What we learned from the Vikings game

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Snider8706:
the question is what did we LEARN! i learned that vernon is a bad A$$ and we need to sign CRABTREE! yea and you can Quote me. SIGN CRABTREE!!!! AND LET HILL MAKE PLAYS.

Even if we signed him today he wouldn't be ready to go for at-least 6-8 weeks. Bringing him in to sit out 2 months isn't going to help us at all. Also we would have to cut a player (most likely a WR) to make room for him.

So screw it, lets just not sign him then I guess huh?

Originally posted by Snider8706:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Snider8706:
the question is what did we LEARN! i learned that vernon is a bad A$$ and we need to sign CRABTREE! yea and you can Quote me. SIGN CRABTREE!!!! AND LET HILL MAKE PLAYS.

Even if we signed him today he wouldn't be ready to go for at-least 6-8 weeks. Bringing him in to sit out 2 months isn't going to help us at all. Also we would have to cut a player (most likely a WR) to make room for him.

I can think of two players we wouldn't miss (battle and spurlock)..... And I don't think it would take that long to get him playing

That would mean dropping a player who can go now, for a guy who cant. That would leave us with Morgan, Bruce, Hill, and ?....only 4 guys who are ready. Jones is coming off an injury and Crabs isn't ready....we cant go into a game with only 4 able bodied receivers.

Crabs has 0 knowledge of the playbook and hasn't put on pads in months. Were not in a part of the season where were teaching plays, were now practicing them. Trust me it would take him well over a month to get up to speed to be an effective weapon.

Originally posted by jreff22:
That would mean dropping a player who can go now, for a guy who cant. That would leave us with Morgan, Bruce, Hill, and ?....only 4 guys who are ready. Jones is coming off an injury and Crabs isn't ready....we cant go into a game with only 4 able bodied receivers.

Crabs has 0 knowledge of the playbook and hasn't put on pads in months. Were not in a part of the season where were teaching plays, were now practicing them. Trust me it would take him well over a month to get up to speed to be an effective weapon.

We don't even use our WR's. I have now see exactly why Crabtree doesn't want to come here. Hill doesn't even look at Morgan unless the play is specifically designed for him, it's ridiculous.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Snider8706:
the question is what did we LEARN! i learned that vernon is a bad A$$ and we need to sign CRABTREE! yea and you can Quote me. SIGN CRABTREE!!!! AND LET HILL MAKE PLAYS.

Even if we signed him today he wouldn't be ready to go for at-least 6-8 weeks. Bringing him in to sit out 2 months isn't going to help us at all. Also we would have to cut a player (most likely a WR) to make room for him.

So screw it, lets just not sign him then I guess huh?

Does it look like he is coming in any time soon? He wants what we wont give and so far he hasn't moved from the stance. I would rather wait until week 10 to sign him, at that point he wouldn't count against the final 53. Granted he would be ineligible to play but if he wants to be a part of this team that's what he would have to do.

Originally posted by Method:

Originally posted by jreff22:
That would mean dropping a player who can go now, for a guy who cant. That would leave us with Morgan, Bruce, Hill, and ?....only 4 guys who are ready. Jones is coming off an injury and Crabs isn't ready....we cant go into a game with only 4 able bodied receivers.

Crabs has 0 knowledge of the playbook and hasn't put on pads in months. Were not in a part of the season where were teaching plays, were now practicing them. Trust me it would take him well over a month to get up to speed to be an effective weapon.

We don't even use our WR's. I have now see exactly why Crabtree doesn't want to come here. Hill doesn't even look at Morgan unless the play is specifically designed for him, it's ridiculous.

Raye will open the playbook more as the season goes on. Don't forget this is another playbook the guys have learned and it will take some time for them to grasp it. I expect the OL to play better as the season goes, so Hill should have a little more time in the pocket. He is not one to go through his reads because he doesn't have the ability to scramble and make plays on move. But if he can start getting a few more seconds in the pocket he should start moving the ball around more.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Completely agree. We are excusing this loss because it was a "Superbowl" bound team that won on a "luck" play. We make our own luck and the Vikings, to the NFL, still have not played any special team yet and they could possibly collapse and be an 8 win team once they begin to play tougher offensive teams where they will need to score more points.

The fact is that we learned that we made some mistakes and if we keep making these types of mistakes, things will not always go in our favor.

Remember, we let Kurt Warner have two chances under 4 minutes also. Who knows, if Boldin was 100% and their third WR wasn't hurt, they may have drove all the way down.

Looking back at this game and trying to figure out where we stand is BS. We lost this game and we need to figure out WHY we lost it and fix it!

We should be 3-0.

We lost this game because we were 0-11 on 3rd down conversions. I'm sorry but name consistent winners on Sundays that don't convert 3rd downs.

You can't.

It's that simple. People are talking about fluke plays, etc. Who cares about all that when you have a higher percentage of success at winning when you convert 3rd downs - that's football 101. When you don't your chances of losing rise astronomically.

Whether it be bad play calling or OL ineptitude, it's the same. This team needs to get serious about converting 3rd downs or you can forget any play-off appearance.

The third down stat is obvious. On first down, Coaches should be looking ahead to their 10th third down and see that we are 0-9 on third downs and be trying to figure out why and what situations were we in on those 9 third downs. Maybe try passing on second down or first down.

Watching Sing's Monday presser made me realize the most valuable lesson of all that the 49ers can take from this game.

LEARN TO FINISH!

I know this sounds obvious and stupid but hear me out. We all know that numerous wins the past several years have come down to the wire. Naturally, we're going to have close games still because we're a defensive team.

Nevertheless, the 49ers never seem to be able to deliver the knockout punch. Nine times out of ten, the Niners sweat it out to the very last play and hang on by a thread at the mercy of the opponent.

The best thing about this game is how badly it hurt the players and team in general. That sting will serve as great motivation to FINISH GAMES.

Hopefully in the future when games are close in the 4th, the Niners recall this game and find that extra fire to put away the opponent.

This game could be a real turning point.

I kearned that if the 49ers are prepared well and mentally focused that we can compete with the better teams in this league.

Originally posted by ninerfan818:
I kearned that if the 49ers are prepared well and mentally focused that we can compete with the better teams in this league.

The best lesson I learned in Minnesota it that as soon as you are old enough to leave, do it. I lived there for the first 18 years of my life, and shoveling snow that is over the top of the garage is not for me.

I learned that at age 65, Bret Favre will still make homers on the Zone cry

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by scopur49er:

Originally posted by nw9erfan:

Originally posted by scopur49er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by scopur49er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by scopur49er:

Originally posted by Canadian49er:

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by djfullshred:
We learned that Singletary/Raye are not going to deviate from the situational play calling chart that tells them to run the ball no matter what if you have a lead in the 4th quarter - even if you are leaving enough time for the other team to come back if you don't get a 1st down.

So true and so scary. The really frightening thing is the quote attributed to Sing saying he won't 2nd guess Raye and wouldn't analyze his play choices???!!!! WTF! Has he been watching our each game ended with our inability to even get first downs and repeatedly going 3 and outs while stubbornly running for negative yards? "Won't analyze"? Isn't that the job of the head coach.

We lost on the luckiest 32 yard pass and catch you will ever see...

There's nothing wrong with the play calling. Just bad luck

We ran the clock down so that the Vikings eventually had to score on a bomb with 2 seconds left on the clock. I'll take that every single game

When you stubbornly and ineffectively run the ball up the middle against the best run defense in the league and go 0-11 in 3rd down conversions then yes, there is something very wrong with the offensive playcalling.

The Vikings are not even as good on run D as we are, even after this game. The strategy was sound on the play calling, we got beat on a one in a thousand throw and catch. Even Farve admitted as much saying "I knew I was gonna get hit, so I just threw it as hard as I can". Sometimes the offense wins, it is just that simple.

See I don't buy that argument at all.
I don't believe one play ever makes or breaks you. There's 60 minutes of football and plenty of opportunities to extend your lead or lose it.
Look at the game as a whole and our offensive playcalling was sub-par. Our third down conversions couldn't have been worse. Our defense couldn't get off the field like they were supposed to. Too many factors play into the outcome of a game to simply say "we lost because of a one in a thousand throw and catch".

It's too convenient and too easy of an excuse and I guarantee you not a single coach or player on the team is going to look at it that same way because it'll prevent them from seeing what the real problems were.
If you're Singletary, there's no way you're satisfied with how we played as a whole. We did some things right and we did some things wrong but they won't use that final play as an excuse and I don't see why we need to either.

We played as well as we can with the QB that we have. We lost because of a play that if they were to run it a thousand times, they succeed maybe 10% of the time. It was a fluke play, not a high percentage pass at all. There is no way Singletary is happy with the overall play, but the same could likely have been said even if we had won that game. The o line and QB were sore spots for us, Hill once again only had one good drive and looked average the rest of the day. The defense played well all day and in the end our 5th or maybe 6th DB got beat on a play that was a perfect throw and excellent catch. I do not even blame Roman for that play, the only other thing he could have done was interfere with the guy. He played his zone exactly like he should have, the only thing about that last play is what Herm Edwards brought up, there should have been more DB's in the end zone.

It sounds to me like you're seeing what you want to see and if that makes you feel better about the loss then that's cool but I'm not willing to accept that.
What about that fluke blocked kick play that we scored on? That happens far less than 10% of the time but you're not pointing it out at all because it worked in our favor.
That's my point - it's not about 1 play. It's about the whole effort.
It makes more sense to look at the bigger picture and the contributing factors which put us in that position in the first place. What if Gore didn't get injured? What if we hadn't failed to convert a single third down? What if we ran the ball less? What if VD had dropped one of those TD catches?
The what-if scenarios can go on endlessly because there are an endless number of things that could've changed the outcome of this game.
Blaming it on one fluke play doesn't make sense, regardless of when it happened, because that play was setup by everything that happened before it.

Man I gotta disagree here..... Were you around when the Raiders lost a playoff game to the Steelers on a deflected pass that was run in for a TD by Franco Harris? Or the deflected pass that Denver ran in for a long TD against the Bengals this season? The play that "beat" the Niners was absolutely a fluke and even though it didn't happen in a vacuum like you said, it was still a fluke.... In other words, it took a freak play and some questionable officiating to have the game come out like it did.

To answer your comment about the blocked kick, I could use the same argument about the kickoff return that the Vikes had later......not nearly the fluke that the last pass was....which was essentially a "Hail Mary" that was answered. If the same play was repeated 100 times, maybe 2-3 times it happens like it did yesterday...probably just once.

Favre admitted he threw the ball as hard as he could to "an area" where he thought the receiver would be and the receiver only had a general idea of where the end line was when he caught the ball. If Favre throws the ball a foot in any other direction, the ball is incomplete or knocked down. If the receiver's first foot down is a single inch or two to the left, the call is obvious and it is no touchdown.....and then there is the call itself....also questionable. Basically, the stars had to align for that play to work.
I like what Sing had to say afterwards. Any time you lose a game like this, there is always second guessing, replaying, what ifs, what thens, blah, blah, blah.... Bottom line is the Niners lost on a fluke. What can you do is except give credit to the officials and move on...

I understand most people here probably disagree with me but that's fine.
I think blaming the loss on the fluke play makes you overlook the real reasons why we lost.
If Sing wants to improve this team, he won't be spending the next week focusing on "How Favre completed that pass". He'll be focused on everything else we did wrong like some of the poor offensive playcalling, our inability to run, how we didn't convert any third downs and how our special teams gave away a touchdown to a rookie kick returner. Ultimately, it's a culmination of these things that put us where we were, defending a 4 point lead with one of the games most feared 4th quarter comeback QBs leading the charge. Let's be honest, watching that last drive, I think we all felt it in the pit of our stomach. If anyone could bring the Vikings back, Favre could. Hell he had only done it like 40 times previously.

Completely agree. We are excusing this loss because it was a "Superbowl" bound team that won on a "luck" play. We make our own luck and the Vikings, to the NFL, still have not played any special team yet and they could possibly collapse and be an 8 win team once they begin to play tougher offensive teams where they will need to score more points.

The fact is that we learned that we made some mistakes and if we keep making these types of mistakes, things will not always go in our favor.

Remember, we let Kurt Warner have two chances under 4 minutes also. Who knows, if Boldin was 100% and their third WR wasn't hurt, they may have drove all the way down.

Looking back at this game and trying to figure out where we stand is BS. We lost this game and we need to figure out WHY we lost it and fix it!

We should be 3-0.

I agree that the Niners should always look at areas where they can improve and then work on those. That goes without saying....every NFL team does that. My point was the Niners didn't lose last Sunday because they went 0-11 on third down or because Bly dropped a potential interception/TD (although those may have been contributing factors). They actually lost the game on a freak play.

So....sometimes sh*t happens and there isn't a lot you can do... Sometimes, the deserving team doesn't win....and that is just the breaks. If you want to talk about creating more breaks and creating luck, that is another discussion. The Niners don't need to apologize for losing to the Vikes and I think that was the point that Sing was trying to make after the game. Like I said, give the Vikes and officials credit and move on....

Originally posted by nw9erfan:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by scopur49er:

Originally posted by nw9erfan:

Originally posted by scopur49er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by scopur49er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by scopur49er:

Originally posted by Canadian49er:

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by djfullshred:
We learned that Singletary/Raye are not going to deviate from the situational play calling chart that tells them to run the ball no matter what if you have a lead in the 4th quarter - even if you are leaving enough time for the other team to come back if you don't get a 1st down.

So true and so scary. The really frightening thing is the quote attributed to Sing saying he won't 2nd guess Raye and wouldn't analyze his play choices???!!!! WTF! Has he been watching our each game ended with our inability to even get first downs and repeatedly going 3 and outs while stubbornly running for negative yards? "Won't analyze"? Isn't that the job of the head coach.

We lost on the luckiest 32 yard pass and catch you will ever see...

There's nothing wrong with the play calling. Just bad luck

We ran the clock down so that the Vikings eventually had to score on a bomb with 2 seconds left on the clock. I'll take that every single game

When you stubbornly and ineffectively run the ball up the middle against the best run defense in the league and go 0-11 in 3rd down conversions then yes, there is something very wrong with the offensive playcalling.

The Vikings are not even as good on run D as we are, even after this game. The strategy was sound on the play calling, we got beat on a one in a thousand throw and catch. Even Farve admitted as much saying "I knew I was gonna get hit, so I just threw it as hard as I can". Sometimes the offense wins, it is just that simple.

See I don't buy that argument at all.
I don't believe one play ever makes or breaks you. There's 60 minutes of football and plenty of opportunities to extend your lead or lose it.
Look at the game as a whole and our offensive playcalling was sub-par. Our third down conversions couldn't have been worse. Our defense couldn't get off the field like they were supposed to. Too many factors play into the outcome of a game to simply say "we lost because of a one in a thousand throw and catch".

It's too convenient and too easy of an excuse and I guarantee you not a single coach or player on the team is going to look at it that same way because it'll prevent them from seeing what the real problems were.
If you're Singletary, there's no way you're satisfied with how we played as a whole. We did some things right and we did some things wrong but they won't use that final play as an excuse and I don't see why we need to either.

We played as well as we can with the QB that we have. We lost because of a play that if they were to run it a thousand times, they succeed maybe 10% of the time. It was a fluke play, not a high percentage pass at all. There is no way Singletary is happy with the overall play, but the same could likely have been said even if we had won that game. The o line and QB were sore spots for us, Hill once again only had one good drive and looked average the rest of the day. The defense played well all day and in the end our 5th or maybe 6th DB got beat on a play that was a perfect throw and excellent catch. I do not even blame Roman for that play, the only other thing he could have done was interfere with the guy. He played his zone exactly like he should have, the only thing about that last play is what Herm Edwards brought up, there should have been more DB's in the end zone.

It sounds to me like you're seeing what you want to see and if that makes you feel better about the loss then that's cool but I'm not willing to accept that.
What about that fluke blocked kick play that we scored on? That happens far less than 10% of the time but you're not pointing it out at all because it worked in our favor.
That's my point - it's not about 1 play. It's about the whole effort.
It makes more sense to look at the bigger picture and the contributing factors which put us in that position in the first place. What if Gore didn't get injured? What if we hadn't failed to convert a single third down? What if we ran the ball less? What if VD had dropped one of those TD catches?
The what-if scenarios can go on endlessly because there are an endless number of things that could've changed the outcome of this game.
Blaming it on one fluke play doesn't make sense, regardless of when it happened, because that play was setup by everything that happened before it.

Man I gotta disagree here..... Were you around when the Raiders lost a playoff game to the Steelers on a deflected pass that was run in for a TD by Franco Harris? Or the deflected pass that Denver ran in for a long TD against the Bengals this season? The play that "beat" the Niners was absolutely a fluke and even though it didn't happen in a vacuum like you said, it was still a fluke.... In other words, it took a freak play and some questionable officiating to have the game come out like it did.

To answer your comment about the blocked kick, I could use the same argument about the kickoff return that the Vikes had later......not nearly the fluke that the last pass was....which was essentially a "Hail Mary" that was answered. If the same play was repeated 100 times, maybe 2-3 times it happens like it did yesterday...probably just once.

Favre admitted he threw the ball as hard as he could to "an area" where he thought the receiver would be and the receiver only had a general idea of where the end line was when he caught the ball. If Favre throws the ball a foot in any other direction, the ball is incomplete or knocked down. If the receiver's first foot down is a single inch or two to the left, the call is obvious and it is no touchdown.....and then there is the call itself....also questionable. Basically, the stars had to align for that play to work.
I like what Sing had to say afterwards. Any time you lose a game like this, there is always second guessing, replaying, what ifs, what thens, blah, blah, blah.... Bottom line is the Niners lost on a fluke. What can you do is except give credit to the officials and move on...

I understand most people here probably disagree with me but that's fine.
I think blaming the loss on the fluke play makes you overlook the real reasons why we lost.
If Sing wants to improve this team, he won't be spending the next week focusing on "How Favre completed that pass". He'll be focused on everything else we did wrong like some of the poor offensive playcalling, our inability to run, how we didn't convert any third downs and how our special teams gave away a touchdown to a rookie kick returner. Ultimately, it's a culmination of these things that put us where we were, defending a 4 point lead with one of the games most feared 4th quarter comeback QBs leading the charge. Let's be honest, watching that last drive, I think we all felt it in the pit of our stomach. If anyone could bring the Vikings back, Favre could. Hell he had only done it like 40 times previously.

Completely agree. We are excusing this loss because it was a "Superbowl" bound team that won on a "luck" play. We make our own luck and the Vikings, to the NFL, still have not played any special team yet and they could possibly collapse and be an 8 win team once they begin to play tougher offensive teams where they will need to score more points.

The fact is that we learned that we made some mistakes and if we keep making these types of mistakes, things will not always go in our favor.

Remember, we let Kurt Warner have two chances under 4 minutes also. Who knows, if Boldin was 100% and their third WR wasn't hurt, they may have drove all the way down.

Looking back at this game and trying to figure out where we stand is BS. We lost this game and we need to figure out WHY we lost it and fix it!

We should be 3-0.

I agree that the Niners should always look at areas where they can improve and then work on those. That goes without saying....every NFL team does that. My point was the Niners didn't lose last Sunday because they went 0-11 on third down or because Bly dropped a potential interception/TD (although those may have been contributing factors). They actually lost the game on a freak play.

So....sometimes sh*t happens and there isn't a lot you can do... Sometimes, the deserving team doesn't win....and that is just the breaks. If you want to talk about creating more breaks and creating luck, that is another discussion. The Niners don't need to apologize for losing to the Vikes and I think that was the point that Sing was trying to make after the game. Like I said, give the Vikes and officials credit and move on....

A freak play does not beat you if you seize the opportunities to win. This team had multiple opportunities to win and simply did not make the plays. This team did not deserve to win; it deserved to lose because it failed to make the plays that teams that win make. The TEAM had at least six chances to seize the victory and failed.

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Chief:
That Shaun Hill the best QB on this team and a solid starter in the NFL.

This staement is laughable imo.

why is it laughable. Shaun Hill has proven he is a capable QB for us, or do you not remember his 2 clutch 4th quarter drives this year against AZ and MIN

Do you remember when those were the only two drives that he put together, and if he was a decent quarterback, we wouldn't even be close to having to be in that position at that point in the game? Meaning our defense is good enough and gives our offense enough chances to blow a team out?

1 good drive a game, whenever its made, doesnt make a quarterback a "solid starter in the NFL" IMO. Maybe the best on our team, but he's still pretty bad.

I learned that the NFL will do whatever it can to glorify Favre's legacy. The League loves it that he is still in the game and not just that but that his team is winning.

It's too obvious now days and makes it me sick. They called a BS roughing the passer call on Justin Smith when he attempted to knock Favre down by his feet. The NFL would have hated Favre to get hurt before next Monday Night's game between him and Green Bay. Come on now did you see the referee helping Favre fix his shoulder pad after a hit?

F*ck Favre. Like Matt Barrows stated (which surprised me a bit), Favre wants to portray a tough, hard working all American guy when he is really just a pre -madonna who loves the attention. I hope Green Bay ends his season.