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CRABTREE SIGNED

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by ruthless49er:
I wouldve thought getting an extra year early and hitting the free agency for the really big bucks is worth more than 1 extra mil gauranteed all for one year.

LOL even to void the last year of his contract, he has to go to the probowl twice in his 1st four years.

While i hope Crabtree becomes a perennial probowler, it's still a little far out.

-9fA

I mean its not impossible. Fitz hit all his incentives and i think they were a lil tougher than Crabs but even then in our offense no matter how much they let Hill air it out Crabs isnt going to really hit his stride till his third season or thereabouts. Which is why its incredibly suprising when reasonable people seem to think he gained a good deal by waiting.

Either way man i gotta say. Im really happy he didnt because everything im hearing from Jed and Scot about teh meeting is taht this kid really does wanna just play ball. Dilfer said he compartmentalized things and i really do belive he just stayed outta his agent's way until this week when it became unbearable. Most of our players in that lockerroom are just like that. If hes anything like that im thinking he might be doin real well real early.

Talent and discipline. potent force. Vernon figuring it out. looks like so's Brooks ( BTW did you see the burst he put on for that 8 yard loss against the Vikings?). If Crabs can too ...wow...i would HATE to play us in a year or two.
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Originally posted by ruthless49er:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by ruthless49er:
I wouldve thought getting an extra year early and hitting the free agency for the really big bucks is worth more than 1 extra mil gauranteed all for one year.

LOL even to void the last year of his contract, he has to go to the probowl twice in his 1st four years.

While i hope Crabtree becomes a perennial probowler, it's still a little far out.

-9fA

I mean its not impossible. Fitz hit all his incentives and i think they were a lil tougher than Crabs but even then in our offense no matter how much they let Hill air it out Crabs isnt going to really hit his stride till his third season or thereabouts. Which is why its incredibly suprising when reasonable people seem to think he gained a good deal by waiting.

Either way man i gotta say. Im really happy he didnt because everything im hearing from Jed and Scot about teh meeting is taht this kid really does wanna just play ball. Dilfer said he compartmentalized things and i really do belive he just stayed outta his agent's way until this week when it became unbearable. Most of our players in that lockerroom are just like that. If hes anything like that im thinking he might be doin real well real early.

Talent and discipline. potent force. Vernon figuring it out. looks like so's Brooks ( BTW did you see the burst he put on for that 8 yard loss against the Vikings?). If Crabs can too ...wow...i would HATE to play us in a year or two.

Well, hopefully he becomes a complete badass and we resign him and extend his contract before he ever hits the market.
Originally posted by domesik:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by kidash:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by kidash:
so.... no MadDog sighting yet, huh???

- 98

No he showed up in typical Maddog fashion. Claiming that he was still right

According to Andrew Brandt's article on the National Football Post, I am right. Both sides made concessions, and both sides won battles on the slot. Brandt knows his stuff. He is a former salary cap administrator for an NFL team, and his breakdown was excellent.

Here is the pasted information at the conclusion. Many others have attached the link throughout this thread:

The Wait: The offer on the table for Parker and Crabtree of a couple days ago was:

Five years, $20M, $16M guaranteed.

The final deal is:

Six years, $32M ($28M over the first five), $17M guaranteed.

Analysis: Many have speculated that Crabtree took the same deal he was being offered for weeks, if not months, by the team. Parker and Crabtree may have made $8M over the next five years with their trip to San Francisco yesterday.

Hopefully the above data points out the strengths and weaknesses of this deal from both sides. It was a win for the team on some things and a win for the player on others, a deal that neither side feels great about. That usually means it is a good deal for both sides.

This was quite a saga, with a final face-to-face meeting spurred by a chance meeting between 49ers president and owner Jed York and MC Hammer at a social function. Only in the NFL


I'm sorry I have not been able to respond to some that have been claiming "victory" the last couple days, and have attempted to attack my position that both sides would win.

I guess, once again, these individuals who hope for nothing more for me to be wrong..... are wrong, and I....am right. What a shocker!!!

Cheers.

P.S. Eric Heitmann is still a good football player!!!!

Ya gotta love MadDogs revisionist history.

MD: 2+2 is 6!!! You're a fool. I know all.

Marvin: Um, no....its 4.

MD: Fool!! I was right!!! 2+2 is 4. Thats what I have been saying all along!!!!


You are attempting to smear me, so I ask you to show me, and the board, where I have been a revisionist. And, I will continue to ask you until you come up with something, or retract your statement.

You have dug yourself a hole. Good luck.

ummmm, read this whole thread, esp. with your post claiming you were right.

Dude, how hard is it you say you were wrong? I mean, say it with me: I AM WRONG.

The fact that you keep insisting that you're right and it's been literally proven by most of the sport writers in America that the 49ers actually came on top is really , ummmmmm.... silly.

Cheers!

- 98

Post where I am wrong. Please.

P.S. Most sports writers know s*it about the cap. I'll take the word from an expert in business and the cap than some journalism major who probably never spent one day in an Accounting or Finance class.

Everytime we do you don't respond to it. And NO I'm not going through the last 800+ Crabtree pages and hours of my life to prove you wrong which I could do just so you can deny it and claim to be right. I honestly don't know why you are a 49ers fan. Seriously, it is so effin obvious that the very young management of this team held firm and "won". Hell, listen to McC in the presser yesterday. I know you don't think that the 49ers caving would set a precedent, but McC did, he said so, and that is all that counts. I for one am very happy and proud to be a 49er fan today, I'm confident in the front office, the coach, and the players, and I think we can all agree that it has been a LONG time since the 49ers have given us reason to feel that.

So again, are you really a 49er fan, or do you just like to argue with 49er fans. Simply because after all this you would rather NOT recognize a very positive outcome for the 49ers just to hang on to the string of rightness that doesn't exist for your position. There is a name for that type of fan...starts with Nation and ends with Raiders, and since you live out of state I can tell you that Oakland is not that far away from San Francisco, its just over the bridge.

Like coach said, "We are going in this direction, anybody not wanting to go with us will be left behind". This train is picking up steam so either get on or GTFO.

GO NINERS.

Best,

Alex

Go ahead and give me one. I never dodge. Now, I don't sit on the computer 24 hours a day, so you have to give me some time (I have a job, a wife, a dog, a life beyond the Webzone), and if something gets buried, you have to send me a PM. But, I never dodge.

As for my statement about this contract, here was my posting on the Crabtree Discussion Thread, Reply number 154, in response to AmpLee saying I would eat crow. This has been my consistent position, and you can go back to other threads to fact check.

If Crabtree signs and does not bust the slot on either the guaranteed money, or total money, I will gladly eat crow.

I just think we'll see a unique contract where both sides can claim victory. My guess is that the Niners will maintain the guaranteed salary slot, but concede on the total money.

We'll soon see.

Maybe the greater question is, "Are you ready to eat crow, and if so, how may I prepare it?
First of all Brandt's figures is a speculation on some tips and his experience from what I read, the real figure's have not been released yet.

That being said, Parker wins in that he gets big numbers on paper to flaunt to people. In reality the numbers are like a mirage or a horse chasing a carot on a stick. Parker used and screwed the kid-didn't have his client's best interest at hand.

Craps loses because first year is sort of wasted already and the incentives is not easy to reach. If and thats a big if he does reach them then he wins and he got more guarenteed money per year and gets out after five year meaning 17/5=3.4 m plus base plus whatever else incentives. However with a wasted year and if there is a lock out, he really has only years to try and make the probowl if that is one of the markers to cut it to a 5 year deal. However, he could put up solid numbers and still not reach the markers so 17/6=2.83 mil plus base and incentives. and he has one more year to to wait before being a free agent thus losing that bonus money.

If he signed earlier or dealed earlier at the least 16/5=3.2 mil/yr of guarenteed plus base and incentives and I'm willing to bet the niners might have even made some of those markers easier to reach like Raji's. Plus he would get out in five years guarenteed, not maybe and if he is really good get more bonus when he is a free agent. Plus given the niners track record they might have renogotiated to keep him happy after 3-4 years. Of course if Craps is a bust-he won.

Niners win cause very unlikely he will reach those markers, but still turn out to be a solid player and for six years at a cheap price even for an extra 1 mil. If he breaks out as a pro bowler in his fifth year, he still has to stay a sixth year. If he does reach the incentives then the niners got someone like Willis- a pro bowl player even it lasts only five years the extra 1 mil bonus was worth it cause that means they got their moneys worth where as the raiders are probably kicking themselves all that guarens and only 2 catches in 4 games from bey.

Let this be a lesson to all rookies looking at Parker as an agent. He may be good as an agent for a veteren superstar but not for a wide eyed rookie who does not have a clue to the real world.
Originally posted by jerryricefan80:
Originally posted by domesik:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by kidash:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by kidash:
so.... no MadDog sighting yet, huh???

- 98

No he showed up in typical Maddog fashion. Claiming that he was still right

According to Andrew Brandt's article on the National Football Post, I am right. Both sides made concessions, and both sides won battles on the slot. Brandt knows his stuff. He is a former salary cap administrator for an NFL team, and his breakdown was excellent.

Here is the pasted information at the conclusion. Many others have attached the link throughout this thread:

The Wait: The offer on the table for Parker and Crabtree of a couple days ago was:

Five years, $20M, $16M guaranteed.

The final deal is:

Six years, $32M ($28M over the first five), $17M guaranteed.

Analysis: Many have speculated that Crabtree took the same deal he was being offered for weeks, if not months, by the team. Parker and Crabtree may have made $8M over the next five years with their trip to San Francisco yesterday.

Hopefully the above data points out the strengths and weaknesses of this deal from both sides. It was a win for the team on some things and a win for the player on others, a deal that neither side feels great about. That usually means it is a good deal for both sides.

This was quite a saga, with a final face-to-face meeting spurred by a chance meeting between 49ers president and owner Jed York and MC Hammer at a social function. Only in the NFL


I'm sorry I have not been able to respond to some that have been claiming "victory" the last couple days, and have attempted to attack my position that both sides would win.

I guess, once again, these individuals who hope for nothing more for me to be wrong..... are wrong, and I....am right. What a shocker!!!

Cheers.

P.S. Eric Heitmann is still a good football player!!!!

Ya gotta love MadDogs revisionist history.

MD: 2+2 is 6!!! You're a fool. I know all.

Marvin: Um, no....its 4.

MD: Fool!! I was right!!! 2+2 is 4. Thats what I have been saying all along!!!!


You are attempting to smear me, so I ask you to show me, and the board, where I have been a revisionist. And, I will continue to ask you until you come up with something, or retract your statement.

You have dug yourself a hole. Good luck.

ummmm, read this whole thread, esp. with your post claiming you were right.

Dude, how hard is it you say you were wrong? I mean, say it with me: I AM WRONG.

The fact that you keep insisting that you're right and it's been literally proven by most of the sport writers in America that the 49ers actually came on top is really , ummmmmm.... silly.

Cheers!

- 98

Post where I am wrong. Please.

P.S. Most sports writers know s*it about the cap. I'll take the word from an expert in business and the cap than some journalism major who probably never spent one day in an Accounting or Finance class.

Everytime we do you don't respond to it. And NO I'm not going through the last 800+ Crabtree pages and hours of my life to prove you wrong which I could do just so you can deny it and claim to be right. I honestly don't know why you are a 49ers fan. Seriously, it is so effin obvious that the very young management of this team held firm and "won". Hell, listen to McC in the presser yesterday. I know you don't think that the 49ers caving would set a precedent, but McC did, he said so, and that is all that counts. I for one am very happy and proud to be a 49er fan today, I'm confident in the front office, the coach, and the players, and I think we can all agree that it has been a LONG time since the 49ers have given us reason to feel that.

So again, are you really a 49er fan, or do you just like to argue with 49er fans. Simply because after all this you would rather NOT recognize a very positive outcome for the 49ers just to hang on to the string of rightness that doesn't exist for your position. There is a name for that type of fan...starts with Nation and ends with Raiders, and since you live out of state I can tell you that Oakland is not that far away from San Francisco, its just over the bridge.

Like coach said, "We are going in this direction, anybody not wanting to go with us will be left behind". This train is picking up steam so either get on or GTFO.

GO NINERS.

Best,

Alex

It's honestly like trying to talk to a mad dog. Literally. I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. Brandt's article in no way validates any of the ranting and raving maddog did on here for the last 3 months. In addition, the $8 million Maddog uses to cite his "victory" to which he never aligned himself in the first place because he argued for DHB money is based off of hard to reach incentives that if Crabtree reaches, the 49ers would be better off anyhow because that means they have a pro bowl receiver that is helping them get to the playoffs.

Stop the insanity Maddog. Swallow your pride. You just look crazy right now. You know how people treat crazy folks? They just nod politely and don't listen to them.

The "ranting and raving"? Wow! I wasn't the one calling Crabtree and Parker evil, deranged, idiotic, moronic, brain-dead, a gangsta, cousin to a criminal. I simply stated that I believe he had a good argument for a contract outside the slot.

Honestly, I don't know how you can argue with a capologist who said both sides won and lost.

As for the victory, I said that both sides won and lost. I am arguing against people who are turning blue in the face saying that only the Niners won.

You state that I look crazy right now. I think I am quite rational, and Brandt, an expert in the cap, would agree. Of course, instead of many simply agreeing with the expert, they will continue to fight, and site journalists who have no background in business and running the cap.

Cheers.
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Originally posted by al49erfan:
Why does this have to be an argument on who is right and who is wrong? all sides win... Crabtrees contract looks bigger than it actually is, the 49ers get the guaranteed money to fit in the 10th draft slot, and the fans get to see micheal Crabtree on the field on sundays...

And i maybe wrong but didnt Maddog say that the contract would be like this? I thought i remember him saying that the contract would be "special" in that it would go outside the slot on the actual number of the contract but the guaranteed money would still fit the slot? I could be wrong i dont remember if that was true but i think i remember that...

Anyway Crabtree is a 49er and lets turn that offense into the middle of the pack atleast.


I think the point many are trying to make is that by any practical analysis the Niners held their ground on the slotting in both guaranteed and total money.

The key numbers are as follows:

Raji: Base contract $22.9 Million + "Likely to be earned" bonus at $5.22 Million = 5 years at $28.12 Million or $5.62 Million per year.

Crabtree: Base contract $32.0 Million + "Unlikely to be earned" bonus at $8 Million (Zero) = 6 years at $32.00 Million or $5.33 Million per year.

The only true weakness in the deal that I see for the Niner side is that they're not protected at all if Crabtree ends up with chronic injuries. Other than that, they held the slot and will only pay out more than the $32.00 Million if Crabtree ends up playing like a total stud.

Now move along, nothing to see here.



Great post, and is basically everything I've been trying to reiterate. The Niners did NOT bust the 10th slot unless of course Crabtree meets his incentives, which is highly unlikely.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Go ahead and give me one. I never dodge. Now, I don't sit on the computer 24 hours a day, so you have to give me some time (I have a job, a wife, a dog, a life beyond the Webzone), and if something gets buried, you have to send me a PM. But, I never dodge.

As for my statement about this contract, here was my posting on the Crabtree Discussion Thread, Reply number 154, in response to AmpLee saying I would eat crow. This has been my consistent position, and you can go back to other threads to fact check.

If Crabtree signs and does not bust the slot on either the guaranteed money, or total money, I will gladly eat crow.

I just think we'll see a unique contract where both sides can claim victory. My guess is that the Niners will maintain the guaranteed salary slot, but concede on the total money.

We'll soon see.

Maybe the greater question is, "Are you ready to eat crow, and if so, how may I prepare it?
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Go ahead and give me one. I never dodge. Now, I don't sit on the computer 24 hours a day, so you have to give me some time (I have a job, a wife, a dog, a life beyond the Webzone), and if something gets buried, you have to send me a PM. But, I never dodge.

As for my statement about this contract, here was my posting on the Crabtree Discussion Thread, Reply number 154, in response to AmpLee saying I would eat crow. This has been my consistent position, and you can go back to other threads to fact check.

If Crabtree signs and does not bust the slot on either the guaranteed money, or total money, I will gladly eat crow.

I just think we'll see a unique contract where both sides can claim victory. My guess is that the Niners will maintain the guaranteed salary slot, but concede on the total money.

We'll soon see.

Maybe the greater question is, "Are you ready to eat crow, and if so, how may I prepare it?

i think Crabtree read this post then bought a ticket to Santa Clara
Originally posted by 49erWill:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by 49erWill:


Originally posted by ruthless49er:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Parker didn't lose in this, but he went the long, rough way when he could have easily got the same money as soon as TC had he sat down with the Niners. Instead of waiting 4 games into the season to get a million more. And lost his client valuable time with the team.

I think the Niners would have gone to as high as 18mil guaranteed, but to stand firm on 16mil and gave him 1 mil more is a win for the Niners after Crabtree have had enough of the impasse is a win for the Niners. Winning on the Niners side is paying less then how high you are willing to go for Crabtree, NOT the original number offered. That's just the starting point of the negotiation. We will never know how high Jed was willing to pay for Crabtree and neither does Parker.

Dude, he may have got 1 mil more, but at the expense of another year on his contract. Therefore his guaranteed money average is lower than the original offer, plus he hits FA later.

Can't ignored the fact that he did get 1mil more out of the Niners. Whether it was enough for holding out it's debatable. Like I said he could have gotten that without holding out.

It's not debatable:

$16 million guaranteed/5 years = $3.2 million guaranteed/year

$17 million guaranteed/6 years = $2.8 million guaranteed/year

Please explain your stance on this. Crabtree would have been earning more guaranteed per year with the original deal.

It's guaranteed money, a sure thing. Whether it over 5 or 6 years. It's secondary. I think that takes priority to anything that's in the contract or length of it. May be it's how you want to look at it. But to me, all NFL contracts through the year have taken guaranteed money as the major get for the agent.

So you're saying $1 million guaranteed is worth tacking on another year to his contract? You can't be serious. By having another year, he is losing out on MORE guaranteed money and bonuses than he would have gained in free agency assuming he performs

Dude that's gotta be the most twisted logic i've ever had to understand. LOL

-9fA

I wouldve thought getting an extra year early and hitting the free agency for the really big bucks is worth more than 1 extra mil gauranteed all for one year.

It's not 1mil for one year. It's 1 mil more in guarantee money plus a 6th year. Some think the 6th year would be a restraint. But Crabtree can get to FA if he plays at a probowl level after the 5th year. If he can't play up to par then it doesn't matter, he would probably not get much in free agency anyway. Either way he still get the 1 mil more in guarantee.

Parker gained a little bit more from the Niners but not much.

[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Oct 8, 2009 at 18:01:35 ]
I dont want to re read all the responses to crabs but I remember some video in the parking lot at the stick where someone put their $100 crab jersey on the ground and was telling people to wipe their shoes or wipe their ass with it. I guess you will have to buy another jersey now.
Originally posted by 49erWill:


wonder how animated crabtree will be during the game sunday
Originally posted by RonMexico:
wonder how animated crabtree will be during the game sunday

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