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My apologies on Aubrayo Franklin, and Manny Lawson

Lawson’s injury set him back over a year. Last year he was tenatvie most of the season until the final few games. This year the tentative is gone, he knows his assignment and is able to play vs. thinking then reacting.

Franklin has been put in a better situation as well. Hats off to Mankusky for what he has created and doing with the defense.

Because of the depth of DL the upcoming draft holds I still believe we should find a NT or DL and draft him.
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by dj43:
There are very few "complete players" in the league. The key is to put players in positions and schemes where their strengths can be utilized.

A part of the "genius" of Bill Walsh was that he was very good a putting players in situations where they could do well. Those great teams in the '80s had a lot of players that were similar to Lawson and Franklin. John Ayers was not a very strong guy but he was terrific at pulling and trapping. Randy Cross was much the same. Keena Turner had some "weaknesses" as well but they all have rings.

Right now, Singletary/Manusky are doing a very good job of imitating Walsh.

Isn't THAT the truth! Good parallel to Walsh and how he played to his teams individual strengths and schemed that way. Joe Montana didn't have a strong arm, was fragile, Rice had sub-par speed, Craig was more quick then fast, etc. I think you bring up a good point about how it's refreshing to see our coaches utilizing schemes tailored to our player's strengths something counter to the Nolan regime.

But in the case of Franklin & Lawson, they still are required to get the job done in a 3-4. And Franklin, first and foremost, has to stop the inside runs and he's 16th there. Lawson's primary job is to get to the QB and he only has .5 sacks (of course it was against the Rams) and only 1 QB hit and 5 QB Pressures. Eventually, once we start playing teams outside the NFC West, we'll REALLY need them to elevate their games in their weaknesses b/c we won't always play great team defense. There will be times where we'll need Franklin to be immoveable in the middle and there will be times when we need Manny to get a key sack (think Brett Favre).

Where do you get your stats? Do you have a link?

ProFootballFocus

Every single play by every single player is analyzed. Don't pay too much attention to their grading scale but their stats are 100 times more accurate then even NFL.com
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by dj43:
There are very few "complete players" in the league. The key is to put players in positions and schemes where their strengths can be utilized.

A part of the "genius" of Bill Walsh was that he was very good a putting players in situations where they could do well. Those great teams in the '80s had a lot of players that were similar to Lawson and Franklin. John Ayers was not a very strong guy but he was terrific at pulling and trapping. Randy Cross was much the same. Keena Turner had some "weaknesses" as well but they all have rings.

Right now, Singletary/Manusky are doing a very good job of imitating Walsh.

thank you for the resource!!

Isn't THAT the truth! Good parallel to Walsh and how he played to his teams individual strengths and schemed that way. Joe Montana didn't have a strong arm, was fragile, Rice had sub-par speed, Craig was more quick then fast, etc. I think you bring up a good point about how it's refreshing to see our coaches utilizing schemes tailored to our player's strengths something counter to the Nolan regime.

But in the case of Franklin & Lawson, they still are required to get the job done in a 3-4. And Franklin, first and foremost, has to stop the inside runs and he's 16th there. Lawson's primary job is to get to the QB and he only has .5 sacks (of course it was against the Rams) and only 1 QB hit and 5 QB Pressures. Eventually, once we start playing teams outside the NFC West, we'll REALLY need them to elevate their games in their weaknesses b/c we won't always play great team defense. There will be times where we'll need Franklin to be immoveable in the middle and there will be times when we need Manny to get a key sack (think Brett Favre).

Where do you get your stats? Do you have a link?

ProFootballFocus

Every single play by every single player is analyzed. Don't pay too much attention to their grading scale but their stats are 100 times more accurate then even NFL.com

Bookmarked!...thank you for the resource!

[ Edited by verb1der on Oct 5, 2009 at 15:03:07 ]
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by dj43:
There are very few "complete players" in the league. The key is to put players in positions and schemes where their strengths can be utilized.

A part of the "genius" of Bill Walsh was that he was very good a putting players in situations where they could do well. Those great teams in the '80s had a lot of players that were similar to Lawson and Franklin. John Ayers was not a very strong guy but he was terrific at pulling and trapping. Randy Cross was much the same. Keena Turner had some "weaknesses" as well but they all have rings.

Right now, Singletary/Manusky are doing a very good job of imitating Walsh.

thank you for the resource!!

Isn't THAT the truth! Good parallel to Walsh and how he played to his teams individual strengths and schemed that way. Joe Montana didn't have a strong arm, was fragile, Rice had sub-par speed, Craig was more quick then fast, etc. I think you bring up a good point about how it's refreshing to see our coaches utilizing schemes tailored to our player's strengths something counter to the Nolan regime.

But in the case of Franklin & Lawson, they still are required to get the job done in a 3-4. And Franklin, first and foremost, has to stop the inside runs and he's 16th there. Lawson's primary job is to get to the QB and he only has .5 sacks (of course it was against the Rams) and only 1 QB hit and 5 QB Pressures. Eventually, once we start playing teams outside the NFC West, we'll REALLY need them to elevate their games in their weaknesses b/c we won't always play great team defense. There will be times where we'll need Franklin to be immoveable in the middle and there will be times when we need Manny to get a key sack (think Brett Favre).

Where do you get your stats? Do you have a link?

ProFootballFocus

Every single play by every single player is analyzed. Don't pay too much attention to their grading scale but their stats are 100 times more accurate then even NFL.com

Bookmarked!...thank you for the resource!

My pleasure. It's a fantastic site and much more comprehensive then most sites. Another great one is

Football Outsiders is another great comprehensive stat site.
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
We need to draft offensive lineman before anything.

Co-signed. How anyone can be looking to draft at any position outside of OL and maybe QB first and foremost is beyond me?

QB or OL (and we need the best RT and LG available) should be our top priorities. On the subject of Lawson and Franklin, both of them have played good to great all year. I always liked Lawson, for his punt/kick blocking ability, ability to cover some of the more athletic TEs and RBs in the league, run support, and the occasional sack. He clearly figures into the longterm future of the team. However, we still need to get acquire a dominant pass rusher.
Both have been playing very well. Franklin has be a disruptive force in the middle and Manny has been setting the edge, stringing out every attempted sweep. When AP busted that 30 yarder it was Harrlason who crashed inside, leaving the edge vacated.

There is far more to Manny's game than sacks, although there are lots of people around here who feel sacks are the ONLY measure of Manny effectiveness.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
i know they are doing so good i dont see the need to get a NT anymore but our FS play has been better but not great so im still hoping for berry

I would still like to see a big monster at NT.
I am shocked at the 2009 performance of Franklin. Was easily one of his harshest critics. I still don't think he's a dominant NT, but he's elevated his play to being worthy of a starter in the league. I still don't see him have to take many doubles, but he's been more stout and less a liability so far. We should still add a young NT to develop, but I'd be surprised if Franklin is allowed to walk into FA in the upcoming offseason.

Terrence Cody and Boo Robinson (
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Both have been playing very well. Franklin has be a disruptive force in the middle and Manny has been setting the edge, stringing out every attempted sweep. When AP busted that 30 yarder it was Harrlason who crashed inside, leaving the edge vacated.

There is far more to Manny's game than sacks, although there are lots of people around here who feel sacks are the ONLY measure of Manny effectiveness.

agree he has been setting the edge well lately! GLad he is gaining confidence!
Why isn't the anti-McCloughan crowd apologizing to McCloughan? Most of them were ragging on Scotty for his 1st round picks but now that VD and Lawson have proven NOT to be busts, where is the love?

Besides for Smith, his picks have been excellent. The only other unproven player is Balmer who is a late 1st rounder from last year.

Not to mention his very good record of free agent aquisitions (Clements, J Smith, W Harris, D Bly, Spikes).

[ Edited by kronik on Oct 5, 2009 at 18:50:52 ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by dj43:
There are very few "complete players" in the league. The key is to put players in positions and schemes where their strengths can be utilized.

A part of the "genius" of Bill Walsh was that he was very good a putting players in situations where they could do well. Those great teams in the '80s had a lot of players that were similar to Lawson and Franklin. John Ayers was not a very strong guy but he was terrific at pulling and trapping. Randy Cross was much the same. Keena Turner had some "weaknesses" as well but they all have rings.

Right now, Singletary/Manusky are doing a very good job of imitating Walsh.

Isn't THAT the truth! Good parallel to Walsh and how he played to his teams individual strengths and schemed that way. Joe Montana didn't have a strong arm, was fragile, Rice had sub-par speed, Craig was more quick then fast, etc. I think you bring up a good point about how it's refreshing to see our coaches utilizing schemes tailored to our player's strengths something counter to the Nolan regime.

But in the case of Franklin & Lawson, they still are required to get the job done in a 3-4. And Franklin, first and foremost, has to stop the inside runs and he's 16th there. Lawson's primary job is to get to the QB and he only has .5 sacks (of course it was against the Rams) and only 1 QB hit and 5 QB Pressures. Eventually, once we start playing teams outside the NFC West, we'll REALLY need them to elevate their games in their weaknesses b/c we won't always play great team defense. There will be times where we'll need Franklin to be immoveable in the middle and there will be times when we need Manny to get a key sack (think Brett Favre).

Where do you get your stats? Do you have a link?

ProFootballFocus

Every single play by every single player is analyzed. Don't pay too much attention to their grading scale but their stats are 100 times more accurate then even NFL.com

Thanks brother
They may not be pro bowl but very good players
Originally posted by danimal:
Me too. I will eat crow about these 2 guys. But lets keep it real. I would say both of them are having career years...and their performances up to this season really did warrant some criticism

Who was it that said Sings motivation approach was a joke? Remember that? Sabrason and singfan I think. The point is, Sing has turned this team around with basically the same players. Amazing!

How good will we be after one or two more years of drafts and free agency signings?

[ Edited by ObePwnD on Oct 5, 2009 at 19:51:22 ]
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
i know they are doing so good i dont see the need to get a NT anymore but our FS play has been better but not great so im still hoping for berry

I'm starting to feel this way also, because Franklin has definitely solidified himself as THE NT for this team, but it would still be good to have that depth at NT!

ya i agree now i think about it we have no one behind frankin w maybe we should get one in the third round or something
Originally posted by verb1der:
I've been a very harsh critic of these two players during the off-season, and I feel I need to apologize to the Zone, and especially those who have supported Lawson and Franklin.

I am foolish for calling Lawson a "bust", and calling Franklin's head to be cut! Because after 4 games, I believe these two players are the unsung heroes of the defense. They're playing at such a high-level with Lawson in run/pass support, and Franklin keeping defenders off of Willis.

Mods, lock this if you want. I just had to put it out there!

TOP 5 D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You shouldn't have to apologize for giving a fair, honest assessment of their past performance. They weren't doing the job they were brought here to do. Now they're roles have been redefined and they are being put in a position where they can succeed. That's what good coaching does for a player.

I am glad that they are now doing well. More power to them.