There are 407 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Why does Shaun Hill ALWAYS suck in the 3rd quarter?

Originally posted by djfullshred:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
I mean yeah Cool does ride hill's nuts pretty hard, but thats who he backs. cant fault a brotha for that.

With hill i just say this, why does shaun suck until the 4th quarter. But another statment then a question. Hill needs to score TD's in the first 3 quarters, because trust me when i say teams will notice that he may play strong in the 4th quarter and when teams get wind of this there goes our season.

I wanna see hill manage and SCORE, in the game. I aint gonna diss him yet, because he did win the first game for us. But most teams wont wait around like the Cards did.

Because Cool liking or not, hill was the king of 3 and outs on Sunday. and wait till we play a team that capitalizes on turnovers, and 3 and outs, and they'll eat us up. So i hope he improves after all this talk about seattle, cause in a way, hill's the same as he said about them, can make some good plays, but he is who we thought he was.

Go niners, and i cant wait till sunday.

Wow, now that's just ignorant. Here's the run-down...

13 O possessions.

8 3-&-outs (Doesn't look good in the stat book; but lets look at the facts)

1st 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 15 Hill completes for 13. (not a first down)
2nd 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 13 Hill completes for 12. (not a first down)
3rd 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 20 AZ crushes the pocket and forces a fumble.(held onto the ball too long)
4th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 6 Incompletion. Now that's on Hill! (you got it)
5th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 9 and a run is called. (maybe not his fault but read below)
6th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 9 and Hill gets sacked. (held on the ball too long)

Were running out the clock at this time...
7th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 7 and a run is called. (maybe not his fault)
8th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 2 and a run is called. (maybe not his fault)

Now if you count the INC, Fumble, and Sack against Hill then 3 of the 8 were his fault. I don't blame the guy for completing passes on 3rd and long or for the OC calling run plays...

Looking at the 13 posessions we had on O, I don't know how anyone can call Hill "the king of 3 and outs" when only 3 are his fault...

Brotha D, wuz goin on, it's been a while. Nice try, but i do wanna thank you for actually proving my point. Now i would have made comments by each down, so make sure u read the parenthesis.

Now on the plays of 3 and whatever, his job is to get a first down. That wasnt achieved so that does fall on the qb. It was a passing play called not run. On the running plays, you cant knock them because i also ask you, we didnt have one drive that was all run. The run is supposed to be the focus, but the passes completed to keep opposing defenses off their game.

When he does get a chance to throw, he has to make the most of the opportunity. if it gets to third down, or 4th where we have to kick then honestly at least one of those downs was a passing play that got nothing or not much.

Bomb to bruce was good, but for the rest of the game, i dont know what you were watching, but he threw behind, over, and too short to receivers. Almosst all his passes where within 15 yards. Do you realize that a reason VD didnt have over 50 yards, and a ton of catches, is probably because defenses know that Davis will be hills no.1 target. and if you shut him down then u create desperation.

ON that drive that he scored, he was efficient for what he does best, short, quick accurate throws within 15 yards, and he drove us to a TD. But why cant he do it in quarter 1, 2, and 3.

I aint knocking hill cause he got a win, but at the same time i say lets be realistic, on what actually went down. not what you do or dont want to see.

OK, let's be realistic. Hill needs to be sharper for sure. No doubt about it. But king of 3 & outs? That is not realistic either bro.

My realistic opinion is the guy played above average football. Not crappy football. Not great football. But pretty decent in a game where there is no disagreement the O-line got completely manhandled. Now I am not making excuse because of the O-line...because there really are no excuses needed for a QB coming off a win with an 89 QB rating. I am not a stats tell the whole story kind of guy, but for sure they tell part of the story.

I think most people just get annoyed by the double-standards when it comes to evaluating the stats.

Things like 3 and outs -- where people blabbed ignorantly about Alex saying he was at fault regardless of the play-call are using the same stats to defend Hill. I see this, but I often don't say anything because I'd rather not get involved in this neverending debate.

All I'm saying is for THIS particular statement or label, as the "Three and out" king.. please stop. If you actually go back and look at the stats, you'll see that Alex and Hill are virtually equal, with Hill having an arguably much better team, however.
Its better than taking it in the can any other quarter.
I still can't believe some are trying to get on Shaun Hill for 3 and outs after only one game and especially after you go dig his efficiency on third downs only to find out this game was more of an exception from him rather than a pattern.

Alex Smith had a continuous pattern of game after game of inefficiency with more 3 and outs than we can count. However, 2006 was Alex's second year with a dominant running game, so I am ending his name in this post right now.

Shaun Hill, in 11 starts has an average QB rating of 90.4 and there is evidence in almost all of those games of our passing game moving the chains with him behind Center. Guess what, Shaun Hill had a QB rating of 89.3 in this last game. Yes, it was mainly due to that one drive but there is a reason why that one drive held so much weight, the sample size prior to that was very small.

I can't believe people are saying he needs to get TDs. I'm sorry but a 50 yard completion to set up a running play for the score wasn't good enough? I mean, THAT was the QB Shaun Hill throwing that ball, wasn't it. You still discount his 13 TDs to 8 INTs last year? Yes, he has some pitiful throws, but the fact is, it was a strong defensive game and Warner had even more pathetic throws.

Both teams were playing strong Defense and our QB ended up playing better than a HOFer. I don't recall the last time our QBs outplayed HOFer type QBs: oh wait, Shaun Hill did against Favre last year too.

Next time, when you want to gripe about 3 and outs, consider the play calling, whether or not our running game is getting a push, and consider Hill's play in 11 games rather than using 3 quarters as a sample size to define Shaun Hill as a starter. I believe he has more games for you to look at.

In 8 games, 8 GAMES, the man threw for 2000 yards. 8 GAMES!! Yeah, and he can't move the ball. Tell that to Big Ben against ARI, Delhomme and whoever else ARI defense played in the playoffs.
[ Edited by Joecool on Sep 18, 2009 at 8:01 AM ]
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
I mean yeah Cool does ride hill's nuts pretty hard, but thats who he backs. cant fault a brotha for that.

With hill i just say this, why does shaun suck until the 4th quarter. But another statment then a question. Hill needs to score TD's in the first 3 quarters, because trust me when i say teams will notice that he may play strong in the 4th quarter and when teams get wind of this there goes our season.

I wanna see hill manage and SCORE, in the game. I aint gonna diss him yet, because he did win the first game for us. But most teams wont wait around like the Cards did.

Because Cool liking or not, hill was the king of 3 and outs on Sunday. and wait till we play a team that capitalizes on turnovers, and 3 and outs, and they'll eat us up. So i hope he improves after all this talk about seattle, cause in a way, hill's the same as he said about them, can make some good plays, but he is who we thought he was.

Go niners, and i cant wait till sunday.

Wow, now that's just ignorant. Here's the run-down...

13 O possessions.

8 3-&-outs (Doesn't look good in the stat book; but lets look at the facts)

1st 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 15 Hill completes for 13. (not a first down)
2nd 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 13 Hill completes for 12. (not a first down)
3rd 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 20 AZ crushes the pocket and forces a fumble.(held onto the ball too long)
4th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 6 Incompletion. Now that's on Hill! (you got it)
5th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 9 and a run is called. (maybe not his fault but read below)
6th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 9 and Hill gets sacked. (held on the ball too long)

Were running out the clock at this time...
7th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 7 and a run is called. (maybe not his fault)
8th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 2 and a run is called. (maybe not his fault)

Now if you count the INC, Fumble, and Sack against Hill then 3 of the 8 were his fault. I don't blame the guy for completing passes on 3rd and long or for the OC calling run plays...

Looking at the 13 posessions we had on O, I don't know how anyone can call Hill "the king of 3 and outs" when only 3 are his fault...

Brotha D, wuz goin on, it's been a while. Nice try, but i do wanna thank you for actually proving my point. Now i would have made comments by each down, so make sure u read the parenthesis.

Now on the plays of 3 and whatever, his job is to get a first down. That wasnt achieved so that does fall on the qb. It was a passing play called not run. On the running plays, you cant knock them because i also ask you, we didnt have one drive that was all run. The run is supposed to be the focus, but the passes completed to keep opposing defenses off their game.

When he does get a chance to throw, he has to make the most of the opportunity. if it gets to third down, or 4th where we have to kick then honestly at least one of those downs was a passing play that got nothing or not much.

Bomb to bruce was good, but for the rest of the game, i dont know what you were watching, but he threw behind, over, and too short to receivers. Almosst all his passes where within 15 yards. Do you realize that a reason VD didnt have over 50 yards, and a ton of catches, is probably because defenses know that Davis will be hills no.1 target. and if you shut him down then u create desperation.

ON that drive that he scored, he was efficient for what he does best, short, quick accurate throws within 15 yards, and he drove us to a TD. But why cant he do it in quarter 1, 2, and 3.

I aint knocking hill cause he got a win, but at the same time i say lets be realistic, on what actually went down. not what you do or dont want to see.

You come in here and type a lot of words but don't look up or verify any of your facts. You say we didn't have a single drive that was all runs; but, we actually had 3... You say things like "held on to the ball too long" when he was sacked in less than 3 seconds after the balls was snapped. Or another one, it's the QB's job to get the first down, regardless of distance or play call... So let me get this right, It's Hills job to overcome 3rd and 20 and the ball must be out of his hands in less than 3 seconds regardless of what play is sent in? Where do you come up with this crap?

As for the rest of your rant, when did I ever say any of that? What is this, If you cant back up your week ass argument, you're going to try and force another one onto me that I never made?

I never said the guy is the second coming of Joe or anything... I'm saying you are clearly wrong about him being the king of 3&outs... As I said above only 3 of those 8 would I put on Hill's shoulders. Anyone trying to blame Hill for more then that is just plain delusional.
[ Edited by D_Niner on Sep 18, 2009 at 8:47 AM ]
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
I mean yeah Cool does ride hill's nuts pretty hard, but thats who he backs. cant fault a brotha for that.

With hill i just say this, why does shaun suck until the 4th quarter. But another statment then a question. Hill needs to score TD's in the first 3 quarters, because trust me when i say teams will notice that he may play strong in the 4th quarter and when teams get wind of this there goes our season.

I wanna see hill manage and SCORE, in the game. I aint gonna diss him yet, because he did win the first game for us. But most teams wont wait around like the Cards did.

Because Cool liking or not, hill was the king of 3 and outs on Sunday. and wait till we play a team that capitalizes on turnovers, and 3 and outs, and they'll eat us up. So i hope he improves after all this talk about seattle, cause in a way, hill's the same as he said about them, can make some good plays, but he is who we thought he was.

Go niners, and i cant wait till sunday.

Wow, now that's just ignorant. Here's the run-down...

13 O possessions.

8 3-&-outs (Doesn't look good in the stat book; but lets look at the facts)

1st 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 15 Hill completes for 13. (not a first down)
2nd 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 13 Hill completes for 12. (not a first down)
3rd 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 20 AZ crushes the pocket and forces a fumble.(held onto the ball too long)
4th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 6 Incompletion. Now that's on Hill! (you got it)
5th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 9 and a run is called. (maybe not his fault but read below)
6th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 9 and Hill gets sacked. (held on the ball too long)

Were running out the clock at this time...
7th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 7 and a run is called. (maybe not his fault)
8th 3-&-Out: Its 3rd and 2 and a run is called. (maybe not his fault)

Now if you count the INC, Fumble, and Sack against Hill then 3 of the 8 were his fault. I don't blame the guy for completing passes on 3rd and long or for the OC calling run plays...

Looking at the 13 posessions we had on O, I don't know how anyone can call Hill "the king of 3 and outs" when only 3 are his fault...

Brotha D, wuz goin on, it's been a while. Nice try, but i do wanna thank you for actually proving my point. Now i would have made comments by each down, so make sure u read the parenthesis.

Now on the plays of 3 and whatever, his job is to get a first down. That wasnt achieved so that does fall on the qb. It was a passing play called not run. On the running plays, you cant knock them because i also ask you, we didnt have one drive that was all run. The run is supposed to be the focus, but the passes completed to keep opposing defenses off their game.

When he does get a chance to throw, he has to make the most of the opportunity. if it gets to third down, or 4th where we have to kick then honestly at least one of those downs was a passing play that got nothing or not much.

Bomb to bruce was good, but for the rest of the game, i dont know what you were watching, but he threw behind, over, and too short to receivers. Almosst all his passes where within 15 yards. Do you realize that a reason VD didnt have over 50 yards, and a ton of catches, is probably because defenses know that Davis will be hills no.1 target. and if you shut him down then u create desperation.

ON that drive that he scored, he was efficient for what he does best, short, quick accurate throws within 15 yards, and he drove us to a TD. But why cant he do it in quarter 1, 2, and 3.

I aint knocking hill cause he got a win, but at the same time i say lets be realistic, on what actually went down. not what you do or dont want to see.

OK, let's be realistic. Hill needs to be sharper for sure. No doubt about it. But king of 3 & outs? That is not realistic either bro.

My realistic opinion is the guy played above average football. Not crappy football. Not great football. But pretty decent in a game where there is no disagreement the O-line got completely manhandled. Now I am not making excuse because of the O-line...because there really are no excuses needed for a QB coming off a win with an 89 QB rating. I am not a stats tell the whole story kind of guy, but for sure they tell part of the story.

I think most people just get annoyed by the double-standards when it comes to evaluating the stats.

Things like 3 and outs -- where people blabbed ignorantly about Alex saying he was at fault regardless of the play-call are using the same stats to defend Hill. I see this, but I often don't say anything because I'd rather not get involved in this neverending debate.

All I'm saying is for THIS particular statement or label, as the "Three and out" king.. please stop. If you actually go back and look at the stats, you'll see that Alex and Hill are virtually equal, with Hill having an arguably much better team, however.

Thanks on the clock, that’s all im saying. Except I will get into that debate. D-niner, no one put any words in your mouth. That’s your opinion that he was only responsible for 3 of those plays. Yes it may be exaggerated that he is the king of 3 and outs however, im not even talking about smith, but some of you crucified him for the same reasons your making excuses for hill. Hill won the game as I said no doubt, but the second coming of Joe, did you see that you’re the only one that made that crazy ass comparison. I wouldn’t even put them in the same sentence.

And I feel, which I am entitled too, that much of it was on hills shoulders. Re-watch the game, and the announcers themselves said over and over again, Hill looks rattled. That pass was over his head cause hill got nervous, he seems a little shaken. But im making this up right. Your OPINION is that Hill is only responsible for a few of those plays, while I say he is responsible for more than that.

I look at both sides, the ways he sucked and the ways that he excelled, however you just look at the stats, and come to your own conclusions that this aint on him and that aint on him. Both matts even said they got slack for giving him a B from fans, so maybe find that article and see, I aint the only one that feels this way. Maybe just one of the few to speak reality. I just say if he does ok, then just keep it ok. Which his best time was the 4th quarter. Maybe your even confused about the fact that the title of this thread is why does he suck in the 3rd quarter. I just said besides that winning drive, he sucked for most of the game. It’s my opinion, just like yours soo. But as I said nice way to play the putting words in your mouth card.

And i will say anyone that thinks he did better than just ok is delusional honestly.
[ Edited by Jersey9er on Sep 18, 2009 at 9:14 AM ]
  • Squirrel
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by Joecool:
I still can't believe some are trying to get on Shaun Hill for 3 and outs after only one game and especially after you go dig his efficiency on third downs only to find out this game was more of an exception from him rather than a pattern.

Alex Smith had a continuous pattern of game after game of inefficiency with more 3 and outs than we can count. However, 2006 was Alex's second year with a dominant running game, so I am ending his name in this post right now.

Shaun Hill, in 11 starts has an average QB rating of 90.4 and there is evidence in almost all of those games of our passing game moving the chains with him behind Center. Guess what, Shaun Hill had a QB rating of 89.3 in this last game. Yes, it was mainly due to that one drive but there is a reason why that one drive held so much weight, the sample size prior to that was very small.

I can't believe people are saying he needs to get TDs. I'm sorry but a 50 yard completion to set up a running play for the score wasn't good enough? I mean, THAT was the QB Shaun Hill throwing that ball, wasn't it. You still discount his 13 TDs to 8 INTs last year? Yes, he has some pitiful throws, but the fact is, it was a strong defensive game and Warner had even more pathetic throws.

Both teams were playing strong Defense and our QB ended up playing better than a HOFer. I don't recall the last time our QBs outplayed HOFer type QBs: oh wait, Shaun Hill did against Favre last year too.

Next time, when you want to gripe about 3 and outs, consider the play calling, whether or not our running game is getting a push, and consider Hill's play in 11 games rather than using 3 quarters as a sample size to define Shaun Hill as a starter. I believe he has more games for you to look at.

In 8 games, 8 GAMES, the man threw for 2000 yards. 8 GAMES!! Yeah, and he can't move the ball. Tell that to Big Ben against ARI, Delhomme and whoever else ARI defense played in the playoffs.


But play calling doesn't matter with Smith?

You have a lot of double standards. You're not willing to analyze Smith based on the same criteria you analyze Hill. That has been my point with you all along. If you were to gauge them both under the same microscope, would you find the same results? Probably not.

Fact is: Neither Hill nor Smith are great quarterbacks. Serviceable? Yes. But, neither is the future of the franchise. Once you take off your rose-colored glasses and look at Hill, I bet you'll see that.
He needs to stop eating Cheetos during the half.
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I still can't believe some are trying to get on Shaun Hill for 3 and outs after only one game and especially after you go dig his efficiency on third downs only to find out this game was more of an exception from him rather than a pattern.

Alex Smith had a continuous pattern of game after game of inefficiency with more 3 and outs than we can count. However, 2006 was Alex's second year with a dominant running game, so I am ending his name in this post right now.

Shaun Hill, in 11 starts has an average QB rating of 90.4 and there is evidence in almost all of those games of our passing game moving the chains with him behind Center. Guess what, Shaun Hill had a QB rating of 89.3 in this last game. Yes, it was mainly due to that one drive but there is a reason why that one drive held so much weight, the sample size prior to that was very small.

I can't believe people are saying he needs to get TDs. I'm sorry but a 50 yard completion to set up a running play for the score wasn't good enough? I mean, THAT was the QB Shaun Hill throwing that ball, wasn't it. You still discount his 13 TDs to 8 INTs last year? Yes, he has some pitiful throws, but the fact is, it was a strong defensive game and Warner had even more pathetic throws.

Both teams were playing strong Defense and our QB ended up playing better than a HOFer. I don't recall the last time our QBs outplayed HOFer type QBs: oh wait, Shaun Hill did against Favre last year too.

Next time, when you want to gripe about 3 and outs, consider the play calling, whether or not our running game is getting a push, and consider Hill's play in 11 games rather than using 3 quarters as a sample size to define Shaun Hill as a starter. I believe he has more games for you to look at.

In 8 games, 8 GAMES, the man threw for 2000 yards. 8 GAMES!! Yeah, and he can't move the ball. Tell that to Big Ben against ARI, Delhomme and whoever else ARI defense played in the playoffs.


But play calling doesn't matter with Smith?

You have a lot of double standards. You're not willing to analyze Smith based on the same criteria you analyze Hill. That has been my point with you all along. If you were to gauge them both under the same microscope, would you find the same results? Probably not.

Fact is: Neither Hill nor Smith are great quarterbacks. Serviceable? Yes. But, neither is the future of the franchise. Once you take off your rose-colored glasses and look at Hill, I bet you'll see that.

I am saying to give it a larger sample size with this type of play calling. If Hill keeps having games like this, then him not being able to convert 3rd downs would be correct. Up to this point, he has been playing very well. The guy threw for over 200 yards in a game that was a defensive battle. He played well in week 1.
Originally posted by Jersey9er:


Thanks on the clock, that’s all im saying. Except I will get into that debate. D-niner, no one put any words in your mouth. That’s your opinion that he was only responsible for 3 of those plays. Yes it may be exaggerated that he is the king of 3 and outs however, im not even talking about smith, but some of you crucified him for the same reasons your making excuses for hill. Hill won the game as I said no doubt, but the second coming of Joe, did you see that you’re the only one that made that crazy ass comparison. I wouldn’t even put them in the same sentence.

And I feel, which I am entitled too, that much of it was on hills shoulders. Re-watch the game, and the announcers themselves said over and over again, Hill looks rattled. That pass was over his head cause hill got nervous, he seems a little shaken. But im making this up right. Your OPINION is that Hill is only responsible for a few of those plays, while I say he is responsible for more than that.

I look at both sides, the ways he sucked and the ways that he excelled, however you just look at the stats, and come to your own conclusions that this aint on him and that aint on him. Both matts even said they got slack for giving him a B from fans, so maybe find that article and see, I aint the only one that feels this way. Maybe just one of the few to speak reality. I just say if he does ok, then just keep it ok. Which his best time was the 4th quarter. Maybe your even confused about the fact that the title of this thread is why does he suck in the 3rd quarter. I just said besides that winning drive, he sucked for most of the game. It’s my opinion, just like yours soo. But as I said nice way to play the putting words in your mouth card.

And i will say anyone that thinks he did better than just ok is delusional honestly.

Ok, I underlined areas that you are trying to put words in my mouth in the same post that says you are not putting words in my mouth...

I never mentioned Smith. As a matter of fact, this thread has nothing to do with Smith. It's all about Shaun, so don't come in here like I said this or that about Smith.

I've never disagreed that some of his passes were off target or that Hill was shaken. I've even said that 3 of those 3rd down plays were his fault. You stating "But im making this up right" is a sad attempt to force me into an argument that I never made. As a matter of fact, I would have only given Hill a C on his performance...

Stating that I just look at stats insinuates that I have not watched the games or that my analysis is solely based off of statistics. Do I need to remind you that you're the one that didn't even know that we had 3 different series where all we did was run the ball (Zero pass attempts). I believe you stated earlier that we didn't even have one series like this... And you even tried to pin those 3&outs on Hill...

So as you said "nice way to play the putting words in your mouth card", I just want to point out that it's your card; I'm just showing it to you...


And I'll spell out my Joe comment, cause it looks like it went way over your head. You are posting as if I thought Hill is all that (like Joe). In reality, I think he is ok; but, he is the best QB we have on our roster right now. So my comment meant that he is not all that great and is not a good choice for our QB of the future (basically he is a stop-gap until we get someone better).
[ Edited by D_Niner on Sep 18, 2009 at 10:09 AM ]
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:

I think most people just get annoyed by the double-standards when it comes to evaluating the stats.

Things like 3 and outs -- where people blabbed ignorantly about Alex saying he was at fault regardless of the play-call are using the same stats to defend Hill. I see this, but I often don't say anything because I'd rather not get involved in this neverending debate.

All I'm saying is for THIS particular statement or label, as the "Three and out" king.. please stop. If you actually go back and look at the stats, you'll see that Alex and Hill are virtually equal, with Hill having an arguably much better team, however.

Thanks on the clock, that’s all im saying.

Wait a sec! You called Hill a "3 and out" king. OTC (being a Smith homer) took it for Smith, and asked for this to stop. Then you thank him and say that's all you're saying?

What kind of logic is this?