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So... is it Hill or is it our W.R.'s?

Originally posted by rum53:
Singletary is playing conservative game plans that have so far led to two wins. The niners are gaining momentum and confidence in their play. I fully expect to see the offensive game plan to open up as we continue our success. Look for more passes down the field this upcoming weekend, especially off the play action.

This.

Hill just looks tentative, not wanting to make mistakes downfield and possibly turn the ball over and put the defense in bad field position. As much as I don't like this style of offense (and Hill's play over these first two games), you have to hand it to Singletary/Raye...it's working. The defense is legit, Gore is back to his 2006 form and the short passing game is there whenever we want it.

It's definitely ugly football, but it's been very effective so far.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
hill. He can make the short throws. Hitting a receiver in stride, 30 yards down the field is another story.

this, and i know people are gonna say well he hit Brucs on the 50 yrad pass in stride in week 1 which is true, Hill can deliver that pass every once in a while but he is not consistent with it, Hills game is the short to mid passing game, which is usually where the RBs and TEs routes go.

So i dont see our WRs having big numbers with Hill as our QB. Im not saying for us to get rid of Hill and start Alex or anything like that, just dont expect big numbers from our WRs with Hill as our QB.

What we can expect with Hill though is managing the game, not making costly turnovers and most importantly giving us a chance to win the game, which he has shown he can do, he is 9-3 after all.

Lets go out and beat the Vikings

I'm not sure about this? All last year in Martz's system, even when it was dialed down a bit, Hill always made those throws. Yes, he had the bomb to Bruce but he also had many passes over 15 yards including in the endzone that were dropped including a 30 yarder yesterday! All QB's need to get into a rhythm and the type of offense we run is hard b/c it's doesn't offer up a lot of consistent opportunities for Hill to get into that rhythm, get in a groove and really start pinpointing those passes beyond 15 yards. You can't ask a guy to have all his passes (sparingly) under 15 yards and then once or twice a game expect him to hit a huge gain. ALL QB's would struggle with that (and they do) - then again, not many teams run an offense as conservative as ours so it's harder to compare.

NC, I believe you are spot on. There should be a 3rd option called Jimmy Raye. Hill is capable of throwing the ball. Just let him plus that would open up the run game even more.

LB
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by rum53:
Singletary is playing conservative game plans that have so far led to two wins. The niners are gaining momentum and confidence in their play. I fully expect to see the offensive game plan to open up as we continue our success. Look for more passes down the field this upcoming weekend, especially off the play action.

This.

Hill just looks tentative, not wanting to make mistakes downfield and possibly turn the ball over and put the defense in bad field position. As much as I don't like this style of offense (and Hill's play over these first two games), you have to hand it to Singletary/Raye...it's working. The defense is legit, Gore is back to his 2006 form and the short passing game is there whenever we want it.

It's definitely ugly football, but it's been very effective so far.


I agree with your guys points. I also think it will be interesting to see what happens when Jones comes back. It sounded like he was the deep pass option throughout TC, so I wonder if when he's back if we will see more shots downfield.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by lamontb:
I think it's both but it's more the WR's than Hill imo. I don't think the Wr's are really getting open. These wr's just aren't that great. And Bruce did drop a couple balls yesterday.

And I think a 20 yard pass to Walker was called back for holding too.

Yeah! It was called on #77. Man I hate that number!
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
hill. He can make the short throws. Hitting a receiver in stride, 30 yards down the field is another story.

Yeah, the only long throw I remember from yesterday looked like a Hail Mary
A number of you really hit it on the head.....It's a function of the offensive scheme and not a question of the receivers not getting open. Watching replays of the last two games, I saw a number of red/white jerseys finding open spaces downfield on passing plays.

Shaun Hill is a good game manager, and throws a pretty good ball from 25 yards and in. But any pass over that distance is still a crapshoot with him. Sometimes good / sometimes bad. He may have become a bit "gun shy" with Raye's offensive philosophy and holds back from taking any chances.

And as an aside, Crabtree's presence isn't going to change anything for this team based on the current offensive philosophy. A number of us fans agreed early this Spring that no WR would likely gain over 600-700 yards this year for the Niners. Which isn't a bad thing if the defense and the ground game are highly productive. We'll see how the alleged "tampering" charge against the Jets plays out.

Morgan / Jones / Bruce / Battle are a good fit for this offense. No need to pay $20 million for another blocking wide receiver.
  • Twister68
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by Twister68:
Yes, let's all start whining. Like we would be 3-0 after 2 games if we had more passing yards and catches.

this.



We're having a discussion, on a discussion forum, about whether the reason our WR's haven't produced is the QB's fault or the WR's fault. If every thread was "2-0 WOO HOO" this would be a very boring place. This is a valid discussion.

Sure. But I just don't know why you want to make an huge issue out of this? Singletary couldn't care less about the style points. Why put the ball up in the air if you don't have to? Why try those difficult throws if you can play it safe and still win? Do you really think that Charger fans are happier because Rivers and their WR's put up some ridiculous numbers yesterday?

This is yet another of those "pretty loss is better than ugly win" discussions.
It's both. A couple things are happening:
1. Hill has limited ability, but is great at managing a game, avoiding mistakes and let's face it--he is a gamer

2. The recievers simply aren't that good. The expectation that Morgan would set the world on fire was based on pure speculation (I think he will be good--just not yet); Bruce dropped a few that could've really helped us; and we aren't targeting the TEs as much as expected.

3. The O-Line has to protect for anythink to work. They are still having some problems
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Shaun Hill or Jimmy Raye:


2008 - WK-17 to Morgan

2008 - WK-17 to Bajema

2008 - WK-12 to Vernon Davis


YOU STOP that ...you stop that RIGHT NOW!.... your bias for Hill is so obvious it is not even funny....... you with your facts and your videos!!! you stop that right now!!!!!!
Originally posted by ajsjohnson:
It's both. A couple things are happening:
1. Hill has limited ability, but is great at managing a game, avoiding mistakes and let's face it--he is a gamer

2. The recievers simply aren't that good. The expectation that Morgan would set the world on fire was based on pure speculation (I think he will be good--just not yet); Bruce dropped a few that could've really helped us; and we aren't targeting the TEs as much as expected.

3. The O-Line has to protect for anythink to work. They are still having some problems

I would add one more. Hill hasn't fully picked up Raye's offense. Singletary eluded to this yesterday after the game in his presser. The passing game will improve as they all more comfortable with the passing offense. I have no reason not to believe Mike Singletary. If it's Nolan saying it I wouldn't be so sure.
It's the game plan, just like running backs, wide receivers need touches to stay focused and make plays. My one concern for this team is the old Bill Walsh axiom, "Wining teams run the football, but running teams aren't necessarily winners"

Meaning that winning teams run well in the second half to protect a lead, rather than trying to build a lead with the run.

I hope that when Jones gets well and Raye finds a comfort level with Hill and our receiving core that he "opens up" the passing game a little.
So is it Hill or out WRs..... nope neither!
Right now, Hill's main goal is to throw it passed the 1st down marker and it doesn't matter if it's 40 yards down field, 13 yards, or 4 yards. He's doing a damn good job of moving the chains.

That's what he does.
Our passing game came through in week 1. Running game dominated week 2. It will be scary as hell when the star allign and both offensive aspects are meshing. Give this offense some time to establish itself. Until then we have our dominating defense.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Right now, Hill's main goal is to throw it passed the 1st down marker and it doesn't matter if it's 40 yards down field, 13 yards, or 4 yards. He's doing a damn good job of moving the chains.

That's what he does.

You sir a wise man, I must agree and yield to your superior Kung Fu
It appers to me, that the only WR who Hill consistanly looks for is Bruce. It's like everyone else and Hill simply are not on the same page. If a defense took away Bruce, I wonder if the limited pass game that we do have, would disappear & fail altogether.

Sure Vernon would get some.... but it is concerning that Hill simply won't or can't find other WR's in a game.

I know for a FACT Morgan has been open downfield, but Hill did not go his way.

You got to wonder just a little bit what Craptree thinks of 9ers passing game after 2 games.

By the way.... I am THRILLED the 9ers are going after the Jets and any other team the feel may have tampered with Crabtree. Like we all knew, where there ius smoke, normally there is indeed fire. Keep talking Deion!