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Heard on KNBR on why we looked lost on the deep ball

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
I don't know which player it was but they said

"The reason that we didn't do well at all during those plays, is that we didn't practice those"

Is Raye this stubborn not to practice the deep ball? No wonder Hill looks so lost out there on deep routes, if you don't practice them how are you supposed to connect with your receivers?


When are they supposed to practice deep passes? They've got all those f**king SCREEN passes to practice!
Unfortunately, when we telegraph run, run, run, then why even attempt to cover the deep ball? The only way we are going to open up the run game is by throwing some deep balls. Since our oline sucks, we can't use the normal run-setups-pass method. For us it's the other way around, unfortunately, if we don't practice it then our pipi is in the grinder. We are screwed.
The biggest reason as to why our long-ball sucks is due to the fact that our receiving core, specially Josh Morgan, was told to bulk up during the strenuous off-season, for being restricted to blocking and play-action situations.

The fastest slot/clutch receiver on our roster is being forced to the back of the depth chart (Jason Hill). This team's gameplan was built to its overall strengths, and around a QB that can't throw a zipped ball more than 30 yards without the worry of an interception.

The pre-season was the biggest tell-tale sign, when Shaun Hill was crutching off of his RBs, and Nate Davis was gutting it down-field to Jason Hill and PS fullbacks/tight ends.
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by singfan:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
I don't know which player it was but they said

"The reason that we didn't do well at all during those plays, is that we didn't practice those"

Is Raye this stubborn not to practice the deep ball? No wonder Hill looks so lost out there on deep routes, if you don't practice them how are you supposed to connect with your receivers?


This is not the philosophy of our HC. We're going to run, even when they know we're going to run, remember?

We have a 56% pass to run ratio! Well if you include the sacks as a pass play. But doesn't include Hill's scrambles as called pass plays.

See please stop with the all we do is run mumbo jumbo! ALL OF YOU!

No dice.

That ratio is due to the fact that we set ourselves up for 3rd and long most of the time, and then pass a lot at the end of the game when we are behind (3 out of 5 games so far).

Teams are still ready and waiting to stop our run on first and second down in the first half of games.
How do you practice throwing it deep when you can barely do so to begin with? His arm would be blown out I'm sure within a few practice throws.
  • Blitz
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Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
The biggest reason as to why our long-ball sucks is due to the fact that our receiving core, specially Josh Morgan, was told to bulk up during the strenuous off-season, for being restricted to blocking and play-action situations.

The fastest slot/clutch receiver on our roster is being forced to the back of the depth chart (Jason Hill). This team's gameplan was built to its overall strengths, and around a QB that can't throw a zipped ball more than 30 yards without the worry of an interception.

The pre-season was the biggest tell-tale sign, when Shaun Hill was crutching off of his RBs, and Nate Davis was gutting it down-field to Jason Hill and PS fullbacks/tight ends.

This part I bolded. Dead on.

When somebody arises up who can supplant Hill and zip that ball in on the hardest routes for a QB to throw (routes Hill can't throw worth a s**t... how many medium and deep out routes have we seen that are incomplete due to the throw? Too many.), the game plan will probably change to play to that strength as well. Until then, we are stuck with what we have offensively, which ain't very much, simply due to the horses we have.

Change the game plan with the current personnel we have, and defenses will just skin the same cat a different way because we will still have the same inherent weakness in our personnel.The coaches can only do so much with the horses they have whether it's game plan A or game plan B.
  • B650
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Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
The biggest reason as to why our long-ball sucks is due to the fact that our receiving core, specially Josh Morgan, was told to bulk up during the strenuous off-season, for being restricted to blocking and play-action situations.

The fastest slot/clutch receiver on our roster is being forced to the back of the depth chart (Jason Hill). This team's gameplan was built to its overall strengths, and around a QB that can't throw a zipped ball more than 30 yards without the worry of an interception.

The pre-season was the biggest tell-tale sign, when Shaun Hill was crutching off of his RBs, and Nate Davis was gutting it down-field to Jason Hill and PS fullbacks/tight ends.

This part I bolded. Dead on.

When somebody arises up who can supplant Hill and zip that ball in on the hardest routes for a QB to throw (routes Hill can't throw worth a s**t... how many medium and deep out routes have we seen that are incomplete due to the throw? Too many.), the game plan will probably change to play to that strength as well. Until then, we are stuck with what we have offensively, which ain't very much, simply due to the horses we have.

Change the game plan with the current personnel we have, and defenses will just skin the same cat a different way because we will still have the same inherent weakness in our personnel.The coaches can only do so much with the horses they have whether it's game plan A or game plan B.

Then maybe we should put somebody in who can throw instead of building the offense around someone who throws ducks. It's interesting though that this same player who throws ducks was successful under Mike Martz.

[ Edited by B650 on Oct 13, 2009 at 16:34:10 ]
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
The biggest reason as to why our long-ball sucks is due to the fact that our receiving core, specially Josh Morgan, was told to bulk up during the strenuous off-season, for being restricted to blocking and play-action situations.

The fastest slot/clutch receiver on our roster is being forced to the back of the depth chart (Jason Hill). This team's gameplan was built to its overall strengths, and around a QB that can't throw a zipped ball more than 30 yards without the worry of an interception.

The pre-season was the biggest tell-tale sign, when Shaun Hill was crutching off of his RBs, and Nate Davis was gutting it down-field to Jason Hill and PS fullbacks/tight ends.

This part I bolded. Dead on.

When somebody arises up who can supplant Hill and zip that ball in on the hardest routes for a QB to throw (routes Hill can't throw worth a s**t... how many medium and deep out routes have we seen that are incomplete due to the throw? Too many.), the game plan will probably change to play to that strength as well. Until then, we are stuck with what we have offensively, which ain't very much, simply due to the horses we have.

Change the game plan with the current personnel we have, and defenses will just skin the same cat a different way because we will still have the same inherent weakness in our personnel.The coaches can only do so much with the horses they have whether it's game plan A or game plan B.

This especially goes for slants -- I think Hill may have been trying to compensate for that issue and whip the ball out on Sunday way too soon and to an unaware wide-out.

I want to see quick slants, but I want a QB that can zip it where it needs to go. Smith and Davis are much better in this area. I recall a TD pass to Battle by Smith in 06 where the commentators specifically touched on how Smith put the ball exactly where it needed to be where only the WR can get it.

Davis had the same issue Smith has had, as they both have very strong arms, but I believe our QB Coach, Mike Johnson, has worked with them on taking some off and putting touch on their passes. I'm sure both have gotten better since the pre-season and I wouldn't feel uncomfortable if Smith had to enter a game. It'd actually be kind of exciting.. Might finally see some big plays.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen Hill tuck the ball and not throw it to someone wide open because he knew if he did the pass would take so long to get there it might be batted down or intercepted..

[ Edited by OnTheClock on Oct 13, 2009 at 16:37:12 ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
I don't know which player it was but they said

"The reason that we didn't do well at all during those plays, is that we didn't practice those"

Is Raye this stubborn not to practice the deep ball? No wonder Hill looks so lost out there on deep routes, if you don't practice them how are you supposed to connect with your receivers?


It was also reported that when Coffee came to the 49ers, he liked to bounce it outside and Raye ripped him a new one ensuring he ONLY run up the gut (ala Gore too). The commentators last Sunday were perplexed by this. Hmmmmm

And I believe that it was on a bounce outside- run play that he scored on....hmmm
  • Blitz
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Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
The biggest reason as to why our long-ball sucks is due to the fact that our receiving core, specially Josh Morgan, was told to bulk up during the strenuous off-season, for being restricted to blocking and play-action situations.

The fastest slot/clutch receiver on our roster is being forced to the back of the depth chart (Jason Hill). This team's gameplan was built to its overall strengths, and around a QB that can't throw a zipped ball more than 30 yards without the worry of an interception.

The pre-season was the biggest tell-tale sign, when Shaun Hill was crutching off of his RBs, and Nate Davis was gutting it down-field to Jason Hill and PS fullbacks/tight ends.

This part I bolded. Dead on.

When somebody arises up who can supplant Hill and zip that ball in on the hardest routes for a QB to throw (routes Hill can't throw worth a s**t... how many medium and deep out routes have we seen that are incomplete due to the throw? Too many.), the game plan will probably change to play to that strength as well. Until then, we are stuck with what we have offensively, which ain't very much, simply due to the horses we have.

Change the game plan with the current personnel we have, and defenses will just skin the same cat a different way because we will still have the same inherent weakness in our personnel.The coaches can only do so much with the horses they have whether it's game plan A or game plan B.

This especially goes for slants -- I think Hill may have been trying to compensate for that issue and whip the ball out on Sunday way too soon and to an unaware wide-out.

I want to see quick slants, but I want a QB that can zip it where it needs to go. Smith and Davis are much better in this area. I recall a TD pass to Battle by Smith in 06 where the commentators specifically touched on how Smith put the ball exactly where it needed to be where only the WR can get it.

Davis had the same issue Smith has had, as they both have very strong arms, but I believe our QB Coach, Mike Johnson, has worked with them on taking some off and putting touch on their passes. I'm sure both have gotten better since the pre-season and I wouldn't feel uncomfortable if Smith had to enter a game. It'd actually be kind of exciting.. Might finally see some big plays.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen Hill tuck the ball and not throw it to someone wide open because he knew if he did the pass would take so long to get there it might be batted down or intercepted..

All true. People don't seem to realize that the offense is playing on a smaller field, and defenses are defending a smaller field because of the inherent weakness with Hill as QB. That makes things difficult as hell for an offense, and much easier for an opposing defense. Now throw in a f**ked up o-line and bingo, you have a nice pile of stinky s**t.
  • Blitz
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Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by Blitz:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
The biggest reason as to why our long-ball sucks is due to the fact that our receiving core, specially Josh Morgan, was told to bulk up during the strenuous off-season, for being restricted to blocking and play-action situations.

The fastest slot/clutch receiver on our roster is being forced to the back of the depth chart (Jason Hill). This team's gameplan was built to its overall strengths, and around a QB that can't throw a zipped ball more than 30 yards without the worry of an interception.

The pre-season was the biggest tell-tale sign, when Shaun Hill was crutching off of his RBs, and Nate Davis was gutting it down-field to Jason Hill and PS fullbacks/tight ends.

This part I bolded. Dead on.

When somebody arises up who can supplant Hill and zip that ball in on the hardest routes for a QB to throw (routes Hill can't throw worth a s**t... how many medium and deep out routes have we seen that are incomplete due to the throw? Too many.), the game plan will probably change to play to that strength as well. Until then, we are stuck with what we have offensively, which ain't very much, simply due to the horses we have.

Change the game plan with the current personnel we have, and defenses will just skin the same cat a different way because we will still have the same inherent weakness in our personnel.The coaches can only do so much with the horses they have whether it's game plan A or game plan B.

Then maybe we should put somebody in who can throw instead of building the offense around someone who throws ducks. It's interesting though that this same player who throws ducks was successful under Mike Martz.

I don't know where people are getting this successful with Martz theme from. Martz ranked 22nd in points per game and 23rd in yardage. That is not the definition of success in this league. It is the definition of getting by. Hill, at one point had to beg not to be benched by Singletary. Again, that is not the definition of successful, it is the definition of getting by. The 2009 comes around and dosn't do anything to really distinguish himslef in the QB competition. That's not successful, it's getting by.

Lets tell the truth. The general consensus of Hill since he has had his shot is that he has done just enough to win and not much more. Again, that is not the definition of success...it's the definition of getting by.

[ Edited by Blitz on Oct 13, 2009 at 17:24:16 ]
  • Blitz
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Originally posted by simplyfloyd:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
I don't know which player it was but they said

"The reason that we didn't do well at all during those plays, is that we didn't practice those"

Is Raye this stubborn not to practice the deep ball? No wonder Hill looks so lost out there on deep routes, if you don't practice them how are you supposed to connect with your receivers?


It was also reported that when Coffee came to the 49ers, he liked to bounce it outside and Raye ripped him a new one ensuring he ONLY run up the gut (ala Gore too). The commentators last Sunday were perplexed by this. Hmmmmm

And I believe that it was on a bounce outside- run play that he scored on....hmmm

That's not wholly true ncommand. He was told not to do the typical rookie RB s**t of trying to do a little shake and bake in the backfield then decide to take everything outside. Lots of rookie RB's come into this league with that habit from college...they can get away with a little dancing and then taking it outside because it's a slower game. That's why they "like to take it outside". He was told to knock that rookie s**t off because he was getting his ass eaten up by the much quicker player's that are the norm instead of the exception (like in college) at the pro level.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by singfan:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
I don't know which player it was but they said

"The reason that we didn't do well at all during those plays, is that we didn't practice those"

Is Raye this stubborn not to practice the deep ball? No wonder Hill looks so lost out there on deep routes, if you don't practice them how are you supposed to connect with your receivers?


This is not the philosophy of our HC. We're going to run, even when they know we're going to run, remember?

We have a 56% pass to run ratio! Well if you include the sacks as a pass play. But doesn't include Hill's scrambles as called pass plays.

See please stop with the all we do is run mumbo jumbo! ALL OF YOU!

No dice.

That ratio is due to the fact that we set ourselves up for 3rd and long most of the time, and then pass a lot at the end of the game when we are behind (3 out of 5 games so far).

Teams are still ready and waiting to stop our run on first and second down in the first half of games.

Yep, that's our perfect offensive balance: Run 100% in the 1st half, Pass 100% in the 2nd half. 50/50 Offensive balance.

Why is everyone complaining about a lack of balance?
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
How do you practice throwing it deep when you can barely do so to begin with? His arm would be blown out I'm sure within a few practice throws.

I just found practice tape of Hill throwing deep!!

Shuan Hill's deep ball is just fine. Our offensive line won't give him more than 2 sec.