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It's Time to Call Out the OL.... Again

Originally posted by Schulzy:
Originally posted by BrianUKNiner:
O line and Offense grades: Week 1.

Offensive stats Week 1

Offensive Stats Week 2

Week 3's to follow this week, but Pashos, Sims and Snyder are not going to get the job done, I'm amazed that with all those 3 playing varying amounts today that we hung with one of the best defensive lines in the game and only went down by 3 points.

There has to be a SERIOUS upgrade in this next draft, heck, I'd take a Tackle and a Guard in Round 1 if it means looking after Hill and making lanes for Gore Sheets and Coffee.

Wow. That's an excellent website. Kind of luminates everything better. I'm a big stat guy so this stuff is awesome to look at.

Just for s**ts and giggles I'll list where every 49er is ranked at their respective position in the league so far.

Look at these defensive rankings so far!

DE (3-4 only)
Justin Smith - 1st overall/1st pass rush/24th run
Ray McDonald - 13/9/26
Isaac Sopoaga - 40/20/47

DT
Abrayo Franklin 9/15/25

ILB
Patrick Willis 16th overall/64th pass rush/4th in coverage/16th against the run
Takeo Spikes 24/47/8/31

OLB (3-4 only)
Payrs Haralson 2/1/29/2
Manny Lawson 35/40/2/25

CB
Nate Clements 3rd overall/1st in coverage/16th against the run
Shawntae Spencer 5/9/16
Dre Bly 31/28/46

S
Michael Lewis 55/75/20
Dashon Goldson 100/100/69
Mark Roman 20/19/32

NICE
Originally posted by NinerGM:
It was a tough loss, but call a spade a spade boys and girls; the OL really is bad and didn't help create one 3rd down conversion. How many times are we going to deny the truth? It's not WR. It certainly isn't the QB because if Hill plays behind Matt Ryan's or even Sanchez's line, we'd be talking about Pro Bowl QB Shaun Hill. It's ridiculous that this OL has been allowed to lay eggs without mounting criticism. From pass blocking to run blocking - when this OL is put ina palce or a place where thay have to do what they need to do they lay an egg. Yes, you can blame Raye for his play calling - but seriously - even with Brandon Jones as the deep threat, the OL must play a lot better if the 49ers are going to win a lot of games this season.

Staley hurt? Simms as the replacement? Well isn't life swell. I told you "we-need-a-#1-receiver-yahoos" that a serious lack of talent and depth on the OL would be the rise or fall of this team. The fact we were in this game is testament to just how good the secondary and LBs corps are on this team - despite having a very average DL (what possessed Manusky to only rush 4 against BRETT FAVRE escapes me), we still hung in there.

Hill and Davis MANUFACTURED points with little help from their - well if you can call that blocking.

Let's be serious here. Next year's draft needs to be completely dedicated to the OL. If we convert ONE or TWO - ONE or TWO 3rd downs, THE GAME IS OVER - OVER - 3-0. Yes we can blame Mark Roman, but the real problem is the OL.

I remember starting this thread LAST YEAR -

OL Denial.

Completely agree...Even though we have probably the worst OL in the league, it just shows Gore Davis Hill are among the best in the league because they have no help unlike any other team. If our players are on another team with even an average OL, GORE probowl, Hill probowl, Davis probowl. It's reality....people don't see it that way most of the time they can't use logic or analyze.

Petersen is great but put gore behind that OL and he is the best back in the league.
OK, let's say that I agree with those who believe that the Offensive line stinks. So, what's the 49er's to do about it for the REST of the season? Pick up some good offensive people that just happens to be out of work? Gosh why NOT there must be a dozen or so of them out there just hanging around!

Fact is: A good Offensive Coach makes ADJUSTMENTS as the game goes along. They don't insists on doing the SAME thing over and over again when it's NOT working!

Their current running schemes didn't work with Arizona and the Vikings. May work with the Rams, but doubtful that it will work against the Falcons, Colts, Titans, Bears and Packers which they will be facing shortly.

I just read an article where Singletary said that he didn't want his DEFENSE to close out the games. Well, unless he makes some offensive changes, that's EXACTLY what the defense will be counted on to do!
[ Edited by Kauaiguy on Sep 29, 2009 at 12:27 AM ]
Originally posted by niner_empire:
hmm... if im not mistaken, last week when gore ran for 200+ our o line was fine? knee jerk reaction much?

One great throw from Favre, and the O-line goes from "good" to "garbage."

This is not the first time Favre has split the fan base open.
Originally posted by elguapo:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
It was a tough loss, but call a spade a spade boys and girls; the OL really is bad and didn't help create one 3rd down conversion. How many times are we going to deny the truth? It's not WR. It certainly isn't the QB because if Hill plays behind Matt Ryan's or even Sanchez's line, we'd be talking about Pro Bowl QB Shaun Hill. It's ridiculous that this OL has been allowed to lay eggs without mounting criticism. From pass blocking to run blocking - when this OL is put ina palce or a place where thay have to do what they need to do they lay an egg. Yes, you can blame Raye for his play calling - but seriously - even with Brandon Jones as the deep threat, the OL must play a lot better if the 49ers are going to win a lot of games this season.

Staley hurt? Simms as the replacement? Well isn't life swell. I told you "we-need-a-#1-receiver-yahoos" that a serious lack of talent and depth on the OL would be the rise or fall of this team. The fact we were in this game is testament to just how good the secondary and LBs corps are on this team - despite having a very average DL (what possessed Manusky to only rush 4 against BRETT FAVRE escapes me), we still hung in there.

Hill and Davis MANUFACTURED points with little help from their - well if you can call that blocking.

Let's be serious here. Next year's draft needs to be completely dedicated to the OL. If we convert ONE or TWO - ONE or TWO 3rd downs, THE GAME IS OVER - OVER - 3-0. Yes we can blame Mark Roman, but the real problem is the OL.

I remember starting this thread LAST YEAR -

OL Denial.

Completely agree...Even though we have probably the worst OL in the league, it just shows Gore Davis Hill are among the best in the league because they have no help unlike any other team. If our players are on another team with even an average OL, GORE probowl, Hill probowl, Davis probowl. It's reality....people don't see it that way most of the time they can't use logic or analyze.

Petersen is great but put gore behind that OL and he is the best back in the league.

Whoa are you serious?? The worst in the league doesn't produce a 200 yd rusher in one game. We have a middle of the pack maybe slightly above average line. We need to secure the RT spot to become better and Hill is not amongst the best in the league at QB. I wouldn't put him anywhere near Manning or Brady.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by niner_empire:
hmm... if im not mistaken, last week when gore ran for 200+ our o line was fine? knee jerk reaction much?

One great throw from Favre, and the O-line goes from "good" to "garbage."

This is not the first time Favre has split the fan base open.

No, the OL was garbage before the Favre throw. The OL was garbage the whole game. The fact that there was not one 3rd down conversion for 60 minutes says the OL was garbage. Yes good against the Hawks missing 8 starters and cerainly there were not good against the Cards. Bigger game, bigger egg-laying.

They suck. No more excuses.
Originally posted by redmanc07:
Originally posted by elguapo:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
It was a tough loss, but call a spade a spade boys and girls; the OL really is bad and didn't help create one 3rd down conversion. How many times are we going to deny the truth? It's not WR. It certainly isn't the QB because if Hill plays behind Matt Ryan's or even Sanchez's line, we'd be talking about Pro Bowl QB Shaun Hill. It's ridiculous that this OL has been allowed to lay eggs without mounting criticism. From pass blocking to run blocking - when this OL is put ina palce or a place where thay have to do what they need to do they lay an egg. Yes, you can blame Raye for his play calling - but seriously - even with Brandon Jones as the deep threat, the OL must play a lot better if the 49ers are going to win a lot of games this season.

Staley hurt? Simms as the replacement? Well isn't life swell. I told you "we-need-a-#1-receiver-yahoos" that a serious lack of talent and depth on the OL would be the rise or fall of this team. The fact we were in this game is testament to just how good the secondary and LBs corps are on this team - despite having a very average DL (what possessed Manusky to only rush 4 against BRETT FAVRE escapes me), we still hung in there.

Hill and Davis MANUFACTURED points with little help from their - well if you can call that blocking.

Let's be serious here. Next year's draft needs to be completely dedicated to the OL. If we convert ONE or TWO - ONE or TWO 3rd downs, THE GAME IS OVER - OVER - 3-0. Yes we can blame Mark Roman, but the real problem is the OL.

I remember starting this thread LAST YEAR -

OL Denial.

Completely agree...Even though we have probably the worst OL in the league, it just shows Gore Davis Hill are among the best in the league because they have no help unlike any other team. If our players are on another team with even an average OL, GORE probowl, Hill probowl, Davis probowl. It's reality....people don't see it that way most of the time they can't use logic or analyze.

Petersen is great but put gore behind that OL and he is the best back in the league.

Whoa are you serious?? The worst in the league doesn't produce a 200 yd rusher in one game. We have a middle of the pack maybe slightly above average line. We need to secure the RT spot to become better and Hill is not amongst the best in the league at QB. I wouldn't put him anywhere near Manning or Brady.

200 yard game that was based on TWO runs both of which Gore got free and ran away from everyone. Now if robinson, coffee and sheets got 70 yards a piece, I'd say we have a decent line. Egg laid in Phoenix and no 3rd down conversions in Minn. Even against the Hawks, how many sacks did we give up again? The oline sucks and fans are in oline denial. No - a middle-of-the-pack oline is Denver or San Diego or Green Bay or Chicago. I judge the effectivness of the oline by 3rd down conversions. This one sucks.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
It was a tough loss, but call a spade a spade boys and girls; the OL really is bad and didn't help create one 3rd down conversion. How many times are we going to deny the truth? It's not WR. It certainly isn't the QB because if Hill plays behind Matt Ryan's or even Sanchez's line, we'd be talking about Pro Bowl QB Shaun Hill. It's ridiculous that this OL has been allowed to lay eggs without mounting criticism. From pass blocking to run blocking - when this OL is put ina palce or a place where thay have to do what they need to do they lay an egg. Yes, you can blame Raye for his play calling - but seriously - even with Brandon Jones as the deep threat, the OL must play a lot better if the 49ers are going to win a lot of games this season.

Staley hurt? Simms as the replacement? Well isn't life swell. I told you "we-need-a-#1-receiver-yahoos" that a serious lack of talent and depth on the OL would be the rise or fall of this team. The fact we were in this game is testament to just how good the secondary and LBs corps are on this team - despite having a very average DL (what possessed Manusky to only rush 4 against BRETT FAVRE escapes me), we still hung in there.

Hill and Davis MANUFACTURED points with little help from their - well if you can call that blocking.

Let's be serious here. Next year's draft needs to be completely dedicated to the OL. If we convert ONE or TWO - ONE or TWO 3rd downs, THE GAME IS OVER - OVER - 3-0. Yes we can blame Mark Roman, but the real problem is the OL.

I remember starting this thread LAST YEAR -

OL Denial.

I agree with 95% of this post (S Hill a probowl QB )

The Oline has looked horrible for the most part so far this season. Minus 2 gaping holes their blocking, run or pass, has been pedestrian at best.
Lol--what really sucks about all of this is that it is shaping up to be just another "woulda shoulda coulda" situation, starting with Alex Smith (shoulda taken Rodgers) and ending this year with Craptree (shoulda taken Oher). Obviously, hindsight is 20-20, and at the time we all probably were amped for both of those picks (and the many others that we whiffed on). Still, because of poor drafting, we have some big holes to fill.....our current offensive philosophy is predicated on 2 things:
1. the knowledge that we don't have the QB or receivers to be a passing team, and
2. having a dominant O-line to take advantage of our best offensive player. Now we are in a pickle and next year's draft is more important than ever. We are making progress and I love it, but let's face it: we aren't there yet. The question is do we have the QB of the future on the roster, or do we draft one next year? Do we draft a WR again? Or do we go OL heavy (my personal choice). I would much rather spend the entire season and off-season developing Davis and then remake our OL with one of our first rounders....
Folks just don't want to see but this o line is just barely average. And it's more than the RT.
I'm sensing a theme here
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Originally posted by BrianUKNiner:
O line and Offense grades: Week 1.

Offensive stats Week 1

Offensive Stats Week 2

Week 3's to follow this week, but Pashos, Sims and Snyder are not going to get the job done, I'm amazed that with all those 3 playing varying amounts today that we hung with one of the best defensive lines in the game and only went down by 3 points.

There has to be a SERIOUS upgrade in this next draft, heck, I'd take a Tackle and a Guard in Round 1 if it means looking after Hill and making lanes for Gore Sheets and Coffee.

Wow. That's an excellent website. Kind of luminates everything better. I'm a big stat guy so this stuff is awesome to look at.

Just for s**ts and giggles I'll list where every 49er is ranked at their respective position in the league so far.

Look at these defensive rankings so far!

DE (3-4 only)
Justin Smith - 1st overall/1st pass rush/24th run
Ray McDonald - 13/9/26
Isaac Sopoaga - 40/20/47

DT
Abrayo Franklin 9/15/25

ILB
Patrick Willis 16th overall/64th pass rush/4th in coverage/16th against the run
Takeo Spikes 24/47/8/31

OLB (3-4 only)
Payrs Haralson 2/1/29/2
Manny Lawson 35/40/2/25

CB
Nate Clements 3rd overall/1st in coverage/16th against the run
Shawntae Spencer 5/9/16
Dre Bly 31/28/46

S
Michael Lewis 55/75/20
Dashon Goldson 100/100/69
Mark Roman 20/19/32

Wow! I'm surprised about P-Willy, but WHATS UP WITH NATE CLEMENTS!!!! Where are the haters now??
Originally posted by ajsjohnson:
Lol--what really sucks about all of this is that it is shaping up to be just another "woulda shoulda coulda" situation, starting with Alex Smith (shoulda taken Rodgers) and ending this year with Craptree (shoulda taken Oher). Obviously, hindsight is 20-20, and at the time we all probably were amped for both of those picks (and the many others that we whiffed on). Still, because of poor drafting, we have some big holes to fill.....our current offensive philosophy is predicated on 2 things:
1. the knowledge that we don't have the QB or receivers to be a passing team, and
2. having a dominant O-line to take advantage of our best offensive player. Now we are in a pickle and next year's draft is more important than ever. We are making progress and I love it, but let's face it: we aren't there yet. The question is do we have the QB of the future on the roster, or do we draft one next year? Do we draft a WR again? Or do we go OL heavy (my personal choice). I would much rather spend the entire season and off-season developing Davis and then remake our OL with one of our first rounders....

This isn't about Craptree - it's about signing a man coming off of 2 back surgeries as "the starter" to compete with your bench player. It's about your bench player telling you "he can start" - I mean what are bench players SUPPOSED to say? Either we don't have proper talent eval happening at the OL position or the competition is so bad that players look better than they really are. In any event, someone is supposed to know what good and bad looks like. Hmmm that means the fingers are starting to point at the OL coach.

Chris Forester

But honestly, it's not up to Chris to bring good talent, that Scotty's job and when it comes to drafting OL for the 49ers, he's done a just below average job. The only pick that's hands-down a positive is Staley. Jury is still out on everyone else as starters. It's odd because Scotty help find some great OG for the Packers and the Seahawks, why no great OG successes for the 49ers?

Either the talent sucks or it isn't being developed properly. In any case, the result is clear.
I still think the OL is being placed under difficult situations. The Defense knows when and where we are running and they know when we are passing. I just hope we try to make it easier on the OL and have the opposing defense guessing just a little bit.
Originally posted by Joecool:
I still think the OL is being placed under difficult situations. The Defense knows when and where we are running and they know when we are passing. I just hope we try to make it easier on the OL and have the opposing defense guessing just a little bit.

I'll actually agree with you there Joe, and by no means am I letting the predictable play-calling escape. However, if you're a coach and you're saying we're going to run "x" play or be an "x"-type offense, your guys need to execute that and if they can't someone needs to tell the truth and say "these guys can't do that." This is what's most frustrating -

The denial.

Don't say that "it made sense at the time..." Giving a HOF QB the ball back with 1:26 doesn't make sense to me. We did the same thing in Arizona and if not for a fluke sack, Warner completes that pass. This time Justin Smith gets blocked and the ball is thrown.

Scott needs to get over his issue with paying OGs or draft better ones because they're not able to run the type of offense his coach would like to have.