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So... is it Hill or is it our W.R.'s?

The Passing game will come around, but I'm psyched that we are winning and playing tough defense, bring on the Vikings
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by Twister68:
Yes, let's all start whining. Like we would be 3-0 after 2 games if we had more passing yards and catches.

this.



We're having a discussion, on a discussion forum, about whether the reason our WR's haven't produced is the QB's fault or the WR's fault. If every thread was "2-0 WOO HOO" this would be a very boring place. This is a valid discussion.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
It's Hill. He almost admitted as much yesterday after the game that he was playing it safe and not do too much on some of the third down plays.

Yes but that is how he's COACHED now...to be a "game manager" which is polar opposite of Martz's system last year that allowed him to cut loose. I think there needs to be a balance there b/c Hill clearly IS capable of operating a pass-happy offense. I'm worried that we've instilled a "play not to lose" mentality with he and our entire offense and that resulted in a game yesterday - that Seahawk game could have been over in the 2nd Q but we let them hang around.

Mike Singlertary can't harp on "finishing better" when the play-calling is obviously very conservative at the same time. At home, you play to win...on the road, alright, it's OK to play a little more conservative to help take the crowd out of the game.
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by Twister68:
Yes, let's all start whining. Like we would be 3-0 after 2 games if we had more passing yards and catches.

this.



We're having a discussion, on a discussion forum, about whether the reason our WR's haven't produced is the QB's fault or the WR's fault. If every thread was "2-0 WOO HOO" this would be a very boring place. This is a valid discussion.

never said it wasn't.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
hill. He can make the short throws. Hitting a receiver in stride, 30 yards down the field is another story.

this, and i know people are gonna say well he hit Brucs on the 50 yrad pass in stride in week 1 which is true, Hill can deliver that pass every once in a while but he is not consistent with it, Hills game is the short to mid passing game, which is usually where the RBs and TEs routes go.

So i dont see our WRs having big numbers with Hill as our QB. Im not saying for us to get rid of Hill and start Alex or anything like that, just dont expect big numbers from our WRs with Hill as our QB.

What we can expect with Hill though is managing the game, not making costly turnovers and most importantly giving us a chance to win the game, which he has shown he can do, he is 9-3 after all.

Lets go out and beat the Vikings

Let's say Hill grasps onto this job with iron clamps with solid play in a game and clutch play when needed. Then it will be time to rethink what type of receiver we want. We would want the TO type who is very powerful after the catch. Basically, a Bill Walsh prototype.

I agree, and thats why i want us to sign Crabtree i think he is in the same mold as TO or a Boldin. When Bruce leaves after this year, i would hope that we would go after those type of WRs, maybe keep a couple of speedy WRs, Morgan and Jones and have the powerful ones like Crabtree and whoever we may bring in who knows maybe even TO
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
hill. He can make the short throws. Hitting a receiver in stride, 30 yards down the field is another story.

this, and i know people are gonna say well he hit Brucs on the 50 yrad pass in stride in week 1 which is true, Hill can deliver that pass every once in a while but he is not consistent with it, Hills game is the short to mid passing game, which is usually where the RBs and TEs routes go.

So i dont see our WRs having big numbers with Hill as our QB. Im not saying for us to get rid of Hill and start Alex or anything like that, just dont expect big numbers from our WRs with Hill as our QB.

What we can expect with Hill though is managing the game, not making costly turnovers and most importantly giving us a chance to win the game, which he has shown he can do, he is 9-3 after all.

Lets go out and beat the Vikings

I'm not sure about this? All last year in Martz's system, even when it was dialed down a bit, Hill always made those throws. Yes, he had the bomb to Bruce but he also had many passes over 15 yards including in the endzone that were dropped including a 30 yarder yesterday! All QB's need to get into a rhythm and the type of offense we run is hard b/c it's doesn't offer up a lot of consistent opportunities for Hill to get into that rhythm, get in a groove and really start pinpointing those passes beyond 15 yards. You can't ask a guy to have all his passes (sparingly) under 15 yards and then once or twice a game expect him to hit a huge gain. ALL QB's would struggle with that (and they do) - then again, not many teams run an offense as conservative as ours so it's harder to compare.
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Easily, it's Hill. He's no different than a Jeff Garcia type. They LOVE the 15 and under throws and the middle of the field. They love looking for the crossing routes. Garcia always had and Hill always will have difficulty finding the WRs. Hill even admitted that he had a couple of chances but did not make the throw considering the situation of the game and where they were at.

Like Steve Young said, "That's not good QBing, that's great QBing."

However, take a look at his 3rd down conversions on that long drive: dude came through!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are so blatantly biased towards Hill it's not even funny. Now, you're comparing him to a very good quarterback in Garcia? Please. Hill can't make half the throws Garcia could.

As to the original question, it was entirely on Hill. He had receivers open deep, but wouldn't go there.

That's what I said, not throwing to open receivers is entirely on Hill. How is that blatantly biased. And when Garcia was here, we were steaming that we had no deep passing game where Garica had difficulty throwing to his receivers.

Double Hill's stats from last year and tell me that he isn't capable of being a "Garcia Type".

I'm not saying he's Garcia, but he is a Garcia "type" in certain aspects.
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by Twister68:
Yes, let's all start whining. Like we would be 3-0 after 2 games if we had more passing yards and catches.

this.



We're having a discussion, on a discussion forum, about whether the reason our WR's haven't produced is the QB's fault or the WR's fault. If every thread was "2-0 WOO HOO" this would be a very boring place. This is a valid discussion.

never said it wasn't.

sorry, should of quoted the other dude. I saw ur cunninlyngus smiley.
A few different factors I think. On the one deep ball on the sidelines, it was underthrown, and Bruce had to bat it away. That may have affected Hill's confidence in trying that again. Then we had receivers dropping passes that sihould have been caught. And lastly, you have the playcalling in the game that was very conservative (with the exception of a few WTF stupid wacky play calls).

They definately need more work with Hill & the receivers to get better. That part of the game was frustrating to watch yesterday.
[ Edited by djfullshred on Sep 21, 2009 at 9:32 AM ]
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,517
Shaun Hill or Jimmy Raye:


2008 - WK-17 to Morgan

2008 - WK-17 to Bajema

2008 - WK-12 to Vernon Davis
every one wrs/qbs/tes/rbs .....are knee deep in to a new system.


they are not in mid-season form yet....let alone have a "history" or chemisty with each other yet.

give it time....
Maybe if our WR's wouldn't drop the ball...Bruce had 2 drops yesterday, VD had one, Walker had another drop, Coffee had a drop, and I believe Gore or Norris had a drop too.

We don't throw the ball the much, and it's not like Hill throws a laser, those were all catch able balls.
  • rum53
  • Veteran
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Singletary is playing conservative game plans that have so far led to two wins. The niners are gaining momentum and confidence in their play. I fully expect to see the offensive game plan to open up as we continue our success. Look for more passes down the field this upcoming weekend, especially off the play action.
I would actually say that it is Singletary. Singletary does not want the Niners' QB (whoever it is) to make mistakes. So, Hill is always "playing it safe" because there is a much higher chance of mistakes when airing it out. This is the exact reason why Martz was let go. Martz wanted his QB to have 300yds passing and 2-3TDs per game. Singletary doesn't care about that. He just wants mistake-free football and wins.

So...it isn't the QB and it isn't the WR...it's the coaching philosophy. Hill wants to remain the starter...so he is going to do what makes his coach happy.
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by Twister68:
Yes, let's all start whining. Like we would be 3-0 after 2 games if we had more passing yards and catches.

this.



We're having a discussion, on a discussion forum, about whether the reason our WR's haven't produced is the QB's fault or the WR's fault. If every thread was "2-0 WOO HOO" this would be a very boring place. This is a valid discussion.

never said it wasn't.

sorry, should of quoted the other dude. I saw ur cunninlyngus smiley.

is that what that smiley means? That explains all those strange phone calls I've been getting...
















I think Twister has a point. that said, I think the lack of passing game production has a lot to do with scheme and situational playcalling. Until we see a concerted and sustained attempt to pass the ball downfield, I think it'll be hard to really assess our ability to do so.