you guys have given up on Hill based on this season's play. But keep in mind that this was the SAME Hill who looked brilliant in Martz's offense, and even looked semi-good in Hostler's offense. The man has proven he can move the chains and put up some points, if given the right conditions. And sure, it sucks that he's no Brady and/or a Manning and cannot adjust to the game (he needs the game adjusted to him), but hey......thats all what got for now, and it wouldnt hurt to make things easier for him, especially with our o-line and receiving corp.



I hope Sing/Raye use these 2 weeks wisely.

While I get where you are going, while the 49ers are not running a WC scheme, this offense is tailored to Hill's strengths. They have been running a lot of screens and short passes in the 0-15 yard areas. So much so that the TE and RBs are the leading receivers and most of the catches the WRs have are in the 0-15 yard areas.

You are correct that the 49ers have found themselves in too many 3rd and long situations but that ultimately falls on the problems with running the ball consistently. If they were running the ball as they did in 2006 or as Singletary envisioned they would, they would not be in so many 3rd and longs and the defense would not be able to tee off on rushing the passer. The problem is not with the type of scheme, its with the execution.

Yes. Raye has set up an offense that plays into Hill's strength's already. The main problem is the o-line in both and run and pass. That is where your start to fix things, after that gets fixed...then you see what you have, what you need to do. We are stalled out because of this o-line, we aren't going anywhere until it is fixed. No scheme will save us from this f**ked up line.

If you have a way go back and watch the games. Except for a few exceptions Hill always has at least 3 seconds to throw the ball. That's not saying the O-line is playing great by and stretch but consistently getting 3 seconds is more than enough for a QB to do his thing and against NFL defenses that's really all anyone can ask for (even if the top 3-4 NFL O-lines can get their QB an extra second or two sometimes).
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by E-49er:
Thats all nice and dandy and the WCO is probably the best offense to fit hin, problem is we are not installing the WCO mid season. We are going to have to deal with the players we have and hope the play calling improves and the offense starts showing signs of cohesiveness.

Agreed. It's good to dream, but i'm not expecting any major overhauls during the bye week. It's probably bad for the offense to do anything that dramatic as well.

I also think Raye is too stubborn to change his philosophy.

-9fA

Stubbornness doesn't have anything to do with it. Using the personnel you have as best you can does. He simply doesn't have many horses to work with. He has a QB that can only do so much (and that's not a lot, it's just enough) and an o-line that is playing like s**t in run and pass. He couldn't do any major philosophy change even if he wanted to.

What's he gonna do under those terms? Have Hill throw more? Run more? Balls to the wall Tazer? 20 receiver sets?

News flash: None if it works without competence in the trench's.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how we could be using our talent better than what we are, aside from some WCO throwback pipe dream.

What do you propose then ? I can only think of a WCO type playbook, where the QB doesnt have to hold the ball too long. Maybe you're mistaking that as me claiming that we should throw away Raye's playbook and dust off Walsh/Montana's skit from the 80s. You dont need to overhaul your offense; all you need is to implement more short passes into your current format. Not tough to do, especially since it seems like our basic offense is tun off of 5 basic schemes.....

I propose this: Fix the o-line.

Repeat...fix the o-line.

Say again: FIX THE f**kING O-LINE

Just to be clear: Fix the o-line.

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Then come talk, cause' otherwise, your pissin' in the wind.

Someone speaks the truth. yes the system can use some help but #1 is the lines inability to block fwd. its not like they are doing crazy stunts or anything. they are supposed to be doing downhill blocking. I.E straight fwd. i can guarantee that Peterson has seen just as much 8 man fronts all yr as gore and coffee. the main difference is that they are opening holes. why do you think that most of the time the 1st person to touch AP is a safety or corner. yes he hits the holes fast and hard but still his line is blocking for him. yes they have farve but they didn't have him last yr and there is no way in hell you can tell me that they qb last yr was even better than rattay better yet hill. we have to block better. maybe some roll outs would help though
  • Squirrel
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by E-49er:
Thats all nice and dandy and the WCO is probably the best offense to fit hin, problem is we are not installing the WCO mid season. We are going to have to deal with the players we have and hope the play calling improves and the offense starts showing signs of cohesiveness.

Agreed. It's good to dream, but i'm not expecting any major overhauls during the bye week. It's probably bad for the offense to do anything that dramatic as well.

I also think Raye is too stubborn to change his philosophy.

-9fA

Stubbornness doesn't have anything to do with it. Using the personnel you have as best you can does. He simply doesn't have many horses to work with. He has a QB that can only do so much (and that's not a lot, it's just enough) and an o-line that is playing like s**t in run and pass. He couldn't do any major philosophy change even if he wanted to.

What's he gonna do under those terms? Have Hill throw more? Run more? Balls to the wall Tazer? 20 receiver sets?

News flash: None if it works without competence in the trench's.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how we could be using our talent better than what we are, aside from some WCO throwback pipe dream.

What do you propose then ? I can only think of a WCO type playbook, where the QB doesnt have to hold the ball too long. Maybe you're mistaking that as me claiming that we should throw away Raye's playbook and dust off Walsh/Montana's skit from the 80s. You dont need to overhaul your offense; all you need is to implement more short passes into your current format. Not tough to do, especially since it seems like our basic offense is tun off of 5 basic schemes.....

I propose this: Fix the o-line.

Repeat...fix the o-line.

Say again: FIX THE f**kING O-LINE

Just to be clear: Fix the o-line.

Fix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix 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Then come talk, cause' otherwise, your pissin' in the wind.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting that we get a new quarterback?
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by E-49er:
Thats all nice and dandy and the WCO is probably the best offense to fit hin, problem is we are not installing the WCO mid season. We are going to have to deal with the players we have and hope the play calling improves and the offense starts showing signs of cohesiveness.

Agreed. It's good to dream, but i'm not expecting any major overhauls during the bye week. It's probably bad for the offense to do anything that dramatic as well.

I also think Raye is too stubborn to change his philosophy.

-9fA

Stubbornness doesn't have anything to do with it. Using the personnel you have as best you can does. He simply doesn't have many horses to work with. He has a QB that can only do so much (and that's not a lot, it's just enough) and an o-line that is playing like s**t in run and pass. He couldn't do any major philosophy change even if he wanted to.

What's he gonna do under those terms? Have Hill throw more? Run more? Balls to the wall Tazer? 20 receiver sets?

News flash: None if it works without competence in the trench's.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how we could be using our talent better than what we are, aside from some WCO throwback pipe dream.

What do you propose then ? I can only think of a WCO type playbook, where the QB doesnt have to hold the ball too long. Maybe you're mistaking that as me claiming that we should throw away Raye's playbook and dust off Walsh/Montana's skit from the 80s. You dont need to overhaul your offense; all you need is to implement more short passes into your current format. Not tough to do, especially since it seems like our basic offense is tun off of 5 basic schemes.....

I propose this: Fix the o-line.

Repeat...fix the o-line.

Say again: FIX THE f**kING O-LINE

Just to be clear: Fix the o-line.

Fix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix 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Then come talk, cause' otherwise, your pissin' in the wind.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting that we get a new quarterback?

  • Blitz
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,858
Originally posted by 49ers1fan1982:
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by E-49er:
Thats all nice and dandy and the WCO is probably the best offense to fit hin, problem is we are not installing the WCO mid season. We are going to have to deal with the players we have and hope the play calling improves and the offense starts showing signs of cohesiveness.

Agreed. It's good to dream, but i'm not expecting any major overhauls during the bye week. It's probably bad for the offense to do anything that dramatic as well.

I also think Raye is too stubborn to change his philosophy.

-9fA

Stubbornness doesn't have anything to do with it. Using the personnel you have as best you can does. He simply doesn't have many horses to work with. He has a QB that can only do so much (and that's not a lot, it's just enough) and an o-line that is playing like s**t in run and pass. He couldn't do any major philosophy change even if he wanted to.

What's he gonna do under those terms? Have Hill throw more? Run more? Balls to the wall Tazer? 20 receiver sets?

News flash: None if it works without competence in the trench's.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how we could be using our talent better than what we are, aside from some WCO throwback pipe dream.

What do you propose then ? I can only think of a WCO type playbook, where the QB doesnt have to hold the ball too long. Maybe you're mistaking that as me claiming that we should throw away Raye's playbook and dust off Walsh/Montana's skit from the 80s. You dont need to overhaul your offense; all you need is to implement more short passes into your current format. Not tough to do, especially since it seems like our basic offense is tun off of 5 basic schemes.....

I propose this: Fix the o-line.

Repeat...fix the o-line.

Say again: FIX THE f**kING O-LINE

Just to be clear: Fix the o-line.

Fix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix 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Then come talk, cause' otherwise, your pissin' in the wind.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting that we get a new quarterback?




Believe it or not, sadly, there are some real knuckleheads in the zone who still wouldn't get the hint, even though it's slappin' them in the face at every turn, year in and year out. WTF, this is the same o-line conversation that's been going on for three years now...pathetic o-line....and STILL some people can't get it.

Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by 49ers1fan1982:
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by E-49er:
Thats all nice and dandy and the WCO is probably the best offense to fit hin, problem is we are not installing the WCO mid season. We are going to have to deal with the players we have and hope the play calling improves and the offense starts showing signs of cohesiveness.

Agreed. It's good to dream, but i'm not expecting any major overhauls during the bye week. It's probably bad for the offense to do anything that dramatic as well.

I also think Raye is too stubborn to change his philosophy.

-9fA

Stubbornness doesn't have anything to do with it. Using the personnel you have as best you can does. He simply doesn't have many horses to work with. He has a QB that can only do so much (and that's not a lot, it's just enough) and an o-line that is playing like s**t in run and pass. He couldn't do any major philosophy change even if he wanted to.

What's he gonna do under those terms? Have Hill throw more? Run more? Balls to the wall Tazer? 20 receiver sets?

News flash: None if it works without competence in the trench's.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how we could be using our talent better than what we are, aside from some WCO throwback pipe dream.

What do you propose then ? I can only think of a WCO type playbook, where the QB doesnt have to hold the ball too long. Maybe you're mistaking that as me claiming that we should throw away Raye's playbook and dust off Walsh/Montana's skit from the 80s. You dont need to overhaul your offense; all you need is to implement more short passes into your current format. Not tough to do, especially since it seems like our basic offense is tun off of 5 basic schemes.....

I propose this: Fix the o-line.

Repeat...fix the o-line.

Say again: FIX THE f**kING O-LINE

Just to be clear: Fix the o-line.

Fix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix 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Then come talk, cause' otherwise, your pissin' in the wind.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting that we get a new quarterback?




Believe it or not, sadly, there are some real knuckleheads in the zone who still wouldn't get the hint, even though it's slappin' them in the face at every turn, year in and year out. WTF, this is the same o-line conversation that's been going on for three years now...pathetic o-line....and STILL some people can't get it.


I hope that Singletary reads this and gets it.
  • Blitz
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,858
Originally posted by 49ers1fan1982:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by 49ers1fan1982:
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by E-49er:
Thats all nice and dandy and the WCO is probably the best offense to fit hin, problem is we are not installing the WCO mid season. We are going to have to deal with the players we have and hope the play calling improves and the offense starts showing signs of cohesiveness.

Agreed. It's good to dream, but i'm not expecting any major overhauls during the bye week. It's probably bad for the offense to do anything that dramatic as well.

I also think Raye is too stubborn to change his philosophy.

-9fA

Stubbornness doesn't have anything to do with it. Using the personnel you have as best you can does. He simply doesn't have many horses to work with. He has a QB that can only do so much (and that's not a lot, it's just enough) and an o-line that is playing like s**t in run and pass. He couldn't do any major philosophy change even if he wanted to.

What's he gonna do under those terms? Have Hill throw more? Run more? Balls to the wall Tazer? 20 receiver sets?

News flash: None if it works without competence in the trench's.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how we could be using our talent better than what we are, aside from some WCO throwback pipe dream.

What do you propose then ? I can only think of a WCO type playbook, where the QB doesnt have to hold the ball too long. Maybe you're mistaking that as me claiming that we should throw away Raye's playbook and dust off Walsh/Montana's skit from the 80s. You dont need to overhaul your offense; all you need is to implement more short passes into your current format. Not tough to do, especially since it seems like our basic offense is tun off of 5 basic schemes.....

I propose this: Fix the o-line.

Repeat...fix the o-line.

Say again: FIX THE f**kING O-LINE

Just to be clear: Fix the o-line.

Fix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix 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Then come talk, cause' otherwise, your pissin' in the wind.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting that we get a new quarterback?




Believe it or not, sadly, there are some real knuckleheads in the zone who still wouldn't get the hint, even though it's slappin' them in the face at every turn, year in and year out. WTF, this is the same o-line conversation that's been going on for three years now...pathetic o-line....and STILL some people can't get it.


I hope that Singletary reads this and gets it.

Pretty sure he does. I'm sue he will get it fixed come hell or high water. He just may not be able to get it done as soon as he, you or I would like. But, I believe, rest assured, he will get it done.
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by 49ers1fan1982:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by 49ers1fan1982:
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by E-49er:
Thats all nice and dandy and the WCO is probably the best offense to fit hin, problem is we are not installing the WCO mid season. We are going to have to deal with the players we have and hope the play calling improves and the offense starts showing signs of cohesiveness.

Agreed. It's good to dream, but i'm not expecting any major overhauls during the bye week. It's probably bad for the offense to do anything that dramatic as well.

I also think Raye is too stubborn to change his philosophy.

-9fA

Stubbornness doesn't have anything to do with it. Using the personnel you have as best you can does. He simply doesn't have many horses to work with. He has a QB that can only do so much (and that's not a lot, it's just enough) and an o-line that is playing like s**t in run and pass. He couldn't do any major philosophy change even if he wanted to.

What's he gonna do under those terms? Have Hill throw more? Run more? Balls to the wall Tazer? 20 receiver sets?

News flash: None if it works without competence in the trench's.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how we could be using our talent better than what we are, aside from some WCO throwback pipe dream.

What do you propose then ? I can only think of a WCO type playbook, where the QB doesnt have to hold the ball too long. Maybe you're mistaking that as me claiming that we should throw away Raye's playbook and dust off Walsh/Montana's skit from the 80s. You dont need to overhaul your offense; all you need is to implement more short passes into your current format. Not tough to do, especially since it seems like our basic offense is tun off of 5 basic schemes.....

I propose this: Fix the o-line.

Repeat...fix the o-line.

Say again: FIX THE f**kING O-LINE

Just to be clear: Fix the o-line.

Fix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix the o-lineFix 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Then come talk, cause' otherwise, your pissin' in the wind.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting that we get a new quarterback?




Believe it or not, sadly, there are some real knuckleheads in the zone who still wouldn't get the hint, even though it's slappin' them in the face at every turn, year in and year out. WTF, this is the same o-line conversation that's been going on for three years now...pathetic o-line....and STILL some people can't get it.


I hope that Singletary reads this and gets it.

Pretty sure he does. I'm sue he will get it fixed come hell or high water. He just may not be able to get it done as soon as he, you or I would like. But, I believe, rest assured, he will get it done.

Amen! Preach on, Brother Blitz!

Singletary clearly recognizes the importance to the entire team, to the whole season, of the O line. This team is not likely to go anywhere the way the OL is presently playing.

One wonders what the problem is. We try to run and lose a yard at a time. The other team tries to run and gains--even if its just a yard at a time. Doesn't seem to matter who we're playing.

Is it the talent? Is it the effort/motivation? Is it coaching? Is it scheme? Is it the chemistry?

One thing for sure: its aggravating to watch.
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