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One more Alex Smith stat

ESPN just had a bit on about Vince Young, and how his future might be someplace other than Tennesee.

They showed a list of the bottom 5 passers in the NFL since 2006 (based on passer rating), and here's how it breaks down:

VY: 68.8
Derek Anderson: 75.2
Eli Manning: 78.9
Jon Kitna: 79.6
JP Losman: 79.6


I was surprised that Alex wasn't in that group, but the minimum games started to qualify was 25.

Alex only played in 23 games in that span, so he just missed the cut. Had he been eligible, he would have been at the top (bottom) of the pack.

His passer rating for that time period would be an even 66.0, easily the worst in the league.

And keep in mind this does NOT include his rookie numbers, which were even worse.

I know he's looking good in some practices so far, but these numbers scare me.
Meh... can't judge one player off of these numbers. Forget all the numbers from 05 and all of the numbers from games played post-injury. He put up better numbers than many notable QBs in their 2nd seasons (2006) and helped bring SF to 2-1 (2007) with Hostler as our OC. Numbers, Schmumbers...
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Meh... can't judge one player off of these numbers. Forget all the numbers from 05 and all of the numbers from games played post-injury. He put up better numbers than many notable QBs in their 2nd seasons (2006) and helped bring SF to 2-1 (2007) with Hostler as our OC. Numbers, Schmumbers...

Ya, I don't understand why people DON'T think Alex is good.

I mean, if you just throw out all the bad games he's had, all his mediocre games, interceptions, fumbles, incomplete passes and all generic brain farts, it's clear that he should be the starter.
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
ESPN just had a bit on about Vince Young, and how his future might be someplace other than Tennesee.

They showed a list of the bottom 5 passers in the NFL since 2006 (based on passer rating), and here's how it breaks down:

VY: 68.8
Derek Anderson: 75.2
Eli Manning: 78.9
Jon Kitna: 79.6
JP Losman: 79.6


I was surprised that Alex wasn't in that group, but the minimum games started to qualify was 25.

Alex only played in 23 games in that span, so he just missed the cut. Had he been eligible, he would have been at the top (bottom) of the pack.

His passer rating for that time period would be an even 66.0, easily the worst in the league.

And keep in mind this does NOT include his rookie numbers, which were even worse.

I know he's looking good in some practices so far, but these numbers scare me.

He sucks! He's a bust, and the only reason he is still on our squad is to try and make the GM seem like he didn't flop on a number 1 overall pick!

All of the talk about him looking great is all fine and dandy, lets see it in a real game situation. Until then he is just another BUST, even worst than that Ryan Leaf catagory because Leaf wasn't a #1 overall pick!
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
ESPN just had a bit on about Vince Young, and how his future might be someplace other than Tennesee.

They showed a list of the bottom 5 passers in the NFL since 2006 (based on passer rating), and here's how it breaks down:

VY: 68.8
Derek Anderson: 75.2
Eli Manning: 78.9
Jon Kitna: 79.6
JP Losman: 79.6


I was surprised that Alex wasn't in that group, but the minimum games started to qualify was 25.

Alex only played in 23 games in that span, so he just missed the cut. Had he been eligible, he would have been at the top (bottom) of the pack.

His passer rating for that time period would be an even 66.0, easily the worst in the league.

And keep in mind this does NOT include his rookie numbers, which were even worse.

I know he's looking good in some practices so far, but these numbers scare me.

He sucks! He's a bust, and the only reason he is still on our squad is to try and make the GM seem like he didn't flop on a number 1 overall pick!

All of the talk about him looking great is all fine and dandy, lets see it in a real game situation. Until then he is just another BUST, even worst than that Ryan Leaf catagory because Leaf wasn't a #1 overall pick!

yeah lets count when he was hurt huh! come on this stat is garbage. even if they counted 2 more games he would have been injured just like the last 4-5 he played. this stat is a waste of time.
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
ESPN just had a bit on about Vince Young, and how his future might be someplace other than Tennesee.

They showed a list of the bottom 5 passers in the NFL since 2006 (based on passer rating), and here's how it breaks down:

VY: 68.8
Derek Anderson: 75.2
Eli Manning: 78.9
Jon Kitna: 79.6
JP Losman: 79.6


I was surprised that Alex wasn't in that group, but the minimum games started to qualify was 25.

Alex only played in 23 games in that span, so he just missed the cut. Had he been eligible, he would have been at the top (bottom) of the pack.

His passer rating for that time period would be an even 66.0, easily the worst in the league.

And keep in mind this does NOT include his rookie numbers, which were even worse.

I know he's looking good in some practices so far, but these numbers scare me.

He sucks! He's a bust, and the only reason he is still on our squad is to try and make the GM seem like he didn't flop on a number 1 overall pick!

All of the talk about him looking great is all fine and dandy, lets see it in a real game situation. Until then he is just another BUST, even worst than that Ryan Leaf catagory because Leaf wasn't a #1 overall pick!

u

[ Edited by fan49 on Jun 26, 2009 at 11:18:36 ]
Originally posted by fan49:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
ESPN just had a bit on about Vince Young, and how his future might be someplace other than Tennesee.

They showed a list of the bottom 5 passers in the NFL since 2006 (based on passer rating), and here's how it breaks down:

VY: 68.8
Derek Anderson: 75.2
Eli Manning: 78.9
Jon Kitna: 79.6
JP Losman: 79.6


I was surprised that Alex wasn't in that group, but the minimum games started to qualify was 25.

Alex only played in 23 games in that span, so he just missed the cut. Had he been eligible, he would have been at the top (bottom) of the pack.

His passer rating for that time period would be an even 66.0, easily the worst in the league.

And keep in mind this does NOT include his rookie numbers, which were even worse.

I know he's looking good in some practices so far, but these numbers scare me.

He sucks! He's a bust, and the only reason he is still on our squad is to try and make the GM seem like he didn't flop on a number 1 overall pick!

All of the talk about him looking great is all fine and dandy, lets see it in a real game situation. Until then he is just another BUST, even worst than that Ryan Leaf catagory because Leaf wasn't a #1 overall pick!

you know how i know your gay...... you can't keep leaf or smith out of your mouth.

[ Edited by fan49 on Jun 26, 2009 at 11:18:17 ]
"Until then he is just another BUST, even worst than that Ryan Leaf catagory because Leaf wasn't a #1 overall pick!"

Oh please. That's really stretching. Leaf and Manning were both consensus number one picks. Half those watching predicted Manning and half predicted Leaf. Leaf got run off the team that drafted him for being a big a-hole and not producing. So, he is, by definition, a bust. Smith is still competing in good faith and still retained by the team that drafted him. So, he is, by definition, NOT a bust.
Originally posted by Apples:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Meh... can't judge one player off of these numbers. Forget all the numbers from 05 and all of the numbers from games played post-injury. He put up better numbers than many notable QBs in their 2nd seasons (2006) and helped bring SF to 2-1 (2007) with Hostler as our OC. Numbers, Schmumbers...

Ya, I don't understand why people DON'T think Alex is good.

I mean, if you just throw out all the bad games he's had, all his mediocre games, interceptions, fumbles, incomplete passes and all generic brain farts, it's clear that he should be the starter.

It's because some people are gonna hate on the kid regardless. It's just in their nature i guess. It's funny because if you compare eli's superbowl year and smith's 06 year. They are almost identical. Not to mention Eli had almost worse rating, but he's still looked at as a winning qb. I mean it's about the qb, and the talent around him that go hand in hand. And during eli's year, you didnt have to worry about the tons of drops from vd, and djack that year. Overall, the kid isn't a bust yet, and articles from both matts, espn, nfl network, all say he's not bust yet, and may still show sumthing. It's just some of the hating zoners, that are gonna hate no matter what.
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by Apples:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Meh... can't judge one player off of these numbers. Forget all the numbers from 05 and all of the numbers from games played post-injury. He put up better numbers than many notable QBs in their 2nd seasons (2006) and helped bring SF to 2-1 (2007) with Hostler as our OC. Numbers, Schmumbers...

Ya, I don't understand why people DON'T think Alex is good.

I mean, if you just throw out all the bad games he's had, all his mediocre games, interceptions, fumbles, incomplete passes and all generic brain farts, it's clear that he should be the starter.

It's because some people are gonna hate on the kid regardless. It's just in their nature i guess. It's funny because if you compare eli's superbowl year and smith's 06 year. They are almost identical. Not to mention Eli had almost worse rating, but he's still looked at as a winning qb. I mean it's about the qb, and the talent around him that go hand in hand. And during eli's year, you didnt have to worry about the tons of drops from vd, and djack that year. Overall, the kid isn't a bust yet, and articles from both matts, espn, nfl network, all say he's not bust yet, and may still show sumthing. It's just some of the hating zoners, that are gonna hate no matter what.

here are some interesting stats, as you alluded to...

Alex had a better 2nd year ( his only full year ) than Troy Aikman's 2nd year, and clearly, Aikman had a much better team and stability around him.

quick, look away, before the reality shames some of you

Alex Smith - 2006 ( year 2 )
16 games - 257/442 - 58.1% - 2,890 yds - 6.5 avr - 16 TD/16 INT - QBR - 74.8
-

Troy Aikman - 1990 ( year 2, and already 11 first year games played)
15 games - 226/399 - 56.6% - 2,579 yds - 6.5 avr - 11 TD/18 INT - QBR - 66.6
(consider that they had Mike Irvin, Emmitt Smith, Jay Novacek, and an OL consisting of Kevin Gogan, Nate Netwon, Stepnoski, Zimmerman, Tuinei, etc.)
-

Matt Hasselbeck - 2001 (sits for 2 years, year 3 in Seattle)
13 games - 176/321 - 54.8% - 2,023 ys - 6.3 avr. - 7 TD/8 INT - QBR - 70.9
-

Drew Brees - 2002 ( year 2 )
16 games - 320/526 - 60.8% - 3,284 ys - 6.2 avr. - 17 TD/16 INT - QBR - 76.9
-

Eli Manning - 2005 ( year 2 )
16 games - 294/557 - 52.8% - 3,762 yds - 6.8 avr - 24 TD/17 INT - QBR - 75.9
(oh by the way, Eli's 4th season numbers were worse)
-
Many thanks to Oldman9er for an inclusion of facts, not that many people around here will let them get in the way of a good argument.
Originally posted by Apples:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Meh... can't judge one player off of these numbers. Forget all the numbers from 05 and all of the numbers from games played post-injury. He put up better numbers than many notable QBs in their 2nd seasons (2006) and helped bring SF to 2-1 (2007) with Hostler as our OC. Numbers, Schmumbers...

Ya, I don't understand why people DON'T think Alex is good.

I mean, if you just throw out all the bad games he's had, all his mediocre games, interceptions, fumbles, incomplete passes and all generic brain farts, it's clear that he should be the starter.

You took the words right out of my mouth after i read his post. sidenote QB rating isn't the greatest indicator imo

[ Edited by lamontb on Jun 26, 2009 at 11:49:40 ]
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
Many thanks to Oldman9er for an inclusion of facts, not that many people around here will let them get in the way of a good argument.

Well, like any facts, they can be used on both side. For every player he listed, you can find many, many more, who had bad second year stats and contintue to show that they were not NFL QBs.

The rare exceptions that struggled early and righted the ship, have no more bearing on Alex's ability to do that than the ones who fail have to his ability to fail.

But the bottom line, is that he has been the worst starting QB during his tenure in the NFL. Although we have been far from great, it's hard to say we were the WORST team in the NFL at the time, so QBs in worse situations put up better numbers.

Certainly that could change, but what has happened is what has happened. There are no two ways around it. Whatever reasons, excuses, etc.. there are, we weren't the only team in the NFL to have issues and Alex wasn't the only QB with health or line problems.

Without including or excluding any information for any reason that favors one side or the other, the net result are some pretty damning numbers.

We can only hope he's in the small percentage of QBs who turn it around after that. It certainly isn't the norm.
Hey look, it's a derailed thread about Alex Smith!

These are the best kind anywhere on the internet.
Someone around here, not sure who, had suggested creating a separate forum just for Alex Smith topics.

I think it may be time to seriously consider that idea. It gets really old, the constant Alex bashing, that is.

Maybe the Chief Alex hater in charge, should just create a website devoted exclusively to bashing Alex.

There is nothing that can be said about Alex that hasn't already been said, over and over again. How do new Alex topics even get started in the first place? I think this one has escaped the notice of the mods, but not for long I suspect.