1989 and 2009: The quick slant.

Originally posted by Izyniner:
Ahh the slant. I remember watching games in the 80's & 90's were we needed 3 to 5 yards on third down. Yelling look out here it comes you could see the defense new it was coming but could do nothing to stop it. It was mainly because Jerry and J.T. who do you double? I think we may finally have the reciever core to run this again. Who you going to double Crabs, Morgan, or Hill. I like it.

It also has a lot to do with which one of these guys can get hit on the line and still hold the route and get where he is supposed to be.

Also, not having Alex Smith stare at you for 20 seconds and throw it 2 yards above your head helps.

i think 2009 should also be the year of the bubble screen: crabtree morgan d walker and VD could all be very effective with that play and i think the oline is good at moving out to make blocks

Originally posted by jdt84_2:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
I believe the slant is ineffective against the Tampa Two.

eh yes and no. the tampa 2 is designed to take away the big play. basically you can run the quick slant all day and drive down the field, but the defense will make a big play, whether it be a sack, fumble, incomplete, or int.

Got you. So the slant can still be run, just not for 95 yards.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by jdt84_2:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
I believe the slant is ineffective against the Tampa Two.

eh yes and no. the tampa 2 is designed to take away the big play. basically you can run the quick slant all day and drive down the field, but the defense will make a big play, whether it be a sack, fumble, incomplete, or int.

Got you. So the slant can still be run, just not for 95 yards.

The Tampa Two is designed to have your D-line get the pressure, while the LB's move into the flats on obvious short passing downs. Thereby removing the threat of inside curls, slants, TE outs, while still having them in position to come up on RB screens or swing passes.

The zones change depending on down and distance, to allow ball carriers to catch the ball yet have the defense in place to make the tackle well before the first down.
Against aggressive blitzing defenses, the slant is still potentially deadly.

However, every defense has elements of this in their playbooks, which is why short horizontal passing attacks don't mesh well with power running games, because the defensive alignments to stop both are so similar. You can drop a SS into the box and either blitz him or have him drop into the flat while you blitz a LB, any LB, especially if you only need a few yards for a first down.

Originally posted by geturembedder:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by jdt84_2:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
I believe the slant is ineffective against the Tampa Two.

eh yes and no. the tampa 2 is designed to take away the big play. basically you can run the quick slant all day and drive down the field, but the defense will make a big play, whether it be a sack, fumble, incomplete, or int.

Got you. So the slant can still be run, just not for 95 yards.

The Tampa Two is designed to have your D-line get the pressure, while the LB's move into the flats on obvious short passing downs. Thereby removing the threat of inside curls, slants, TE outs, while still having them in position to come up on RB screens or swing passes.

The zones change depending on down and distance, to allow ball carriers to catch the ball yet have the defense in place to make the tackle well before the first down.
Against aggressive blitzing defenses, the slant is still potentially deadly.

However, every defense has elements of this in their playbooks, which is why short horizontal passing attacks don't mesh well with power running games, because the defensive alignments to stop both are so similar. You can drop a SS into the box and either blitz him or have him drop into the flat while you blitz a LB, any LB, especially if you only need a few yards for a first down.

Rite on the money!!

Aaaah, the old 212 Shoot... I think we can expect to see some of this. For these quick-hitting routes, it sure helps to have some zip on your passes to go with that accuracy. Any slow-duck floaters would be disastrous. Gotta squeeze that ball in their nowadays since the speed of the defense has increased. Crabtree, VD, and Morgan should definitely be reason enough to run more of these patterns... they should be able to take a short pass and break/slip a tackle for more.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Aaaah, the old 212 Shoot... I think we can expect to see some of this. For these quick-hitting routes, it sure helps to have some zip on your passes to go with that accuracy. Any slow-duck floaters would be disastrous. Gotta squeeze that ball in their nowadays since the speed of the defense has increased. Crabtree, VD, and Morgan should definitely be reason enough to run more of these patterns... they should be able to take a short pass and break/slip a tackle for more.

zip is only needed to a certain extent. minimizing the time between the read and the actual release of the ball is the most important.

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
Just finished watching America's Game DVD on the 1989 Niners (so glad I have the collection of those btw). Anyways, one portion of the DVD discusses the use of the quick slant and how lethal it was for the team that year. It flashes to highlights of Rice and Taylor burning through that middle seam of the field and I thought to myself, "This '09 team is perfectly suited to make use of such a weapon".

Think about it. Let's go with the idea that Hill starts (please no Smith vs. Hill comments). The knock on Hill is his arm strength. Nevertheless, we know that his strengths are smarts, quick decision-making/release, and QUICK, SHORT PASSES.

We all know that our WR corps. is the deepest it's possibly ever been. With the budding potential of WR's like Morgan and Crabtree, the quick slant could be just what we need to open up this passing game.

I've heard time and time again that we can't waste our WR's on a QB who can't throw the bomb. Yet, short passing (and the slant in particular) could be the ticket we need to develop a lethal passing game. Morgan, Bruce, Crabtree and the like could make quick tears to the middle and allow their pure athleticism to shine and make plays. I know Raye's offense varies greatly from the WCO. Still, I hope we utilize the quick slant because the gains could be tremendous. Thoughts and critiques are more than welcome.

Unfortunately, the word "slant" isn't in rayes vocabulary. The game plan is to run the ball 58-60x per
Game and pass maybe 1-2x. After all, that's what smash football is all about,eh? I'm sure raye has no idea what the slant even means. You will see no such thing.

I definitely agree with you, but did you watch any games last season? The quick slant was the one constant that both JTO and Hill did well all season. I would guess that I saw that play 2-3 times per game (sometimes more). If you're saying we should use it more, I agree as long as we don't become predictable.

Originally posted by brandonjg:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
Just finished watching America's Game DVD on the 1989 Niners (so glad I have the collection of those btw). Anyways, one portion of the DVD discusses the use of the quick slant and how lethal it was for the team that year. It flashes to highlights of Rice and Taylor burning through that middle seam of the field and I thought to myself, "This '09 team is perfectly suited to make use of such a weapon".

Think about it. Let's go with the idea that Hill starts (please no Smith vs. Hill comments). The knock on Hill is his arm strength. Nevertheless, we know that his strengths are smarts, quick decision-making/release, and QUICK, SHORT PASSES.

We all know that our WR corps. is the deepest it's possibly ever been. With the budding potential of WR's like Morgan and Crabtree, the quick slant could be just what we need to open up this passing game.

I've heard time and time again that we can't waste our WR's on a QB who can't throw the bomb. Yet, short passing (and the slant in particular) could be the ticket we need to develop a lethal passing game. Morgan, Bruce, Crabtree and the like could make quick tears to the middle and allow their pure athleticism to shine and make plays. I know Raye's offense varies greatly from the WCO. Still, I hope we utilize the quick slant because the gains could be tremendous. Thoughts and critiques are more than welcome.

Unfortunately, the word "slant" isn't in rayes vocabulary. The game plan is to run the ball 58-60x per
Game and pass maybe 1-2x. After all, that's what smash football is all about,eh? I'm sure raye has no idea what the slant even means. You will see no such thing.

I wonder, have you read any of the singetary's comments, the blogs by MM and Barrows? Where it's clearly said that a balanced attack is desired.

Originally posted by brandonjg:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
Just finished watching America's Game DVD on the 1989 Niners (so glad I have the collection of those btw). Anyways, one portion of the DVD discusses the use of the quick slant and how lethal it was for the team that year. It flashes to highlights of Rice and Taylor burning through that middle seam of the field and I thought to myself, "This '09 team is perfectly suited to make use of such a weapon".

Think about it. Let's go with the idea that Hill starts (please no Smith vs. Hill comments). The knock on Hill is his arm strength. Nevertheless, we know that his strengths are smarts, quick decision-making/release, and QUICK, SHORT PASSES.

We all know that our WR corps. is the deepest it's possibly ever been. With the budding potential of WR's like Morgan and Crabtree, the quick slant could be just what we need to open up this passing game.

I've heard time and time again that we can't waste our WR's on a QB who can't throw the bomb. Yet, short passing (and the slant in particular) could be the ticket we need to develop a lethal passing game. Morgan, Bruce, Crabtree and the like could make quick tears to the middle and allow their pure athleticism to shine and make plays. I know Raye's offense varies greatly from the WCO. Still, I hope we utilize the quick slant because the gains could be tremendous. Thoughts and critiques are more than welcome.

Unfortunately, the word "slant" isn't in rayes vocabulary. The game plan is to run the ball 58-60x per
Game and pass maybe 1-2x. After all, that's what smash football is all about,eh? I'm sure raye has no idea what the slant even means. You will see no such thing.

.....?

-9fA

Originally posted by Joecool:
We stopped running the quick slant because of the following reasons:

1. Brett Favre killed us with it and we have had nightmares ever since.

2. Jerry Rice got old.

3. TO doesn't catch the ball well.

4. Erickson didn't know what a quick slant was.

5. Nolan didn't know what offense or defense was.

6. Alex Smith is still a high school QB.

7. Shaun Hill...eh...correction, Hill can consistently throw an effective quick slant. When he starts, you will see it often.

Wow Joe, 26, 228 posts!

I was going to call you the Jerry Rice of posters, but then I looked up the stats...

Most Posts:
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2 kidash98 33247
3 jrg 32214
4 LA9erFan 32116
5 StOnEy333 31866
6 Brew 29683
7 49erWill 29182
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9 SybErkRimInAL 25731
10 49erfeeeever808 23487

...and you don't even make the top ten in posts per day.

Posts Per Day:
1 pantstickle 34.21
2 kidash98 26.56
3 StOnEy333 26.47
4 jrg 26.15
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8 Watchutalkinbout 20.63
9 teeohh 19.82
10 Dino 19.50

Originally posted by SanFranAddic:

Originally posted by Joecool:
We stopped running the quick slant because of the following reasons:

1. Brett Favre killed us with it and we have had nightmares ever since.

2. Jerry Rice got old.

3. TO doesn't catch the ball well.

4. Erickson didn't know what a quick slant was.

5. Nolan didn't know what offense or defense was.

6. Alex Smith is still a high school QB.

7. Shaun Hill...eh...correction, Hill can consistently throw an effective quick slant. When he starts, you will see it often.

Wow Joe, 26, 228 posts!

I was going to call you the Jerry Rice of posters, but then I looked up the stats...

Most Posts:
1 Rikimaru03 35944
2 kidash98 33247
3 jrg 32214
4 LA9erFan 32116
5 StOnEy333 31866
6 Brew 29683
7 49erWill 29182
8 Joecool 26228
9 SybErkRimInAL 25731
10 49erfeeeever808 23487

...and you don't even make the top ten in posts per day.

Posts Per Day:
1 pantstickle 34.21
2 kidash98 26.56
3 StOnEy333 26.47
4 jrg 26.15
5 luv49rs 22.04
6 LA9erFan 21.24
7 valrod33 21.11
8 Watchutalkinbout 20.63
9 teeohh 19.82
10 Dino 19.50

I think I was in the top 10 on PPD but I had my second son a month ago, so I haven't been at work to post on the zone...err...I mean to work.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SanFranAddic:

Originally posted by Joecool:
We stopped running the quick slant because of the following reasons:

1. Brett Favre killed us with it and we have had nightmares ever since.

2. Jerry Rice got old.

3. TO doesn't catch the ball well.

4. Erickson didn't know what a quick slant was.

5. Nolan didn't know what offense or defense was.

6. Alex Smith is still a high school QB.

7. Shaun Hill...eh...correction, Hill can consistently throw an effective quick slant. When he starts, you will see it often.

Wow Joe, 26, 228 posts!

I was going to call you the Jerry Rice of posters, but then I looked up the stats...

Most Posts:
1 Rikimaru03 35944
2 kidash98 33247
3 jrg 32214
4 LA9erFan 32116
5 StOnEy333 31866
6 Brew 29683
7 49erWill 29182
8 Joecool 26228
9 SybErkRimInAL 25731
10 49erfeeeever808 23487

...and you don't even make the top ten in posts per day.

Posts Per Day:
1 pantstickle 34.21
2 kidash98 26.56
3 StOnEy333 26.47
4 jrg 26.15
5 luv49rs 22.04
6 LA9erFan 21.24
7 valrod33 21.11
8 Watchutalkinbout 20.63
9 teeohh 19.82
10 Dino 19.50

I think I was in the top 10 on PPD but I had my second son a month ago, so I haven't been at work to post on the zone...err...I mean to work.

Congradulations joe, on your son! Lol is to be on that 2nd list as well ha ha.

Originally posted by brandonjg:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
Just finished watching America's Game DVD on the 1989 Niners (so glad I have the collection of those btw). Anyways, one portion of the DVD discusses the use of the quick slant and how lethal it was for the team that year. It flashes to highlights of Rice and Taylor burning through that middle seam of the field and I thought to myself, "This '09 team is perfectly suited to make use of such a weapon".

Think about it. Let's go with the idea that Hill starts (please no Smith vs. Hill comments). The knock on Hill is his arm strength. Nevertheless, we know that his strengths are smarts, quick decision-making/release, and QUICK, SHORT PASSES.

We all know that our WR corps. is the deepest it's possibly ever been. With the budding potential of WR's like Morgan and Crabtree, the quick slant could be just what we need to open up this passing game.

I've heard time and time again that we can't waste our WR's on a QB who can't throw the bomb. Yet, short passing (and the slant in particular) could be the ticket we need to develop a lethal passing game. Morgan, Bruce, Crabtree and the like could make quick tears to the middle and allow their pure athleticism to shine and make plays. I know Raye's offense varies greatly from the WCO. Still, I hope we utilize the quick slant because the gains could be tremendous. Thoughts and critiques are more than welcome.

Unfortunately, the word "slant" isn't in rayes vocabulary. The game plan is to run the ball 58-60x per
Game and pass maybe 1-2x. After all, that's what smash football is all about,eh? I'm sure raye has no idea what the slant even means. You will see no such thing.

You must be kidding. I hope you're kidding. Have you been watching NFL football very long? Have you ever seen ANY team run the ball 58-60 times a game? If you have, I'd like to hear about it. Last year, the Tennessee Titans, a "running team", ran the ball an average of 28 times a game and threw an average of 26 times a game.

One more time: Singletary and Raye want to run the ball WHEN THEY WANT TO. They want to be able to run the ball even when the opposition knows they're going to run the ball and still make first downs. In the real world, this means if the team is sitting on a 3-point lead with 8 minutes to go, Singletary and Raye want to be able to run out the clock. Is that so hard to understand?