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Pass to set up the run

Just like the rest of the Niner Faithful I have been quite pleased so far this season, but Raye'S running at all costs bother's me.

I am not a coach, but it seems that when Shaun Hill passes successfully, the Niners seem to run the ball better. I will say this it seems that Raye is starting to pass first a bit more and it might just make it easier to run rather than the other way around.

Anyone have opinions on this?
No No, you pass to setup the run.
Originally posted by Darekster:
Just like the rest of the Niner Faithful I have been quite pleased so far this season, but Raye'S running at all costs bother's me.

I am not a coach, but it seems that when Shaun Hill passes successfully, the Niners seem to run the ball better. I will say this it seems that Raye is starting to pass first a bit more and it might just make it easier to run rather than the other way around.

Anyone have opinions on this?

With our OLine not playing well, its tough to pass to run. A sack on 1st down puts us in a hole and lets our opponents tee off expecting a pass play. A short run setting up a 2nd and 8 keeps opponents honest and could open up play action plays, screens, etc and eventually a manageable 3rd down. I believe Sing is really going to push the O Line this week and I look forward to see them against Atlanta. If we can by Hill 1/2 a second each play, I believe we will see more pass first series'.
Originally posted by danimal:
No No, you pass to setup the run.
Originally posted by islavistan:
Originally posted by Darekster:
Just like the rest of the Niner Faithful I have been quite pleased so far this season, but Raye'S running at all costs bother's me.

I am not a coach, but it seems that when Shaun Hill passes successfully, the Niners seem to run the ball better. I will say this it seems that Raye is starting to pass first a bit more and it might just make it easier to run rather than the other way around.

Anyone have opinions on this?

With our OLine not playing well, its tough to pass to run. A sack on 1st down puts us in a hole and lets our opponents tee off expecting a pass play. A short run setting up a 2nd and 8 keeps opponents honest and could open up play action plays, screens, etc and eventually a manageable 3rd down. I believe Sing is really going to push the O Line this week and I look forward to see them against Atlanta. If we can by Hill 1/2 a second each play, I believe we will see more pass first series'.

did the team work on 3 second drills over the entire course of OTAs' and Camp, if Hill is going to hold the F'n thing longer than 3 seconds?!?!

I don't think that anyone can legitimately claim it's the OLine. There's going to be a time and point when a Rocky Bernard comes free and "schmears the @u33r" as the old sandlot game was named back in the day. Hill is just as much to blame for the Line issues as the Line is, if not more so. Wasn't he named Starter because he "protects the ball" better? Well holding the ball TOO LONG is one of the many facets of protecting the ball. If he's holding onto it when he takes a hit then it makes it easier to strip. And more and more Defenses are looking to strip sack a QB rather than just put him into the turf. I don't care how much easier the officials make it for the QB. Hill has to play smarter with the damn thing. Leaving it out in the open while he stares down his Receiver is NOT protecting the ball at all.And he done that EVERY game to date.

*Edit*But I digress, in theory with Shaun's superior short game they SHOULD be able to do that. But him holding the ball too long affects that negatively. *ediT*

~Ceadder

[ Edited by Ceadderman on Oct 6, 2009 at 16:38:05 ]
I do think our offense needs to run more screens on early downs.
Originally posted by islavistan:
Originally posted by Darekster:
Just like the rest of the Niner Faithful I have been quite pleased so far this season, but Raye'S running at all costs bother's me.

I am not a coach, but it seems that when Shaun Hill passes successfully, the Niners seem to run the ball better. I will say this it seems that Raye is starting to pass first a bit more and it might just make it easier to run rather than the other way around.

Anyone have opinions on this?

With our OLine not playing well, its tough to pass to run. A sack on 1st down puts us in a hole and lets our opponents tee off expecting a pass play. A short run setting up a 2nd and 8 keeps opponents honest and could open up play action plays, screens, etc and eventually a manageable 3rd down. I believe Sing is really going to push the O Line this week and I look forward to see them against Atlanta. If we can by Hill 1/2 a second each play, I believe we will see more pass first series'.

2nd and 8 doesn't open any doors beyond a pass. 2nd and 6 or less is what leaves defenses guessing... I hope to see more passes, or at least a more creative use of passing schemes in the coming games...
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by islavistan:
Originally posted by Darekster:
Just like the rest of the Niner Faithful I have been quite pleased so far this season, but Raye'S running at all costs bother's me.

I am not a coach, but it seems that when Shaun Hill passes successfully, the Niners seem to run the ball better. I will say this it seems that Raye is starting to pass first a bit more and it might just make it easier to run rather than the other way around.

Anyone have opinions on this?

With our OLine not playing well, its tough to pass to run. A sack on 1st down puts us in a hole and lets our opponents tee off expecting a pass play. A short run setting up a 2nd and 8 keeps opponents honest and could open up play action plays, screens, etc and eventually a manageable 3rd down. I believe Sing is really going to push the O Line this week and I look forward to see them against Atlanta. If we can by Hill 1/2 a second each play, I believe we will see more pass first series'.

2nd and 8 doesn't open any doors beyond a pass. 2nd and 6 or less is what leaves defenses guessing... I hope to see more passes, or at least a more creative use of passing schemes in the coming games...

I'm not alone on this!
Raye runs 70+% of the time on first down. If I'm a defense, I call inside run blitz's on first down, to take away the running lanes. Inside run blitz's make the O lines' job that much harder, cause they have more defenders to block. And if its a pass play, the D is already putting the heat on the QB.

So I'm not surprised that our O line can't get the job done on first down. We are averaging 2 yds on first down.

Second and 8, we run 60+% of the time, so my defense call would be run blitz again. Net result, 3rd and 6 yds to go.

Third and 6, I'm looking for run or short pass. So I place 8 in the box and blitz selectively.

When you are predictable, you simplify the job for the defense. So your O line has to work even harder, to make a run play work. Perhaps we have a better than average O line, but with the predictability of our play calling, we give the advantage to the opposing D.
Originally posted by islavistan:
Originally posted by Darekster:
Just like the rest of the Niner Faithful I have been quite pleased so far this season, but Raye'S running at all costs bother's me.

I am not a coach, but it seems that when Shaun Hill passes successfully, the Niners seem to run the ball better. I will say this it seems that Raye is starting to pass first a bit more and it might just make it easier to run rather than the other way around.

Anyone have opinions on this?

With our OLine not playing well, its tough to pass to run. A sack on 1st down puts us in a hole and lets our opponents tee off expecting a pass play. A short run setting up a 2nd and 8 keeps opponents honest and could open up play action plays, screens, etc and eventually a manageable 3rd down. I believe Sing is really going to push the O Line this week and I look forward to see them against Atlanta. If we can by Hill 1/2 a second each play, I believe we will see more pass first series'.

I agree,

On another note we need to run the ball on 1st down. you are rite we do not need to get a sack on first down and get boned. If we can get 3-5 yard on 1st down that is succesful run. plus it will open up deep passes. another point, when we run it on 1st down why always go up the gut, cant we do a a pitch off to one side and see if coffee can break it up the sideline.....
why not a play action on the first play of the game and take it deep to Morgan or Davis.
Originally posted by backontop:
why not a play action on the first play of the game and take it deep to Morgan or Davis.

I agree, play action seems to be a missing element of play selection. When defences think that they know that we are going to run it, make them pay for it with play action and the runnin game should improve as well.
I'd like to see a couple screens a game. Why oh why do we never run the screen play?
9ers of olde used to run screens better than most every one. With our current problems on the o-line interior, perhaps it is time for a middle screen or two...
Originally posted by backontop:
why not a play action on the first play of the game and take it deep to Morgan or Davis.


Why not just hit Davis over the middle? If the D is gonna clog the middle with run blitzes, throw the ball to where the blitzing defender WAS. Same with stacking the box with 8 or 9 defenders, attack the weak portion of the defense.

Raye needs to start making defenses pay for commiting to play the run. Pretty sure the league is on to his few plays he calls EVERY FREAKIN GAME. Draw, counter, screen, repeat.

However, the O-line is gonna need to block someone in order for that to happen. And so far this season, that hasn't worked out so well