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It's Time to Call Out the OL.... Again

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I still think the OL is being placed under difficult situations. The Defense knows when and where we are running and they know when we are passing. I just hope we try to make it easier on the OL and have the opposing defense guessing just a little bit.

I'll actually agree with you there Joe, and by no means am I letting the predictable play-calling escape. However, if you're a coach and you're saying we're going to run "x" play or be an "x"-type offense, your guys need to execute that and if they can't someone needs to tell the truth and say "these guys can't do that." This is what's most frustrating -

The denial.

Don't say that "it made sense at the time..." Giving a HOF QB the ball back with 1:26 doesn't make sense to me. We did the same thing in Arizona and if not for a fluke sack, Warner completes that pass. This time Justin Smith gets blocked and the ball is thrown.

Scott needs to get over his issue with paying OGs or draft better ones because they're not able to run the type of offense his coach would like to have.

That's what it comes down to. We want to power between the Tackles. To do that, you need Guards that are very very good. We want to pass less, therefore our Tackles don't need to be great.
if you really think about it, the OL hasn't done s**t for our running game all year. Take away those two huge runs by gore, and we're probably last in the league in rushing.
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
if you really think about it, the OL hasn't done s**t for our running game all year. Take away those two huge runs by gore, and we're probably last in the league in rushing.

Yeah, and if you take away Vernon Davis from the game on Sunday we'd have no Tight End and no points.
Originally posted by Joecool:
I still think the OL is being placed under difficult situations. The Defense knows when and where we are running and they know when we are passing. I just hope we try to make it easier on the OL and have the opposing defense guessing just a little bit.

BINGO! I agree that the Offensive Line is less than stellar, but the coaches HAVE to acknowledge that fact and stop insisting on doing the same thing over and over again!

With Gore's injury, it will become more of a priority make changes in the offensive schemes than the smash mouth "here we come, try and stop us" approach.

It's OK to try it a few times but when it becomes obvious that it ISN'T working, they must try something DIFFERENT.
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
if you really think about it, the OL hasn't done s**t for our running game all year. Take away those two huge runs by gore, and we're probably last in the league in rushing.

Yeah, and if you take away Vernon Davis from the game on Sunday we'd have no Tight End and no points.

Only 1 sack given up last week against a very good front. Can't complain about that!
Originally posted by Kauaiguy:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I still think the OL is being placed under difficult situations. The Defense knows when and where we are running and they know when we are passing. I just hope we try to make it easier on the OL and have the opposing defense guessing just a little bit.

BINGO! I agree that the Offensive Line is less than stellar, but the coaches HAVE to acknowledge that fact and stop insisting on doing the same thing over and over again!

With Gore's injury, it will become more of a priority make changes in the offensive schemes than the smash mouth "here we come, try and stop us" approach.

It's OK to try it a few times but when it becomes obvious that it ISN'T working, they must try something DIFFERENT.

The Offenses KEY advantage is that it knows what we are going to do and the defense doesn't. I can't say this for our team.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by redmanc07:
Originally posted by elguapo:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
It was a tough loss, but call a spade a spade boys and girls; the OL really is bad and didn't help create one 3rd down conversion. How many times are we going to deny the truth? It's not WR. It certainly isn't the QB because if Hill plays behind Matt Ryan's or even Sanchez's line, we'd be talking about Pro Bowl QB Shaun Hill. It's ridiculous that this OL has been allowed to lay eggs without mounting criticism. From pass blocking to run blocking - when this OL is put ina palce or a place where thay have to do what they need to do they lay an egg. Yes, you can blame Raye for his play calling - but seriously - even with Brandon Jones as the deep threat, the OL must play a lot better if the 49ers are going to win a lot of games this season.

Staley hurt? Simms as the replacement? Well isn't life swell. I told you "we-need-a-#1-receiver-yahoos" that a serious lack of talent and depth on the OL would be the rise or fall of this team. The fact we were in this game is testament to just how good the secondary and LBs corps are on this team - despite having a very average DL (what possessed Manusky to only rush 4 against BRETT FAVRE escapes me), we still hung in there.

Hill and Davis MANUFACTURED points with little help from their - well if you can call that blocking.

Let's be serious here. Next year's draft needs to be completely dedicated to the OL. If we convert ONE or TWO - ONE or TWO 3rd downs, THE GAME IS OVER - OVER - 3-0. Yes we can blame Mark Roman, but the real problem is the OL.

I remember starting this thread LAST YEAR -

OL Denial.

Completely agree...Even though we have probably the worst OL in the league, it just shows Gore Davis Hill are among the best in the league because they have no help unlike any other team. If our players are on another team with even an average OL, GORE probowl, Hill probowl, Davis probowl. It's reality....people don't see it that way most of the time they can't use logic or analyze.

Petersen is great but put gore behind that OL and he is the best back in the league.

Whoa are you serious?? The worst in the league doesn't produce a 200 yd rusher in one game. We have a middle of the pack maybe slightly above average line. We need to secure the RT spot to become better and Hill is not amongst the best in the league at QB. I wouldn't put him anywhere near Manning or Brady.

200 yard game that was based on TWO runs both of which Gore got free and ran away from everyone. Now if robinson, coffee and sheets got 70 yards a piece, I'd say we have a decent line. Egg laid in Phoenix and no 3rd down conversions in Minn. Even against the Hawks, how many sacks did we give up again? The oline sucks and fans are in oline denial. No - a middle-of-the-pack oline is Denver or San Diego or Green Bay or Chicago. I judge the effectivness of the oline by 3rd down conversions. This one sucks.

I agree if you take away those two runs we are left with 164 yds in three games on 78 carries averaging 2.10 yds a pop ------ I would say that Gore made things look better with those two runs than they really are.

I gotta add predictable play calling doesn't help.
[ Edited by 49ERwhiner on Sep 29, 2009 at 11:45 AM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by niner_empire:
hmm... if im not mistaken, last week when gore ran for 200+ our o line was fine? knee jerk reaction much?

One great throw from Favre, and the O-line goes from "good" to "garbage."

This is not the first time Favre has split the fan base open.

No, the OL was garbage before the Favre throw. The OL was garbage the whole game. The fact that there was not one 3rd down conversion for 60 minutes says the OL was garbage. Yes good against the Hawks missing 8 starters and cerainly there were not good against the Cards. Bigger game, bigger egg-laying.

They suck. No more excuses.

I guess we just disagree.

Tom Brady made a play the other day where his left tackle was being pushed into him from behind.

He didn't even turn his head to look. He just stood there, and made the excellent throw.

An average quarterback would have immediately tried to run out of the pocket and most likely would have gotten sacked in the escape attempt.

This happens to us all the time. The protection is there, but our quarterback scrambles into a sack.

I like Hill, but he sometimes rushes his throws when the protection is there, and his arm isn't strong enough to make a tough throw off balance.

The top quarterbacks ignore and avoid pressure and are always looking to make a throw.

We need a RT and better play calling. I think the rest of our line is just fine.
Originally posted by 49ERwhiner:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by redmanc07:
Originally posted by elguapo:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
It was a tough loss, but call a spade a spade boys and girls; the OL really is bad and didn't help create one 3rd down conversion. How many times are we going to deny the truth? It's not WR. It certainly isn't the QB because if Hill plays behind Matt Ryan's or even Sanchez's line, we'd be talking about Pro Bowl QB Shaun Hill. It's ridiculous that this OL has been allowed to lay eggs without mounting criticism. From pass blocking to run blocking - when this OL is put ina palce or a place where thay have to do what they need to do they lay an egg. Yes, you can blame Raye for his play calling - but seriously - even with Brandon Jones as the deep threat, the OL must play a lot better if the 49ers are going to win a lot of games this season.

Staley hurt? Simms as the replacement? Well isn't life swell. I told you "we-need-a-#1-receiver-yahoos" that a serious lack of talent and depth on the OL would be the rise or fall of this team. The fact we were in this game is testament to just how good the secondary and LBs corps are on this team - despite having a very average DL (what possessed Manusky to only rush 4 against BRETT FAVRE escapes me), we still hung in there.

Hill and Davis MANUFACTURED points with little help from their - well if you can call that blocking.

Let's be serious here. Next year's draft needs to be completely dedicated to the OL. If we convert ONE or TWO - ONE or TWO 3rd downs, THE GAME IS OVER - OVER - 3-0. Yes we can blame Mark Roman, but the real problem is the OL.

I remember starting this thread LAST YEAR -

OL Denial.

Completely agree...Even though we have probably the worst OL in the league, it just shows Gore Davis Hill are among the best in the league because they have no help unlike any other team. If our players are on another team with even an average OL, GORE probowl, Hill probowl, Davis probowl. It's reality....people don't see it that way most of the time they can't use logic or analyze.

Petersen is great but put gore behind that OL and he is the best back in the league.

Whoa are you serious?? The worst in the league doesn't produce a 200 yd rusher in one game. We have a middle of the pack maybe slightly above average line. We need to secure the RT spot to become better and Hill is not amongst the best in the league at QB. I wouldn't put him anywhere near Manning or Brady.

200 yard game that was based on TWO runs both of which Gore got free and ran away from everyone. Now if robinson, coffee and sheets got 70 yards a piece, I'd say we have a decent line. Egg laid in Phoenix and no 3rd down conversions in Minn. Even against the Hawks, how many sacks did we give up again? The oline sucks and fans are in oline denial. No - a middle-of-the-pack oline is Denver or San Diego or Green Bay or Chicago. I judge the effectivness of the oline by 3rd down conversions. This one sucks.

I agree if you take away those two runs we are left with 164 yds in three games on 78 carries averaging 2.10 yds a pop ------ I would say that Gore made things look better with those two runs than they really are.

I gotta add predictable play calling doesn't help.

Didn't gore actually make those runs? Don't those count just as much as the running plays that go for negative yards? If you pick and choose what runs you do and don't want to look at you can skew the numbers to say whatever you want them to say.

Look at facts. Gore did make those runs and we have had runs that count as a loss. If Gore didn't make those runs, who's to say that he would or wouldn't have had more success running other plays. At the end of the day, we're not doing to bad in the run game.
i'd rather have a consistent running game than a home run once a game accompanied by a bunch of runs for losses or minimal gains.
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
i'd rather have a consistent running game than a home run once a game accompanied by a bunch of runs for losses or minimal gains.

Me too; but, I'd also rather have a couple of home runs instead of only 2.10 yards per carry. At the end of the day it's all an average anyways though...
[ Edited by D_Niner on Sep 29, 2009 at 3:57 PM ]
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by niner_empire:
hmm... if im not mistaken, last week when gore ran for 200+ our o line was fine? knee jerk reaction much?

One great throw from Favre, and the O-line goes from "good" to "garbage."

This is not the first time Favre has split the fan base open.

No, the OL was garbage before the Favre throw. The OL was garbage the whole game. The fact that there was not one 3rd down conversion for 60 minutes says the OL was garbage. Yes good against the Hawks missing 8 starters and cerainly there were not good against the Cards. Bigger game, bigger egg-laying.

They suck. No more excuses.

I guess we just disagree.

Tom Brady made a play the other day where his left tackle was being pushed into him from behind.

He didn't even turn his head to look. He just stood there, and made the excellent throw.

An average quarterback would have immediately tried to run out of the pocket and most likely would have gotten sacked in the escape attempt.

This happens to us all the time. The protection is there, but our quarterback scrambles into a sack.

I like Hill, but he sometimes rushes his throws when the protection is there, and his arm isn't strong enough to make a tough throw off balance.

The top quarterbacks ignore and avoid pressure and are always looking to make a throw.

We need a RT and better play calling. I think the rest of our line is just fine.

Sorry Brian, but this isn't about agreeing to disagree.

0-11 on 3rd down is a fact that's always, always, always bad. That's not a matter of opinion, that's an absolute on any team in any era in any game bud.
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by 49ERwhiner:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by redmanc07:
Originally posted by elguapo:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
It was a tough loss, but call a spade a spade boys and girls; the OL really is bad and didn't help create one 3rd down conversion. How many times are we going to deny the truth? It's not WR. It certainly isn't the QB because if Hill plays behind Matt Ryan's or even Sanchez's line, we'd be talking about Pro Bowl QB Shaun Hill. It's ridiculous that this OL has been allowed to lay eggs without mounting criticism. From pass blocking to run blocking - when this OL is put ina palce or a place where thay have to do what they need to do they lay an egg. Yes, you can blame Raye for his play calling - but seriously - even with Brandon Jones as the deep threat, the OL must play a lot better if the 49ers are going to win a lot of games this season.

Staley hurt? Simms as the replacement? Well isn't life swell. I told you "we-need-a-#1-receiver-yahoos" that a serious lack of talent and depth on the OL would be the rise or fall of this team. The fact we were in this game is testament to just how good the secondary and LBs corps are on this team - despite having a very average DL (what possessed Manusky to only rush 4 against BRETT FAVRE escapes me), we still hung in there.

Hill and Davis MANUFACTURED points with little help from their - well if you can call that blocking.

Let's be serious here. Next year's draft needs to be completely dedicated to the OL. If we convert ONE or TWO - ONE or TWO 3rd downs, THE GAME IS OVER - OVER - 3-0. Yes we can blame Mark Roman, but the real problem is the OL.

I remember starting this thread LAST YEAR -

OL Denial.

Completely agree...Even though we have probably the worst OL in the league, it just shows Gore Davis Hill are among the best in the league because they have no help unlike any other team. If our players are on another team with even an average OL, GORE probowl, Hill probowl, Davis probowl. It's reality....people don't see it that way most of the time they can't use logic or analyze.

Petersen is great but put gore behind that OL and he is the best back in the league.

Whoa are you serious?? The worst in the league doesn't produce a 200 yd rusher in one game. We have a middle of the pack maybe slightly above average line. We need to secure the RT spot to become better and Hill is not amongst the best in the league at QB. I wouldn't put him anywhere near Manning or Brady.

200 yard game that was based on TWO runs both of which Gore got free and ran away from everyone. Now if robinson, coffee and sheets got 70 yards a piece, I'd say we have a decent line. Egg laid in Phoenix and no 3rd down conversions in Minn. Even against the Hawks, how many sacks did we give up again? The oline sucks and fans are in oline denial. No - a middle-of-the-pack oline is Denver or San Diego or Green Bay or Chicago. I judge the effectivness of the oline by 3rd down conversions. This one sucks.

I agree if you take away those two runs we are left with 164 yds in three games on 78 carries averaging 2.10 yds a pop ------ I would say that Gore made things look better with those two runs than they really are.

I gotta add predictable play calling doesn't help.

Didn't gore actually make those runs? Don't those count just as much as the running plays that go for negative yards? If you pick and choose what runs you do and don't want to look at you can skew the numbers to say whatever you want them to say.

Look at facts. Gore did make those runs and we have had runs that count as a loss. If Gore didn't make those runs, who's to say that he would or wouldn't have had more success running other plays. At the end of the day, we're not doing to bad in the run game.

Fine. I'll give you Gore's highly unlikely run against the Hawks - but if I look at 3rd down conversions over 3 games, we're LAST IN THE LEAGUE.

You can't sustain offense without reliable pass protection, consistent running and most importantly, 3rd down conversions. Sure we can isolate the argument about Gore and fine - agree the OL did open up some holes for Gore to run against a lesser opponent. You can't say that the Cardinals and Vikings have the same defensive talent as the Hawks without starters playing - not even close.

Sorry, but this one I'm not going to budge - when you're 0-11 for 60 minutes on 3rd down MOST of the blame goes to the guys up front blocking and what they're trying (or being asked) to execute.

Average or "good" OLs don't have teams that go 0-11 on 3rd down.

It's just that simple.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Sep 29, 2009 at 4:38 PM ]
Let's bring this thread back.

Where are the "we have a pretty good OL" people?
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Let's bring this thread back.

Where are the "we have a pretty good OL" people?

prolly at the game