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A Fun Two Weeks of Competition Across the Offense

Has anyone realized why Bruce looks sooooo much older than he did last year?

i understand fully that he is way past his prime, but he was still a solid, leading reciever for us last year.

He is being used so poorly to his own abilities in Raye's offense, its sickening. He is running fkn fade go routes on the sideline, trying to outrun the Cornerback? sh*t, if Raye used Jerry Rice to his strengths like he uses Bruce, no one would even know who he is. Bruce is NOT cut out to go in motion and try to do crossing routes after getting pushed off by big linebackers, and have Shaun hill throw up ducks to him on go routes and make a miraculous catch on the sideline.

He is built for deep ins, outs, dig routs, smash routes, everything that has to do with precise route running, and nothing to do with speed....Raye is so bad i can't believe he has gotten fired yet. Bruce can still produce strictly off of his un real route running, he just can't show it right now with the way he is being utilized in this JOKE of an offense.

[ Edited by DynastyChile on Oct 12, 2009 at 13:45:59 ]
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,299
IF Hill coninues to struggle I don't think Sing will waste anytime in giving Smith a shot.
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Look like MM's Twitter page has listed in a couple of his last entries some answers to our pressing questions.

Rossum cut.
Wragge potential to take over for Rachal.

I still think the Niners cut a WR. We currently have SEVEN on our roster:
Morgan-Bruce-Jones-Battle-Crabtree-Hill-Spurlock.

Since the Niners seemed to have cooked the Wildcat to a crisp charcoal substance, Spurlock has to be the next to go. However, you never know.

Does battle take over KR responsibilities then?

We need someone to take a sturdy hold on that role.

Battle looks to be the man.

Wouldn't be surprised if we target someone with return abilities in the draft.

I do not hold anything against battle, but I wonder how much longer he has on the team. Nagging knee injuries wont help prolong the career of a WR who is already a situational player.

He's already becoming a utility guy, and that will continue to be his biggest role as the season progresses. If Jones can get healthy, Battle is down to the fifth WR by the end of the season.

However, he is the primary PR guy for right now, and is well-liked and respected in the locker room.
Some GREAT observations here:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
1) Rachal vs. Wragge vs. Snyder- While Rachal is far more athletic, the bottom line is that he is struggling. Struggling against a backup lineman last week with the Rams, struggling this week against the Falcons; heck, he's struggled all year. While is has been more convenient for fans to blast Baas (since he will probably depart in FA this year, and Rachal is young), Rachal simply has been terrible in pass protection. He is a lost puppy right now. Wragge is a savvy vet who may need to give the kid a break to get his head together. I have added Snyder just in case he is the loser of the battle below.

Agree -- to a point. I don't think Chilo is going anywhere. He's the future at right guard. Wragge will never be anything but a backup.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
2) Snyder vs. Pashos- A showdown between two mediocre RT's, I've got a feeling that the extra two weeks in this offense will help Pashos, and he will emerge the starter. This would allow Snyder the potential to move inside to replace Rachal or Baas. We need to get our best five guys on the field, and Snyder would be better than Rachal at this point of the season.

Agreed. This is Snyder's third year in the league and despite practicing at RT through camps, he's still struggling. Maybe it's time for a change.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
3) Bruce vs. Jones vs. Crabtree vs. Battle vs. Hill- So, who wants to be the starter next to Morgan? It seems like Morgan has emerged as the top guy the past two weeks (although besides his breakway run yesterday, we still did not see much). However, he is contributing, something we are not seeing elsewhere. Bruce looks like he is 80 years old. Jones is coming back from injury. Battle has been sitting on the sidelines a lot due to Raye's offense, and Hill has been playing special teams. I expect the Niners to give Jones every shot to move up the depth chart and possibly push for a starting role. Crabtree is not going to be ready for the full package, so he's competing for the third WR role. This will be a fun week to see who gets the chance to start and play backup.

Agreed. While I would love to see Crabtree emerge, it's not going to happen until very late in the season, if at all this year.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
And, I think someone surprising is going to get cut this week: Hill? Battle? Rossum? Even with Spurlock headed to the waiver wire, I'm just not convinced the Niners will keep 6 WR's, and a PR. I could be wrong.

Rossum is gone already. Do you think we'll see another? Spurlock? Not sure. But we're top-heavy here. Can Crabtree return kicks?

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
4) Smith vs. Hill- I fully expect Singletary to allow Smith some first team reps, and this may be his shot to run the offense. I still expect Hill to emerge the starter after the bye, but Hill was pretty shaky, and the passing game has been inconsistent all season. So, if Smith lights it up in practice, we may see a change. Something has to pump up this dreadful offense.

STRONGLY DISAGREE. I'm surprised at you MadDog. What QB was going to save us from yesterday's 45 point meltdown? Montana? Young? Brodie? DeBerg? Spurrier? Shaun Hill isn't to blame for the quick strike scores and long drives allowed by our defense. No QB could have kept up with that defensive collapse. No way Smith gets a shot. I just don't see it happening.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
P.S. As for the defense, I'm not going to panic. I think they simply had a bad game, and this unit simply needs to move on. If it becomes a week-to-week issue like the offense, then we have a major problem.

Agreed. I think this was a bad game myself. Which makes me wonder about your Alex Smith comment even more. You want to give Alex reps at QB because the defense got torched for 45 points?
  • jerryricefan80
  • Info N/A
So too much has been made of the game yesterday but problems are all of a sudden "far and wide"? I disagree. This team beat 3 teams with losing records. Only managed two offensive touchdowns against the Rams, played a mostly uninspiring offensive game against the Cardinals and relied solely on our workhorse for the game against Seattle. I think too much was made of our winning streak to begin with. The wins put lipstick on the pig that is our offense. They can only play on emotion for so long.

It's Raye's job to put our offensive weapons in position to succeed. Running Bruce on screens and Go routes is one example of just how mediocre the play calling can be at times. Knowing your line is porous means creating outlets that take advantage of blitzes or pressure. Morgan's big play is a perfect example of a strength the Niners need to exploit more often. Match him up 1 on 1 against a corner and let him out-physical the guy to break off a big gainer.

The team relies too heavily on their defense to win games. The offense needs to step up. I think the team will do that by A) Looking into how they can change the playbook to take advantage of the strengths of this team and B) Adding through perhaps a trade and FA. Singletary alluded to as much in his presser.
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Some GREAT observations here:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
1) Rachal vs. Wragge vs. Snyder- While Rachal is far more athletic, the bottom line is that he is struggling. Struggling against a backup lineman last week with the Rams, struggling this week against the Falcons; heck, he's struggled all year. While is has been more convenient for fans to blast Baas (since he will probably depart in FA this year, and Rachal is young), Rachal simply has been terrible in pass protection. He is a lost puppy right now. Wragge is a savvy vet who may need to give the kid a break to get his head together. I have added Snyder just in case he is the loser of the battle below.

Agree -- to a point. I don't think Chilo is going anywhere. He's the future at right guard. Wragge will never be anything but a backup.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
2) Snyder vs. Pashos- A showdown between two mediocre RT's, I've got a feeling that the extra two weeks in this offense will help Pashos, and he will emerge the starter. This would allow Snyder the potential to move inside to replace Rachal or Baas. We need to get our best five guys on the field, and Snyder would be better than Rachal at this point of the season.

Agreed. This is Snyder's third year in the league and despite practicing at RT through camps, he's still struggling. Maybe it's time for a change.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
3) Bruce vs. Jones vs. Crabtree vs. Battle vs. Hill- So, who wants to be the starter next to Morgan? It seems like Morgan has emerged as the top guy the past two weeks (although besides his breakway run yesterday, we still did not see much). However, he is contributing, something we are not seeing elsewhere. Bruce looks like he is 80 years old. Jones is coming back from injury. Battle has been sitting on the sidelines a lot due to Raye's offense, and Hill has been playing special teams. I expect the Niners to give Jones every shot to move up the depth chart and possibly push for a starting role. Crabtree is not going to be ready for the full package, so he's competing for the third WR role. This will be a fun week to see who gets the chance to start and play backup.

Agreed. While I would love to see Crabtree emerge, it's not going to happen until very late in the season, if at all this year.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
And, I think someone surprising is going to get cut this week: Hill? Battle? Rossum? Even with Spurlock headed to the waiver wire, I'm just not convinced the Niners will keep 6 WR's, and a PR. I could be wrong.

Rossum is gone already. Do you think we'll see another? Spurlock? Not sure. But we're top-heavy here. Can Crabtree return kicks?

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
4) Smith vs. Hill- I fully expect Singletary to allow Smith some first team reps, and this may be his shot to run the offense. I still expect Hill to emerge the starter after the bye, but Hill was pretty shaky, and the passing game has been inconsistent all season. So, if Smith lights it up in practice, we may see a change. Something has to pump up this dreadful offense.

STRONGLY DISAGREE. I'm surprised at you MadDog. What QB was going to save us from yesterday's 45 point meltdown? Montana? Young? Brodie? DeBerg? Spurrier? Shaun Hill isn't to blame for the quick strike scores and long drives allowed by our defense. No QB could have kept up with that defensive collapse. No way Smith gets a shot. I just don't see it happening.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
P.S. As for the defense, I'm not going to panic. I think they simply had a bad game, and this unit simply needs to move on. If it becomes a week-to-week issue like the offense, then we have a major problem.

Agreed. I think this was a bad game myself. Which makes me wonder about your Alex Smith comment even more. You want to give Alex reps at QB because the defense got torched for 45 points?

I'm not advocating reps for Smith, but I think he will pick up some. While there was no way Hill could have beaten the Falcons on Sunday, his play was simply not very good. Even when protection was solid, his game was really off.

Let's be honest, Hill's performance has regressed since last year. Whether it is due to this offense, being the regular season starter, a combination of unfulfilled expectations from Morgan and an aging Bruce, or some form of chemistry problems, the passing game is struggling. Part of it is surely OL play, but part of it is being unable to make big throws at critical times.

So, while I am willing to continue to give Hill the start at QB, at some point the offense is going to need some form of jumpstart. And, that may come at QB.

As for Rachal, my note was that the kid needs a break to get his head together. I am not advocating a dumping.
  • Blitz
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Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Has anyone realized why Bruce looks sooooo much older than he did last year?

i understand fully that he is way past his prime, but he was still a solid, leading reciever for us last year.

He is being used so poorly to his own abilities in Raye's offense, its sickening. He is running fkn fade go routes on the sideline, trying to outrun the Cornerback? sh*t, if Raye used Jerry Rice to his strengths like he uses Bruce, no one would even know who he is. Bruce is NOT cut out to go in motion and try to do crossing routes after getting pushed off by big linebackers, and have Shaun hill throw up ducks to him on go routes and make a miraculous catch on the sideline.

He is built for deep ins, outs, dig routs, smash routes, everything that has to do with precise route running, and nothing to do with speed....Raye is so bad i can't believe he has gotten fired yet. Bruce can still produce strictly off of his un real route running, he just can't show it right now with the way he is being utilized in this JOKE of an offense.

Bruce has been dropping a lot of balls lately as well. Is that Rayes fault too?
I would like to see Michael Spurlock returning kicks and punts. He's done it before when he was with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Originally posted by billbird2111:
Some GREAT observations here:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
1) Rachal vs. Wragge vs. Snyder- While Rachal is far more athletic, the bottom line is that he is struggling. Struggling against a backup lineman last week with the Rams, struggling this week against the Falcons; heck, he's struggled all year. While is has been more convenient for fans to blast Baas (since he will probably depart in FA this year, and Rachal is young), Rachal simply has been terrible in pass protection. He is a lost puppy right now. Wragge is a savvy vet who may need to give the kid a break to get his head together. I have added Snyder just in case he is the loser of the battle below.

Agree -- to a point. I don't think Chilo is going anywhere. He's the future at right guard. Wragge will never be anything but a backup.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
2) Snyder vs. Pashos- A showdown between two mediocre RT's, I've got a feeling that the extra two weeks in this offense will help Pashos, and he will emerge the starter. This would allow Snyder the potential to move inside to replace Rachal or Baas. We need to get our best five guys on the field, and Snyder would be better than Rachal at this point of the season.

Agreed. This is Snyder's third year in the league and despite practicing at RT through camps, he's still struggling. Maybe it's time for a change.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
3) Bruce vs. Jones vs. Crabtree vs. Battle vs. Hill- So, who wants to be the starter next to Morgan? It seems like Morgan has emerged as the top guy the past two weeks (although besides his breakway run yesterday, we still did not see much). However, he is contributing, something we are not seeing elsewhere. Bruce looks like he is 80 years old. Jones is coming back from injury. Battle has been sitting on the sidelines a lot due to Raye's offense, and Hill has been playing special teams. I expect the Niners to give Jones every shot to move up the depth chart and possibly push for a starting role. Crabtree is not going to be ready for the full package, so he's competing for the third WR role. This will be a fun week to see who gets the chance to start and play backup.

Agreed. While I would love to see Crabtree emerge, it's not going to happen until very late in the season, if at all this year.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
And, I think someone surprising is going to get cut this week: Hill? Battle? Rossum? Even with Spurlock headed to the waiver wire, I'm just not convinced the Niners will keep 6 WR's, and a PR. I could be wrong.

Rossum is gone already. Do you think we'll see another? Spurlock? Not sure. But we're top-heavy here. Can Crabtree return kicks?

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
4) Smith vs. Hill- I fully expect Singletary to allow Smith some first team reps, and this may be his shot to run the offense. I still expect Hill to emerge the starter after the bye, but Hill was pretty shaky, and the passing game has been inconsistent all season. So, if Smith lights it up in practice, we may see a change. Something has to pump up this dreadful offense.

STRONGLY DISAGREE. I'm surprised at you MadDog. What QB was going to save us from yesterday's 45 point meltdown? Montana? Young? Brodie? DeBerg? Spurrier? Shaun Hill isn't to blame for the quick strike scores and long drives allowed by our defense. No QB could have kept up with that defensive collapse. No way Smith gets a shot. I just don't see it happening.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
P.S. As for the defense, I'm not going to panic. I think they simply had a bad game, and this unit simply needs to move on. If it becomes a week-to-week issue like the offense, then we have a major problem.

Agreed. I think this was a bad game myself. Which makes me wonder about your Alex Smith comment even more. You want to give Alex reps at QB because the defense got torched for 45 points?

Actually, this is Snyders 5th year in the league. However he has played the role of "jack of all trades, master of none".
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Look like MM's Twitter page has listed in a couple of his last entries some answers to our pressing questions.

Rossum cut.
Wragge potential to take over for Rachal.

I still think the Niners cut a WR. We currently have SEVEN on our roster:
Morgan-Bruce-Jones-Battle-Crabtree-Hill-Spurlock.

Since the Niners seemed to have cooked the Wildcat to a crisp charcoal substance, Spurlock has to be the next to go. However, you never know.

Does battle take over KR responsibilities then?

We need someone to take a sturdy hold on that role.

Battle looks to be the man.

Wouldn't be surprised if we target someone with return abilities in the draft.

I do not hold anything against battle, but I wonder how much longer he has on the team. Nagging knee injuries wont help prolong the career of a WR who is already a situational player.

Javid Best from cal. great return man, great RB, catches well. if he's there he's our guy, return men are at a premium in the NFL. the devin hesters, percy harvins and such are very important and can change a game with one play
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Some GREAT observations here:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
1) Rachal vs. Wragge vs. Snyder- While Rachal is far more athletic, the bottom line is that he is struggling. Struggling against a backup lineman last week with the Rams, struggling this week against the Falcons; heck, he's struggled all year. While is has been more convenient for fans to blast Baas (since he will probably depart in FA this year, and Rachal is young), Rachal simply has been terrible in pass protection. He is a lost puppy right now. Wragge is a savvy vet who may need to give the kid a break to get his head together. I have added Snyder just in case he is the loser of the battle below.

Agree -- to a point. I don't think Chilo is going anywhere. He's the future at right guard. Wragge will never be anything but a backup.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
2) Snyder vs. Pashos- A showdown between two mediocre RT's, I've got a feeling that the extra two weeks in this offense will help Pashos, and he will emerge the starter. This would allow Snyder the potential to move inside to replace Rachal or Baas. We need to get our best five guys on the field, and Snyder would be better than Rachal at this point of the season.

Agreed. This is Snyder's third year in the league and despite practicing at RT through camps, he's still struggling. Maybe it's time for a change.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
3) Bruce vs. Jones vs. Crabtree vs. Battle vs. Hill- So, who wants to be the starter next to Morgan? It seems like Morgan has emerged as the top guy the past two weeks (although besides his breakway run yesterday, we still did not see much). However, he is contributing, something we are not seeing elsewhere. Bruce looks like he is 80 years old. Jones is coming back from injury. Battle has been sitting on the sidelines a lot due to Raye's offense, and Hill has been playing special teams. I expect the Niners to give Jones every shot to move up the depth chart and possibly push for a starting role. Crabtree is not going to be ready for the full package, so he's competing for the third WR role. This will be a fun week to see who gets the chance to start and play backup.

Agreed. While I would love to see Crabtree emerge, it's not going to happen until very late in the season, if at all this year.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
And, I think someone surprising is going to get cut this week: Hill? Battle? Rossum? Even with Spurlock headed to the waiver wire, I'm just not convinced the Niners will keep 6 WR's, and a PR. I could be wrong.

Rossum is gone already. Do you think we'll see another? Spurlock? Not sure. But we're top-heavy here. Can Crabtree return kicks?

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
4) Smith vs. Hill- I fully expect Singletary to allow Smith some first team reps, and this may be his shot to run the offense. I still expect Hill to emerge the starter after the bye, but Hill was pretty shaky, and the passing game has been inconsistent all season. So, if Smith lights it up in practice, we may see a change. Something has to pump up this dreadful offense.

STRONGLY DISAGREE. I'm surprised at you MadDog. What QB was going to save us from yesterday's 45 point meltdown? Montana? Young? Brodie? DeBerg? Spurrier? Shaun Hill isn't to blame for the quick strike scores and long drives allowed by our defense. No QB could have kept up with that defensive collapse. No way Smith gets a shot. I just don't see it happening.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
P.S. As for the defense, I'm not going to panic. I think they simply had a bad game, and this unit simply needs to move on. If it becomes a week-to-week issue like the offense, then we have a major problem.

Agreed. I think this was a bad game myself. Which makes me wonder about your Alex Smith comment even more. You want to give Alex reps at QB because the defense got torched for 45 points?

I'm not advocating reps for Smith, but I think he will pick up some. While there was no way Hill could have beaten the Falcons on Sunday, his play was simply not very good. Even when protection was solid, his game was really off.

Let's be honest, Hill's performance has regressed since last year. Whether it is due to this offense, being the regular season starter, a combination of unfulfilled expectations from Morgan and an aging Bruce, or some form of chemistry problems, the passing game is struggling. Part of it is surely OL play, but part of it is being unable to make big throws at critical times.

So, while I am willing to continue to give Hill the start at QB, at some point the offense is going to need some form of jumpstart. And, that may come at QB.

As for Rachal, my note was that the kid needs a break to get his head together. I am not advocating a dumping.

Well, to be honest, when I got home from Home Depot yesterday, the score was already 14-10.

I then watched our high priced free-agent cornerback give up an 80 yard touchdown to White.

While I was in the bathroom, urinating away my disgust, Delanie fumbled the kickoff return.

At that point? I went outside and worked in the backyard while listening to the game.

The bad news is the 49ers lost. The good news is seven planter boxes got filled up with garlic and onion sets for next season.
Not saying smith is the answer, but if Hill was doing so bad, and the offense was doing bad, we already laid an egg, they should have put Smith in to get some reps/practice, and to keep Hill from taking those extra hits/sacks, hits on his scrambles.

That was stupid to keep your "starter" in once we were down by so much, sing should have sat him down.. told him he was taking him out to keep him fresh for next game.
I think something that most people don't account when blaming the defense is the spot the offense puts them in, first giving the other team the ball at the 20 yard line first thing(INT) followed by a short drive and putting the D right back out there. Our offense needs to sustain drives we can't have so many 3 and outs, it will wear the defense down, it will get in their head. Our offense needs to help the defense win not be dragged there. I put this loss on the offense as much or more then the defense. The only 3 people that played the game for real was Lawson, Smith and Willis other than that no one really showed up on either side.
Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:
I think something that most people don't account when blaming the defense is the spot the offense puts them in, first giving the other team the ball at the 20 yard line first thing(INT) followed by a short drive and putting the D right back out there. Our offense needs to sustain drives we can't have so many 3 and outs, it will wear the defense down, it will get in their head. Our offense needs to help the defense win not be dragged there. I put this loss on the offense as much or more then the defense. The only 3 people that played the game for real was Lawson, Smith and Willis other than that no one really showed up on either side.

Exactly. The defense forced a 3 and out, then we get the ball back and Shaun throws a pick at the 20. Then we don't really get anything going and the defense is on the field again this time for a longer drive with Norwood or whoever the hell their 2nd running back is and the defense is tired and we're down 14. After that 2nd TD I figured we would lose since Shaun wasn't bringing the team back but the guy looked like a mess. I think if we start off 7-0 and had a drive instead of that INT then the game is way different, maybe we don't win but it's not so lopsided. But we can't come from behind with a QB who can't make any deep throws. He didn't get much help from the line but there were times when he did have time and he threw ducks, or he didn't even know where the WR was,
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:
I think something that most people don't account when blaming the defense is the spot the offense puts them in, first giving the other team the ball at the 20 yard line first thing(INT) followed by a short drive and putting the D right back out there. Our offense needs to sustain drives we can't have so many 3 and outs, it will wear the defense down, it will get in their head. Our offense needs to help the defense win not be dragged there. I put this loss on the offense as much or more then the defense. The only 3 people that played the game for real was Lawson, Smith and Willis other than that no one really showed up on either side.

Exactly. The defense forced a 3 and out, then we get the ball back and Shaun throws a pick at the 20. Then we don't really get anything going and the defense is on the field again this time for a longer drive with Norwood or whoever the hell their 2nd running back is and the defense is tired and we're down 14. After that 2nd TD I figured we would lose since Shaun wasn't bringing the team back but the guy looked like a mess. I think if we start off 7-0 and had a drive instead of that INT then the game is way different, maybe we don't win but it's not so lopsided. But we can't come from behind with a QB who can't make any deep throws. He didn't get much help from the line but there were times when he did have time and he threw ducks, or he didn't even know where the WR was,

not to mention the special teams was horrible and gave the falcons great feild position every time. still not an excuse, both offense and defense should of played better and they didnt