Crabtree Discussion Thread

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
lets say he just signs at what the niners wanna pay him because its the money smart thing to do. Do you really think he's gonna give us 100% on the field or will he ALWAYS have a chip on his shoulder because of this little ongoing situation?

I think the dude is gonna be a problem. He just seems like he is only in it for the money. Once he gets paid some big guaranteed dollars he may just lose all desire to even play.

Very true. When you read about how curry couldn't stand being away from the game. Or Wells driving over night so he wouldn't miss another practice. I wonder how much he really loves this game if he is willing to sit out a year.

Originally posted by 415fan:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
I like turtles.

I love lamp

I love carpet...

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
That is another poor argument. Crabtree does have leverage, as the Niners cannot force him to put on a uniform. The time I see Shaun Hill walking behind Crabtree with a gun pointed to his head is the time when the statement you made is accurate.

The lesson learned will not be the Niners are tough guys, and won't crack. It is that they lost their first rounder in a contract dispute.

You are choosing to only see things through one side of the lens. Try looking from another angle.

What leverage does he have? He loses a year of football and will likely get less money next year. SF loses a first round pick, or it could be downgraded to a second or third round pick. Big f**kin' deal.

Give me another angle from which to look at this situation. I've looked at this from Crabtree's angle. Not to get all biblical, but all I see is greed and pride.

edit: And so far, all you've done is tell me I'm making poor arguments without backing it up. You haven't made a decent argument yet (that I've seen).

Also, I really do want to know your opinion on what Crabtree could be traded for in March.

[ Edited by jame-gumb on Sep 10, 2009 at 13:46:54 ]

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by jame-gumb:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
When you clearly feel you are the best receiver, and 6 billion people agree with you, to receive more than $10 million less in compensation has to be a bitter pill to swallow, one that he is not willing to accept at this time, if ever.

If he won't sign for less than DHB, he'd better start working on his resume. What makes him think he'll earn MORE money after a year away from football and this contract dispute that's making him look like an idiot?

Once again, I think there is more than dollar signs out there for him. I believe it is a matter of pride. I could be wrong on this thought, but I believe Crabtree's cousin opened the window into his soul. He truly is disgusted that DHB can make that huge salary when he is half the talent.

That very well could be the case. We all know the kid doesn't have his head screwed on straight, he's pretty much f**king himself over at this point. That kind of lets you know he is capable if cutting off his nose to spite his face over something as immature as letting the emotion of envy rule the day.

Come to think of it. Didn't he start crying at one point already? He could very well be a sensitive emotional wreck type of guy...unable to control his emotions?

How can you fairly and accurately make the statement that "the kid doesn't have his head screwed on straight". Nobody knows whether this is true or false, and it only weakens your argument to make a character assassination.

I have attempted to help those who support Niners' management fair and reasonable arguments. When fans turn to character assassinations, it shows a real weakness to their argument.

Just state the facts, and leave opinion out. Nobody knows what this kid is like.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by jame-gumb:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think the argument of "the Niners' management will look weak and fragile, and will be taken advantage in future draft" is one of the weaker arguments on the side of management. History does not show this to be true.

The best argument is that Crabtree has no leverage.

If SF refuses to give in and trades him or loses his rights, though, they will show that they will 100 percent not pay anyone over slot. This WILL discourage future draft picks from holding out. I don't think anyone thinks that rookies will start walking all over SF's management if they cave and sign Crabtree.

That is another poor argument. Crabtree does have leverage, as the Niners cannot force him to put on a uniform. The time I see Shaun Hill walking behind Crabtree with a gun pointed to his head is the time when the statement you made is accurate.

The lesson learned will not be the Niners are tough guys, and won't crack. It is that they lost their first rounder in a contract dispute.

You are choosing to only see things through one side of the lens. Try looking from another angle.

Losing or wasting a 1st round pick is a recipe for disaster.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by jame-gumb:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think the argument of "the Niners' management will look weak and fragile, and will be taken advantage in future draft" is one of the weaker arguments on the side of management. History does not show this to be true.

The best argument is that Crabtree has no leverage.

If SF refuses to give in and trades him or loses his rights, though, they will show that they will 100 percent not pay anyone over slot. This WILL discourage future draft picks from holding out. I don't think anyone thinks that rookies will start walking all over SF's management if they cave and sign Crabtree.

That is another poor argument. Crabtree does have leverage, as the Niners cannot force him to put on a uniform. The time I see Shaun Hill walking behind Crabtree with a gun pointed to his head is the time when the statement you made is accurate.

The lesson learned will not be the Niners are tough guys, and won't crack. It is that they lost their first rounder in a contract dispute.

You are choosing to only see things through one side of the lens. Try looking from another angle.

Giving in to his demand doesn't not affect future draft picks. Next years class will have to deal with the knowledge that there might be a lock out in 2011, so they can not use the "sitting out the season" threat. There should be a new CBA after that which will probably included a rookie pay scale. There is more to this dispute then any of us know.

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
This is going to be an epic fail for the front office.....I feel like the niners are the new Bengals.....pay him the damn money and let's ball....we've been waiting for a true #1 since Owens left.....these guys don't grow on trees.

And please stop comparing him to Owens...because it's not even close. He's a good kid getting bad advice...it has nothing to do with his attitude.

You clearly dont know what your talking about.

You get pushed around by one 1st round rookie, you will get pushed around by all of them.

Can you support your baseless claim ?

You are plowing the sea, my friend. Character assassinations and baseless claims have replaced any form of persuasive debate or intellectual insight.

Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Losing or wasting a 1st round pick is a recipe for disaster.

Crabtree has more to lose in this situation.

Originally posted by susweel:
Im also starting to think that the 49ers dont REALLY want him anymore. They are starting to realize that drafting him was a mistake.

By this time, of course they feel that drafting him was a mistake. Wouldn't anybody feel differently? He still was a value, great value pick. The best thing that can happen for us now is to be successful on the field without him. In addition, there seems to be a consensus out in NFL land that Crabtree is doing more harm than good regardless of talent just to get that pay day no matter what the cost.

I am now hoping that he doesn't sign and stays in Texas. If he wanted to be a Niner, had good character, and loved the game for game's sake, he would have taken the deal, earned his paychecks, and waited for his next large contract to make it big, you know like the rest of them.

So trade the ungrateful, greedy, me-centric WR to someone who can deal with his baggage. We don't have to. Let's get that 1st rounder back for the 2010 draft instead.

I wonder if we could really get another 1st rounder for a total of three in next year's draft. With that, we could feasibly pick up anyone of the top three WRs while still addressing other needs if we wanted to. Just gives us more options.

If he signs now, great! If he doesn't, great!

We are not pinned up against the wall. Instead, it's pin the tail on the donkey...I mean Crabtree.

Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
lets say he just signs at what the niners wanna pay him because its the money smart thing to do. Do you really think he's gonna give us 100% on the field or will he ALWAYS have a chip on his shoulder because of this little ongoing situation?

its just contract negotiations man. singletary held out from the bears twice. fitz held out last offseason during otas and stuff before az restructured his contract. boldin was mad about not getting a new deal. justin smith held out as a rookie until literally the day before their first game. jamarcus russel held out during the raiders first 2 games. philip rivers held out as a rookie for a while. if he signs he should be fine.

who cares about crab i want dez bryant!!!!!!!!!!!! hes the truth

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
This is going to be an epic fail for the front office.....I feel like the niners are the new Bengals.....pay him the damn money and let's ball....we've been waiting for a true #1 since Owens left.....these guys don't grow on trees.

And please stop comparing him to Owens...because it's not even close. He's a good kid getting bad advice...it has nothing to do with his attitude.

You clearly dont know what your talking about.

You get pushed around by one 1st round rookie, you will get pushed around by all of them.

Can you support your baseless claim ?

Has a team ever paid anyone higher then what they were slotted for ?

Yes. I posted a whole page and more from this last decade on a previous thread that has been locked. Scores of examples either in guaranteed money or total money of the contract.

Originally posted by jame-gumb:

Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Losing or wasting a 1st round pick is a recipe for disaster.

Crabtree has more to lose in this situation.

Either way the 49ers still look like buffoons for not getting their 1st round pick under contract.

[ Edited by Thorhawk on Sep 10, 2009 at 14:05:40 ]

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
This is going to be an epic fail for the front office.....I feel like the niners are the new Bengals.....pay him the damn money and let's ball....we've been waiting for a true #1 since Owens left.....these guys don't grow on trees.

And please stop comparing him to Owens...because it's not even close. He's a good kid getting bad advice...it has nothing to do with his attitude.

You clearly dont know what your talking about.

You get pushed around by one 1st round rookie, you will get pushed around by all of them.

Can you support your baseless claim ?

Has a team ever paid anyone higher then what they were slotted for ?

Cleveland and Brady Quinn.

QBs are the exception.

What positions do Barry Sanders, Darrelle Revis and Larry Fitzgerald play? There are a lot of examples of non-QB's who were paid outside the slot.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
This is going to be an epic fail for the front office.....I feel like the niners are the new Bengals.....pay him the damn money and let's ball....we've been waiting for a true #1 since Owens left.....these guys don't grow on trees.

And please stop comparing him to Owens...because it's not even close. He's a good kid getting bad advice...it has nothing to do with his attitude.

You clearly dont know what your talking about.

You get pushed around by one 1st round rookie, you will get pushed around by all of them.

Can you support your baseless claim ?

Has a team ever paid anyone higher then what they were slotted for ?

Cleveland and Brady Quinn.

QBs are the exception.

What positions do Barry Sanders, Darrelle Revis and Larry Fitzgerald play? There are a lot of examples of non-QB's who were paid outside the slot.

I guess it just proves that the niners don't think hes worth more than his slotted value.