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Whats wrong through 5 games....

This is not a doom and gloom post. What happened yesterday does not spell the end of the season and it doe snot represent what the niners are this year.

However, through 5 games there have been a few patterns.

1) O-Line. I don't know whats up with this one. I actually like the players, so I dunno if I'm just wrong about the talent, If its something that can be fixed with existing personell, or if its a scheme issue. They seem to have trouble in BOTH pass protection and in run blocking. For this team to improve, this is the #1 unit that needs to improve.

2) Coffee. I dunno if its just because he's a rookie, or if he doesn't have the talent to make it, but even when the line makes a hole, Coffee seems unable to find it. It could be that he just lacks the field vision to find the hole or it could be that its all kinda to big for him now and he's playing timid. I'm not writing the guy off, not by a long shot, but SOMETHING isn't clicking with him.

3) WRs. This one may get a boost with Crabtree, but the WR core seems to have alot of trouble getting separation. Seeing Morgan get caught so easily from behind yesterday may explain why...he just doesn't seem all that quick in and out of his breaks and he doesn't have much speed. Bruce is showing his age.

4) Hill. He has been a big reason the team was ALMOST 4-0, but he has some problems that need to be addressed in the future. I like Hill and I'm not suggesting replacing him, but this team really needs to look at this position in the future. I like Nate Davis so maybe thats the future (and his best friend on the team is Crabtree...hmmm...), or maybe that means a guy not yet on the team, but I just don't see Hill as the long term answer. I'll love to see him stick tho and the #2.

5) Pass Rush. The 49ers have been able to manufacture a pass-rush through scheme, but at some point thats going to come back to haunt them...like it did yesterday. They still need a true big time pass-rusher.

None of these are earthshattering and aren't new, but if just a few of these could be resolved, this team really can contend. Even after yesterday, I think this is a playoff team...they just got kicked in the teeth.
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You forgot offensive playcalling.

inexperienced head coach that seems to relish taking time outs to inspire the team.
this thread.

Mind boggling to me too. We spent high draft picks on this line. Staley and Heit is the only solid players right now. Gotta find a place for Wragge. His mindset will help tremendously. Chilo is a big disappointment bc I thought he would bring a nastiness to the OL. Where is "pancake city" Chilo? IMO Foerster has to go. If the Ravens cut you loose you must have been horrible and their stats in previous years prove it. I bet if you ask to look at the OL helmets, most of them would be nice and clean. Our line is still "patty-caking" with the DL. Bad technique is killing us!!

Morgan is aight...he is just needs to stay focus during the games. Last week and yesterday was mental mistakes. The play yesterday should have been a TD for him, but the lack of focus...and he just slowed down for some reason. Idiot! He's fine..just needs to gain confidence and foucs, especially now that Crabs is here.

Coffee is just a rook and the vision will come with time. I'm glad we have him!!!!
Originally posted by CRH49:
You forgot offensive playcalling.

inexperienced head coach that seems to relish taking time outs to inspire the team.

Hard to do much if there is no blocking!
Originally posted by Marvin49:
This is not a doom and gloom post. What happened yesterday does not spell the end of the season and it doe snot represent what the niners are this year.

However, through 5 games there have been a few patterns.

1) O-Line. I don't know whats up with this one. I actually like the players, so I dunno if I'm just wrong about the talent, If its something that can be fixed with existing personell, or if its a scheme issue. They seem to have trouble in BOTH pass protection and in run blocking. For this team to improve, this is the #1 unit that needs to improve.

2) Coffee. I dunno if its just because he's a rookie, or if he doesn't have the talent to make it, but even when the line makes a hole, Coffee seems unable to find it. It could be that he just lacks the field vision to find the hole or it could be that its all kinda to big for him now and he's playing timid. I'm not writing the guy off, not by a long shot, but SOMETHING isn't clicking with him.

3) WRs. This one may get a boost with Crabtree, but the WR core seems to have alot of trouble getting separation. Seeing Morgan get caught so easily from behind yesterday may explain why...he just doesn't seem all that quick in and out of his breaks and he doesn't have much speed. Bruce is showing his age.

4) Hill. He has been a big reason the team was ALMOST 4-0, but he has some problems that need to be addressed in the future. I like Hill and I'm not suggesting replacing him, but this team really needs to look at this position in the future. I like Nate Davis so maybe thats the future (and his best friend on the team is Crabtree...hmmm...), or maybe that means a guy not yet on the team, but I just don't see Hill as the long term answer. I'll love to see him stick tho and the #2.

5) Pass Rush. The 49ers have been able to manufacture a pass-rush through scheme, but at some point thats going to come back to haunt them...like it did yesterday. They still need a true big time pass-rusher.

None of these are earthshattering and aren't new, but if just a few of these could be resolved, this team really can contend. Even after yesterday, I think this is a playoff team...they just got kicked in the teeth.

I think many of us agree with your thoughts.

1. The O Line has been the biggest culprit so far this year. It's a combination of poor physical play and the fact they don't block as a unit very well. We haven't had a good O Line since the McKittrick years....and that's a long time.

Once we can patch the O Line, many of our other problems will disappear.

2. Everything gets back to the subpar play of the Oline, but yes Coffee lacks explosion and nifty movies. We really miss a healthy Frank Gore. I'd find a way to mix in Sheets in the second half of the season.

3. I think we've gone to the well once too many times with Bruce. He's done. Getting back to the lack of pass protection, our WRs need to be able to get off the line fast. I don't think Morgan or Bruce are getting it done. I'd like to see Crabtree and Jason Hill give it a go.

4. Hill is the ultimate enigma. Sure he is a great game manager but the other teams have figured him out. Much of Hill's problems are arising from the constant pressure and Raye's putrid play calling. I think we stick with Hill and put him in more shot gun situations to buy him time.

5. The lack of pass rush will have to wait until we can draft a pass rush specialist. I see that Orakpo is off the a fast start :(
Originally posted by billbird2111:
this thread.


Feel free to leave.
You can't fix these things overnight. A bye week won't help either. Singletary needs to fire the OLine coach - Chris Foerster and bring in some ]real assistant coaches. How many more offensive lineman do we need to trade for and/or draft before we realize that the system itself is broken. The same goes true for pass rushing. The team cannot run block, pass protect, or pass rush. Look at Atlanta's Oline. Ryan could have gotten married, taken a cruise to the Bahamas, and watched Gone with the Wind four times before getting rid of the ball. Any QB would have looked like a superstar yesterday.

[ Edited by jimmythegreekjr on Oct 12, 2009 at 11:32:46 ]
One more thing (the switch referred to in the first sentence is the switch Atlanta made to a man coverage scheme from zone over the bye):

Quote:
The one not startled by the switch was quarterback Shaun Hill. Like a couple of research nerds in white lab coats, Hill and fellow quarterback Alex Smith scoured video from the 2008 Falcons searching for changes the Falcons might adopt during their bye week. They discovered that Atlanta at times blitzed and played man coverage last season, and Hill and Smith figured they would try it again.

The problem is Hill knew it, but the rest of his offense didn't and a quarterback can only do so much if the rest of his offense was unprepared.

From that standpoint the 49ers were clearly and thoroughly out-coached.

This is quite troubling, to be honest. It's shows the underlying issue behind the offensive problems and that may indeed be coaching.

Niner Insider - The Day After

[ Edited by darkknight49 on Oct 12, 2009 at 11:33:00 ]
Originally posted by 9erluv415:
Originally posted by CRH49:
You forgot offensive playcalling.

inexperienced head coach that seems to relish taking time outs to inspire the team.

Hard to do much if there is no blocking!

Why can't anyone get this through their heads?
Originally posted by Black59Razor:
Originally posted by 9erluv415:
Originally posted by CRH49:
You forgot offensive playcalling.

inexperienced head coach that seems to relish taking time outs to inspire the team.

Hard to do much if there is no blocking!

Why can't anyone get this through their heads?

I know, that confuses the hell out of me. I guess they just want to blame who they want to blame regardless of whether they are actually the real issue or not.
My opinion is and always has been over the last 7 years is.....that our BIGGEST issue is player talent. We just don't have enough worthy starters.

Take Nate Clements for example, I cringe when people call him a Great Corner. He is a good corner and nothing more. And he is by far our best guy in the secondary. SO what does that tell you.

Linebackers, we have one great player.
Dline, we have no great players
Oline, we may have one great player but that is debatable
Receivers, we may have one great player but that is debatable
Backfield, we have one great player.

Everything else we do is just talk, I give credit to Sing for extracting a high level of play from this team, but throughout an entire season this team will be exposed for the average collection of NFL football players that they are.
Originally posted by danimal:
My opinion is and always has been over the last 7 years is.....that our BIGGEST issue is player talent. We just don't have enough worthy starters.

Take Nate Clements for example, I cringe when people call him a Great Corner. He is a good corner and nothing more. And he is by far our best guy in the secondary. SO what does that tell you.

Linebackers, we have one great player.
Dline, we have no great players
Oline, we may have one great player but that is debatable
Receivers, we may have one great player but that is debatable
Backfield, we have one great player.

Everything else we do is just talk, I give credit to Sing for extracting a high level of play from this team, but throughout an entire season this team will be exposed for the average collection of NFL football players that they are.



this
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by billbird2111:
this thread.


Feel free to leave.

Originally posted by Marvin49:
This is not a doom and gloom post. What happened yesterday does not spell the end of the season and it doe snot represent what the niners are this year.

However, through 5 games there have been a few patterns.

1) O-Line. I don't know whats up with this one. I actually like the players, so I dunno if I'm just wrong about the talent, If its something that can be fixed with existing personell, or if its a scheme issue. They seem to have trouble in BOTH pass protection and in run blocking. For this team to improve, this is the #1 unit that needs to improve.

2) Coffee. I dunno if its just because he's a rookie, or if he doesn't have the talent to make it, but even when the line makes a hole, Coffee seems unable to find it. It could be that he just lacks the field vision to find the hole or it could be that its all kinda to big for him now and he's playing timid. I'm not writing the guy off, not by a long shot, but SOMETHING isn't clicking with him.

3) WRs. This one may get a boost with Crabtree, but the WR core seems to have alot of trouble getting separation. Seeing Morgan get caught so easily from behind yesterday may explain why...he just doesn't seem all that quick in and out of his breaks and he doesn't have much speed. Bruce is showing his age.

4) Hill. He has been a big reason the team was ALMOST 4-0, but he has some problems that need to be addressed in the future. I like Hill and I'm not suggesting replacing him, but this team really needs to look at this position in the future. I like Nate Davis so maybe thats the future (and his best friend on the team is Crabtree...hmmm...), or maybe that means a guy not yet on the team, but I just don't see Hill as the long term answer. I'll love to see him stick tho and the #2.

5) Pass Rush. The 49ers have been able to manufacture a pass-rush through scheme, but at some point thats going to come back to haunt them...like it did yesterday. They still need a true big time pass-rusher.

None of these are earthshattering and aren't new, but if just a few of these could be resolved, this team really can contend. Even after yesterday, I think this is a playoff team...they just got kicked in the teeth.


1) I agree that we need to address the OLine either by draft or FE next year. I think we are seeing the effects of Scotty gambling on Marvel Smith (who retired). And we ended up sticking Synder in there with street bum Tony Pashos.

2) I am actually not against the idea of Kory Sheets competing with Coffee for the #2 spot. Coffee is a between the tackles type runner, where as Kory seems more like a change of pace back from Gore. I still think we give Kory Sheets and Glenn Coffee a chance to compete for #2. This is okay. I dont think we need to bring in someone else as long as we have Gore, coffee and sheets. I say we let go of M Robinson and activate Kory Sheets.

3) Okay..IMHO, Morgan is only a #2 guy. We really don't have a true #1 guy. When I say #1 caliber, I am talking about guys like Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, TO, Moss, Roddy White, etc? Man Roddy White does have some serious speed. Will Crabtree become a #1 guy? Only time will tell....but for some reason, I am not sold on Crabtree just because he lacks size and speed...

4) Hill is only a game manager IMHO. He's not a game changer or a franchise QB. You compare him to guys like Brees, Rivers, Matt Ryan, Ben R, etc...Hill just doesn't cut it. You cant expect to be dominant in the run game or short passing game if the opposing teams doesn't fear your long or 20+ yard passes plays...
I really do not think Shaun Hill or A Smith will be the long term solution.
I think we should give Nate Davis a shot next year.....and also draft someone. But i would like to see Nate Davis given a chance....he seems to have all the tools and skillsets (aside people claiming that he's dumb).

5) I am actually satisfied with our pass rush but I do agree that it was non exsistant in the Altanta game. Dunno what happened there. We still need a dominant DT.

[ Edited by ginseng1000 on Oct 12, 2009 at 12:05:19 ]